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Re: History of Prototype Freight Car Modeling

up4479
 


I think there were efforts to refine tooling earlier than IMWX,
Let's not forget the Ramax ACF two bay covered hopper kit. At the time it was a leap in the right direction.
Prior to the Pacific HO reefer there were others that started making kits of specific cars in wood like Ambroid. They and others (there were several) including Quality Craft made nice kits that took a lot of work to make the wood look like metal. They often included special metal castings and decent decals. The result was a model that was correct and different from the more generic stuff other manufacturers were offering. I've seen many builds over the years that look great.
If you go back through the magazines you will find many articles going back to the beginning of the hobby press where modelers made models using prototype info and writing articles on how to do it. Many modelers were inspired by these articles and attempted to model what they could find in photos and real life not being satisfied with the generic models being offered by manufactures. Kitbashing and scratch building became the path to authentic models in all scales and materials. Decal manufactures enabled these modelers early on by making decals from photos, company documents, etc.

The concept of making accurate models is very old. It goes back centuries. Over time, documentation of the prototypes, materials, techniques, available components and communications have all improved to enable better, more accurate models built by those that desire to model what was in real life.
Steve Solombrino


Santa Fe Bx-120 class box car

charles slater
 

I know this request is outside this list coverage, and for that I apologize. I am looking for a Pullman Co builders photograph of the Pullman Lot 9204-K-4 Santa Fe Bx-120 class 60 foot box car number 37560 for publication in a book for the Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society on "Modern Box Cars" for their rolling stock reference series of books. If anyone out there has this photo and is willing to submit it for publication please contact me.
Charlie Slater
atsfcondr42@hotmail.com
(661) 665-9692 H
(661) 342-0496 C


Re: History of Prototype Freight Car Modeling

Greg Martin
 

Doctor Fruit Growers ask:


The seminal styrene kit I think it could be argued was the "Innovative
Model Works" 1937 boxcar kit. When was this kit introduced. Does anyone have
any good stories about the development of this model by Jerry Porter they
can send me?

Can anyone furnish me with info about the beginnings of McKean, Front
Range, and C&BT, i.e. the people involved, initial offerings, and or course
nicely built up models.

Anecdotes about these pioneering styrene efforts and the people involved
would be appreciated.


Bill,

I think there were efforts to refine tooling earlier than IMWX, let us
not forget the effort of Pacific HO ( and I am looking at the instructions to
my NP kit ~still in parts~ and can't find a date) their Golden Spike Series
~Mechanical Reefer~ kit. But it has separate ladders and grabs, a good set
of drawings for the underframe and to think this tooling sits at Walthers
unused. This particular kit I bought cheap as it was started ~ never
finished ~ and an attempt was made to disassemble it and too think if the poor
SOB would have just FROZE the kit solid for a couple of weeks he could have
tapped the glue joints it would have fallen apart without damage, as the
glue lines just break nice and clean. I have tucked away more for JIT
inventory.

Then a bit further back there was the Kurtz Kraft 40-foot PS-1 and
although not state of the art now at the time (and in the time line) the kit was
well done. I can remember my first run in with the kit was the Jeff English
article in Mainline when he re-built the kit into a nicely done NYC
Central car, I believe that was in about 1991 IIRC. Kurtz Kraft predates the
Pacific HO kits.

In the evolution of things IIRC correctly along came Robins Rails with
their PS-1 50-foot boxcar. Then the two 65-foot mill gondolas and all the
article that attempted to refine the truck stub into a truck bolster. I know
for a fact the G-26 was a correct representation of the PRR car and the ATSF
version was well done (for the era) but the underframe was incorrect. I
still have ladder spruces left from when they offered those separately and
they are useful for some things, they're not as over-scaled as you might
remember if you have them without a thick layer of paint. Robins Rails became
Eastern Car Works and that is history.

It was about this time that I remember attending my first Railroad
Prototype Modelers meet in Fountain Valley, CA at a church on Newland Ave. There
was a fantastic "Buzz"... a fellow was running around with rubber molds of
an F unit nose ... a well spoken fellow was taking about some "detail kits"
to correct the errors in most of the Athearn freight car kits and a fellow
with a Southern California Citrus Grove vignette that captured a
signature of everything I remembered growing up near the Orange County Orange
Groves. I was on the track to more accurate modeling.

I seem to remember Mc Keen coming to market about this time and the
Prototype momentum billing. Then right behind Mc Keen was Front Range with kits
with a one piece body with separate parts like the Mc Keen kits.

Modelers like Mont Switzer, Richard Hendrickson, Jim Six, Wayne Sittner
(sp?) and others were now my mentors and wanted to produce more authentic
models that truly represented the era I wanted to model ~ the 1950's ~ Guys
were re detailing, kit~smashing old RTR models (like Roundhouse 'modern
boxcar' no running board 4~4 dreadnaught end cars into cars of my era... )
their work was truly inspiring.

Then it seem to me IMWX and C&BT Ships kits came along just as Front Range
was taking the dive... we (my close friends) attributed it to tooling of
too many ACF covered hoppers in too short of a period of time, i.e., not
allowing the older tooling pay for itself first. Seems to me just slightly
ahead of this was the emergence of GOULD~TICHY but their offerings were
limited and suddenly regardless of how nice the tooling the offering just
stopped. ACCURAIL came along somewhere in here picking up the Mc Keen and Front
Range dies, spinning one of the boxcar kits tools to Red Caboose IIRC.

Intermountain came along with there Long's Drugs Exclusive Santa Fe
Reefer. I would go to Longs as I only lived a few miles south and would walk in
on Saturday and check out the offerings on the chalk board to see which
paint scheme was next. They were taking reservations even then. In Southern
California in the early 90's Longs was the place to be. A well stocked, off
retail, hobby shop in a drugs store. Somewhere along about 1994 CB&T fell
away form the mainstream supporter (like due to the Reefer issues maybe) and
re-tooled the ladders and grabs back onto the boxcar and I remember
questioning Dick Swagger about that at the 1994 NMRA convention in Portland and not
getting a straight answer but reminding me that his cars had more accurate
doors than his competition ~ Front Range~ who was already a dying beast.

Then IMRC, RC, LL, Atlas, BLT as well as all the others were the fierce
competitors in the mid 90's and later.

The wave has been building and although the players have changed there are
certain companies that have just moved forward and they range from the
simplest kit builders like ACCURAIL to the expensive Run to Run highly
detailed and extremely accurate offerings from Kadee and others in that league.

I have yet to COMPLETE a single resin kit in all the years I have modeled
in this arena, and I can say I honestly have only a select handful (like
less than 15) resin kits that I will ever build but as my wife say you could
open your own hobby shop with what I own and will never build, luckily I
have two grandsons... 3^)

Greg Martin



Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean


Re: New PRR models from F&C (UNCLASSIFIED)

Clark Propst
 

Nah, I may do it Milwaukee. I think I have enough leftover Westerfield stock car decals to letter it.
Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, cepropst@... wrote:

I have that Westerfield kit (assembled and in service of course : ).
I have a Tichy undec single sheathed box car. Would it work for a Pennsy X26? If I change the doors? If so, are decals available?

Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "lnbill" <fgexbill@> wrote:

the F&C models represent rebuilds of the X26 with Hutchins roof and steel doors spliced from 4-ft doors harvested from X28's to replace the original wood doors?

Bill Welch


Re: New PRR models from F&C (UNCLASSIFIED)

Clark Propst
 

I have that Westerfield kit (assembled and in service of course : ).
I have a Tichy undec single sheathed box car. Would it work for a Pennsy X26? If I change the doors? If so, are decals available?

Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "lnbill" <fgexbill@...> wrote:

the F&C models represent rebuilds of the X26 with Hutchins roof and steel doors spliced from 4-ft doors harvested from X28's to replace the original wood doors?

Bill Welch


Re: Interesting Waybill Sticker

Charles Hostetler <cesicjh@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, richtownsend@... wrote:

I have a similar placard from the Colorado & Southern with similar reporting instructions, in big letters saying "TIME FREIGHT."


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


Hi Richard,

Can you tell about what year that might be from? I wonder if the placards and the waybill stickers came in pairs?

Thanks,

Charles Hostetler


Re: Tichy low side gondola

al_brown03
 

I'd hoped someone more knowledgeable than I would answer; but since no one has, let me try. (Cognoscenti: ready, aim, fire!)

Tichy make two low-side gons: the 52'6" War Emergency car and what's essentially a 40' flat-car with added wooden sides. The War Emergency car is well-documented (search the archives of this list); I take it Mr Hiser means the 40' car?

That's an Atlantic Coast Line car, originally built in 1917 as a flat car, and numbered in series 76000-76999. There's an article in MM 5/84 pp 61-63; see also MRG 5/00 p 27. Funny thing, though: the drawings in the MM article show the 76000 series (stencilled as class P-11-c), but the article has four photos. One is of a flatcar in the 75000 series (not 76000), and the others show gondolas or sorta-gondolas with side boards of varying heights, in the 68000 series.

Confused yet? Just wait: it gets worse.

The ORERs show pulpwood cars in series 75000-75514 (1/43, 156 cars; 1/53. 152 cars); flats in series 75518-75666 (1/43, 40 cars; 1/53, no cars); log cars in series 75669-75699 (1/43 and 1/53, 25 cars) and 75700-75884 (1/43, 185 cars; 1/53, 184 cars), and flats in series 76000-76999 (1/43, 870 cars; 1/53, 21 cars). The 1/43 ORER shows nothing in the 68000 series; the 1/53 ORER shows series 66431-68799 as "miscellaneous work equipment".

Another funny thing: ACL normally used sub-classes ("-c") to denote rebuilds. In this case, I'd have thought the flat was the original car. But that's a total WAG.

I've never seen a photo of a gondola in any of these series in revenue service. I therefore suspect (although others have better collections and libraries than mine) that the gondola modifications were made after removal from revenue service. The NEB&W website says the AC&Y, C&O, and D&RGW also had ten-pocket flats with straight side sills and fishbelly UFs. Whether any southwestern roads had flats of this type (presuming that D&RGW doesn't count), and whether *anyone* had a revenue gondola of this type, I don't know. My own copy of this kit will be built as a flat, probably an ACL car.

CONFESSION: I model the Seaboard Air Line. Therefore, any ACL fan true to the purple will tell you I don't know !@$%#$#%&%^&*$^(%. I agree! I invite corrections.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Hiser" <ehiser@...> wrote:

Hi group:
I am trying to determine the prototype and era of the Tichy low side gondola to determine if it presents modeling possibilities for a southwestern road. So far, I haven't been able to place it and couldn't find anything specific in the archives. Anyone familiar with this car?

Eric Hiser
Phoenix, AZ


Re: New PRR models from F&C (UNCLASSIFIED)

Al and Patricia Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Bill – That was one of the Westerfield models offered for many years. John Stewart loaned me the blueprints to do the doors. – Al Westerfield

From: lnbill
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 7:14 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: New PRR models from F&C (UNCLASSIFIED)


the F&C models represent rebuilds of the X26 with Hutchins roof and steel doors spliced from 4-ft doors harvested from X28's to replace the original wood doors?

Bill Welch

--- In mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com, "Dave Pfeiffer" <dave.pfeiffer@...> wrote:

Is there a reason for the release of a second resin X26. The new owner of
the Westerfield line should have them available again at some point. Were
there issues with the PRR version of the USRA car from Westerfield? Thanks.

Dave Pfeiffer


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gatwood, Elden SAW" <elden.j.gatwood@...>
To: <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 4:22 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] New PRR models from F&C (UNCLASSIFIED)


Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Bill;

We worked with Steve on both of these cars. We'll give a report on them
after the PRRT&HS Annual Meet next week, so you can get the details.

Elden Gatwood


Re: New PRR models from F&C (UNCLASSIFIED)

Al and Patricia Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Dave – Actually, as near as I could discover all other versions of the USRA SS box car, including F&C’s, Tichy’s and MicroTrains’ versions, had several dozen mistakes because they used the published plans which were re-drawn in Mainline Modeler. The cars were never built to the published plans. The Westerfield kit was built to actual railroad blueprints. Many persons have asked me why my car looked so different from the much more widely distributed Tichy and MicroTrains and the MM plans, assuming I had done something wrong. Ironic. If F&C has issued new masters then it may be accurate. - Al Westerfield

From: Dave Pfeiffer
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 5:54 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] New PRR models from F&C (UNCLASSIFIED)


Is there a reason for the release of a second resin X26. The new owner of
the Westerfield line should have them available again at some point. Were
there issues with the PRR version of the USRA car from Westerfield? Thanks.

Dave Pfeiffer

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gatwood, Elden SAW" <mailto:elden.j.gatwood%40usace.army.mil>
To: <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 4:22 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] New PRR models from F&C (UNCLASSIFIED)

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Bill;

We worked with Steve on both of these cars. We'll give a report on them
after the PRRT&HS Annual Meet next week, so you can get the details.

Elden Gatwood


Re: New PRR models from F&C (UNCLASSIFIED)

Bill Welch
 

the F&C models represent rebuilds of the X26 with Hutchins roof and steel doors spliced from 4-ft doors harvested from X28's to replace the original wood doors?

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Pfeiffer" <dave.pfeiffer@...> wrote:

Is there a reason for the release of a second resin X26. The new owner of
the Westerfield line should have them available again at some point. Were
there issues with the PRR version of the USRA car from Westerfield? Thanks.

Dave Pfeiffer


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gatwood, Elden SAW" <elden.j.gatwood@...>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 4:22 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] New PRR models from F&C (UNCLASSIFIED)


Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Bill;

We worked with Steve on both of these cars. We'll give a report on them
after the PRRT&HS Annual Meet next week, so you can get the details.

Elden Gatwood


Re: New PRR models from F&C (UNCLASSIFIED)

Dave Pfeiffer
 

Is there a reason for the release of a second resin X26. The new owner of the Westerfield line should have them available again at some point. Were there issues with the PRR version of the USRA car from Westerfield? Thanks.

Dave Pfeiffer

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gatwood, Elden SAW" <elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 4:22 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] New PRR models from F&C (UNCLASSIFIED)


Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Bill;

We worked with Steve on both of these cars. We'll give a report on them after the PRRT&HS Annual Meet next week, so you can get the details.

Elden Gatwood


Re: History of Prototype Freight Car Modeling

ed_mines
 

I think you are all forgetting about many earlier freight car models.

Remember the dollar car series in the '50s?

I remember one article in Model Railroader in the '50s where a man made a fleet of USRA hoppers using tin cans.

Almost every issue had a picture of some car scratch built to represent some prototype. Yes, locos, cabooses and passenger cars were more popular with scratch builders but there were still some freight car models being made.

Was it any wonder that both MR & RMC had scale plans of rolling stock in almost every issue. Both RMC & MR had plan books.

A lot of kits like Ambroid, Main Line and All Nation lent themselves to modification.

Remember Gene Deimling's Erie covered hopper article in MR in the late '70s? They don't get any better than that.

Ed Mines


Re: New PRR models from F&C (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Bill;

We worked with Steve on both of these cars. We'll give a report on them after the PRRT&HS Annual Meet next week, so you can get the details.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lnbill
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 2:21 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] New PRR models from F&C



F&C shows two new PRR models on their website.

Bill Welch





Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: Southern Car & Foundry tank car kit questions

Clark Propst
 

By gosh, Bill is right! There are couplers in that parts package! I just stopped construction at the instruction step saying to install 78 couplers, which 'I' didn't have.

When I build this SC&F kit I shouldn't need anymore tank cars. But, someone is always coming out with something new as a temptation...
Clark Propst


Re: Southern Car & Foundry tank car kit questions

Clark Propst
 

Thanks Sam, I had been meaning to contact you to see if you still had inventory, but the thread came up here first.
Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Andy Harman <gsgondola@...> wrote:

At 11:57 AM 5/11/2012 -0700, you wrote:
Upon special request we will sell the #78 coupler "only", no box, with
centering springs for #2.35 per pair plus shipping, directly from Kadee.


Re: Southern Car & Foundry tank car kit questions

Clark Propst
 

Probably, but the casted center pin is grooved for the 78 spring. I was figuring on buying a package of the 178s. But, I haven't found either in the hobby shops I've visited since I bought my last SC&F kit.
Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "joe binish" <binish6@...> wrote:

Clark, the #178 is the same box size as the #78, the coupler is one of the
whisker types. Would that fit?
joe binish
----- Original Message -----
From: <cepropst@...>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 12:40 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Southern Car & Foundry tank car kit questions


Their coupler pockets are design for a Kadee #78 couple. Which has been
discontinued. Anyone know of any still available?

Clark Propst





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: Southern Car & Foundry tank car kit questions

Andy Harman
 

At 11:57 AM 5/11/2012 -0700, you wrote:
Upon special request we will sell the #78 coupler "only", no box, with centering springs for #2.35 per pair plus shipping, directly from Kadee.
Excellent... the best run company in the MR business strikes again. Thanks Sam :-)

Andy


Re: Southern Car & Foundry tank car kit questions

Andy Harman
 

At 11:42 AM 5/11/2012 -0700, you wrote:
simpler to manufacture. I gathered that you can look for ALL Kadee
couplers, eventually, to be whisker type.
The only issue I see here is that the bronze spring provides some thickness and in some manufacturer's draft gear a whisker coupler may droop a little. But that's easily fixed with a shim, which is a lot easier than fixing the opposite problem. I encountered several cars from Athearn and BLI that did not have room for the ubiquitous bronze spring without binding, which was a pain to fix before the whiskers came along. I probably use whiskers now at an 8 to 1 preference over the bronze. I also stick with the large heads on longer cars - but I don't think those will be going away any time soon.

I also have another growing Athearn bluebox collection of clone couplers and springs including the Walthers #5 clone and bronze springs. Amazing how fast that box fills up... when it's full it goes on ebay like the last one. Got $12 I think.

Andy


Re: reweighing

Richard Hendrickson
 

On May 11, 2012, at 11:27 AM, timboconnor@comcast.net wrote:

All of which raises a question -- If a car's truck or trucks were
replaced (for
whatever reason) was the railroad required to reweigh the car
immediately?
What about other car parts (e.g. replacing a coupler with a newer
one?)
Reweighing was required any time a significant component - certainly
a truck, wheelset, coupler, power hand brake, etc. - was changed.
Restenciling was required if the weight changed by more than 300
lbs., which was only a small part of the total weight of (e.g.) a
wheelset or a coupler.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Southern Car & Foundry tank car kit questions

Andy Harman
 

At 06:19 PM 5/11/2012 +0000, you wrote:
Hum, the little bags that contain the photo etch fret and brass grab irons also has a pair of couplers in them.
Cool. So I just need to find 78s for my ~~10 unbuilt RYM kits.

Andy

83821 - 83840 of 192663