Date   

OEM -- was Re: More.....RPM

Dave Nelson
 

So lemme see if I got this right ... we're essentially the OEM mfgr of our
kids, right?

What's this got to do w/ freight cars of the steam era?

Dave Nelson


Re: More.....RPM

Tom Madden
 

Andy Harman wrote:

Ah but... Jon [Cagle] who IS an OEM in the literal definition, does not call
himself one.
I suspect, in the case Mike cited, that Jon considers himself a subcontractor. That is, he is providing specialty cast parts that are _not_ part of his own product line, to another party. Unless special arrangements are made, Jon wouldn't be able to add those parts to his line. This is different from Dennis' example.

Tom "just adding to the confusion" Madden


Re: More.....RPM

Andy Harman
 

At 11:12 AM 5/18/2012 -0400, you wrote:

I won't argue with the comment "...for the most part", but I will disagree
with the notion that "none" of the people that you can get on the phone in
North America are really OEM. Certainly I can get on the phone with Jon
Cagle of SC&F and Jon makes his own parts...even supplying the Shake N Take
with parts. Does he make all of his parts? No, but he certainly makes most.
Ah but... Jon who IS an OEM in the literal definition, does not call himself one. That is in a nutshell the problem with the term. It's not used as a self-description by entities that actually fit, and with annoying frequency but those that don't. And its use as a verb is baffling, and I suspect intentionally so - certainly it was a salesman obscuring the origin of his product who first said "We OEM it from them".

The musical instrument business has a slightly vague but ultimately more succinct term... "Stencil". Basically any rebadging of another manufacturer's product. For instance, I have a Wurlitzer C-melody saxophone. Wurlitzer didn't make saxophones, but historians call it a "Conn Stencil", which means it was made by Conn, but "stenciled" with the Wurlitzer name. It's fairly consistent in its usage - as is the similar term "rebadging". If you applied the OEM acronym to this example literally, it would describe the Conn company, and nothing else. Not the instrument, not Wurlitzer, not the dealership, not the process, not the contract, not the horse it rode in on.

At any rate, my point is, if you use the term OEM in a sentence I will ask you to explain and clarify it, every time. And I'm sure it will be another entry on my list, or at least a variant :-)

Andy


Re: More.....RPM

Andy Harman
 

At 03:03 PM 5/18/2012 +0000, you wrote:

In the model railroad industry, back in what is fast becoming the distant past, OEM, and "OEM pricing" was used to denote the components one manufacturer would supply to another for use in his kits. The pars were first rate parts, but with no additional work; bulk packed, often counted by weight, maybe not clipped if the parts required clipping from the runner.
Added to the list...

I can give one really glaring counter-example. In the mid 90s I bought wholesale computer components from an importer/warehouse operation to build PCs for my customers. Much of the stuff was generic but they offered a "Microsoft OEM Mouse". At the time Microsoft's ubiquitous "Dove bar" mouse was well above everybody else's in quality and price - Logitech's had all the grace of a sewing machine pedal. But the Microsoft Mouse had a sticker-shock price of $99 and a best street price of $69 or so. The $25 "OEM mouse" was supposed to be as you described, a "first rate part" without retail packaging, for me to bundle with the computer I was building.\. It had the same shape, but a slightly different finish and grossly inferior guts. There are probably still shards lurking under the floorboards of my old house where I spiked one into the kitchen floor - after spinning it around on its cord to build up speed. It was a piece of garbage.

As I said, it's a term used indiscriminantly since the 70s, and probably being used in the computer industry was the final nail in the coffin of meaningful definition - originally it probably did describe what Dennis is describing, although it's really a misnomer even in that context. In literal sense, OEM describes the entity who actually manufactures the part/product - not the product itself, the package, the process, the retailer, or any middleman. But that's taking the acronym literally, which nobody ever does.

Invariably when I bring up this topic, I get inundated with definitions which are quite clear to the definer, but of course all different from each other - thus proving my point. Terms change and evolve all the time, and I accept that - but sometimes they simply dissolve to the point they have no meaning. If somebody wants to do business with me and uses the term OEM, I have to ask them to explain WTF it means in their context, and it never refers to the entity that is the "original equipment manufacturer". So I gotta call BS.

Andy


Re: More.....RPM

Mikebrock
 

Dennis Storzek writes:

"All that's changed, for the most part, because none of the people you can get on the phone in North America are really the OEM any longer; they are all importers that have goods manufactured under contract elsewhere."

I won't argue with the comment "...for the most part", but I will disagree with the notion that "none" of the people that you can get on the phone in North America are really OEM. Certainly I can get on the phone with Jon Cagle of SC&F and Jon makes his own parts...even supplying the Shake N Take with parts. Does he make all of his parts? No, but he certainly makes most.

Mike Brock


Re: More.....RPM

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Andy Harman <gsgondola@...> wrote:

At 08:16 AM 5/17/2012 -0700, you wrote:
Original Equipment Manufacturer.
As I said, I know what the acronym stands for.

So if you bought an OEM part, it was intended for sale to someone who
would package (and possibly more importantly _support_) it as part of a
larger item. The idea being that you were getting the same quality part,
just without the fancy packaging, possibly all the documentation, and the
level of markup of the same part sold as retail.
That's your definition. I'll add it to the list :-)

Andy

In the model railroad industry, back in what is fast becoming the distant past, OEM, and "OEM pricing" was used to denote the components one manufacturer would supply to another for use in his kits. The pars were first rate parts, but with no additional work; bulk packed, often counted by weight, maybe not clipped if the parts required clipping from the runner. The price was expected to be wholesale, with most of the profit wrung out, to allow the final manufacturer to make the profit on his product. It was also understood that parts sold at this price were not to be packaged and sold as parts in competition with the OEM's own parts line.

All that's changed, for the most part, because none of the people you can get on the phone in North America are really the OEM any longer; they are all importers that have goods manufactured under contract elsewhere.

Dennis


Re: More.....RPM

Andy Harman
 

At 08:16 AM 5/17/2012 -0700, you wrote:
Original Equipment Manufacturer.
As I said, I know what the acronym stands for.

So if you bought an OEM part, it was intended for sale to someone who would package (and possibly more importantly _support_) it as part of a larger item. The idea being that you were getting the same quality part, just without the fancy packaging, possibly all the documentation, and the level of markup of the same part sold as retail.
That's your definition. I'll add it to the list :-)

Andy


Re: freight train operation, GN & WP

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Allen Rueter wrote:
Tony, no freight car content so...
Richard's book only shows WP mallet & FTs, all steam on the GN side in '47.

But on the other hand,
Was there an interchange point on PFE traffic between SP &WP? I figure SP had a lock into Portland,
worked with either UP or NP into Seattle/Spokane but with competition from WP+GN.
Allen, I don't think there was a specific "interchange point" between SP and WP for PFE traffic, although I would expect a lot of interchange at Sacramento. Most routings were chosen by shippers, but if local agents had a say, obviously an SP agent would try and route the shipment over the SP to Portland, while a WP agent would try and get it routed up the Inside Gateway via WP and GN. It is true that WP's traffic between California and Oregon was barely 10 percent of SP's traffic, and as you say, SP had a friendly relation with NP and a neutral relation with UP in Portland, so routings via GN would have been a minority, if routings were influenced by SP agents. Overall, WP perishable carloadings were a small fraction of either SP or Santa Fe, so I believe those PFE (and SFRD) loaded cars moving through Bieber were largely NOT loaded on WP.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: More.....RPM

Jeff Shultz <jeff@...>
 

Original Equipment Manufacturer. So if you bought an OEM part, it was intended for sale to someone who would package (and possibly more importantly _support_) it as part of a larger item. The idea being that you were getting the same quality part, just without the fancy packaging, possibly all the documentation, and the level of markup of the same part sold as retail.
--
Jeff Shultz
www.shultzinfosystems.com

Andy Harman <gsgondola@...> wrote:

At 03:29 PM 5/15/2012 -0500, you wrote:
I remember a discussion about case hardened tools that occurred back around
1965 between my father and one of my friends who was just about finished
with his tool and die apprenticeship. The problem was they were both talking
different eras with dad's experience going back to WWII and beyond.
My pet peeve is the term OEM. My eyes glaze over when I hear it. I know
what the acronym stands for, but the term OEM is used to mean actual
manufacturer (as in, factory), the brand who rebadges it, the middle man
between the two, the dealer, a description of an inferior version of name
brand product ("Microsoft OEM mouse"), or even a verb ("we OEM it to
them"). Thus "We are the OEM" is utterly meaningless without
clarification. I first discovered this when the company I worked for
became an OEM for Texas Instruments. Which meant that we were a *dealer*,
not a manufacturer, according to their terminology. All downhill from
there... based on how I've seen that term used, the Chinese factory,
Athearn, Horizon, my local hobby shop, and perhaps even the shipping
company could end up being badged an OEM. Which makes the UPS driver an
"OEMmer".... too many terms have lost their original meaning or have
become generic. Like "modem" for "any box between my computer and a comm
line".... and the term "digital modem" is an oxymoron.

Andy


Re: More.....RPM

Andy Harman
 

At 03:29 PM 5/15/2012 -0500, you wrote:
I remember a discussion about case hardened tools that occurred back around
1965 between my father and one of my friends who was just about finished
with his tool and die apprenticeship. The problem was they were both talking
different eras with dad's experience going back to WWII and beyond.
My pet peeve is the term OEM. My eyes glaze over when I hear it. I know what the acronym stands for, but the term OEM is used to mean actual manufacturer (as in, factory), the brand who rebadges it, the middle man between the two, the dealer, a description of an inferior version of name brand product ("Microsoft OEM mouse"), or even a verb ("we OEM it to them"). Thus "We are the OEM" is utterly meaningless without clarification. I first discovered this when the company I worked for became an OEM for Texas Instruments. Which meant that we were a *dealer*, not a manufacturer, according to their terminology. All downhill from there... based on how I've seen that term used, the Chinese factory, Athearn, Horizon, my local hobby shop, and perhaps even the shipping company could end up being badged an OEM. Which makes the UPS driver an "OEMmer".... too many terms have lost their original meaning or have become generic. Like "modem" for "any box between my computer and a comm line".... and the term "digital modem" is an oxymoron.

Andy


Baltimore & Ohio RR Historical Society Miniconvention

ffl24cfd
 

Just an update for the B&ORHS Ohio Minicon, Saturday, May 19 in
Lexington, OH at the Senior Center which is the former B&O station. We will have
a full day of B&O starting at 8:00 AM with Lexington native Bob Carter talking
and showing slides about the B&O history in town. B&O freight car guru Bob Witt
will present early 20th century B&O coal cars, Ralph Barger will give us his
research about B&O passenger Cafe/Lounge cars, Mark Morgan will show his efforts
to build a correct M55c box car in HO scale as well as tell about his employer
AK Steel's use of rail shipping. Ed Young will visually take us west from
Cincinnati on the St. Louis Main, Joe Slanser will show slides of the B&O in
Northern Ohio during the 50-60's,and Alex Campbell will present movies taken in
the 1950's at Benwood Junction, WV with steam and diesels. The Company Store
will be offering a wide range of B&O material. I encourage anybody with a B&O
modeling project in progress or completed to bring it along for show and tell.
Tables are available for display. The coffee will be warm and the donuts fresh!
After the presentations, we are invited to view operations of the Bucyrus Model
Railroad Club which will take about a 30 minute road trip. We will ask to see
who would like to car pool. Maps and directions will be available. Here is the
link to the flyer with directions
<http://www.borhs.org/Events/flyers/2012WestMiniConLexington.pdf>
Come out and spend the day with fellow B&O afficianados and get a great dose of
B&O! Any questions, please email me off list. I hope to see you on Saturday!
John Howard


Re: freight train operation, GN & WP

Allen Rueter
 

Tony, no freight car content so...
Richard's book only shows WP mallet & FTs, all steam on the GN side in '47.

But on the other hand,

Was there an interchange point on PFE traffic between SP &WP?
I figure SP had a lock into Portland,

worked with either UP or NP into Seattle/Spokane but with competition
from WP+GN.

 
--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO


________________________________
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 12:59 AM
Subject: [STMFC] freight train operation, GN & WP


 
I've been studying the 1953 Bieber interchange book I have, and
I get the impression that both GN and WP were operating freights as
extras by locomotive number at that time. Can anyone confirm or refute
that conclusion? Any help appreciated.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Lindberg HO Scale Refrigerator Car

StephenK
 

For some more info and some additional photos, go here:
http://ho-scaletrains.net/id34.html


Steve Kay

--- In STMFC@..., "Bob C" <thecitrusbelt@...> wrote:




Lindberg once produced a line of HO locomotives and cars in the 1950s
and 1960s which included a refrigerator car. This link show several
offerings from that line and the refrigerator car is among several in
the image:

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r132/tonycook1966/Lindberg/02_Lindber\;
g.jpg
<http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r132/tonycook1966/Lindberg/02_Lindbe\;
rg.jpg>

Was there any prototype basis for this car, or any other Lindberg cars
for that matter?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: freight train operation, GN & WP

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dave Nelson wrote:
Dunno about the GN but I know but in the 40's the WP did have timetable scheduled freights on the highline. I don't recall the train numbers offhand but on the 3rd sub it was 53/54, 61/62, 77/78 and I think 93/94 which I think was every other day, Oroville to Keddie (95/96 would have been Portola to Keddie). Numbered freights on the 4th sub had 100 added to its corresponding train on the 3rd. Racking my brain what comes to mind is 153/154 and 177/178 but I couldn't say for sure.
I should say more about the reasons for my question. The Bieber interchange book shows the date of a car's arrival/departure, and an indication of what train. There is a consistent set of 915-923 numbers in one direction, which could well be WP's F7 power, and in the other direction, 600s (GP7s and 9s) and 2000s (the big 2-8-8-0 power GN did use on the line down from Bend). But I asked the question to forestall the possibility that one or both of these sets of numbers were coincidentally also locomotive numbers. On the WP side, at least, this would not appear to be a possibility.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


ADMIN: Re: BACK UP!

Mikebrock
 

Dave Unknown, writes"

"Jerry,

I just received my combo door car side castings from Chad today so I will place a decal order and get a check off to you first thing tomorrow. Here is my order:

6 sets CB&Q combo door car decals @ $5.00 each $30.00
3 sets GN Empire Builder combo door cars sets @ $5.00 each $15.00
1 set GN Original (slanted) decals for the 40' combo door car @ $5.00 each $ 5.00
Shipping $ 0.50

Total $50.50

What do you expect will be the turn around time on receipt of check and mailing of decals?

Were you able to work out anything with the NPRHA Store regarding their stocking of the two NP decal sets?

Later, Dave"

An interesting message and I send it to the group so the members will see how NOT to reply to a selling message.

First...it should NEVER be to the entire group. It is not overly difficult to remove the STMFC address and substitute the real address for the message. Even I can do it. The over 1800 members have no interest in what Dave is ordering. Violations of this rule will result in more restrictions on selling messages.

Second, STMFC rules require both first and last names.

Mike Brock...I can remember my last name too and if I can, anyone can...
STMFC Owner


Re: BACK UP!

jerryglow2
 

I have some for the Q car too if you need...

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., "sartherdj@..." <sartherdj@...> wrote:


Jerry,

I just received my combo door car side castings from Chad today so I will place a decal order and get a check off to you first thing tomorrow. Here is my order:

6 sets CB&Q combo door car decals @ $5.00 each $30.00
3 sets GN Empire Builder combo door cars sets @ $5.00 each $15.00
1 set GN Original (slanted) decals for the 40' combo door car @ $5.00 each $ 5.00
Shipping $ 0.50

Total $50.50

What do you expect will be the turn around time on receipt of check and mailing of decals?

Were you able to work out anything with the NPRHA Store regarding their stocking of the two NP decal sets?

Later, Dave



-----Original Message-----
From: Gerald Glow <jerryglow@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wed, May 16, 2012 1:51 pm
Subject: [STMFC] BACK UP!




I just got a big back order from the print shop, them having fixed the
problem. It will take me some time to sort thru it all and get pending
orders filled and I am resuming taking new orders now that things are
back up. I can't mention new items until Friday but if you look closely,
you'll see a few - hint Hill roads among others.

REMINDER: remember to refresh your browser to get the original home page
instead of the one with the notices.

--
Jerry Glow
The Villages FL
http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/decals

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: freight train operation, GN & WP

Dave Nelson
 

Dunno about the GN but I know but in the 40's the WP did have timetable
scheduled freights on the highline. I don't recall the train numbers
offhand but on the 3rd sub it was 53/54, 61/62, 77/78 and I think 93/94
which I think was every other day, Oroville to Keddie (95/96 would have been
Portola to Keddie). Numbered freights on the 4th sub had 100 added to its
corresponding train on the 3rd. Racking my brain what comes to mind is
153/154 and 177/178 but I couldn't say for sure.

Dave Nelson

-----Original Message-----

I've been studying the 1953 Bieber interchange book I have, and I get
the impression that both GN and WP were operating freights as extras by
locomotive number at that time. Can anyone confirm or refute that
conclusion? Any help appreciated.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA


Re: BACK UP!

Dave Sarther
 

Jerry,

I just received my combo door car side castings from Chad today so I will place a decal order and get a check off to you first thing tomorrow. Here is my order:

6 sets CB&Q combo door car decals @ $5.00 each $30.00
3 sets GN Empire Builder combo door cars sets @ $5.00 each $15.00
1 set GN Original (slanted) decals for the 40' combo door car @ $5.00 each $ 5.00
Shipping $ 0.50

Total $50.50

What do you expect will be the turn around time on receipt of check and mailing of decals?

Were you able to work out anything with the NPRHA Store regarding their stocking of the two NP decal sets?

Later, Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Gerald Glow <jerryglow@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wed, May 16, 2012 1:51 pm
Subject: [STMFC] BACK UP!




I just got a big back order from the print shop, them having fixed the
problem. It will take me some time to sort thru it all and get pending
orders filled and I am resuming taking new orders now that things are
back up. I can't mention new items until Friday but if you look closely,
you'll see a few - hint Hill roads among others.

REMINDER: remember to refresh your browser to get the original home page
instead of the one with the notices.

--
Jerry Glow
The Villages FL
http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/decals

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


BACK UP!

jerryglow2
 

I just got a big back order from the print shop, them having fixed the
problem. It will take me some time to sort thru it all and get pending
orders filled and I am resuming taking new orders now that things are
back up. I can't mention new items until Friday but if you look closely,
you'll see a few - hint Hill roads among others.

REMINDER: remember to refresh your browser to get the original home page
instead of the one with the notices.

--
Jerry Glow
The Villages FL
http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/decals


Re: freight train operation, GN & WP

Tim O'Connor
 

It's a good question for the GN list Tony.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Thompson" <thompson@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 1:46:04 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: freight train operation, GN & WP

Jim Betz wrote:
It does not surprise me that the GN trains into Bieber were run as
extras. But the GN definitely was still running numbered freights
into the 60's - on other parts of the system. Such as over the
Cascades and the rest of the GN mainline between the Twin Cities and
Seattle.
Thanks, Jim. By "numbered freights" I'm assuming you mean
timetable-scheduled freights. I hope someone will be able to confirm
the extras on the basis of specific knowledge.

Tony Thompson

87881 - 87900 of 196861