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Re: A C&BT Shops Fe-26 lives...finally
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Charles Hostetler wrote:
Actually, I'm trying to learn about the "Stop this Car" portion of a waybill, and I was wondering if anyone might comment on whether this feature was commonly used or if it was more of an oddball/oddity/special case. I'm trying to decide whether to incorporate that section in my model waybill form, but unless it was a real staple of prototype operations I think I'd prefer to keep it simple.My understanding is that it was not common, but certainly was used. I have included it in the waybills I designed for Otis McGee's layout, and examples are shown in several of my blog posts. Here's one: http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2011/08/waybills-11.html although the waybills shown on the post don't have the "Stop At" sections in use. We do have a few (less than a dozen) waybills which use the "Stop At" in action on Otis's layout, out of a couple hundred waybills, so there aren't TOO many of them. In fact, that creates a problem sometimes, because crews forget to consult that part of the bill when switching. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com Publishers of books on railroad history
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machine screws
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Was in a hobby shop the other day and saw one of those racks with cute little bags of machine screws, costing several bucks for 8 screws (I won't mention the name of the packager, but many will know who I mean). It reminded me that you can buy them at $2.50 for 100 screws, in all the right model railroad sizes and lengths, from Micro Fasteners (www.microfasteners.com). I have no affiliation with or stake in them, I just buy from them on-line. I'm all for supporting the LHS, but not to this extent.
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: A C&BT Shops Fe-26 lives...finally
Charles Hostetler <cesicjh@...>
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Brock" <brockm@...> wrote:
I hope I don't ever have to use a "get out of jail free" card, but my guess is 110 per side, for a total of 220. Close? As to the question mark, I sorted through my "archives" and found the original waybill commemorating the event - it was really in Buford to drop off a Harley for the station agent: http://cnwmodeling.blogspot.com/2012/07/atsf-64200-64699.html Actually, I'm trying to learn about the "Stop this Car" portion of a waybill, and I was wondering if anyone might comment on whether this feature was commonly used or if it was more of an oddball/oddity/special case. I'm trying to decide whether to incorporate that section in my model waybill form, but unless it was a real staple of prototype operations I think I'd prefer to keep it simple. Thanks and Regards, Charles Hostetler
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Re: New format?
Tom Houle <thoule@...>
Did I miss something. What changed?
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Tom Houle
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George R. Stilwell, Jr. Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 4:44 PM To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Subject: [STMFC] Re: New format? You must enjoy scanning down to see what's there and reading "mice-type" descriptions of the content. I don't!!!!!!!!!!!!!! George ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links
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Re: New format?
George R. Stilwell, Jr. <GRSJr@...>
You must enjoy scanning down to see what's there and reading "mice-type" descriptions of the content.
I don't!!!!!!!!!!!!!! George
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Re: Lumber Loads on Flat Cars and in Box Cars
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Jim Dick wrote:
In addition, regarding boxcar lumber loading, I have seen plenty and plenty more documentation on boxcar shortages and concerns. And many internal telegrams from NP traffic agents stating "if XYZ mill (in Oregon) cannot get more boxcars they will shut down for several days." This culminated into concerns - complaints from shippers - to letters from the Oregon Governers office - to where the SP was hauled before a congressional inquiry as to boxcar shortages. Several western railroads were in conference among themselves with the SP, before the SP testified.This is certainly true, and in the early 1950s SP issued "equipment instructions" letters to yard clerks, agents and conductors to specify that 50-foot box cars, of ANY ownership, were to be moved to Eugene, Oregon for lumber loading unless in assigned service. SP was trying to fill the needs with both company and foreign cars, but as Jim describes, had a hard time meeting demand. This is worth pointing out to those modelers who assume that all lumber loads were on flat cars. My impression for the SP is that box car and flat car loadings were similar in number. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: USRA 40-ton Boxcars rebuilt as FGE Refrigerator Cars?!
Bill Welch
I plan on publishing it.
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Bill Welch
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "bill_d_goat" <billdgoat@...> wrote:
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Re: USRA 40-ton Boxcars rebuilt as FGE Refrigerator Cars?!
bill_d_goat
Very interesting. i thought I'd check on the possible publicatiuon of your FGE/WFE/BRE book.
Bill Williams
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USRA 40-ton Boxcars rebuilt as FGE Refrigerator Cars?!
Bill Welch
On page 97 of "The Postwar Freight Car Fleet" there is a photo of
FGEX 10857--a rebuild--that was part of the FGEX 10850-10999 series (140 cars). The FGE Company information I have regarding rebuild dates is in conflict. One source says 1932 and the other says 1937. The side sheathing consists of two horizontal riveted panels on each side of the doors, the top panel is roughly twice the size of the bottom panel, a style replicated by FGEX 52680-52779, a group of 100 steel rebuilds on ex-PRR R7 reefer u/f's, and two series of new cars built by FGE in 1939-40, FDEX 9250-9299 (50 cars) and FGEX 52780-52999 (5 cars) that are very similar to steel cars built by PFE and ART as well as WFE (50 cars) and BRE (270 cars) before WWII. The rebuilds have the Hutchins roof common on FGE/WFE/BRE System cars as replacements. What fascinates and confounds me is understanding the heritage of these cars. Although I have no proof, given their combination of 5/5/5 Murphy ends, fishbelly u/f, and Andrews trucks, I believe these cars may have originally been USRA DS 40-ton boxcars. One possible weak link in my speculation are the trucks, since obviously these were used under many cars unrelated to the USRA usage. However Andrews trucks were very rare for FGE. In fact this is only group I am aware of equipped with Andrews owned by FGE. Within the FGE/WFE/ BRE System, Burlington Refrigerator did use Andrews. I know of no usage of this type by WFE. FGE however was a thrifty company and it makes since to me they would not have replaced a perfectly good truck if it was not necessary so I think that ends, underframes and trucks all came on the original cars, wherever they came from and whatever their source. It would strengthen my argument if I could identify a plausible Railroad source for these 140 rebuilds but in going through the various articles and most recently the RP CYC articles and tables, I cannot seem to find a possible source. I have long thought the 5/5/5 Murphy end was unique to the USRA boxcars but maybe not, meaning perhaps other possible sources for these rebuilds. I thought I would see if anyone on this list has a good scenario for the origins of these cars? Maybe I have overlooked an owner of USRA DS cars who disposed of 140 cars sometime in the early or mid 1930's. Bill Welch 2225 Nursery Road; #20-104 Clearwater, FL 33764-7622 727-470-9930 fgexbill@tampabay.rr.com
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Re: Lumber Loads on Flat Cars and in Box Cars
gettheredesigns <rick@...>
Hello all,
Random length lumber was (and still is) more common than many people realize. Softwood tongue&groove and shiplap used for subfloors and sheathing roofs and walls in old houses was often random length. And it wasn't always truly random; often it was trimmed to even lengths in 2' increments, 6-16' long, sold by the foot as mixed lots. To the present day large lots of finished hardwood T&G flooring are sold as mixed random lengths. Lumber grading plays a part--a 6' clear board is worth more than an 8' board with a big knot in one end. Peace, Rick Aylsworth
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Re: GAC Pfaulder Milk Reefers in freight service
Don <riverman_vt@...>
By "growlythings" I presume you mean those rolling smudge pots at the head of the train. In any event, while I could not open the photo yesterday this morning it was done. Unfortunately the angle of view on the GPEX car prevents me from offering anymore than was posted uyesterday about who might have leased it. With a large file of GPEX car photos here for reference, certainly not just limited to New England, I cannot find any with an emblem that could be mistaken for what is seen on the forward end of the GPEX car in the photo. My best guess, however, is that it is either an empty being returned to Florida, occasionally with both tanks full of good New England drinking water, or a load of oragen juice concentrate heading north.
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Sorry I can't offer more, Don Valentine
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "al_brown03" <abrown@...> wrote:
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Re: Lumber Loads on Flat Cars and in Box Cars
np328
Regarding this conversation:
I cannot also help but think that there was -so much- lumber coming out of Oregon that no matter which side you tend to favor, there was plenty of board feet of timber to support you. This massive amount of lumber traffic would have been supported by housing for GI's coming home from WWII, then the Korean Conflict, then large stimulus spending to stave off an economic turndown by the then Republican administration. Some things to add to this topic: I have never in my research, seen evidence of flat car shortages out west in any documentation. However as Aaron Gjermundson stated earlier, I have seen quite a bit of photo documentation of lumber on flats and gons and I do believe that on the NP, much rough lumber came east on flats and gons and enough so that they could annex this to a separate train as I had posted prior. In largely this same time frame of through the 1950's, the SP and NP had agreements where if the NP provided an empty boxcar via the Portland gateway, the SP agreed to return the load east via the same gateway, routing east via the NP. I do believe that Guy Wilbur's documentation of wrapped lumber is solid however once it is in a boxcar, one concern is that unless you have a waybill of a boxcars load, it is impossible to see inside from a photo, on the other hand a flat car full of lumber is as plain as day as to what it is hauling. In addition, regarding boxcar lumber loading, I have seen plenty and plenty more documentation on boxcar shortages and concerns. And many internal telegrams from NP traffic agents stating "if XYZ mill (in Oregon) cannot get more boxcars they will shut down for several days." This culminated into concerns - complaints from shippers - to letters from the Oregon Governers office - to where the SP was hauled before a congressional inquiry as to boxcar shortages. Several western railroads were in conference among themselves with the SP, before the SP testified. Jim Dick - St. Paul
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Re: Advice Regarding Best Adhesives
frograbbit602
Contact cements have been suggested. I have not seen or missed it mentioned that contact cements come in two types: solvent base such as Walthers Goo, Piobond, etc. and water base. I have purchased the water base types at wookworking stores. For metal to wood I would use a contact type. For styrene to metal I would use the water base type. Not the solvent type as the solvent types normally contain acetone which attacks sytrene.
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Transfer tape was suggested. As for a good model transfer adhesive I suggest 3M 565 tape which is available at art stores. I use it to attach paper items, such shingles to styrene, all the time. As another person stated the beauty of the transfer tape is there is no warpping. Lester Breuer
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "DaveS" <sartherdj@...> wrote:
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Re: Lumber Loads on Flat Cars and in Box Cars
Greg Martin
People please,
Understand this that the softwood sawmills wouldn't then and don't now wrap green (not kiln dried or air dried) lumber. So it is very possible to see wrapped and unwrapped lumber on a rail car end during the 50's, it may not be that common but it did happen. Not all lumber was kiln dried and not all builders required or even requested kiln dried lumber (or Air Dried). Lumber that was kiln dried was what the industry called "patterns and uppers" which was use for moldings, trim, paneling, flooring, industrials (worked parts for windows, and the like) and exterior siding in our era. Not that dried lumber wasn't used in framing but you have to remember that in the during process the wood shrinks... Green lumber was used as framing lumber, and during the first have of the 20th Century typical framing was called "balloon framing" different than the standards that buildings are built to now. Green lumber was never and issue expect for unseasoned Lodge Pole Pine, Southern Yellow Pine and Eastern Spruce_Pine_Fir, most old timers would tell you that these species, not properly dried, would tun into spaghetti and so they were dried, but once dried what dimension should they match, their own, full sawn like the green stock coming in from the west? So as an industry, collectively the ALS (American Lumber Standards) was formed and grading rules were standardized for all industries. No more "house grades" or "home grades". In the last ten years the green lumber vestiges such as West Coast, Arizona, Nevada, OK, MO, DE, NJ, NY, and the New England states all began to move away from green lumber in favor of Kiln Dried but not entirely. So when I think of lumber moving in boxcars I think of a time line not a species or "finish" issue. Regardless of finish or pattern (Hill and Dale) 6-foot fence stock would not likely ever ship on a flat car or a gondola for example. I think in available car types, value of the load, the ease of loading. As labor cost began to rise in the post WW 2 era you have to think of why you would hand stack a carload when you can but a Gerlinger straddle buggy to move the stock from the sawmill to the kilns then on to the planner or from the sawmill to the planner, and load the car with the new 6k Towmotor (for boxcars) or 10K Gerlinger forklift for (flat cars or other car types) you just bought that will eliminate the work of three men in hand stacking box cars or three guys with a crane. One man perhaps two (union rules when I was young said one driver one sticker man). Hull Oaks here in Oregon still employees young backs to pull the green chain to sort the lumber, but they use a Gerlinger Straddle buggy to move it around the mill and to the loading bays, albeit they don't load rail cars at the mill any longer. Greg Martin Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it. Norman Maclean ron.merrick@fluor.com writes: "I have photos from ten years in the future, referenced from the cutoff date of this list, showing dimensional lumber loosely stacked on flatcars, and one case of a mixed wrapped and non-wrapped load, so wrapped bundles did take a long time to take over the market. Ron Merrick"
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Re: GAC Pfaulder Milk Reefers in freight service
Charlie Vlk
Rick,
Thanks. Probably would be a good idea for posters to cite the full chapter and verse as a photo put into the files section doesn't show up as a new photo with group emails and without the name of the file and the section it is in it can be tedious looking for it....although you might run across something else even more interesting that you didn't know was there! Thanks Charlie Vlk Charlie, It is in the file section in the second alpabetical section. Rick Dietrichson
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Re: Lumber Loads on Flat Cars and in Box Cars
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Richard Hendrickson wrote:
As usual, Guy has lots of documentation, so I stand corrected (at least partly). I would still maintain that large-scale shipment of plastic-wrapped packaged lumber was largely a '60s phenomenon . . .I would agree. Guy Wilber's documentation cannot be disputed, but 1950s photography of open-car lumber loads shows VERY predominantly unpackaged and unwrapped loads. The existence of a standard for loading of wrapped loads does not equate to widespread use of same. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: GAC Pfaulder Milk Reefers in freight service
rdietrichson
Charlie,
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It is in the file section in the second alpabetical section. Rick Dietrichson ---- Charlie Vlk <cvlk@comcast.net> wrote:
Where is the file? Could someone provide a link..it doesn't show up in the
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Re: New format?
John Hagen <sprinthag@...>
Having had to use it a few times now it really is no big deal. Actually
little different in function than the old format albeit a definite difference in form. John Hagenhttp://merrimack.patch.com/articles/former-town-councilor-i-hope-the-5- supremes-get-colon-cancer From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George R. Stilwell, Jr. Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2012 12:40 PM To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Subject: [STMFC] Re: New format? I agree. The new format is a pain in the butt. How can we get back to the old format? Ray
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Re: GAC Pfaulder Milk Reefers in freight service
al_brown03
Main site, files section.
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AL B.
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Charlie Vlk" <cvlk@...> wrote:
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Re: GAC Pfaulder Milk Reefers in freight service
Charlie Vlk
Where is the file? Could someone provide a link..it doesn't show up in the
new photos section and trying to find it in the photos and files sections I didn't see it either. Is it on the main site or another? Charlie Vlk From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of al_brown03 Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2012 2:38 PM To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Subject: [STMFC] Re: GAC Pfaulder Milk Reefers in freight service The file is called ACL912ROCKYMT-1200.jpg Car in question is the second one behind the growlythings. Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla. --- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Don" <riverman_vt@...> wrote: <wpmccoy@> wrote: 912 North at Rocky MT, NC in probably 1963 or 64. I know the photo date is outside this group's scope but the second car in the train may not be. It looks like a GAF Pfaulder reefer with a monogram of some sort and the standard GAC gold lettering. I want to justify one of these cars for my 1950s SE era. Any ideas on who the lesssee would be? under "ACL", "Calloway", GPEX, or "milk car" but expect you are probably refering to 6,000 gal. capacity cars of orange juice concentrate from Dunedin, Fla. to Boston for H.P. Hood & Sons, though others unknown to me may also have moved o.j. concentrate in this manner. Hood was still receiving such carloads until it went to trucks in 1972. The steam and passenger signal lines were removed from the milk cars earlier for use in freight rather than passenger service. H.P. Hood, by-the-way, was the largest user of the GPEX cars and the last to use them in milk service. The Richter Vinegar Company, however, was still using them in brine service between Manitowoc, Wis. and Ludington, Mich. as late as August 1978 in which service they spent more time on Lake Michigan car ferries than on actual rail. The L&N and GM&O, thence IC, used a number of them for water cars in work train service as well. At least a half dozen have been preserved at various locations.
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