Date   

Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

Scott H. Haycock
 

Todd, Not Quite.
Whoever took this photo set the exposure in his camera to photograph the engine.Because the engine is so dark to begin with,he is attempting to be able to see some detail on the engine. a side effect, if you will, is to lighten up the entire photo. If the photo had been exposed for the rest of the scene, the engine,in fact the whole scene would be darker. The engine would be so dark no detail would show. The shirt would appear normal. The cars would be darker. Try looking at the photo through sunglasses and you will see what I mean.
The car behind the figure is darker closer to edge of the image because of the vignetting. Notice how dark the upper right corner is. The whole right edge is also darker. It's more apparent in the sky because of the lack of contrast there.
Scott

----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Horton" <toddchorton@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 7:40:52 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: PRR covered hoppers colors






So would this account for the hopper car being dark while the guy riding the footboards have a glowing white shirt? I've looked at this pic numerous times. I'm not trying to use it for a painting guide for PRR PS-2's. I'm looking at this as a photo showing that all PRR covered hoppers weren't snow white in color. I know that Kadee caught some flack because of the color choice they made for their offerings.

If I'm reading this correctly then everything to the left of the guy riding the foot boards could have been developed darker than normal. Is that wrong or right in my assumption?

Todd Horton


Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

Todd Horton
 

Ed, my point exactly. You can't say that all PRR (or insert your favorite road) covered hoppers cars were painted in all the same shades of (insert car color here) paint and that never changed through the steam era. If you study that photo, and I have beyond a normal intelligence level, then unless you're Ray Charles you have to come to the conclusion that the colors varied for different years or from different car shops or manufactures. I do believe that there were PRR cars that were almost snow white but I also believe that there were cars that were similar to what we see in the photo. Sam Clarke at Kadee told me that they used paint chip provided by the PRRT&HS for the color of their models. So how can anyone say that this is wrong????    If this isn't a smoking gun then show me something that is.
 
Off my soapbox for the moment anyway.
 
 

Todd Horton   


________________________________
From: Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] PRR covered hoppers colors


 


On Aug 13, 2012, at 3:54 PM, Todd Horton wrote:

I'm speculating here, look at the hopper coupled to the one that is
glowing white behind the locomotive cab. "IF" that's a PRR hopper then
there's clearly different shades of these cars. Again, I'm purely
speculating but I have to agree with you Mike. Everything that is
close to white has that nuke effect to it.
Todd,
I don't know if this at all germane to the issue. Original paint
samples from the ACF-built covered hopper cars reveal an incredibly
wide range of gray shades used from 1940 to 1952. I see no reason to
believe that variations in the shades of gray didn't continue with the
PS-2s built during the 1950s.

I have 4 gray paint samples for Missouri Pacific covered hoppers built
by ACF during the relatively short period of 1942 to 1948. Keeping in
mind this was a single railroad, the four shades of gray are not
remotely close.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

Todd Horton
 

So would this account for the hopper car being dark while the guy riding the footboards have a glowing white shirt? I've looked at this pic numerous times. I'm not trying to use it for a painting guide for PRR PS-2's. I'm looking at this as a photo showing that all PRR covered hoppers weren't snow white in color. I know that Kadee caught some flack because of the color choice they made for their offerings.
 
If I'm reading this correctly then everything to the left of the guy riding the foot boards could have been developed darker than normal. Is that wrong or right in my assumption?

Todd Horton


________________________________
From: soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 6:03 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: PRR covered hoppers colors



 



--- In mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com, "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@...> wrote:

Mike,

Actually, I felt that the developing or exposure might not have been consistent across the image - there seems to be an edge effect to me

Regards

Bruce
Actually, the dark corners are familiar to anyone who carried an Argus C-2 back in the fifties and sixties... that camera consistently underexposed the corners and ends of a 35mm frame.

Dennis


Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

Scott H. Haycock
 

Bill, Try This, another way in:
http://pcapp1.tripod.com/martinscreek.htm
The photo in question is the center one.
Scott

----- Original Message -----
From: "lnbill" <fgexbill@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 6:18:24 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: PRR covered hoppers colors






Still nothing using Safari

BIll Welch





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

Bill Welch
 

Still nothing using Safari

BIll Welch

--- In STMFC@..., "Scott H. Haycock " <shhaycock@...> wrote:

Bill, try it again.
http://pcapp1.tripod.com/8-13-2005%207-42-34%20PM_0062.jpg
Scott

----- Original Message -----
From: "lnbill" <fgexbill@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 4:36:44 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: PRR covered hoppers colors






For some reason, I am unable to view the photo in question, I just the the "Tripod" logo.

The darkening could also be caused by using a lens hood or shade meant for a longer lens than the one it is mounted on.

Bill Welch





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

rwitt_2000
 

Bill,

On my MacBook Pro it didn't work with Firefox as I only received the
"Tripod" logo, but did with Apples' Safari. I have no idea why.

Bob Witt

--- In STMFC@..., "lnbill" <fgexbill@...> wrote:

For some reason, I am unable to view the photo in question, I just the
the "Tripod" logo.

The darkening could also be caused by using a lens hood or shade meant
for a longer lens than the one it is mounted on.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., "soolinehistory" destorzek@ wrote:



--- In STMFC@..., "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@> wrote:

Mike,

Actually, I felt that the developing or exposure might not have
been consistent across the image - there seems to be an edge effect to
me

Regards

Bruce
Actually, the dark corners are familiar to anyone who carried an
Argus C-2 back in the fifties and sixties... that camera consistently
underexposed the corners and ends of a 35mm frame.

Dennis


Re: Helium Car

Steven D Johnson
 

Tony,



Thanks for the information on the Athearn trucks.



Steve Johnson





From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Anthony Thompson
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 4:40 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Helium Car





Awhile back, the question was raised whether Athearn sells the former MDC
100-ton trucks, used under the SP ore gondolas. They are not shown on the
Athearn web pages for parts, but Athearn says those listings are not
complete, and to check with the parts department, I have checked with them,
and here is their reply:

Thank you for your inquiry. Please note that these trucks are in stock.
Please see the information and instructions below.

ATHP90404 TRK 100T RB W/CLASP BRAKES RTR for $7.98 (2pk)

Please note that may be ordered directly from our Parts Department
(parts@... <mailto:parts%40athearn.com> ) by mail to the address
listed below, by e-mail at parts@... <mailto:parts%40athearn.com>
or by phone at 310-763-7140 ext.122 or by FAX at (310) 895-7484 Monday to
Friday 8AM to 3:30 PM, Pacific Standard Time. Please note that there is
minimum $10.00 shipping and handling charge for all purchased parts. We
accept checks, money orders, Visa and MasterCard. We do not use or accept
Pay Pal as a method of payment. Please not that California and Illinois
sales tax will be applied to orders for residents of these states. <<

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Oddball update

Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)
 

Hi Brian, Clark, and List Members,

I too am sad things have gotten this bad for him - the printing on his decals is nice and sharp even in N scale, and his decal material goes on very easily and is very thin. I guess I'm lucky in that I purchased a 'lifetime supply' of items in his catalog maybe five years back so I probably have what I need for the forseeable future.

- Claus Schlund

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Ehni [mailto:behni@...]
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 08:59 AM
To: 'STMFC List'
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Oddball update

Dang. That IS sad. He had quite an extensive product list.


Thanks!
--

Brian P. Ehni

From: <cepropst@q.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Monday, August 13, 2012 10:37 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Oddball update






Awhile back I asked if anyone has had trouble getting decals from Oddballs.
Here¹s an update on the sad state of affairs.
Jason Klocke placed a rather large order, never received it and got the run
around when he inquired. He contacted the Kansas state attorney general¹s
office and then received a refund check from Tom that bounced. Now the state
will force Tom to send Jason a money order. If anyone else would to try and
get their money back please contact Nancy Tellez at 1-785-296-3751 she would
like to hear from you.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa















------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

al_brown03
 

I can't see it either. I can never remember what " %20 " in a link translates to.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., "Scott H. Haycock " <shhaycock@...> wrote:

Bill, try it again.
http://pcapp1.tripod.com/8-13-2005%207-42-34%20PM_0062.jpg
Scott

----- Original Message -----
From: "lnbill" <fgexbill@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 4:36:44 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: PRR covered hoppers colors






For some reason, I am unable to view the photo in question, I just the the "Tripod" logo.

The darkening could also be caused by using a lens hood or shade meant for a longer lens than the one it is mounted on.

Bill Welch





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: are there any bozos in model railroading?

Scott H. Haycock
 

----- Original Message -----
From: cinderandeight@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 4:42:57 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: are there any bozos in model railroading?






"This animal is sick!", probably referring to a guy who couldn't figure out
the right shade of gray for a PRR H34? Many photos did make them look
almost white, but they were definitely a medium Gray from my experience.
Yes, Firesign did instructs many of us back then.
Rich Burg (on the bus)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

Scott H. Haycock
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "lnbill" <fgexbill@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 4:36:44 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: PRR covered hoppers colors






For some reason, I am unable to view the photo in question, I just the the "Tripod" logo.

The darkening could also be caused by using a lens hood or shade meant for a longer lens than the one it is mounted on.

Bill Welch





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: are there any bozos in model railroading?

cinderandeight@...
 

"This animal is sick!", probably referring to a guy who couldn't figure out
the right shade of gray for a PRR H34? Many photos did make them look
almost white, but they were definitely a medium Gray from my experience.
Yes, Firesign did instructs many of us back then.
Rich Burg (on the bus)


Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

Bill Welch
 

For some reason, I am unable to view the photo in question, I just the the "Tripod" logo.

The darkening could also be caused by using a lens hood or shade meant for a longer lens than the one it is mounted on.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote:



--- In STMFC@..., "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@> wrote:

Mike,

Actually, I felt that the developing or exposure might not have been consistent across the image - there seems to be an edge effect to me

Regards

Bruce
Actually, the dark corners are familiar to anyone who carried an Argus C-2 back in the fifties and sixties... that camera consistently underexposed the corners and ends of a 35mm frame.

Dennis


Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

Scott H. Haycock
 

Dennis,
This effect is called "vignetting" and is caused by a lens mismatched to a camera body. In modern photography, for example, using a lens designed for a digital camera with its smaller sensor, on a full frame 35mm camera body can cause this effect.
Scott Haycock

----- Original Message -----
From: "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 4:03:51 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: PRR covered hoppers colors









Actually, the dark corners are familiar to anyone who carried an Argus C-2 back in the fifties and sixties... that camera consistently underexposed the corners and ends of a 35mm frame.

Dennis


Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@...> wrote:

Mike,

Actually, I felt that the developing or exposure might not have been consistent across the image - there seems to be an edge effect to me

Regards

Bruce
Actually, the dark corners are familiar to anyone who carried an Argus C-2 back in the fifties and sixties... that camera consistently underexposed the corners and ends of a 35mm frame.

Dennis


Re: Helium Car

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Awhile back, the question was raised whether Athearn sells the former MDC 100-ton trucks, used under the SP ore gondolas. They are not shown on the Athearn web pages for parts, but Athearn says those listings are not complete, and to check with the parts department, I have checked with them, and here is their reply:

Thank you for your inquiry. Please note that these trucks are in stock. Please see the information and instructions below.
ATHP90404 TRK 100T RB W/CLASP BRAKES RTR for $7.98 (2pk)

Please note that may be ordered directly from our Parts Department (parts@...) by mail to the address listed below, by e-mail at parts@... or by phone at 310-763-7140 ext.122 or by FAX at (310) 895-7484 Monday to Friday 8AM to 3:30 PM, Pacific Standard Time. Please note that there is minimum $10.00 shipping and handling charge for all purchased parts. We accept checks, money orders, Visa and MasterCard. We do not use or accept Pay Pal as a method of payment. Please not that California and Illinois sales tax will be applied to orders for residents of these states. <<

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Aug 13, 2012, at 1:43 PM, Mike Brock wrote:
It IS noteworthy how dependent one is on mother nature when
shooting photos of any kind.
True, Mike, and that's only one of numerous variables. With color
slides, the outcome also depends on the camera and camera settings,
the film, the color processing, and how - and how much - the dyes may
have faded or otherwise changed since the image was printed.
Modelers who resort to color slides as a guide to prototype paint
colors, as Todd did in this instance, are taking a lot of risks.
Having a number of color slides showing the same cars with the paint
aged and weathered about the same amount can reduce those risks but
certainly not eliminate them. Furthermore, as we've noted on this
list any number of times in the past, knowing with some certainty
what color paint was on the prototype doesn't mean you want to paint
the model that color, as no indoor lighting exactly duplicates either
the character or intensity of sunlight, and there are other variables
as well (e.g., small objects don't look the same as large objects
when painted the same color). Several of us yanked Todd's chain (in
a friendly way, of course) for trying to settle an argument about
color with a single slide, especially one where the color was so
obviously "off." He may well be right, but he needs more evidence
than a single slide to prove it, even it it were a better slide than
that one.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

Scott H. Haycock
 

Todd and all
The car behind the cab looks to be similar in color to the one on the right. It also looks to me that the exposure was metered off of the dark engine causing the image to be over exposed. This explains the glowing white shirt. I suspect that all the cars are actually darker than they appear in this image. A lso remember that age differences in the paint job, and weathering will change the appearance of freight cars. If you were to line up several cars of the same type and look at them under the same lighting conditions, no two would be exactly the same color.
Scott

----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Horton" <toddchorton@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 2:54:51 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] PRR covered hoppers colors






I'm speculating here, look at the hopper coupled to the one that is glowing white behind the locomotive cab. "IF" that's a PRR hopper then there's clearly different shades of these cars. Again, I'm purely speculating but I have to agree with you Mike. Everything that is close to white has that nuke effect to it.

Todd Horton


Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

Ed Hawkins
 

On Aug 13, 2012, at 3:54 PM, Todd Horton wrote:

I'm speculating here, look at the hopper coupled to the one that is
glowing white behind the locomotive cab. "IF" that's a PRR hopper then
there's clearly different shades of these cars. Again, I'm purely
speculating but I have to agree with you Mike. Everything that is
close to white has that nuke effect to it.
Todd,
I don't know if this at all germane to the issue. Original paint
samples from the ACF-built covered hopper cars reveal an incredibly
wide range of gray shades used from 1940 to 1952. I see no reason to
believe that variations in the shades of gray didn't continue with the
PS-2s built during the 1950s.

I have 4 gray paint samples for Missouri Pacific covered hoppers built
by ACF during the relatively short period of 1942 to 1948. Keeping in
mind this was a single railroad, the four shades of gray are not
remotely close.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

Bruce Smith
 

Mike,

Actually, I felt that the developing or exposure might not have been consistent across the image - there seems to be an edge effect to me



Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/


"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

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On Aug 13, 2012, at 3:43 PM, Mike Brock wrote:


Hmmm. Interesting photo. First, Tony and Richard may be correct that the
color is way off. Tony says:

"Todd, it's way green. Everything in the photo is greenish. That means the
dyes have shifted or that the light was funny when the photo was taken. The
color balance is readily corrected in Photoshop."

And, yet, everything in the photo that is "whitish" colored appears VERY
white...except the Pennsy hopper on the right. I mean, the guy who appears
to be standing on the diesel's pilot appears to have just returned from a
lengthy stay at Los Alamos. I suppose the light source COULD have influenced
some of the results. It is strange that the dyes in the photo where the
pilot guy is standing have changed while those where the rightmost hopper
car have not. It is almost as if someone has ALREADY altered the slide's
image.

That's not to say sunlight must be consistent across an image. I can well
recall waiting for ex-N&W 1218 up on the Shenandoah N&W line with clouds
moving very rapidly causing shadows to move as rapidly across my target
view. One second the image would be quite bright appearing, then half might
be in dark shadow, the other half very bright as another cloud moved by. I
lucked out, BTW. It IS noteworthy how dependent one is on mother nature when
shooting photos of any kind.

Mike Brock








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