Date   

Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

Joel Holmes <lehighvalley@...>
 

Gentlemen,

We can discuss for ever what is the correct color to paint a particular
car. Lets get back to the real world. Look at a train and you will see
all shades and colors of cars. When I worked for BN, we painted all of
our open top hoppers black. One got wrecked on a foreign line and came
back painted box car green (If these is such a color). It was not
economical to repaint it black so it stayed green for several years. We
worry about the exact color, and yet the car may only have that color for
a few days or months after being painted at a particular shop. As Todd
has pointed out, paint colors vary between shops, and even from time to
time. If we get the car to look like it was at some time in its life, I
think we have done a good job. I realize that many will disagree with me,
but that is your right.

Joel Holmes

"Here’s the story: the two hoppers are painted different colors. Live
with it."

I agree 100%, if there's an argument to the contary then I want to hear
it.

Todd Horton


________________________________
From: Schuyler.larrabee <schuyler.larrabee@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 10:12 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: PRR covered hoppers colors



 

This has been one of the sillier threads on this list. There are dozens
of reasons that the color of the two PRR covered hoppers could be
different colors. Different build dates, repaintings, ability of the
paint used to resist fading, different shops using different paints, age,
weathering, different service territories, cloud shadows, the list goes on
and on.

WHITE shirt? Not so glowing as I see it. Lots of men in trades like this
wear a white t shirt, a clean one every day. Not a big deal.

Here’s the story: the two hoppers are painted different colors. Live
with it.

SGL

From: mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com
[mailto:mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Todd Horton
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 9:41 PM
To: mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

So would this account for the hopper car being dark while the guy riding
the footboards have a glowing white shirt? I've looked at this pic
numerous times. I'm not trying to use it for a painting guide for PRR
PS-2's. I'm looking at this as a photo showing that all PRR covered
hoppers weren't snow white in color. I know that Kadee caught some flack
because of the color choice they made for their offerings.

If I'm reading this correctly then everything to the left of the guy
riding the foot boards could have been developed darker than normal. Is
that wrong or right in my assumption?

Todd Horton

________________________________
From: soolinehistory <mailto:destorzek%40mchsi.com
<mailto:destorzek%40mchsi.com> >
To: mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 6:03 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

--- In mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com, "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@...>
wrote:

Mike,

Actually, I felt that the developing or exposure might not have been
consistent across the image - there seems to be an edge effect to me

Regards

Bruce
Actually, the dark corners are familiar to anyone who carried an Argus C-2
back in the fifties and sixties... that camera consistently underexposed
the corners and ends of a 35mm frame.

Dennis











M&StL 53 foot flatcar - need images for creation of decals

Bob McCarthy
 

Good evening!

      Would appreciate any clear images of this group of M&StL flatt cars.

      Thanks in advance for any assistance you can provide.

Bob McCarthy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


ADMIN: Re: Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

Mikebrock
 

There is, of course, nothing out of scope about PRR covered hopper cars but it does seem that we have exhausted the discussion about this particular, rather odd slide. Therefore, this thread is now terminated.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Aren't we done yet???

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

Mikebrock
 

Schuyler.larrabee says:

"WHITE shirt? Not so glowing as I see it. Lots of men in trades like this wear a white t shirt, a clean one every day. Not a big deal".

So, you don't give credence to my theory that the guy spent a few yrs in Los Alamos? I suppose I should have added that I don't think he's wearing a shirt at all. No idea how he sleeps...

Mike Brock


Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

Todd Horton
 

I get it, I know that color can shift from one photo to the next.
 
All I was saying is that both of those PRR cars are NOT painted the same color.
 
If anyone wants to argue that point then I want to see evidence otherwise.

Todd Horton


________________________________
From: Scott H. Haycock <shhaycock@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: PRR covered hoppers colors


 

Then you do get the point. The more you learn about photography and how light works on color, the more you will "see" in an image.
Scott

----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Horton" <mailto:toddchorton%40rocketmail.com>
To: mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com, mailto:prr-modeling%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 8:29:53 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

.

I think this photo speaks volumes the more you look at it.

Todd Horton

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

Scott H. Haycock
 

Then you do get the point. The more you learn about photography and how light works on color, the more you will "see" in an image.
Scott

----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Horton" <toddchorton@...>
To: STMFC@..., prr-modeling@...
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 8:29:53 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: PRR covered hoppers colors






.

I think this photo speaks volumes the more you look at it.

Todd Horton


Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

Todd Horton
 

Scott, I'm in 100% total agreement with you here. I'm not looking at this photo as a reference for painting covered hoppers. All I'm saying is that they weren't all snow white from start to finish as has been suggested before.
 
No argument here from me on that point.

I think this photo speaks volumes the more you look at it.

Todd Horton


________________________________
From: Scott H. Haycock <shhaycock@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: PRR covered hoppers colors



 

Todd I'm not saying that at all. Clearly the car on the left is lighter. What I'm saying is that everything in the image is darker than it appears. you cannot use the colors you see in this image to prove anything other than that the two cars are different colors at this time and place.
Scott

----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Horton" <mailto:toddchorton%40rocketmail.com>
To: mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 8:18:01 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

Scott, are you saying that both the PRR cars are the same color in this photo listed here but due to lighting and the effects of the camera they show up differently than what my eyes are seeing?

I'm trying to look at all sides of this from a reasonable prospective

Todd Horton

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

Scott H. Haycock
 

Todd I'm not saying that at all. Clearly the car on the left is lighter. What I'm saying is that everything in the image is darker than it appears. you cannot use the colors you see in this image to prove anything other than that the two cars are different colors at this time and place.
Scott

----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Horton" <toddchorton@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 8:18:01 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: PRR covered hoppers colors






Scott, are you saying that both the PRR cars are the same color in this photo listed here but due to lighting and the effects of the camera they show up differently than what my eyes are seeing?

I'm trying to look at all sides of this from a reasonable prospective

Todd Horton


Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

Todd Horton
 

"Here’s the story: the two hoppers are painted different colors. Live with it."

I agree 100%, if there's an argument to the contary then I want to hear it.

Todd Horton


________________________________
From: Schuyler.larrabee <schuyler.larrabee@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 10:12 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: PRR covered hoppers colors



 

This has been one of the sillier threads on this list. There are dozens of reasons that the color of the two PRR covered hoppers could be different colors. Different build dates, repaintings, ability of the paint used to resist fading, different shops using different paints, age, weathering, different service territories, cloud shadows, the list goes on and on.

WHITE shirt? Not so glowing as I see it. Lots of men in trades like this wear a white t shirt, a clean one every day. Not a big deal.

Here’s the story: the two hoppers are painted different colors. Live with it.

SGL

From: mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Todd Horton
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 9:41 PM
To: mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

So would this account for the hopper car being dark while the guy riding the footboards have a glowing white shirt? I've looked at this pic numerous times. I'm not trying to use it for a painting guide for PRR PS-2's. I'm looking at this as a photo showing that all PRR covered hoppers weren't snow white in color. I know that Kadee caught some flack because of the color choice they made for their offerings.

If I'm reading this correctly then everything to the left of the guy riding the foot boards could have been developed darker than normal. Is that wrong or right in my assumption?

Todd Horton

________________________________
From: soolinehistory <mailto:destorzek%40mchsi.com <mailto:destorzek%40mchsi.com> >
To: mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 6:03 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

--- In mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com, "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@...> wrote:

Mike,

Actually, I felt that the developing or exposure might not have been consistent across the image - there seems to be an edge effect to me

Regards

Bruce
Actually, the dark corners are familiar to anyone who carried an Argus C-2 back in the fifties and sixties... that camera consistently underexposed the corners and ends of a 35mm frame.

Dennis



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

Todd Horton
 

Scott, are you saying that both the PRR cars are the same color in this photo listed here but due to lighting and the effects of the camera they show up differently than what my eyes are seeing?
 
I'm trying to look at all sides of this from a reasonable prospective
 
Todd Horton


________________________________
From: Scott H. Haycock <shhaycock@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: PRR covered hoppers colors


 

Todd, Not Quite.
Whoever took this photo set the exposure in his camera to photograph the engine.Because the engine is so dark to begin with,he is attempting to be able to see some detail on the engine. a side effect, if you will, is to lighten up the entire photo. If the photo had been exposed for the rest of the scene, the engine,in fact the whole scene would be darker. The engine would be so dark no detail would show. The shirt would appear normal. The cars would be darker. Try looking at the photo through sunglasses and you will see what I mean.
The car behind the figure is darker closer to edge of the image because of the vignetting. Notice how dark the upper right corner is. The whole right edge is also darker. It's more apparent in the sky because of the lack of contrast there.
Scott

----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Horton" <mailto:toddchorton%40rocketmail.com>
To: mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 7:40:52 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

So would this account for the hopper car being dark while the guy riding the footboards have a glowing white shirt? I've looked at this pic numerous times. I'm not trying to use it for a painting guide for PRR PS-2's. I'm looking at this as a photo showing that all PRR covered hoppers weren't snow white in color. I know that Kadee caught some flack because of the color choice they made for their offerings.

If I'm reading this correctly then everything to the left of the guy riding the foot boards could have been developed darker than normal. Is that wrong or right in my assumption?

Todd Horton

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

Schuyler Larrabee
 

This has been one of the sillier threads on this list. There are dozens of reasons that the color of the two PRR covered hoppers could be different colors. Different build dates, repaintings, ability of the paint used to resist fading, different shops using different paints, age, weathering, different service territories, cloud shadows, the list goes on and on.



WHITE shirt? Not so glowing as I see it. Lots of men in trades like this wear a white t shirt, a clean one every day. Not a big deal.



Here’s the story: the two hoppers are painted different colors. Live with it.





SGL



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Todd Horton
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 9:41 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: PRR covered hoppers colors





So would this account for the hopper car being dark while the guy riding the footboards have a glowing white shirt? I've looked at this pic numerous times. I'm not trying to use it for a painting guide for PRR PS-2's. I'm looking at this as a photo showing that all PRR covered hoppers weren't snow white in color. I know that Kadee caught some flack because of the color choice they made for their offerings.

If I'm reading this correctly then everything to the left of the guy riding the foot boards could have been developed darker than normal. Is that wrong or right in my assumption?

Todd Horton


________________________________
From: soolinehistory <destorzek@... <mailto:destorzek%40mchsi.com> >
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 6:03 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: PRR covered hoppers colors





--- In mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com, "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@...> wrote:

Mike,

Actually, I felt that the developing or exposure might not have been consistent across the image - there seems to be an edge effect to me

Regards

Bruce
Actually, the dark corners are familiar to anyone who carried an Argus C-2 back in the fifties and sixties... that camera consistently underexposed the corners and ends of a 35mm frame.

Dennis

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

Scott H. Haycock
 

Todd, Not Quite.
Whoever took this photo set the exposure in his camera to photograph the engine.Because the engine is so dark to begin with,he is attempting to be able to see some detail on the engine. a side effect, if you will, is to lighten up the entire photo. If the photo had been exposed for the rest of the scene, the engine,in fact the whole scene would be darker. The engine would be so dark no detail would show. The shirt would appear normal. The cars would be darker. Try looking at the photo through sunglasses and you will see what I mean.
The car behind the figure is darker closer to edge of the image because of the vignetting. Notice how dark the upper right corner is. The whole right edge is also darker. It's more apparent in the sky because of the lack of contrast there.
Scott

----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Horton" <toddchorton@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 7:40:52 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: PRR covered hoppers colors






So would this account for the hopper car being dark while the guy riding the footboards have a glowing white shirt? I've looked at this pic numerous times. I'm not trying to use it for a painting guide for PRR PS-2's. I'm looking at this as a photo showing that all PRR covered hoppers weren't snow white in color. I know that Kadee caught some flack because of the color choice they made for their offerings.

If I'm reading this correctly then everything to the left of the guy riding the foot boards could have been developed darker than normal. Is that wrong or right in my assumption?

Todd Horton


Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

Todd Horton
 

Ed, my point exactly. You can't say that all PRR (or insert your favorite road) covered hoppers cars were painted in all the same shades of (insert car color here) paint and that never changed through the steam era. If you study that photo, and I have beyond a normal intelligence level, then unless you're Ray Charles you have to come to the conclusion that the colors varied for different years or from different car shops or manufactures. I do believe that there were PRR cars that were almost snow white but I also believe that there were cars that were similar to what we see in the photo. Sam Clarke at Kadee told me that they used paint chip provided by the PRRT&HS for the color of their models. So how can anyone say that this is wrong????    If this isn't a smoking gun then show me something that is.
 
Off my soapbox for the moment anyway.
 
 

Todd Horton   


________________________________
From: Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] PRR covered hoppers colors


 


On Aug 13, 2012, at 3:54 PM, Todd Horton wrote:

I'm speculating here, look at the hopper coupled to the one that is
glowing white behind the locomotive cab. "IF" that's a PRR hopper then
there's clearly different shades of these cars. Again, I'm purely
speculating but I have to agree with you Mike. Everything that is
close to white has that nuke effect to it.
Todd,
I don't know if this at all germane to the issue. Original paint
samples from the ACF-built covered hopper cars reveal an incredibly
wide range of gray shades used from 1940 to 1952. I see no reason to
believe that variations in the shades of gray didn't continue with the
PS-2s built during the 1950s.

I have 4 gray paint samples for Missouri Pacific covered hoppers built
by ACF during the relatively short period of 1942 to 1948. Keeping in
mind this was a single railroad, the four shades of gray are not
remotely close.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

Todd Horton
 

So would this account for the hopper car being dark while the guy riding the footboards have a glowing white shirt? I've looked at this pic numerous times. I'm not trying to use it for a painting guide for PRR PS-2's. I'm looking at this as a photo showing that all PRR covered hoppers weren't snow white in color. I know that Kadee caught some flack because of the color choice they made for their offerings.
 
If I'm reading this correctly then everything to the left of the guy riding the foot boards could have been developed darker than normal. Is that wrong or right in my assumption?

Todd Horton


________________________________
From: soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 6:03 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: PRR covered hoppers colors



 



--- In mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com, "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@...> wrote:

Mike,

Actually, I felt that the developing or exposure might not have been consistent across the image - there seems to be an edge effect to me

Regards

Bruce
Actually, the dark corners are familiar to anyone who carried an Argus C-2 back in the fifties and sixties... that camera consistently underexposed the corners and ends of a 35mm frame.

Dennis


Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

Scott H. Haycock
 

Bill, Try This, another way in:
http://pcapp1.tripod.com/martinscreek.htm
The photo in question is the center one.
Scott

----- Original Message -----
From: "lnbill" <fgexbill@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 6:18:24 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: PRR covered hoppers colors






Still nothing using Safari

BIll Welch





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

Bill Welch
 

Still nothing using Safari

BIll Welch

--- In STMFC@..., "Scott H. Haycock " <shhaycock@...> wrote:

Bill, try it again.
http://pcapp1.tripod.com/8-13-2005%207-42-34%20PM_0062.jpg
Scott

----- Original Message -----
From: "lnbill" <fgexbill@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 4:36:44 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: PRR covered hoppers colors






For some reason, I am unable to view the photo in question, I just the the "Tripod" logo.

The darkening could also be caused by using a lens hood or shade meant for a longer lens than the one it is mounted on.

Bill Welch





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: PRR covered hoppers colors

rwitt_2000
 

Bill,

On my MacBook Pro it didn't work with Firefox as I only received the
"Tripod" logo, but did with Apples' Safari. I have no idea why.

Bob Witt

--- In STMFC@..., "lnbill" <fgexbill@...> wrote:

For some reason, I am unable to view the photo in question, I just the
the "Tripod" logo.

The darkening could also be caused by using a lens hood or shade meant
for a longer lens than the one it is mounted on.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., "soolinehistory" destorzek@ wrote:



--- In STMFC@..., "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@> wrote:

Mike,

Actually, I felt that the developing or exposure might not have
been consistent across the image - there seems to be an edge effect to
me

Regards

Bruce
Actually, the dark corners are familiar to anyone who carried an
Argus C-2 back in the fifties and sixties... that camera consistently
underexposed the corners and ends of a 35mm frame.

Dennis


Re: Helium Car

Steven D Johnson
 

Tony,



Thanks for the information on the Athearn trucks.



Steve Johnson





From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Anthony Thompson
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 4:40 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Helium Car





Awhile back, the question was raised whether Athearn sells the former MDC
100-ton trucks, used under the SP ore gondolas. They are not shown on the
Athearn web pages for parts, but Athearn says those listings are not
complete, and to check with the parts department, I have checked with them,
and here is their reply:

Thank you for your inquiry. Please note that these trucks are in stock.
Please see the information and instructions below.

ATHP90404 TRK 100T RB W/CLASP BRAKES RTR for $7.98 (2pk)

Please note that may be ordered directly from our Parts Department
(parts@... <mailto:parts%40athearn.com> ) by mail to the address
listed below, by e-mail at parts@... <mailto:parts%40athearn.com>
or by phone at 310-763-7140 ext.122 or by FAX at (310) 895-7484 Monday to
Friday 8AM to 3:30 PM, Pacific Standard Time. Please note that there is
minimum $10.00 shipping and handling charge for all purchased parts. We
accept checks, money orders, Visa and MasterCard. We do not use or accept
Pay Pal as a method of payment. Please not that California and Illinois
sales tax will be applied to orders for residents of these states. <<

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Oddball update

Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)
 

Hi Brian, Clark, and List Members,

I too am sad things have gotten this bad for him - the printing on his decals is nice and sharp even in N scale, and his decal material goes on very easily and is very thin. I guess I'm lucky in that I purchased a 'lifetime supply' of items in his catalog maybe five years back so I probably have what I need for the forseeable future.

- Claus Schlund

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Ehni [mailto:behni@...]
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 08:59 AM
To: 'STMFC List'
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Oddball update

Dang. That IS sad. He had quite an extensive product list.


Thanks!
--

Brian P. Ehni

From: <cepropst@q.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Monday, August 13, 2012 10:37 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Oddball update






Awhile back I asked if anyone has had trouble getting decals from Oddballs.
Here¹s an update on the sad state of affairs.
Jason Klocke placed a rather large order, never received it and got the run
around when he inquired. He contacted the Kansas state attorney general¹s
office and then received a refund check from Tom that bounced. Now the state
will force Tom to send Jason a money order. If anyone else would to try and
get their money back please contact Nancy Tellez at 1-785-296-3751 she would
like to hear from you.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa















------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



85101 - 85120 of 195529