Date   

Northeastern Fallen Flags RPM event

Eric Hansmann
 

Greetings all! It's time to announce another prototype modeler meet!



Northeastern Fallen Flags Prototype Modelers Meet
Saturday, September 29, 2012
9 AM to 6 PM at the Ted Blum 4-H Center
310 Milltown Road
Bridgewater, NJ 08807



Registration is only $20.00 in advance, or $25.00 the day of the event.

The spacious Ted Blum 4-H Center is located just off of NJ Route 202, and
easily accessible from Interstates 78 and 287.



Your registration includes a hot Italian Lunch buffet. The local 4-H club
will be selling a breakfast staples through the morning, while soft drinks
and coffee will be available throughout the day for a small donation.

It will be a full day of presentations, displays of completed and in-process
models, vendors, a limited "Tracky Tray" auction (please donate new items,
proceeds benefit 4-H), a great lunch and a chance for modelers to get
together for discussion and learning. The model display is the heart of any
RPM meet, so bring your work to show around. Plenty of tables will be set to
a comfortable viewing height.

Currently scheduled presenters include:

Craig Bisgeier, Ted DiIorio, Steve Funaro, Mike McCann, Mike McNamara, Dave
Messer, Ron Parisi, Bill Schaumburg and more.

The current vendor line-up includes:
Amesville Shops - cast resin freight car kits
Bethlehem Car Works - car kits and parts
Bob's Photos - Prototype photo prints and books
Funaro & Camerlengo - cast resin freight car kits
Shortline Hobbies - kits, tools, supplies, etc
Rocket Express - cast resin freight car kits

Thoroughbred Railroad Models - Custom models of NS and predecessor railroads

Please visit our website at http://www.hansmanns.org/neff_rpm/ for
registration forms, as well as lodging and location details.

Join our Facebook page at http://tinyurl.com/2cgcroh to keep up with the
latest news.

If you have a presentation or clinic you would like to show, or would like
to
inquire about vending, please contact us at neffrpm@yahoo.com
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/neffrpm/post?postID=f2C-Lu4DhjNDzK5V3wk2xJOnJ
7xIZKGPxwvenhCrv0inatF9gC-PogN8_EmzKmdWIYVVrYv_AEWa5w> .

Thanks and we hope to see you there!



Jim, Ralph, Eric, Jan, Ted, Craig and Dave


Re: USATC frieght cars

Hobi Point
 


Re: USATC frieght cars

railsnw@frontier.com <railsnw@...>
 

The kit cars were made during WW2. In the book United States Military Railway Service by Don DeNevi and Bob Hall are photos of kit box cars being assembled in England (photo dated 10-17-44)and a string of the two dome tank cars (photo dated 4-7-44). Also in the book Railroading in Eighteen Countries by Carl Gray who was Director General of the U.S. Military Railway Service from 1942 to 1945 their is a list of 10 responsibilities of the MRS units and number 6 was "Actual construction of prefabricated boxcars, flatcars and Gondolas, which had been shipped to the United Kingdom for erection".

Richard Wilkens

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gene" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:

Bruce,
Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the kit box cars, gondolas, flat cars and tank car come along AFTER World War Two in anticipation of the next war in Europe?

Quite a few years ago I had the opportunity to make a CAD drawing of the tank car. TM (Technical Manual) 55-2220-201-35 includes foldout drawings for the box car, high & low side gons but not the tank car since that came already assembled. (Drawings for the flat car are included since the flat was simply the gon or box without sides.

Gene Green

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@> wrote:

John,

The tank cars and "kit" boxcars have come up several times on this list, although particulars are not very detailed. The tank cars were single compartment two dome tanks to provide enough expansion space within the confines of tight european clearances. Photo are available in several books.


Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/


"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

__

/ &#92;

__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________

|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |

| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||

|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|

| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0



On Aug 23, 2012, at 9:44 PM, John Barry wrote:

I have a friend in the UK who is wondering about the rolling stock shipped to the UK and France to support the Allied effort to liberate the continent during WWII. Does any one have information on the design, construction and builders for the tank, flat, gondola, and box cars that were used by the Military Railway Service?

John Barry

ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights
Cotati, CA




Re: Transporting Hogs On The UP

Guy Wilber
 

Doug Harding wrote:

"Now for some questions:

1) Was the paper on the inside or outside of the car? I would speculate
the outside, otherwise the hogs would rip it off and harm themselves with
whatever fastener was used to hold the paper in place (staples?)."


I can't imagine the task of papering the outside of a single sheathed car and would tend to believe the cars were lined on the inside. Additionally, covering up the reporting marks and car data would enter into the equation. From AAR Freight Claims Bulletin No. 1110 (October of 1951); "During periods of stormy or severe cold weather the side of the car should be lined (up to four feet or more in height) with heavy paper, or battened in order to provide additional protection. This prevents a draft on the animals and raises the temperature of the car considerably." I would interpret "lined" as being inside the car."



"2) Would the paper have been similar to the paper later used in grain
doors? Or was it felt paper, ie 15lb rolled roofing paper, which was
commonly used to weather proof buildings, esp before siding was installed."


Very similar to the heavy rolled paper which was used for lining and padding cars far in advance of paper grain doors. Paper grain doors were double layered with steel banding embedded between the layers. There is little chance that roofing felt was used inside a stock car.


"3) Did they use slats or lath to keep the paper in place?"


Lath may have been used, the paper could have been stapled, nailed with felt or umbrella nails or, as was highly recommended by the early 1950s for paper lining, it could have been taped.



"5) Why reuse the same cars? If they can paper one car, they can paper
any car."


Why go to the added expense of papering more cars when you already had enough to serve the purpose? Again, it wasn't a requirement to clean and re-bed stock cars after each unloading.


Guy Wilber
Sparks, Nevada













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: USATC frieght cars

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gene" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:

Bruce,
Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the kit box cars, gondolas, flat cars and tank car come along AFTER World War Two in anticipation of the next war in Europe?
There have been successive groups of US built cars for war duty in Europe; The Haskell & Barker drawing files were full of drawings for various WWI cars.

The cars that most of us here are familiar with are the cold war era knock-down car "kits" because most of them never left the states. Groups have been surplused at various times, and made their way to tourist railways, or industries where the bodies were used as pre-fab storage sheds. Occasionally someone will get excited because they think they've found an "olde time" freightcar, but in reality these cars were never used in the US.

Dennis


10,000 gallon 2 or 3 dome MCB Class II high walkway tank cars

J. Craig Whitcomb
 

Does anyone know of a prototype for the W & R Enterprises MCB Class II, 10,000 gallon, high walkway two dome and three dome tank cars? All that I have seen in multiple compartment tank cars are 8,000 gallon cars.

If so, any ideas on numbers?

thanks

Jan Whitcomb


Re: Wheeling steel gondola questions [leads to completion of kit-bash Triple Play]

David Sieber
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Hansmann" <eric@...> wrote: I am
happy to expose a prototype possibility for the Accurail gondola, but I
must add uncertainty for cars in service beyond 1950 ... BTW, fine
decals representing the as-built lettering for these W&LE gondola were
recently offered by Gerry Glow.

and Ray Breyer wrote: None of these cars made it into NKP paint. The
class as a whole stayed intact into the Depression years, but the K
brake ban doomed them.

Gentlemen, unfortunate that these interesting gondolas didn't last into
my late-'50s modeling era; still, I'm interested in doing one up for my
1949 steam display train. Anyone have a photo link to one of these gons
in the '40s showing the lettering they wore at the end of their service
lives? I'd rather decal from a photo than just apply a generic WLE
roadname and simplified data.

Appreciate any assistance, Dave Sieber, Reno NV


Re: North American RRing in Western Europe

Barrybennetttoo@...
 

Come along to the event and you say hello to me.

Barry Bennett

In a message dated 25/08/2012 16:16:34 GMT Daylight Time,
fgexbill@tampabay.rr.com writes:




A new friend in Germany sent me the link to the official guide for the
American Railroading Convention in October in Adliswil, Switzerland. Members
of this list might enjoys seeing what is going on there.

Here is the link: _http://www.trainmaster.ch/XCV-15-Guide.pdf_
(http://www.trainmaster.ch/XCV-15-Guide.pdf)

Allow some time for it to download. Enjoy!

Bill Welch






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: ADMIN: Yahoo!Groups web interface is unable to post msgs

Aley, Jeff A
 

It appears that the problem is resolved, as I was able to post this message from the web interface.

Regards,

-Jeff Aley
Deputy Moderator, STMFC

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Aley, Jeff A" <Jeff.A.Aley@...> wrote:

Folks,

I saw this on another group, and verified that it is true for STMFC.

At this time people are unable to post messages via the web interface. This is a Yahoo!Groups problem, even though the error msg implies that it might be the fault of the user. It is not known when this capability will be back up.

Postings via direct email (such as this one) are still functioning normally.

Regards,

-Jeff Aley
Deputy Moderator, STMFC



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: USATC freight cars

William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Hello Tom and Group,

Many years ago, Intercontental Engineering -- located between the Missouri River and the CB&Q east of Parkville, Missouri -- had a number of the box cars that they were using for both storage and to occasionally move materials around their site on in-plant track work. I have no idea if these cars are still at this location today.

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Aug 25, 2012, at 5:34 AM, "Tom Birkett" <tnbirke@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

There are a pair of the box cars without trucks at Commercial Metals in
Independence, Kansas. This is a scrap dealer but I think they were being
used for material storage.

Tom Birkett

Bartlesville, OK

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 7:09 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: USATC frieght cars

Bruce,
Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the kit box cars, gondolas, flat cars
and tank car come along AFTER World War Two in anticipation of the next war
in Europe?

Quite a few years ago I had the opportunity to make a CAD drawing of the
tank car. TM (Technical Manual) 55-2220-201-35 includes foldout drawings for
the box car, high & low side gons but not the tank car since that came
already assembled. (Drawings for the flat car are included since the flat
was simply the gon or box without sides.

Gene Green

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bruce F.
Smith" <smithbf@...> wrote:

John,

The tank cars and "kit" boxcars have come up several times on this list,
although particulars are not very detailed. The tank cars were single
compartment two dome tanks to provide enough expansion space within the
confines of tight european clearances. Photo are available in several books.


Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/


"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

__

/ &#92;

__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________

|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |

| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||

|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|

| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0



On Aug 23, 2012, at 9:44 PM, John Barry wrote:

I have a friend in the UK who is wondering about the rolling stock shipped
to the UK and France to support the Allied effort to liberate the continent
during WWII. Does any one have information on the design, construction and
builders for the tank, flat, gondola, and box cars that were used by the
Military Railway Service?

John Barry

ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights
Cotati, CA







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


North American RRing in Western Europe

Bill Welch
 

A new friend in Germany sent me the link to the official guide for the American Railroading Convention in October in Adliswil, Switzerland. Members of this list might enjoys seeing what is going on there.

Here is the link: http://www.trainmaster.ch/XCV-15-Guide.pdf

Allow some time for it to download. Enjoy!

Bill Welch


Re: Wheeling steel gondola questions [leads to completion of kit-bash Triple Play]

Bill Welch
 

I think I will proceed with the kit-bash regardless. At the rate I am getting things painted and decaled, maybe another prototype will surface, so I will ask, are there other prototypes for a 10-rib/11-panel 40-foot gondola with plate steel ends?

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Ray Breyer <rtbsvrr69@...> wrote:

Hi Eric,
 
None of these cars made it into NKP paint. The class as a whole stayed intact into the Depression years, but the K brake ban doomed them:
 
                            7/1922    12/1930    4/1940    1/1945    7/1950    1/1951    1/1955
R6000-series:        100         100           66            65            1            1                0
52000-series:        1900      1900         1431       1347         11            5                0

The Wheeling's 1947 freight car diagram book shows them with KD brakes, so it's obvious that they didn't feel that these cars were worth upgrading to AB (never forget that not only was the Wheeling the most dangerous road in the USA to work on, but they were exceedingly CHEAP; even stingier than a normal steam-era road). I've got a couple of photos of these cars in the NKP's MOW pool, but as revenue cars they'd have dropped off the roster by 1953.

Hope this helps!
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL

 

________________________________
From: Eric Hansmann <eric@...>
 
Bill,

I am happy to expose a prototype possibility for the Accurail gondola, but I
must add uncertainty for cars in service beyond 1950. I have reviewed an NKP
freight equipment listing and have not found where these W&LE gondolas fit
into the NKP roster. Here's the PDF I reviewed at the Alphabet Route site:

http://www.alphabetroute.com/nkp/rosterpdfs/NKPFreightClass.pdf

Maybe Ray Breyer will chime in with new details.

The NKP pages from a 1950 ORER are also available on the Alphabet Route
site, but they are a poor, low-res scan and I cannot read the details. It
seems there are double digits under the W&LE listings towards the end of
those NKP pages, but I am not certain. If these gondolas still retained
their K brake system, then they may not have survived in revenue service
beyond 1953. Sorry to temper your enthusiasm, but I know you would feel
worse discovering these details after finishing a model.

BTW, fine decals representing the as-built lettering for these W&LE gondola
were recently offered by Gerry Glow. This spurred my conversion efforts.

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX



Re: USATC frieght cars

Bruce Smith
 

Gene,

Actually, I am not sure. I thought that some of them were used in WWII, but based that on comments that I might have misinterpreted.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

On Aug 25, 2012, at 7:09 AM, Gene wrote:

Bruce,
Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the kit box cars, gondolas, flat cars and tank car come along AFTER World War Two in anticipation of the next war in Europe?

Quite a few years ago I had the opportunity to make a CAD drawing of the tank car. TM (Technical Manual) 55-2220-201-35 includes foldout drawings for the box car, high & low side gons but not the tank car since that came already assembled. (Drawings for the flat car are included since the flat was simply the gon or box without sides.

Gene Green

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@...> wrote:

John,

The tank cars and "kit" boxcars have come up several times on this list, although particulars are not very detailed. The tank cars were single compartment two dome tanks to provide enough expansion space within the confines of tight european clearances. Photo are available in several books.


Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/


"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

__

/ &#92;

__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________

|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |

| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||

|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|

| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0



On Aug 23, 2012, at 9:44 PM, John Barry wrote:

I have a friend in the UK who is wondering about the rolling stock shipped to the UK and France to support the Allied effort to liberate the continent during WWII. Does any one have information on the design, construction and builders for the tank, flat, gondola, and box cars that were used by the Military Railway Service?

John Barry

ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights
Cotati, CA


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: USATC freight cars

Thomas Birkett
 

There are a pair of the box cars without trucks at Commercial Metals in
Independence, Kansas. This is a scrap dealer but I think they were being
used for material storage.

Tom Birkett

Bartlesville, OK



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 7:09 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: USATC frieght cars





Bruce,
Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the kit box cars, gondolas, flat cars
and tank car come along AFTER World War Two in anticipation of the next war
in Europe?

Quite a few years ago I had the opportunity to make a CAD drawing of the
tank car. TM (Technical Manual) 55-2220-201-35 includes foldout drawings for
the box car, high & low side gons but not the tank car since that came
already assembled. (Drawings for the flat car are included since the flat
was simply the gon or box without sides.

Gene Green

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bruce F.
Smith" <smithbf@...> wrote:

John,

The tank cars and "kit" boxcars have come up several times on this list,
although particulars are not very detailed. The tank cars were single
compartment two dome tanks to provide enough expansion space within the
confines of tight european clearances. Photo are available in several books.


Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/


"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

__

/ &#92;

__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________

|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |

| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||

|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|

| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0



On Aug 23, 2012, at 9:44 PM, John Barry wrote:

I have a friend in the UK who is wondering about the rolling stock shipped
to the UK and France to support the Allied effort to liberate the continent
during WWII. Does any one have information on the design, construction and
builders for the tank, flat, gondola, and box cars that were used by the
Military Railway Service?

John Barry

ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights
Cotati, CA




Re: USATC frieght cars

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

Bruce,
Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the kit box cars, gondolas, flat cars and tank car come along AFTER World War Two in anticipation of the next war in Europe?

Quite a few years ago I had the opportunity to make a CAD drawing of the tank car. TM (Technical Manual) 55-2220-201-35 includes foldout drawings for the box car, high & low side gons but not the tank car since that came already assembled. (Drawings for the flat car are included since the flat was simply the gon or box without sides.

Gene Green

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@...> wrote:

John,

The tank cars and "kit" boxcars have come up several times on this list, although particulars are not very detailed. The tank cars were single compartment two dome tanks to provide enough expansion space within the confines of tight european clearances. Photo are available in several books.


Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/


"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

__

/ &#92;

__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________

|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |

| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||

|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|

| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0



On Aug 23, 2012, at 9:44 PM, John Barry wrote:

I have a friend in the UK who is wondering about the rolling stock shipped to the UK and France to support the Allied effort to liberate the continent during WWII. Does any one have information on the design, construction and builders for the tank, flat, gondola, and box cars that were used by the Military Railway Service?

John Barry

ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights
Cotati, CA


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Question On Santa Fe Slogans

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Aug 24, 2012, at 11:29 AM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:

There are two versions of the GRAND CANYON LINE slogans on Santa Fe
refers. In one version
THE GRAND CANYON lettering is broken up on three levels. The second
version has the lettering
all on one line. Was this change a part of the 1947 lettering change?
Yes,

Was the three tiered lettering
applied only to the cars with the "map" scheme and the one line
version to the "SHIP AND TRAVEL"
cars?
Yes.

Or were the slogans interchangeable?
No,

Richard Hendrickson


Question On Santa Fe Slogans

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

There are two versions of the GRAND CANYON LINE slogans on Santa Fe refers. In one version
THE GRAND CANYON lettering is broken up on three levels. The second version has the lettering
all on one line. Was this change a part of the 1947 lettering change? Was the three tiered lettering
applied only to the cars with the "map" scheme and the one line version to the "SHIP AND TRAVEL"
cars? Or were the slogans interchangeable?

As usual thanks in advance for any help.

Bill Pardie


Re: USATC frieght cars

Richard Townsend
 

Klein Modellbahn of Austria made HO models of the two-dome tank car. I think they stopped manufacturing in 2008 or so, but some of the models may still be out there.


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


ADMIN: Yahoo!Groups web interface is unable to post msgs

Aley, Jeff A
 

Folks,

I saw this on another group, and verified that it is true for STMFC.

At this time people are unable to post messages via the web interface. This is a Yahoo!Groups problem, even though the error msg implies that it might be the fault of the user. It is not known when this capability will be back up.

Postings via direct email (such as this one) are still functioning normally.

Regards,

-Jeff Aley
Deputy Moderator, STMFC


Re: Wheeling steel gondola questions

Dennis Storzek
 

I tried to post this yesterday via the web page, no joy. We'll see if this works...
Glad to see someone making use of our cars as kitbash material.


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Hansmann" <eric@...> wrote:

I am working on an HO scale gondola project and I have a couple of questions
concerning the prototype. The work involves converting an HO scale Accurail
steel gondola to a Wheeling & Lake Erie steel gondola built in 1921...
The W&LE rostered these steel gondolas in the 52000-53899 series
encompassing 1900 cars of 41-foot length and built by Standard Steel in
1921. The 1925 ORER entry notes a MCB designation of GK and a class of
Gondola, Steel. The GK designation at that time would indicate the car has a
solid bottom and fixed ends with sufficient volume for a full load of coal,
and suitable for mill trade...

Here's a builders image from the 1922 Car Builders Cyclopedia:

http://www.hansmanns.org/images/wandle_52500_gondola_web.jpg



Did these W&LE 52000-53899 gondolas have drop bottoms?
You answered that question above... If it was classed GK, it had a solid floor. Solid floor meant no doors.

If so, were the floors wood or steel?
That's a more difficult question, and impossible to answer from the data in the ORER listing.

As to brake arrangement, I should think lacking any more detailed information about the underframe, the brake cylinder / lever / rod part included with the kit should be as close as anything. Just substitute the reservoir and triple valve from a K brake set, mounting them to brackets between the framing so the end up where they appear on the photo.

Dennis
Dennis Storzek

77201 - 77220 of 187861