Date   

Re: Owners of 10,000 gallon 2 and 3 dome tankcars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Aug 25, 2012, at 4:54 PM, Gary wrote:
W&R Enterprises worked with Microscale to develope the decals for
the high running board ACF 10,000 tank cars. The illustrations in
87-966 show that The Texas Company and The Southwestern Refining
Company had 3 dome cars.

The W&R flyer for the 10,000 gallon cars noted that Texaco had one
dome, two dome and three dome versions of these cars.
Gary is correct. As always, Bill McCowan did his homework when he
researched these models. However, it should be added that, by the
post-WW-II period that most of us model, it's not clear whether any
of them were still in revenue service, and if so, who owned them.
Southwestern Refining disappeared from the ORERs very early, probably
absorbed by some larger oil company in the great flurry of petroleum
industry mergers and buyouts that took place in the teens and '20s.
As for the Texaco cars, after General American took over the TCX
fleet in the 1930s they disposed of the older cars in the fleet that
were a maintenance problem, so the TCX Type 11s were off the roster
by the 1940s, either scrapped or sold second-hand.

Richard Hendrickson


Jerry Glow, has anyone heard from him lately

Bob McCarthy
 

Good evening!

     Has anyone on this list heard from Jerry?  Usually hear something from him weekly with new decal artwork.

     He has not responded to any emails for several weeks which is very unusual.

Thanks,

Bob McCarthy



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Re: "Home Points" for Tank Cars

Charles Hostetler <cesicjh@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Charles Hostetler" <cesicjh@...> wrote:

I'm thinking about waybills for routing tank cars to and from the Standard Oil tank farm facility (Milwaukee, WI) for my 1957-era layout. Standard receives bulk diesel and gas by boat, and ships to area distributors by rail and truck.

Part of the process seems clear to me. Loaded and empty tank cars both travel on regular freight waybills. The outgoing loads from Standard (on the CNW) should be on CNW forms. I'm guessing that after the load has reached the local distributor, a new freight waybill would be prepared on the form of whatever railroad serves the distributor, and that waybill will return the car to some location.

At this point in the process I'm get confused because I have two conflicting thoughts. One is the notion of "Home Points" as a gathering/staging point for privately-owned tank car empties. For example, the January 1958 ORER lists Manitowoc, WI as a Home Point for UTLX. The other notion is that the tank car ought to go back to the shipper's location, returning via the original routing.

So do I want a stream of UTLX empties coming onto the layout for loading at Standard primarily from the nearest Home Point (i.e., from the Manitowoc to the north)? Or do I want my empties coming back onto the layout on freight waybills from all directions (reflecting the various locations of the distributors who are returning the empties)?

Charles,

I think the latter operating scheme is closer to the prototype during the 1950s. According to the Freight Traffic Red Book (1955) "home points" listed in the ORER are a way for private car companies to receive newly acquired cars without negatively affecting their mileage equalization accounts. The idea of a regional traffic pool for privately owned cars is probably way too complicated in the context of the mileage allowance and equalization processes and the lack of automated tracing of cars during the 1950s.

You can find a discussion of the mileage allowance and equalization processes here:

http://cnwmodeling.blogspot.com/2012/08/tank-car-traffic-patterns-and-home.html

Regards ;)

Charles Hostetler


Re: Wheeling steel gondola questions [leads to completion of kit-bash Triple Play]

David Sieber
 

Eric, Appreciate your help. I had also checked Fallen Flags and found nothing. I'd neglected to check the NMRA photo archive; while your search came up empty, we can still hope there's a photo or two lurking among the yet-to-be-digitized part of the NMRA's extensive collection. Unfortunately, the Durrenberger article in MR Jan 87 has no prototype photos, only photos of the six different models that Cyril had made from the Tyco gon (I know I did a couple of those cars!). Good and bad news for Bill Welch; apparently, Southern 170000-171249 were similar to the WLE gons, 10-post/11-panel 40-footers with flat steel ends with two horizontal braces, and a horizontal brakewheel rather than a lever handbrake (Cyril modeled renumbered car #76955). He noted that the Southern gons were built prior to 1923, and that 75 cars were in revenue service in 1930, but that all of the cars were gone per the 1942 ORER; so, gone even earlier than the WLE gondolas (although perhaps some continued on in MOW service?). It looks like my best option is to do the Accurail kitbash, and then beat and weather that WLE gon to look like it's on its last legs - as the few remaining WLE prototype gons were in 1949-50!Thanks again, Dave Sieber, Reno NV


Re: Wheeling steel gondola questions

Ray Thibaut
 

Those are interesting trucks under that Wheeling Gondola!
Does any model manufacturer make anything like those trucks?
Aren't they called T-section, and doesn't that refer to the cross-section of the cast side-frame?
Ray Thibaut
teabow1958@...


Re: Wheeling steel gondola questions

rwitt_2000
 

Eric,

I tried to find more information on this series of gondolas from the
Railway Age summary of "Freight Cars Ordered for 1921"[RA vol 72, no. 1
January 7, 1922]. Unfortunately the W&LE had no listings for the year
1921 or for the years 1920 and 1922. The article does have two builder
photos of W&LE cars a different one of the gondola, #52052 (a 3/4 view
with showing the A-end) and a SS box car #27201.

My gut feeling is these gondolas were all steel including the floors to
be suitable for coal loading. You could try to verify this by finding a
similar gondola with the same IL and IW in the ORER with steel floors
and the same distance from the top of the rail to the top of the side
and compare the two cubic capacities. The cubic capacity of the gondola
with wood floors should be slightly less because the IH will be less.

Regards,

Bob Witt


--- In STMFC@..., "Eric" <eric@...> wrote:

Thanks Dennis. Not long after I posted I realized the ORER GK
designation is probably the last thing to be wrong on an ORER freight
car listing.

I'll probably follow the KD brake system mounting on the USRA
composite gondolas for this Accurail conversion. From the prototype
image it seems like the KD brake cylinder is in a different location
than the position on the Accurail model as it should be adjacent to the
easily seen air tank. Here's the link to the buider's image:
http://www.hansmanns.org/images/wandle_52500_gondola_web.jpg

I'm leaning towards a wood floor for the ever cheap Wheeling.

Eric


Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX


--- In STMFC@..., Dennis Storzek destorzek@ wrote:
>
> Did these W&LE 52000-53899 gondolas have drop bottoms?

You answered that question above... If it was classed GK, it had a
solid floor. Solid floor meant no doors.

> If so, were the floors wood or steel?

That's a more difficult question, and impossible to answer from the
data in the ORER listing.

As to brake arrangement, I should think lacking any more detailed
information about the underframe, the brake cylinder / lever / rod
part included with the kit should be as close as anything. Just
substitute the reservoir and triple valve from a K brake set,
mounting them to brackets between the framing so the end up where
they appear on the photo.

Dennis
Dennis Storzek


Re: Transporting Hogs On The UP

Douglas Harding
 

Thanks Guy. That adds to my knowledge of operations related to stockcars.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: North American RRing in Western Europe

geodyssey <riverob@...>
 

I wish I could go! Looks like a massive event. Lots of great craftsmanship evident in the (large) flyer. The Joshua trees on page 23 & linked how-to article should be viewed by all UP, ATSF, & SP modelers. Thanks...

Rob Simpson

--- In STMFC@..., "lnbill" <fgexbill@...> wrote:

A new friend in Germany sent me the link to the official guide for the American Railroading Convention in October in Adliswil, Switzerland. Members of this list might enjoys seeing what is going on there.

Here is the link: http://www.trainmaster.ch/XCV-15-Guide.pdf

Allow some time for it to download. Enjoy!

Bill Welch


Owners of 10,000 gallon 2 and 3 dome tankcars

gary laakso
 

W&R Enterprises worked with Microscale to develope the decals for the high running board ACF 10,000 tank cars. The illustrations in 87-966 show that The Texas Company and The Southwestern Refining Company had 3 dome cars.

The W&R flyer for the 10,000 gallon cars noted that Texaco had one dome, two dome and three dome versions of these cars.

gary laakso
south of Mike Brock


Look at these wild Couplers!

gary laakso
 


Re: Wheeling steel gondola questions

Eric Hansmann
 

Thanks Dennis. Not long after I posted I realized the ORER GK designation is probably the last thing to be wrong on an ORER freight car listing.

I'll probably follow the KD brake system mounting on the USRA composite gondolas for this Accurail conversion. From the prototype image it seems like the KD brake cylinder is in a different location than the position on the Accurail model as it should be adjacent to the easily seen air tank. Here's the link to the buider's image:
http://www.hansmanns.org/images/wandle_52500_gondola_web.jpg

I'm leaning towards a wood floor for the ever cheap Wheeling.

Eric


Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX

--- In STMFC@..., Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...> wrote:
>
> Did these W&LE 52000-53899 gondolas have drop bottoms?

You answered that question above... If it was classed GK, it had a
solid floor. Solid floor meant no doors.

> If so, were the floors wood or steel?

That's a more difficult question, and impossible to answer from the
data in the ORER listing.

As to brake arrangement, I should think lacking any more detailed
information about the underframe, the brake cylinder / lever / rod
part included with the kit should be as close as anything. Just
substitute the reservoir and triple valve from a K brake set,
mounting them to brackets between the framing so the end up where
they appear on the photo.

Dennis
Dennis Storzek


Re: Wheeling steel gondola questions [leads to completion of kit-bash Triple Play]

Eric Hansmann
 

Greetings Dave!

I wish I could point you to prototype images of the later 1930s and through the 1940s.

I think Cyril Durrenberger had an article in Model Railroader concerning a W&LE gondola conversion from a Tyco/Mantua car. I don't have the article, but there may be a later image of the Wheeling's 52000-53899 gondolas in that article. It starts on page 96 of the January 1987 Model Railroader. This may have also been reprinted in Kalmbach's "Freight Car Projects and Ideas".

I checked the Fallen Flags site and there was nothing there for these gondolas. Same for the NMRA photo archive.

I've got an in-service image of two of these gondolas, but the photo was taken in the early 1930s and there is so much weathering that the lettering is difficult to comprehend. I think they are still in original lettering.

I've always got my eyes open for pre-Depression freight cars in the post-WWII era. I'll pass along anything that is spotted.

Eric


Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX

--- In STMFC@..., "ealabhan0" <ealabhan0@...> wrote:


Gentlemen, unfortunate that these interesting gondolas didn't last into
my late-'50s modeling era; still, I'm interested in doing one up for my
1949 steam display train. Anyone have a photo link to one of these gons
in the '40s showing the lettering they wore at the end of their service
lives? I'd rather decal from a photo than just apply a generic WLE
roadname and simplified data.

Appreciate any assistance, Dave Sieber, Reno NV


Re: Transporting Hogs On The UP

John Barry
 

As long as the same animals are using the car.

Shippers did not want their stock contaminated by soiled bedding from another stock owner. According to a clinc that Steve Sandifer presented at teh ATSFRRH&MS convention this summer, it was typical for cars to wait and reload their stock to mimimize the labor and materials used for a given shipment.

John Barry

--- In STMFC@..., Guy Wilber <guycwilber@...> wrote:




Doug Harding wrote:

"Now for some questions:

1) Was the paper on the inside or outside of the car? I would speculate
the outside, otherwise the hogs would rip it off and harm themselves with
whatever fastener was used to hold the paper in place (staples?)."


I can't imagine the task of papering the outside of a single sheathed car and would tend to believe the cars were lined on the inside. Additionally, covering up the reporting marks and car data would enter into the equation. From AAR Freight Claims Bulletin No. 1110 (October of 1951); "During periods of stormy or severe cold weather the side of the car should be lined (up to four feet or more in height) with heavy paper, or battened in order to provide additional protection. This prevents a draft on the animals and raises the temperature of the car considerably." I would interpret "lined" as being inside the car."



"2) Would the paper have been similar to the paper later used in grain
doors? Or was it felt paper, ie 15lb rolled roofing paper, which was
commonly used to weather proof buildings, esp before siding was installed."


Very similar to the heavy rolled paper which was used for lining and padding cars far in advance of paper grain doors. Paper grain doors were double layered with steel banding embedded between the layers. There is little chance that roofing felt was used inside a stock car.


"3) Did they use slats or lath to keep the paper in place?"


Lath may have been used, the paper could have been stapled, nailed with felt or umbrella nails or, as was highly recommended by the early 1950s for paper lining, it could have been taped.



"5) Why reuse the same cars? If they can paper one car, they can paper
any car."


Why go to the added expense of papering more cars when you already had enough to serve the purpose? Again, it wasn't a requirement to clean and re-bed stock cars after each unloading.


Guy Wilber
Sparks, Nevada













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Northeastern Fallen Flags RPM event

Eric Hansmann
 

Greetings all! It's time to announce another prototype modeler meet!



Northeastern Fallen Flags Prototype Modelers Meet
Saturday, September 29, 2012
9 AM to 6 PM at the Ted Blum 4-H Center
310 Milltown Road
Bridgewater, NJ 08807



Registration is only $20.00 in advance, or $25.00 the day of the event.

The spacious Ted Blum 4-H Center is located just off of NJ Route 202, and
easily accessible from Interstates 78 and 287.



Your registration includes a hot Italian Lunch buffet. The local 4-H club
will be selling a breakfast staples through the morning, while soft drinks
and coffee will be available throughout the day for a small donation.

It will be a full day of presentations, displays of completed and in-process
models, vendors, a limited "Tracky Tray" auction (please donate new items,
proceeds benefit 4-H), a great lunch and a chance for modelers to get
together for discussion and learning. The model display is the heart of any
RPM meet, so bring your work to show around. Plenty of tables will be set to
a comfortable viewing height.

Currently scheduled presenters include:

Craig Bisgeier, Ted DiIorio, Steve Funaro, Mike McCann, Mike McNamara, Dave
Messer, Ron Parisi, Bill Schaumburg and more.

The current vendor line-up includes:
Amesville Shops - cast resin freight car kits
Bethlehem Car Works - car kits and parts
Bob's Photos - Prototype photo prints and books
Funaro & Camerlengo - cast resin freight car kits
Shortline Hobbies - kits, tools, supplies, etc
Rocket Express - cast resin freight car kits

Thoroughbred Railroad Models - Custom models of NS and predecessor railroads

Please visit our website at http://www.hansmanns.org/neff_rpm/ for
registration forms, as well as lodging and location details.

Join our Facebook page at http://tinyurl.com/2cgcroh to keep up with the
latest news.

If you have a presentation or clinic you would like to show, or would like
to
inquire about vending, please contact us at neffrpm@...
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/neffrpm/post?postID=f2C-Lu4DhjNDzK5V3wk2xJOnJ
7xIZKGPxwvenhCrv0inatF9gC-PogN8_EmzKmdWIYVVrYv_AEWa5w> .

Thanks and we hope to see you there!



Jim, Ralph, Eric, Jan, Ted, Craig and Dave


Re: USATC frieght cars

Hobi Point
 


Re: USATC frieght cars

railsnw@frontier.com <railsnw@...>
 

The kit cars were made during WW2. In the book United States Military Railway Service by Don DeNevi and Bob Hall are photos of kit box cars being assembled in England (photo dated 10-17-44)and a string of the two dome tank cars (photo dated 4-7-44). Also in the book Railroading in Eighteen Countries by Carl Gray who was Director General of the U.S. Military Railway Service from 1942 to 1945 their is a list of 10 responsibilities of the MRS units and number 6 was "Actual construction of prefabricated boxcars, flatcars and Gondolas, which had been shipped to the United Kingdom for erection".

Richard Wilkens

--- In STMFC@..., "Gene" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:

Bruce,
Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the kit box cars, gondolas, flat cars and tank car come along AFTER World War Two in anticipation of the next war in Europe?

Quite a few years ago I had the opportunity to make a CAD drawing of the tank car. TM (Technical Manual) 55-2220-201-35 includes foldout drawings for the box car, high & low side gons but not the tank car since that came already assembled. (Drawings for the flat car are included since the flat was simply the gon or box without sides.

Gene Green

--- In STMFC@..., "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@> wrote:

John,

The tank cars and "kit" boxcars have come up several times on this list, although particulars are not very detailed. The tank cars were single compartment two dome tanks to provide enough expansion space within the confines of tight european clearances. Photo are available in several books.


Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/


"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

__

/ &#92;

__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________

|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |

| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||

|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|

| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0



On Aug 23, 2012, at 9:44 PM, John Barry wrote:

I have a friend in the UK who is wondering about the rolling stock shipped to the UK and France to support the Allied effort to liberate the continent during WWII. Does any one have information on the design, construction and builders for the tank, flat, gondola, and box cars that were used by the Military Railway Service?

John Barry

ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights
Cotati, CA




Re: Transporting Hogs On The UP

Guy Wilber
 

Doug Harding wrote:

"Now for some questions:

1) Was the paper on the inside or outside of the car? I would speculate
the outside, otherwise the hogs would rip it off and harm themselves with
whatever fastener was used to hold the paper in place (staples?)."


I can't imagine the task of papering the outside of a single sheathed car and would tend to believe the cars were lined on the inside. Additionally, covering up the reporting marks and car data would enter into the equation. From AAR Freight Claims Bulletin No. 1110 (October of 1951); "During periods of stormy or severe cold weather the side of the car should be lined (up to four feet or more in height) with heavy paper, or battened in order to provide additional protection. This prevents a draft on the animals and raises the temperature of the car considerably." I would interpret "lined" as being inside the car."



"2) Would the paper have been similar to the paper later used in grain
doors? Or was it felt paper, ie 15lb rolled roofing paper, which was
commonly used to weather proof buildings, esp before siding was installed."


Very similar to the heavy rolled paper which was used for lining and padding cars far in advance of paper grain doors. Paper grain doors were double layered with steel banding embedded between the layers. There is little chance that roofing felt was used inside a stock car.


"3) Did they use slats or lath to keep the paper in place?"


Lath may have been used, the paper could have been stapled, nailed with felt or umbrella nails or, as was highly recommended by the early 1950s for paper lining, it could have been taped.



"5) Why reuse the same cars? If they can paper one car, they can paper
any car."


Why go to the added expense of papering more cars when you already had enough to serve the purpose? Again, it wasn't a requirement to clean and re-bed stock cars after each unloading.


Guy Wilber
Sparks, Nevada













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: USATC frieght cars

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Gene" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:

Bruce,
Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the kit box cars, gondolas, flat cars and tank car come along AFTER World War Two in anticipation of the next war in Europe?
There have been successive groups of US built cars for war duty in Europe; The Haskell & Barker drawing files were full of drawings for various WWI cars.

The cars that most of us here are familiar with are the cold war era knock-down car "kits" because most of them never left the states. Groups have been surplused at various times, and made their way to tourist railways, or industries where the bodies were used as pre-fab storage sheds. Occasionally someone will get excited because they think they've found an "olde time" freightcar, but in reality these cars were never used in the US.

Dennis


10,000 gallon 2 or 3 dome MCB Class II high walkway tank cars

J. Craig Whitcomb
 

Does anyone know of a prototype for the W & R Enterprises MCB Class II, 10,000 gallon, high walkway two dome and three dome tank cars? All that I have seen in multiple compartment tank cars are 8,000 gallon cars.

If so, any ideas on numbers?

thanks

Jan Whitcomb


Re: Wheeling steel gondola questions [leads to completion of kit-bash Triple Play]

David Sieber
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Eric Hansmann" <eric@...> wrote: I am
happy to expose a prototype possibility for the Accurail gondola, but I
must add uncertainty for cars in service beyond 1950 ... BTW, fine
decals representing the as-built lettering for these W&LE gondola were
recently offered by Gerry Glow.

and Ray Breyer wrote: None of these cars made it into NKP paint. The
class as a whole stayed intact into the Depression years, but the K
brake ban doomed them.

Gentlemen, unfortunate that these interesting gondolas didn't last into
my late-'50s modeling era; still, I'm interested in doing one up for my
1949 steam display train. Anyone have a photo link to one of these gons
in the '40s showing the lettering they wore at the end of their service
lives? I'd rather decal from a photo than just apply a generic WLE
roadname and simplified data.

Appreciate any assistance, Dave Sieber, Reno NV

84681 - 84700 of 195354