Date   

Re: Beginning of RED cabooses

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:
I'm going to have to check my Soo caboose roster data when I get home and see if the Soo had any contenders for oldest caboose in service. The interesting thing about cabooses is, unless they get turned into splinters, they really don't wear out, so they could seemingly last forever with minimal rebuilding, at least until the Feds got involved with age limits on equipment.
Lots of railroads, including SP, did add steel center sills to many old cabooses. I don't know if that was a requirement or common sense <g>. SP had to deal with a series of restrictions placed by the California Public Utilities Commission (originally the Railroad Commission), which limited use of solid-bearing trucks, and cabooses lacking toilets or certain safety features such as cupola seat improvements. Those cars could be used outside of California, however. SP chose to scrap a lot of old but serviceable cars in the 1959 to 1965 period rather than perform upgrades.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Wood Beam Waycar Trucks

Scott Pitzer
 

And retired just two years before a man orbited the earth.
Scott Pitzer

On Aug 27, 2012, at 10:56 AM, Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:

Tony Thompson wrote:
"There were SP cabooses with 90-year service lives. A number are identified in
my

book on SP cabooses. For example, no. 20, built in 1871, was not retired until
1959, and there were others."

To put this in perspective, No. 20 was built two years after Promontory.

Ben Hom


Re: Beginning of RED cabooses

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Dennis Storzek wrote:
Back in the days of natural pigments, bright red was expensive, certainly more expensive than iron oxide as a pigment. Thus, bright paint on the caboose fleet was hard to justify. In those days men with flags and torpedoes were supposed to keep trains apart. The color of the caboose had very little to do with it. If the caboose was close enough to the approaching train that the engineer could see what color it was, it was already kindling.
I would tend to agree. But in the case of SP adopting the orange caboose ends (after trying silver and red), it was definitely regarded as a safety and visibility issue (I have copies of the internal memos), so maybe there WAS some valid role to the color choice.
I think it's a matter of, once the cost of brightly colored pigments came in line with other synthetic pigments, there was no reason not to do it, in the name of safety, progressiveness, whatever. Little DSS&A started with the yellow ends on mineral red cars during the fifties, and the yellow ends spread to the Soo fleet after the merger in 1961.

The really effective approach would have been Scotch-Lite scare stripes like some roads used, but of course, these cost money. :-)

I'm going to have to check my Soo caboose roster data when I get home and see if the Soo had any contenders for oldest caboose in service. The interesting thing about cabooses is, unless they get turned into splinters, they really don't wear out, so they could seemingly last forever with minimal rebuilding, at least until the Feds got involved with age limits on equipment.

Dennis


Re: Central Valley caboose cupolas

john.allyn@...
 

However, a lot of cupola castings are out there.  The "kit" included acetate glass, sandpaper for the roof, and a front and back marker light, all of which are easily replicated. 


John B. Allyn

----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Harding" <doug.harding@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 2:20:46 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Central Valley caboose cupolas

 




Steve, I believe those kits have been out of production for years, if not
decades. Which means, Ebay, estate sales, dusty back shelves in an old hobby
shop, or a buddy's unbuilt stash (if he will let you look).

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Central Valley caboose cupolas

Douglas Harding
 

Steve, I believe those kits have been out of production for years, if not
decades. Which means, Ebay, estate sales, dusty back shelves in an old hobby
shop, or a buddy's unbuilt stash (if he will let you look).



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: W&LE steel gon quest - now SS box car

Bill Welch
 

Thanks Eric

Let hope Andrew Dahm is taking note. I had the feeling from Al Westerfield that he had info the cars. I that is the case maybe Andrew will think about these cars for his line. It is kind of funky.

I have an end shot in my collection I think.
Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., "Eric" <eric@...> wrote:

Bill,

Here's some info on this W&LE single sheathed cars.

27000-27999 : 1000 cars built by Western Car & Foundry. Single-sheathed wood construction with staggered 7-foot wide doors, Vulcan vertical corrugated metal ends, and straight centersills.

Sadly, I have a grand total of ONE image of these cars offline. It shows up in the background of a fascinating B&O Brunswick Yard image from about 1922-1924.

These W&LE box cars appear in several images in the W&LE archive at Cleveland State University. Here's an image noted as New Lead Stark Brick. Three of these unique Wheeling box cars can be seen here. One of the cars has a reweigh date of 4-31.

http://www.hansmanns.org/images/new_lead_stark_brick.jpg

The Wheeling is an odd duck of a prototype but it served some major industries through northern Ohio. I have not found any other railroad using a combination of similar single-sheathed box car design and hardware.

Eric


Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX


--- In STMFC@..., "lnbill" <fgexbill@> wrote:

I bugged Al Westerfield several times to do this car. Hard to see but note the ribs on the steel ends are vertical.


Re: Beginning of RED cabooses

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:
Back in the days of natural pigments, bright red was expensive, certainly more expensive than iron oxide as a pigment. Thus, bright paint on the caboose fleet was hard to justify. In those days men with flags and torpedoes were supposed to keep trains apart. The color of the caboose had very little to do with it. If the caboose was close enough to the approaching train that the engineer could see what color it was, it was already kindling.
I would tend to agree. But in the case of SP adopting the orange caboose ends (after trying silver and red), it was definitely regarded as a safety and visibility issue (I have copies of the internal memos), so maybe there WAS some valid role to the color choice.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: W&LE steel gon quest - now SS box car

Eric Hansmann
 

Bill,

Here's some info on this W&LE single sheathed cars.

27000-27999 : 1000 cars built by Western Car & Foundry. Single-sheathed wood construction with staggered 7-foot wide doors, Vulcan vertical corrugated metal ends, and straight centersills.

Sadly, I have a grand total of ONE image of these cars offline. It shows up in the background of a fascinating B&O Brunswick Yard image from about 1922-1924.

These W&LE box cars appear in several images in the W&LE archive at Cleveland State University. Here's an image noted as New Lead Stark Brick. Three of these unique Wheeling box cars can be seen here. One of the cars has a reweigh date of 4-31.

http://www.hansmanns.org/images/new_lead_stark_brick.jpg

The Wheeling is an odd duck of a prototype but it served some major industries through northern Ohio. I have not found any other railroad using a combination of similar single-sheathed box car design and hardware.

Eric


Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX

--- In STMFC@..., "lnbill" <fgexbill@...> wrote:

I bugged Al Westerfield several times to do this car. Hard to see but note the ribs on the steel ends are vertical.


Re: Beginning of RED cabooses

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

From: "Jim Betz" <jimbetz@...>

Many/most RRs converted to bright colors for their cabs before 1930.
--- In STMFC@..., timboconnor@... wrote:


huh? yeah, if by "most" you exclude PRR, NYC, SP, ATSF, UP, NP, MP, SOU, IC... and a few others.
The Soo Line was another of those roads that apparently used bright red on cabooses through the WWI era, then went to mineral red during the depression years. When things got better during the fifties, the bright red returned.

Back in the days of natural pigments, bright red was expensive, certainly more expensive than iron oxide as a pigment. Thus, bright paint on the caboose fleet was hard to justify. In those days men with flags and torpedoes were supposed to keep trains apart. The color of the caboose had very little to do with it. If the caboose was close enough to the approaching train that the engineer could see what color it was, it was already kindling.

Dennis


Re: Question regarding Sunshine Models

Greg Bartek
 

Group,

Thanks for all of your input & advice. As was stated by another gentleman, I do not mind waiting for these kits as they are so unique. My concern was that it may have been lost in the shuffle. I will be waiting.... patiently.

Regards, Greg Bartek

--- In STMFC@..., "Greg" <sgaab@...> wrote:

Group,

I've searched the previous posts on this forum and I was made aware of the downsizing at Sunshine Models. My question being; What is an average (reasonable) waiting time for delivery of a kit? I had placed an order for two kits (both #92.8) on March 22 of this year and as best as I can determine, my check has not been cashed. Is there any way to inquire as to the status of my order? I really would like these kits since they are so unique and unavailable by any other manufacturer. Thanks in advance for any help.

Greg Bartek


W&LE steel gondolas of 1921 - more images

Eric Hansmann
 

As the W&LE gondola questions have stirred some interest, I've posted images
of two additional Wheeling steel gondolas from the 52000-53899 series. These
were built in 1921 by Standard Steel. The W&LE also received 100 of the same
cars in the R6000-R6099 series. I have not seen any images of these
gondolas, but I suspect they may have been in captured service.

These two images were taken from a larger image noted as Berger Switch br
0.48. The image is from the W&LE archives in the special collections of the
Michael Schwartz Library at Cleveland State University in Cleveland, Ohio. I
scanned a number of images at a high resolution and was able to tweak these
pull-outs for more clarity. I believe the image documents the bridge, but
I'm more interested in the five gondolas sitting there. Four seem to be from
the W&LE 52000-53899 series, while one is a USRA composite gondola from the
W&LE 51000-51999 series. Here's the original image:

http://www.hansmanns.org/images/berger_switch_br_0.48.jpg

The image is undated, but the barest of reweigh dates can be detected on the
USRA gondola. It seems to be a 1929 date, which would mean all the easily
identified freight cars here would be about ten years old. Here are close
ups of two W&LE steel gondolas in the image.

http://www.hansmanns.org/images/wle_52959_GK_berger-switch.jpg

http://www.hansmanns.org/images/wle_53245_GK_berger-switch.jpg

Two other similar gondolas sit at each end of the image, but a full car
number is difficult to determine on the far right gondola. In any event,
here is a string of well used freight cars with original lettering that can
hardly be read. The steel gondolas seem to have lost much of their paint
since coming into service.

I suspect later gondolas acquired by the W&LE would endure a similar loss of
paint, so these images may offer some guidance.

Eric





Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX


Re: Beginning of RED cabooses

Tim O'Connor
 

huh? yeah, if by "most" you exclude PRR, NYC, SP, ATSF, UP, NP, MP, SOU, IC... and a few others.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Betz" <jimbetz@...>

Many/most RRs converted to bright colors for their cabs before 1930.


Re: Wood Beam Waycar Trucks

Benjamin Hom
 

Tony Thompson wrote:
"There were SP cabooses with 90-year service lives. A number are identified in
my

book on SP cabooses. For example, no. 20, built in 1871, was not retired until
1959, and there were others."

To put this in perspective, No. 20 was built two years after Promontory.


Ben Hom


NEW HAVEN's 36' Rebuilt Boxcars

erict1361 <erict1361@...>
 

I have a question on New Haven's 36 Foot Re built box cars. Of the quantity that were rebuilt in the late 1920's, were there more cars with the Re enforced Wood ends or with the Steel Dreadnaught ends re-built? When scrapping began after WW II, were the Wood end cars scrapped first or both Wood ended and Dreadnaught ended cars scrapped together? I am assuming that these cars were all gone from any revenue service use, by 1953 since I read that there were only 41 cars left in 1950 and none that received AB brakes?

Thanks,

Eric Thur


Re: Wood Beam Waycar Trucks

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Charlie Vlk wrote:
I haven't been able to nail down the first use of the No.7 truck beyond a few builders photos of waycars from the mid-1880s, but some of the Q Wood
Waycars had built dates going back to 1868.and were still in service behind U33s and SD45s. How much of the original car was left is unknown..all had
steel underframes applied around 1905 and there probably was an earlier style of truck applied to the older cars as built..but it is a remarkable service history probably unmatched on any other railroad. Anybody know of any other successful, long-lived design cars?
There were SP cabooses with 90-year service lives. A number are identified in my book on SP cabooses. For example, no. 20, built in 1871, was not retired until 1959, and there were others.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Central Valley caboose cupolas

Steven D Johnson
 

I should clarify.I am looking for the cupola kits only. They were offered
as separate detail parts. I believe they came with a marker light for the
cupola roof and window "glass."



Steve Johnson





From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Steven D Johnson
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 12:09 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Central Valley caboose cupolas





Does anyone know where I can obtain some of the Central Valley "Old Time"
caboose cupola kits?

Thanks,

Steve Johnson


Central Valley caboose cupolas

Steven D Johnson
 

Does anyone know where I can obtain some of the Central Valley "Old Time"
caboose cupola kits?



Thanks,



Steve Johnson


Re: Look at these wild Couplers!

Charlie Vlk
 

What is the story on the listings that do not have a thumbnail but only a link to text? There are a number of CB&Q photos (Gas Electrics) that I would like to see.

Charlie Vlk


This same page in the GN/NP archives contain construction pictures of a Northern Pacific express reefer and detailed pictures of cranes and pile drivers. These couplers are wild!

http://www.gn-npjointarchive.org/Lists/NP_Gene_Hawk_Photos/DispForm.aspx?ID=577 <http://www.gn-npjointarchive.org/Lists/NP_Gene_Hawk_Photos/DispForm.aspx?ID=577&Source=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Egn%2Dnpjointarchive%2Eorg%2FLists%2FNP%5FGene%5FHawk%5FPhotos%2FStandard%2520View%2Easpx%3FPaged%3DTRUE%26p%5FTitle%3DHawkET%255f0399%26p%5FID%3D399%26PageFirstRow%3D401%26%26View%3D%7BB6926F21%2DC581%2D421D%2DADE2%2DC7717C8B508C%7D&ContentTypeId=0x010061EADD8B4BA1AF47AF58B3D8F0376B85> &Source=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Egn%2Dnpjointarchive%2Eorg%2FLists%2FNP%5FGene%5FHawk%5FPhotos%2FStandard%2520View%2Easpx%3FPaged%3DTRUE%26p%5FTitle%3DHawkET%255f0399%26p%5FID%3D399%26PageFirstRow%3D401%26%26View%3D%7BB6926F21%2DC581%2D421D%2DADE2%2DC7717C8B508C%7D&ContentTypeId=0x010061EADD8B4BA1AF47AF58B3D8F0376B85


Re: NKP War Emrgency boxcar...accurate lettering

Jim Wolf
 

Hi Ray,
I'm out of town until Tuesday; when I return home I'll send you a scan of one of the photos and (hopefully) find the citation for the publication where I saw the other image.
Take care,
Jim Wolf

--- In STMFC@..., Ray Breyer <rtbsvrr69@...> wrote:

There has been some parallel discussion on either this list or a NKP list about the style of the "R" in "Nickel Plate Road"
slogan that graced these cars at the upper right of the side as you faced he car.  There is a canard that the curved "R" was
"always" used on these cars, even when the NKP changed to the straight "R" in "Road" in 1947-48.
Photographic images have surfaced indicating that the NKP did indeed use a straight "R" when repainting these cars.
Apparently, for some reason these cars did not receive the straight "R" as quickly as their steel counterparts, but they
did indeed receive them.
Jim Wolf

Really? I'd like to see those photos Jim. I'm firmly in the "swing tail R only" camp, simply because the only photos that I have of these cars show that style of R well into the 1970s. In fact, of the nine cars that I have photos of, only one of the coke car conversions has the "large R" that most think is typical for the NKP. And I don't count the coke cars as "really" being one of these types of boxcars.

Regards,
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: steamfreightcars.com website offline

Bill Schneider
 

Peter,

The URL has changed, now http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/index.html

Bill Schneider

From: peteraue
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 12:35 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] steamfreightcars.com website offline


The steamfreightcars.com website seems to be offline. A lot of very good material is no longer accessable. Does anybody know what is going on? What can to done to rescue the good contents of that site?
Peter Aue

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