Date   

Re: L&N and NKP gons and flat

Steven D Johnson
 

Chad,



Is your L&N gondola based on the 25800-25999 series cars built by Mt. Vernon
Car Mfg. Co. in 1928?



Steve Johnson





From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Chad
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 9:31 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: L&N and NKP gons and flat





Thanks, Bill
These are from your suggestion. I think there was a NKP flat car made from
these. Still looking for conformation. There were some flats listed that
were 50'9".
Also, I added photos of the NKP. Should be able to get it painted over the
weekend.
Chad Boas

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "lnbill"
<fgexbill@...> wrote:

Okay, on 3 let's all chant Chad--Chad--Chad--you're the man--Chad--...

One, two, ...

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Chad"
<chadboas@> wrote:

All,
The next round of kits will be the wood side gons for L&N and NKP.
The L&N is a 46'9" and can be either a flat car or can be ordered with
the sides parts. The NKP is a 50'9" wood side gon. The kits will include the
Red Caboose pockets for the wood sides.
I have added a file called L&N and NKP gons and flat. The L&N car is
there and I am working on getting a picture of the NKP.
I will have these cars avalible for Naperville.
Contact me off list for more information.
Thanks, Chad Boas


Re: L&N and NKP gons and flat

Chad Boas
 

Thanks, Bill
These are from your suggestion. I think there was a NKP flat car made from these. Still looking for conformation. There were some flats listed that were 50'9".
Also, I added photos of the NKP. Should be able to get it painted over the weekend.
Chad Boas

--- In STMFC@..., "lnbill" <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Okay, on 3 let's all chant Chad--Chad--Chad--you're the man--Chad--...

One, two, ...

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., "Chad" <chadboas@> wrote:

All,
The next round of kits will be the wood side gons for L&N and NKP.
The L&N is a 46'9" and can be either a flat car or can be ordered with the sides parts. The NKP is a 50'9" wood side gon. The kits will include the Red Caboose pockets for the wood sides.
I have added a file called L&N and NKP gons and flat. The L&N car is there and I am working on getting a picture of the NKP.
I will have these cars avalible for Naperville.
Contact me off list for more information.
Thanks, Chad Boas


Re: L&N and NKP gons and flat

Bill Welch
 

Okay, on 3 let's all chant Chad--Chad--Chad--you're the man--Chad--...

One, two, ...

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., "Chad" <chadboas@...> wrote:

All,
The next round of kits will be the wood side gons for L&N and NKP.
The L&N is a 46'9" and can be either a flat car or can be ordered with the sides parts. The NKP is a 50'9" wood side gon. The kits will include the Red Caboose pockets for the wood sides.
I have added a file called L&N and NKP gons and flat. The L&N car is there and I am working on getting a picture of the NKP.
I will have these cars avalible for Naperville.
Contact me off list for more information.
Thanks, Chad Boas


L&N and NKP gons and flat

Chad Boas
 

All,
The next round of kits will be the wood side gons for L&N and NKP.
The L&N is a 46'9" and can be either a flat car or can be ordered with the sides parts. The NKP is a 50'9" wood side gon. The kits will include the Red Caboose pockets for the wood sides.
I have added a file called L&N and NKP gons and flat. The L&N car is there and I am working on getting a picture of the NKP.
I will have these cars avalible for Naperville.
Contact me off list for more information.
Thanks, Chad Boas


Re: Another Shapeways report

devansprr
 

--- In STMFC@..., "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote:

Tom's recent round of test projects prompted me to send my L-2 passenger car triple valve out again...

Tom and I seem to be taking opposite tacks on this... Tom is looking to learn the limitations, so as to be able to design usable parts/patterns within those limitations. I think with Shapeways, he's found that build orientation is important, and if you can connive to have them use your preferred orientation, you can get usable flat parts. The problem is, there's lots of ways to get flat parts, photo etching, for one, and photo etching brings the added advantage of doing some creative folding to produce 3-D objects. Of course, Shapeways can be considerably cheaper than etching, especially for one-off parts.

I, on the other hand, want to test the usefulness of the process as a sort of "universal modeling medium" to produce those needed parts that just can't be made easily by any process... that's essentially why they aren't made. My triple valve fits this description; it's small, no, downright tiny, has almost no flat surfaces, and has mechanical features in multiple orientations, which would preclude simple injection molding even if I wanted to cut a simple cavity. This is not a simple part, but it shares these restraints with a variety of hardware parts; door hardware, hand brake housings, truck journals and spring packages... all the little details, many of which we would like to combine with a larger object, such as the door hardware integral with the door, or carside.

Anyway, here's a link to a set of photos of the project to this point; a photo of the prototype, some screen shots of my solid model, and photos of the part I had printed a couple years ago, and now from Shapeways.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25967611@N04/sets/72157623125645997/

This result is better than last time, to the point where I'll probably use them if nothing better comes along before I get back to the project they're intended for. I'm not happy with the surface, but have seen enough dirt caked underbody equipment to justify the lack of precise surfaces in this application. The problem is, once you start working with computer modeling, you realize how simplified the other parts are. I would love to model a better detailed, correctly sized brake cylinder to go along with this valve, and it occurs to me that it would be really cool to also include the branch pipe with its dirt collector and cut-out cock. Problem is, I'm not willing to build models that look like they were done by Georges Seurat, where solid surfaces dissolve into thousands of little dots.

Several people have been a bit down on Shapeways, mentioning broken parts. Meanwhile, Shapeways has apparently just revised their minimum cross section requirements upward, obviously in an attempt not be responsible for failures when designers attempt to push the envelope. The problem I'm seeing, however, doesn't relate to minimum cross section (OK, so I can't include the brake pipe) but rather to layer thickness and surface resolution. The various machines I've researched that have a build envelope the size that Shapeways offers have a minimum layer thickness of 50 microns... essentially .002". Some systems are now claiming 27 microns, a bit over .001", but have build envelopes of only about one cubic inch. The problem is, .002" is clearly visible on an HO scale part; I've used that dimension for lap seems (although I prefer .003", to be sure it doesn't get filled with paint). I'm not sure that .001" is going to be much of an improvement. When the systems get down to 10 micron layers, I think we'll have something. I don't see why it isn't possible; I doubt 2-D printers lay down much more ink than that, but build time, and cost, is going to go up by a corresponding amount.

It will be interesting to see what the next couple of years brings.

Dennis
Dennis,

Many thanks for the easy to understand report!

Looking at the shapeway part on flikr, I confess to being a little confused. On Tom's parts, I felt one could detect the orientation of the build layers. But on your triple valve, I can not spot a layering effect, instead the surface just seems to be "noisy".

I am wondering if a barrel tumbler/polisher technique might help smooth the surfaces of a three dimensional part? Start out with surface features a little oversized, and let the polishing medium remove the "noisy" surface features. In place of a tumbler, I wonder if a medium-thick paste of baking soda and water, in a small tight container with the part, might be effective if it was immersed in an ultrasonic cleaner? Kind of a mini-polisher.

Probably a crazy idea, but for 3D parts with all of the detail, it may not be vitally important that the desired features be perfectly replicated - as you noted about underbody grime. Outside of very close examination, what is more important - the suggestion of six hex nuts on the valve cap with the adjacent surfaces looking relatively smooth, or six perfectly formed hex nuts with the adjacent surface covered in warts?

But a very impressive effort and improvement over the old part - looks like a little more patience may be in order.

Dave Evans


Re: Another Shapeways report

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., "pullmanboss" <pullmanboss@...> wrote:

I had Shapeways run two more parts with much finer detail and/or more complexity than the bolster pan reported previously. But first, this note - I know these are not freight car parts, but the STMFC is where the most intelligent discussion of Shapeways' processes is taking place. Also, I fear that if I take this to the Passenger Car List the discussion will focus on the parts and not on the process. Thanks for your forbearance.
Tom's recent round of test projects prompted me to send my L-2 passenger car triple valve out again...

Tom and I seem to be taking opposite tacks on this... Tom is looking to learn the limitations, so as to be able to design usable parts/patterns within those limitations. I think with Shapeways, he's found that build orientation is important, and if you can connive to have them use your preferred orientation, you can get usable flat parts. The problem is, there's lots of ways to get flat parts, photo etching, for one, and photo etching brings the added advantage of doing some creative folding to produce 3-D objects. Of course, Shapeways can be considerably cheaper than etching, especially for one-off parts.

I, on the other hand, want to test the usefulness of the process as a sort of "universal modeling medium" to produce those needed parts that just can't be made easily by any process... that's essentially why they aren't made. My triple valve fits this description; it's small, no, downright tiny, has almost no flat surfaces, and has mechanical features in multiple orientations, which would preclude simple injection molding even if I wanted to cut a simple cavity. This is not a simple part, but it shares these restraints with a variety of hardware parts; door hardware, hand brake housings, truck journals and spring packages... all the little details, many of which we would like to combine with a larger object, such as the door hardware integral with the door, or carside.

Anyway, here's a link to a set of photos of the project to this point; a photo of the prototype, some screen shots of my solid model, and photos of the part I had printed a couple years ago, and now from Shapeways.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25967611@N04/sets/72157623125645997/

This result is better than last time, to the point where I'll probably use them if nothing better comes along before I get back to the project they're intended for. I'm not happy with the surface, but have seen enough dirt caked underbody equipment to justify the lack of precise surfaces in this application. The problem is, once you start working with computer modeling, you realize how simplified the other parts are. I would love to model a better detailed, correctly sized brake cylinder to go along with this valve, and it occurs to me that it would be really cool to also include the branch pipe with its dirt collector and cut-out cock. Problem is, I'm not willing to build models that look like they were done by Georges Seurat, where solid surfaces dissolve into thousands of little dots.

Several people have been a bit down on Shapeways, mentioning broken parts. Meanwhile, Shapeways has apparently just revised their minimum cross section requirements upward, obviously in an attempt not be responsible for failures when designers attempt to push the envelope. The problem I'm seeing, however, doesn't relate to minimum cross section (OK, so I can't include the brake pipe) but rather to layer thickness and surface resolution. The various machines I've researched that have a build envelope the size that Shapeways offers have a minimum layer thickness of 50 microns... essentially .002". Some systems are now claiming 27 microns, a bit over .001", but have build envelopes of only about one cubic inch. The problem is, .002" is clearly visible on an HO scale part; I've used that dimension for lap seems (although I prefer .003", to be sure it doesn't get filled with paint). I'm not sure that .001" is going to be much of an improvement. When the systems get down to 10 micron layers, I think we'll have something. I don't see why it isn't possible; I doubt 2-D printers lay down much more ink than that, but build time, and cost, is going to go up by a corresponding amount.

It will be interesting to see what the next couple of years brings.

Dennis


Re: Klasing hand brake in HO in injection molded plastic

Tim O'Connor
 

Gene

Having built 20+ P2K Greenville gons, I have a small supply of leftover parts. Anyone
want some P2K drop-doors? (There are two sets in each kit.)

I think either Detail Associates or Details West makes a very nice lever hand brake, but
it may be too modern for the steam era. They are commonly applied on modern flat cars.

Tim O'Connor

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <bierglaeser@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 2:49:35 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Klasing hand brake in HO in injection molded plastic

Does Walthers make the parts sprue for the P2K Greenville gon available as a separate item?

The two hand brakes are a Klasing 700-ish thing and an extremely rare Ajax lever hand brake of which I have only seen one in more than 30 years of looking.

Gene Green


Re: Klasing hand brake in HO in injection molded plastic

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

Does Walthers make the parts sprue for the P2K Greenville gon available as a separate item?

The two hand brakes are a Klasing 700-ish thing and an extremely rare Ajax lever hand brake of which I have only seen one in more than 30 years of looking.

Gene Green


Re: Klasing hand brake in HO in injection molded plastic

Tim O'Connor
 

e.g. Proto 2000 Greenville gondola

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel McConnachie" <dmcconnachie@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 2:28:36 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Klasing hand brake in HO in injection molded plastic

Tim,

Who makes the lever style you mention in this post?

Thanks.

Daniel McConnachie
Retired Head of Music
Stouffville District Secondary School


________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <@timboconnor>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 12:59:34 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Klasing hand brake in HO in injection molded plastic




I want either/both of these :-)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/album/430366321/pic/655150238/view
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/album/430366321/pic/673940272/view

I think Red Caboose is very similar to this one for the Mather reefer:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/album/430366321/pic/850476263/view

The lever-style hand brakes would be nice but they're less important to me
as there are some 'stand in' versions on the market. Not to mention how delicate
they might be.

Tim O'

The Klasing folder in the photo section is finally populated. Would those
of you who have experienced a need for a Klasing hand brake in HO scale please
have a look and tell me which one you want?
Or are you after something not shown. There are other Klasing hand brakes but
I considered them much less likely to be desired.
Send your desire to me off list, please.
If there is a significant number of responses I will post the results.
Gene Green







------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Klasing hand brake in HO in injection molded plastic

Daniel McConnachie <dmcconnachie@...>
 

Tim, 

Who makes the lever style you mention in this post?

Thanks.
 
Daniel McConnachie
Retired Head of Music
Stouffville District Secondary School


________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <@timboconnor>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 12:59:34 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Klasing hand brake in HO in injection molded plastic


 

I want either/both of these :-)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/album/430366321/pic/655150238/view
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/album/430366321/pic/673940272/view

I think Red Caboose is very similar to this one for the Mather reefer:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/album/430366321/pic/850476263/view

The lever-style hand brakes would be nice but they're less important to me
as there are some 'stand in' versions on the market. Not to mention how delicate
they might be.

Tim O'

The Klasing folder in the photo section is finally populated. Would those
of you who have experienced a need for a Klasing hand brake in HO scale please
have a look and tell me which one you want?
Or are you after something not shown. There are other Klasing hand brakes but
I considered them much less likely to be desired.
Send your desire to me off list, please.
If there is a significant number of responses I will post the results.
Gene Green



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: New Look for F&C Website

Clark Propst
 

I noticed that awhile bacdk. Sure hope they'll show! Guess they cancelled at the St Louis show this past summer.
Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@..., "lnbill" <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Curiously, their show schedule does not include Naperville next week.

Bill welch

--- In STMFC@..., "erict1361" <erict1361@> wrote:

Funaro & Camerlengo's Website has an All New look, Function is basically the same, But now the Rail road Kit links work with Google Chrome.

You may want to check it out ?

www.fandckits.com

Eric Thur


Re: Klasing hand brake in HO in injection molded plastic

Bill Kelly
 

I would like to second Tim's :-) as these are also my picks.
Later,
Bill Kelly


Tim O' wrote:

I want either/both of these :-)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/album/430366321/pic/655150238/
view
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/album/430366321/pic/673940272/
view

snip<
____________________________________________________________
Woman is 53 But Looks 25
Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors...
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5078563f50570563f4c85st02vuc


Re: Klasing hand brake in HO in injection molded plastic

Tim O'Connor
 

I want either/both of these :-)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/album/430366321/pic/655150238/view
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/album/430366321/pic/673940272/view

I think Red Caboose is very similar to this one for the Mather reefer:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/album/430366321/pic/850476263/view

The lever-style hand brakes would be nice but they're less important to me
as there are some 'stand in' versions on the market. Not to mention how delicate
they might be.

Tim O'

The Klasing folder in the photo section is finally populated. Would those
> of you who have experienced a need for a Klasing hand brake in HO scale please
> have a look and tell me which one you want?
> Or are you after something not shown. There are other Klasing hand brakes but
> I considered them much less likely to be desired.
> Send your desire to me off list, please.
> If there is a significant number of responses I will post the results.
> Gene Green


Re: New Look for F&C Website

erict1361 <erict1361@...>
 

Bruce,

Sorry, my statement was too general, What I ment to say is that kits are still listed by, Scale, Rail Road Name, and Kit number, as the previous website does. In other words, there are no search options etc. added. The Plus is that it works with Browsers other than IE. The Functioning links to dealers are a plus also.

Eric Thur

--- In STMFC@..., "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@...> wrote:

Eric,

I beg to differ, the function is NOT the same... the new site actually WORKS! Excellent <VBG>


Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/


"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

__

/ &#92;

__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________

|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |

| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||

|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|

| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0



On Oct 12, 2012, at 9:10 AM, erict1361 wrote:

Funaro & Camerlengo's Website has an All New look, Function is basically the same, But now the Rail road Kit links work with Google Chrome.

You may want to check it out ?

www.fandckits.com<http://www.fandckits.com>

Eric Thur



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: New Look for F&C Website

Pierre <pierre.oliver@...>
 

And it works with Firefox now too!
Delightful.
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@..., "erict1361" <erict1361@...> wrote:

Funaro & Camerlengo's Website has an All New look, Function is basically the same, But now the Rail road Kit links work with Google Chrome.

You may want to check it out ?

www.fandckits.com

Eric Thur


Re: New Look for F&C Website

Bill Welch
 

Curiously, their show schedule does not include Naperville next week.

Bill welch

--- In STMFC@..., "erict1361" <erict1361@...> wrote:

Funaro & Camerlengo's Website has an All New look, Function is basically the same, But now the Rail road Kit links work with Google Chrome.

You may want to check it out ?

www.fandckits.com

Eric Thur


Re: Klasing hand brake in HO in injection molded plastic

Andy Laurent
 

Gene,
The 525-A looks like the "Klasing Handbrake" that folks were looking for.
Andy Laurent

--- In STMFC@..., "Gene" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:

The Klasing folder in the photo section is finally populated. Would those of you who have experienced a need for a Klasing hand brake in HO scale please have a look and tell me which one you want?

Or are you after something not shown. There are other Klasing hand brakes but I considered them much less likely to be desired.

Send your desire to me off list, please.

If there is a significant number of responses I will post the results.

Gene Green


Re: New Look for F&C Website

BRIAN PAUL EHNI <behni@...>
 

On Mac with Safari as well. FINALLY!

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: "Bruce F. Smith" <@smithbf>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Friday, October 12, 2012 9:25 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] New Look for F&C Website






Eric,

I beg to differ, the function is NOT the same... the new site actually
WORKS! Excellent <VBG>

Regards

Bruce

Bruce F. Smith

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

__

/ &#92;

__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________

|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |

| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||

|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|

| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0

On Oct 12, 2012, at 9:10 AM, erict1361 wrote:

Funaro & Camerlengo's Website has an All New look, Function is basically the
same, But now the Rail road Kit links work with Google Chrome.

You may want to check it out ?

www.fandckits.com<http://www.fandckits.com>

Eric Thur

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: New Look for F&C Website

Bruce Smith
 

Eric,

I beg to differ, the function is NOT the same... the new site actually WORKS! Excellent <VBG>


Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/


"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

__

/ &#92;

__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________

|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |

| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||

|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|

| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0

On Oct 12, 2012, at 9:10 AM, erict1361 wrote:

Funaro & Camerlengo's Website has an All New look, Function is basically the same, But now the Rail road Kit links work with Google Chrome.

You may want to check it out ?

www.fandckits.com<http://www.fandckits.com>

Eric Thur



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


New Look for F&C Website

erict1361 <erict1361@...>
 

Funaro & Camerlengo's Website has an All New look, Function is basically the same, But now the Rail road Kit links work with Google Chrome.

You may want to check it out ?

www.fandckits.com

Eric Thur