Date   

Re: L&N and NKP gons and flat--Who is doing the decala and what colors were these cars painted?

Brian Carlson
 

Chad I may have missed these but what NKP series are these 70000-70499? If so do you have the NKPHTS article on them?



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga, NY



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Chad
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012 8:15 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: L&N and NKP gons and flat--Who is doing the decala and what colors were these cars painted?





Jerry was working on them but I havent herd from him in a while. I am going to use the scrap box and some Microscale letters for the L&N and Microscale MC-4243 NKP Cabooses decale sheet has the small "NICKEL PLATE ROAD".
Chad Boas

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "gary laakso" <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:

Who is preparing the decals for these cars and what colors were they painted? I checked my sources and found nothing on either the gons or the flat cars.
However, I did complete (weights to be added tomorrow) 9 of Chad’s Great Northern flat cars and they are really well done.
gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
vasa0vasa@...







Re: Another Shapeways report

Robert kirkham
 

by the way, once approved the photos will be in the RP ladders folder in the photos section.


Rob Kirkham
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Rob Kirkham" <rdkirkham@...>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012 5:35 PM
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Another Shapeways report

I've posted a number of photos of my own recent experiments with 3d printing
(waiting for them to be approved). These were done by ADC (Advanced Design
Concepts) - but as far as I know they use the same machine and substance as
Shapeways. Overall I am quite happy with the parts I received.

The first photos show tank car underframes for CPR 389xxx series tank cars.
The cars looked a lot like the Athearn single dome tank (and also like an SP
prototype Tony Thompson has written about modelling). I've been muddling my
way through this project for a number of years, but this is the closest I've
come to an acceptable frame model. At this point the issues are in my
design errors - not the material or process used by ADC. that said, I can
see some grain in the part that may show through the paint. And the
particles that are fused to make the part do produce some "noise" when under
magnification. But for frame parts that will be largely hidden beneath
running boards and the tank itself, I think this is acceptable quality for
now.

The other part is an inverted Murphy end used on the CPR's 2975xx series
single sheathed automobile boxcars. The rest of the model is still in
process. Again one can see some waviness in the flat surfaces, and some
imperfections in the corrugations, but overall I think it is a satisfactory
starting point for the model. My photography isn't good enough to show the
rivets along the edges, but they are there too.

I've been using Bestine rubber cement thinner to clean the waxy stuff of the
parts with success so far. A few minutes in that stuff cleans them and
changes the parts from translucent to opaque white and cleans some of the
wax away.

One thing about ADC - they focus on your job so the parts are oriented as
you would like. The auto-box end was modelled laying on the interior side
of the model. Interesting that the view of the back shows more of the
printing texture. I assume that is the wax support - and "yes" it is far
more grainy than any other surface of the model.

By the way this ties into the other thread re the UP boxcars - as, for
example, I believe this process allows one to build the ends without hacking
up Tichy parts. Of course some of you are skilled enough that you don't
hack, but for those of us who do . . . .

Rob Kirkham

--------------------------------------------------
From: "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012 1:08 PM
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Another Shapeways report



--- In STMFC@..., "Rob Kirkham" <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

Curious about the preparation you did on this part before priming Dennis?
Just wondering whether any of the distortion might be the waxy support
material they use? Not that I'm getting completely clean surfaces
either,
but thought I'd ask.


Rob Kirkham
That's what I'm wondering, Rob. Hey, I don't have any inside track on
this, I just submitted my part file through the automated front end of the
web site, like anybody else. I would have thought they would have built
the part with the flat disk surface that makes the end of the valve facing
up, to give it the best quality, but apparently not. I actually submitted
a dozen of these, joined together on a "runner", and I think they built it
standing on end. It really doesn't matter, since the purpose of my test is
to see what kind of quality can be had on ALL of the surfaces. This is the
perfect part for a test, as far as I'm concerned, there is no "show face",
they are ALL equally important.

Let me address Dave's comment about "noise". It appears that the best
quality surface is the one that is "normal" to the print process, that is,
flat and parallel, like a sheet of paper relative to the print head of a
ink jet printer. These surfaces will be flat and smooth, as the face of
Tom's boxes are. The next best quality will be on surfaces that are
perpendicular to the normal, because each layer should end at the same
point. The problem is they don't; there are minute differences in both the
size and position of each dot of resin deposited, and the result is a
certain amount of surface noise. The next worst surfaces are going to be
those that are round, or at an angle to normal, because there is the
possibility that the edges of the layers will actually show.

I am now realizing that the process used by Shapewys has another pitfall;
the basic process can't build parts with overhangs, since there would be
nothing to support the first layer of resin that hangs past the previous
layer, so the process used by Shapeways builds a wax structure to support
this first layer. Unfortunately, it appears that the wax construction is
done at a considerably coarser resolution than the actual part, and any
surface built against the wax picks up this coarser resolution. Tom
pointed this out when discussing a unsuccessful earlier attempt of his,
and If I can borrow a link to his photo:

http://www.pullmanproject.com/Shapeways10.jpg

You can clearly see the striations where the part was built against the
wax supports that were needed to build the overhanging features. I believe
I'm seeing this same effect on the bottom angular surface of the bowl on
the bottom of my valve:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25967611@N04/8077677749/in/set-72157623125645997

I have no idea why they would degrade the resolution of the process by
using a coarser resolution for the support material, but it appears they
have.

I'm wondering if these fused disposition process (FDM) is ever going to
meet our needs. However, I see stereiolithography (SLA), where the part is
grown from liquid polymer in a tank, has considerably finer layer
resolution. Here's a video of the process. Scroll to the end to see the
finished parts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=l2SCrahu2fo

Asiga is a new low cost (relatively) entrant into the field, here is some
comments from their discussion forum:

====================================
Our system has two main factors that affect build quality of the parts,
these are listed below:

1. Image Resolution
This refers to the size of the pixel in the exposed image. The Pico and
Pico Plus39 have a 39 micron pixel size, the Plus33 has a 33 microns pixel
and the Plus27 a 27 microns pixel. The smaller the pixel the sharper the
exposed image and the higher quality surface finish and detail resolution.

2. Layer Thickness
The thinner the print layer, the less visible the stepping. Our range of
printers have presets from 25 microns through to 150 microns and you can
select which layer thickness you require depending on the part you are
printing. The 25 microns layer thickness will achieve a much better part
resolution compared to the 150 microns style. You can also customize this
yourself and print in 1 micron increments if you wish.

A combination of these will determine the resolution of a printed part.

Please let us know if you require clarity. If you are unsure which
machine suits your application then let us know what industry/product you
are producing.

Asiga_Support
===================================

The build envelope on these machines is somewhat limited; 35 x 22 x 75mm
for the finest resolution printers. That's 1 3/8 x 7/8 x 3 inches,
approximately. Big enough for parts, not for complete carbodies.

Unfortunately, SLA is a single component system, so overhangs require
support structures, as mentioned below:

===================================
Our Freeform Pico range of 3D printers are a single material system which
means you do need to 'break-away' supports by hand after printing. Our
Composer software automatically places these support points in the exact
positions in which they are required so processing is quick and easy.

Asiga_Support
====================================

It's also unfortunate that I don't as yet know of any service bureau that
offers to build parts on one of these machines. Perhaps Shapeways will see
the need to offer a material/process that will reproduce finer detail?

I can see that this is definitely coming, but we're not quite there yet.

Dennis



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




Another Shapeways report

Robert kirkham
 

I've posted a number of photos of my own recent experiments with 3d printing (waiting for them to be approved). These were done by ADC (Advanced Design Concepts) - but as far as I know they use the same machine and substance as Shapeways. Overall I am quite happy with the parts I received.

The first photos show tank car underframes for CPR 389xxx series tank cars. The cars looked a lot like the Athearn single dome tank (and also like an SP prototype Tony Thompson has written about modelling). I've been muddling my way through this project for a number of years, but this is the closest I've come to an acceptable frame model. At this point the issues are in my design errors - not the material or process used by ADC. that said, I can see some grain in the part that may show through the paint. And the particles that are fused to make the part do produce some "noise" when under magnification. But for frame parts that will be largely hidden beneath running boards and the tank itself, I think this is acceptable quality for now.

The other part is an inverted Murphy end used on the CPR's 2975xx series single sheathed automobile boxcars. The rest of the model is still in process. Again one can see some waviness in the flat surfaces, and some imperfections in the corrugations, but overall I think it is a satisfactory starting point for the model. My photography isn't good enough to show the rivets along the edges, but they are there too.

I've been using Bestine rubber cement thinner to clean the waxy stuff of the parts with success so far. A few minutes in that stuff cleans them and changes the parts from translucent to opaque white and cleans some of the wax away.

One thing about ADC - they focus on your job so the parts are oriented as you would like. The auto-box end was modelled laying on the interior side of the model. Interesting that the view of the back shows more of the printing texture. I assume that is the wax support - and "yes" it is far more grainy than any other surface of the model.

By the way this ties into the other thread re the UP boxcars - as, for example, I believe this process allows one to build the ends without hacking up Tichy parts. Of course some of you are skilled enough that you don't hack, but for those of us who do . . . .

Rob Kirkham

--------------------------------------------------
From: "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012 1:08 PM
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Another Shapeways report



--- In STMFC@..., "Rob Kirkham" <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

Curious about the preparation you did on this part before priming Dennis?
Just wondering whether any of the distortion might be the waxy support
material they use? Not that I'm getting completely clean surfaces either,
but thought I'd ask.


Rob Kirkham
That's what I'm wondering, Rob. Hey, I don't have any inside track on this, I just submitted my part file through the automated front end of the web site, like anybody else. I would have thought they would have built the part with the flat disk surface that makes the end of the valve facing up, to give it the best quality, but apparently not. I actually submitted a dozen of these, joined together on a "runner", and I think they built it standing on end. It really doesn't matter, since the purpose of my test is to see what kind of quality can be had on ALL of the surfaces. This is the perfect part for a test, as far as I'm concerned, there is no "show face", they are ALL equally important.

Let me address Dave's comment about "noise". It appears that the best quality surface is the one that is "normal" to the print process, that is, flat and parallel, like a sheet of paper relative to the print head of a ink jet printer. These surfaces will be flat and smooth, as the face of Tom's boxes are. The next best quality will be on surfaces that are perpendicular to the normal, because each layer should end at the same point. The problem is they don't; there are minute differences in both the size and position of each dot of resin deposited, and the result is a certain amount of surface noise. The next worst surfaces are going to be those that are round, or at an angle to normal, because there is the possibility that the edges of the layers will actually show.

I am now realizing that the process used by Shapewys has another pitfall; the basic process can't build parts with overhangs, since there would be nothing to support the first layer of resin that hangs past the previous layer, so the process used by Shapeways builds a wax structure to support this first layer. Unfortunately, it appears that the wax construction is done at a considerably coarser resolution than the actual part, and any surface built against the wax picks up this coarser resolution. Tom pointed this out when discussing a unsuccessful earlier attempt of his, and If I can borrow a link to his photo:

http://www.pullmanproject.com/Shapeways10.jpg

You can clearly see the striations where the part was built against the wax supports that were needed to build the overhanging features. I believe I'm seeing this same effect on the bottom angular surface of the bowl on the bottom of my valve:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25967611@N04/8077677749/in/set-72157623125645997

I have no idea why they would degrade the resolution of the process by using a coarser resolution for the support material, but it appears they have.

I'm wondering if these fused disposition process (FDM) is ever going to meet our needs. However, I see stereiolithography (SLA), where the part is grown from liquid polymer in a tank, has considerably finer layer resolution. Here's a video of the process. Scroll to the end to see the finished parts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=l2SCrahu2fo

Asiga is a new low cost (relatively) entrant into the field, here is some comments from their discussion forum:

====================================
Our system has two main factors that affect build quality of the parts, these are listed below:

1. Image Resolution
This refers to the size of the pixel in the exposed image. The Pico and Pico Plus39 have a 39 micron pixel size, the Plus33 has a 33 microns pixel and the Plus27 a 27 microns pixel. The smaller the pixel the sharper the exposed image and the higher quality surface finish and detail resolution.

2. Layer Thickness
The thinner the print layer, the less visible the stepping. Our range of printers have presets from 25 microns through to 150 microns and you can select which layer thickness you require depending on the part you are printing. The 25 microns layer thickness will achieve a much better part resolution compared to the 150 microns style. You can also customize this yourself and print in 1 micron increments if you wish.

A combination of these will determine the resolution of a printed part.

Please let us know if you require clarity. If you are unsure which machine suits your application then let us know what industry/product you are producing.

Asiga_Support
===================================

The build envelope on these machines is somewhat limited; 35 x 22 x 75mm for the finest resolution printers. That's 1 3/8 x 7/8 x 3 inches, approximately. Big enough for parts, not for complete carbodies.

Unfortunately, SLA is a single component system, so overhangs require support structures, as mentioned below:

===================================
Our Freeform Pico range of 3D printers are a single material system which means you do need to 'break-away' supports by hand after printing. Our Composer software automatically places these support points in the exact positions in which they are required so processing is quick and easy.

Asiga_Support
====================================

It's also unfortunate that I don't as yet know of any service bureau that offers to build parts on one of these machines. Perhaps Shapeways will see the need to offer a material/process that will reproduce finer detail?

I can see that this is definitely coming, but we're not quite there yet.

Dennis



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: L&N and NKP gons and flat--Who is doing the decala and what colors were these cars painted?

Chad Boas
 

Jerry was working on them but I havent herd from him in a while. I am going to use the scrap box and some Microscale letters for the L&N and Microscale MC-4243 NKP Cabooses decale sheet has the small "NICKEL PLATE ROAD".
Chad Boas

--- In STMFC@..., "gary laakso" <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:

Who is preparing the decals for these cars and what colors were they painted? I checked my sources and found nothing on either the gons or the flat cars.
However, I did complete (weights to be added tomorrow) 9 of Chad’s Great Northern flat cars and they are really well done.
gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
vasa0vasa@...





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


L&N and NKP gons and flat--Who is doing the decala and what colors were these cars painted?

gary laakso
 

Who is preparing the decals for these cars and what colors were they painted? I checked my sources and found nothing on either the gons or the flat cars.
However, I did complete (weights to be added tomorrow) 9 of Chad’s Great Northern flat cars and they are really well done.
gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
vasa0vasa@...





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Naperville operating session

Ted Schnepf
 

Hello Everyone,

Just a reminder.

As in years gone past, I will host a operating session following the end of the RPM Naperville meet on Sunday, Oct 21 from 10 AM to 1 PM.

The Layout is in Elgin, Ill., about a 35 minute drive on Sunday morn. Operators of any experience level are welcome. The railroad is prototype based and at this point still evolving. Operators are requested to contact me off list to secure your operating spots for that morning.

Conclude your 2012 RPM meet with a operating session open to all.

Ted

Rails Unlimited
Ted Schnepf
railsunl@...
847-697-5353 or 5366
126 Will Scarlet
Elgin, Ill. 60120
http://RailsUnlimited.ribbonrail.com/

Model Railroad Sales and Service with
a personal touch.
Books new and used. HO and O scales.
DCC supplies. O scale urethane cars.
Photos and darkroom services.
Checks, cash (0%) or credit (secure server at web site 5% added).


Re: UP474500-474749 series car

Robert kirkham
 

very interested Richard - thanks.

The next question is about modelling in HO of course . . . Probably no easy answer there.

Rob

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Richard Hendrickson" <rhendrickson@...>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012 11:25 AM
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] UP47XXXX series car

On Oct 13, 2012, at 11:05 AM, Rob Kirkham wrote:
Was cruising through EBay photos this morning and noticed a wreck
photo showing a UP47xxxx series boxcar. Ebay auction: 160897731072.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Train-Wreck-Real-Photo-card-Montana-No-
Reserve-/160897731072?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2576408a00

It has 2/5/? Murphy end panels, but hard to tell what else. Could
it be 2/5/5/5? I'd like to know more . . . .
Rob, that car was one of 250 A-50-7 class double door auto cars
originally built in 1922 as double wood sheathed cars, then rebuilt
in 1934 by the UP's Grand Island shops as steel sheathed cars and
renumbered 474500-474749. They originally had 5-5-5 corrugated steel
ends, to which an additional two corrugations were added at the top
when rebuilt. I have photos I could scan and send you off-list if
you're interested.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Another Shapeways report

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Rob Kirkham" <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

Curious about the preparation you did on this part before priming Dennis?
Just wondering whether any of the distortion might be the waxy support
material they use? Not that I'm getting completely clean surfaces either,
but thought I'd ask.


Rob Kirkham
That's what I'm wondering, Rob. Hey, I don't have any inside track on this, I just submitted my part file through the automated front end of the web site, like anybody else. I would have thought they would have built the part with the flat disk surface that makes the end of the valve facing up, to give it the best quality, but apparently not. I actually submitted a dozen of these, joined together on a "runner", and I think they built it standing on end. It really doesn't matter, since the purpose of my test is to see what kind of quality can be had on ALL of the surfaces. This is the perfect part for a test, as far as I'm concerned, there is no "show face", they are ALL equally important.

Let me address Dave's comment about "noise". It appears that the best quality surface is the one that is "normal" to the print process, that is, flat and parallel, like a sheet of paper relative to the print head of a ink jet printer. These surfaces will be flat and smooth, as the face of Tom's boxes are. The next best quality will be on surfaces that are perpendicular to the normal, because each layer should end at the same point. The problem is they don't; there are minute differences in both the size and position of each dot of resin deposited, and the result is a certain amount of surface noise. The next worst surfaces are going to be those that are round, or at an angle to normal, because there is the possibility that the edges of the layers will actually show.

I am now realizing that the process used by Shapewys has another pitfall; the basic process can't build parts with overhangs, since there would be nothing to support the first layer of resin that hangs past the previous layer, so the process used by Shapeways builds a wax structure to support this first layer. Unfortunately, it appears that the wax construction is done at a considerably coarser resolution than the actual part, and any surface built against the wax picks up this coarser resolution. Tom pointed this out when discussing a unsuccessful earlier attempt of his, and If I can borrow a link to his photo:

http://www.pullmanproject.com/Shapeways10.jpg

You can clearly see the striations where the part was built against the wax supports that were needed to build the overhanging features. I believe I'm seeing this same effect on the bottom angular surface of the bowl on the bottom of my valve:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25967611@N04/8077677749/in/set-72157623125645997

I have no idea why they would degrade the resolution of the process by using a coarser resolution for the support material, but it appears they have.

I'm wondering if these fused disposition process (FDM) is ever going to meet our needs. However, I see stereiolithography (SLA), where the part is grown from liquid polymer in a tank, has considerably finer layer resolution. Here's a video of the process. Scroll to the end to see the finished parts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=l2SCrahu2fo

Asiga is a new low cost (relatively) entrant into the field, here is some comments from their discussion forum:

====================================
Our system has two main factors that affect build quality of the parts, these are listed below:

1. Image Resolution
This refers to the size of the pixel in the exposed image. The Pico and Pico Plus39 have a 39 micron pixel size, the Plus33 has a 33 microns pixel and the Plus27 a 27 microns pixel. The smaller the pixel the sharper the exposed image and the higher quality surface finish and detail resolution.

2. Layer Thickness
The thinner the print layer, the less visible the stepping. Our range of printers have presets from 25 microns through to 150 microns and you can select which layer thickness you require depending on the part you are printing. The 25 microns layer thickness will achieve a much better part resolution compared to the 150 microns style. You can also customize this yourself and print in 1 micron increments if you wish.

A combination of these will determine the resolution of a printed part.

Please let us know if you require clarity. If you are unsure which machine suits your application then let us know what industry/product you are producing.

Asiga_Support
===================================

The build envelope on these machines is somewhat limited; 35 x 22 x 75mm for the finest resolution printers. That's 1 3/8 x 7/8 x 3 inches, approximately. Big enough for parts, not for complete carbodies.

Unfortunately, SLA is a single component system, so overhangs require support structures, as mentioned below:

===================================
Our Freeform Pico range of 3D printers are a single material system which means you do need to 'break-away' supports by hand after printing. Our Composer software automatically places these support points in the exact positions in which they are required so processing is quick and easy.

Asiga_Support
====================================

It's also unfortunate that I don't as yet know of any service bureau that offers to build parts on one of these machines. Perhaps Shapeways will see the need to offer a material/process that will reproduce finer detail?

I can see that this is definitely coming, but we're not quite there yet.

Dennis


Re: L&N and NKP gons and flat

Bill Welch
 

Steve

L&N 25884 from Bob's is a nice broadside shot in Wilson, NC on 2-2-1952 w/a reweigh date of 1950. The Ameling photos of L&N 25823 are 1957 in Sarasota, FL. Stenciling identical to 25884. These three include good views of each end. L&N 25800, the Builder's Photo, cataloged as PA 182717, is a 3/4 shot giving a good view of the "B" end.

BTW, Bob's is also the source for L&N 26371, which is a shorter gon also w/wood sides and stake pockets. Southern had a similar car, both of which resemble the PRR GR/GRa.

With Chad's new kit, virtually every gondola owned by the L&N into the 1950's can now be modeled in HO except the above small wood side gon. Athearn has their (and NC&StL's) 65-ft mill gon. Westerfield's 45-ft USRA mill gon can be used for the L&N's copy of these, Sunshine has their 40-ft gon kit (and NC&StL's) and InterMountain has their USRA 40-ft composite gon.

Life is good!

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., "Steven D Johnson" <tenncentralrwy@...> wrote:

Bill,



What are the dates on the one from Bob's Photos and those from the Ameling
collection?



Thanks,



Steve Johnson





From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
lnbill
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012 10:13 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: L&N and NKP gons and flat





Photos of the L&N gons are available. There is one available from Bob's
Photos and I think my MtV Builder's Photo came from the Merrilee's
Collection at the Archives of Canada. Then there is a group of 3 photos shot
by Howard Ameling from different angles of a car loaded w/coal. I think Mr.
Ameling's photos are now available through Cleveland St. Univ. where his
collection is deposited. My memory is I made these available to Chad to
assist his pattern making and the necessary decals.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Chad"
<chadboas@> wrote:

Steve,
Yes it is. The flats are from the 22000-22249, 24300-24549, and
24550-24799.
Chad Boas

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Steven D
Johnson" <tenncentralrwy@> wrote:

Chad,



Is your L&N gondola based on the 25800-25999 series cars built by Mt.
Vernon
Car Mfg. Co. in 1928?



Steve Johnson





From: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
Of Chad
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 9:31 PM
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: L&N and NKP gons and flat





Thanks, Bill
These are from your suggestion. I think there was a NKP flat car made
from
these. Still looking for conformation. There were some flats listed that
were 50'9".
Also, I added photos of the NKP. Should be able to get it painted over
the
weekend.
Chad Boas

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "lnbill"
<fgexbill@> wrote:

Okay, on 3 let's all chant Chad--Chad--Chad--you're the man--Chad--...

One, two, ...

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Chad"
<chadboas@> wrote:

All,
The next round of kits will be the wood side gons for L&N and NKP.
The L&N is a 46'9" and can be either a flat car or can be ordered
with
the sides parts. The NKP is a 50'9" wood side gon. The kits will include
the
Red Caboose pockets for the wood sides.
I have added a file called L&N and NKP gons and flat. The L&N car is
there and I am working on getting a picture of the NKP.
I will have these cars avalible for Naperville.
Contact me off list for more information.
Thanks, Chad Boas









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: L&N and NKP gons and flat

Chad Boas
 

The L&N build date is 6-28 by Mt Vernon car.
Chad Boas

--- In STMFC@..., "Steven D Johnson" <tenncentralrwy@...> wrote:

Bill,



What are the dates on the one from Bob's Photos and those from the Ameling
collection?



Thanks,



Steve Johnson





From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
lnbill
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012 10:13 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: L&N and NKP gons and flat





Photos of the L&N gons are available. There is one available from Bob's
Photos and I think my MtV Builder's Photo came from the Merrilee's
Collection at the Archives of Canada. Then there is a group of 3 photos shot
by Howard Ameling from different angles of a car loaded w/coal. I think Mr.
Ameling's photos are now available through Cleveland St. Univ. where his
collection is deposited. My memory is I made these available to Chad to
assist his pattern making and the necessary decals.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Chad"
<chadboas@> wrote:

Steve,
Yes it is. The flats are from the 22000-22249, 24300-24549, and
24550-24799.
Chad Boas

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Steven D
Johnson" <tenncentralrwy@> wrote:

Chad,



Is your L&N gondola based on the 25800-25999 series cars built by Mt.
Vernon
Car Mfg. Co. in 1928?



Steve Johnson





From: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
Of Chad
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 9:31 PM
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: L&N and NKP gons and flat





Thanks, Bill
These are from your suggestion. I think there was a NKP flat car made
from
these. Still looking for conformation. There were some flats listed that
were 50'9".
Also, I added photos of the NKP. Should be able to get it painted over
the
weekend.
Chad Boas

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "lnbill"
<fgexbill@> wrote:

Okay, on 3 let's all chant Chad--Chad--Chad--you're the man--Chad--...

One, two, ...

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Chad"
<chadboas@> wrote:

All,
The next round of kits will be the wood side gons for L&N and NKP.
The L&N is a 46'9" and can be either a flat car or can be ordered
with
the sides parts. The NKP is a 50'9" wood side gon. The kits will include
the
Red Caboose pockets for the wood sides.
I have added a file called L&N and NKP gons and flat. The L&N car is
there and I am working on getting a picture of the NKP.
I will have these cars avalible for Naperville.
Contact me off list for more information.
Thanks, Chad Boas




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: L&N and NKP gons and flat

Steven D Johnson
 

Bill,



What are the dates on the one from Bob's Photos and those from the Ameling
collection?



Thanks,



Steve Johnson





From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
lnbill
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012 10:13 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: L&N and NKP gons and flat





Photos of the L&N gons are available. There is one available from Bob's
Photos and I think my MtV Builder's Photo came from the Merrilee's
Collection at the Archives of Canada. Then there is a group of 3 photos shot
by Howard Ameling from different angles of a car loaded w/coal. I think Mr.
Ameling's photos are now available through Cleveland St. Univ. where his
collection is deposited. My memory is I made these available to Chad to
assist his pattern making and the necessary decals.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Chad"
<chadboas@...> wrote:

Steve,
Yes it is. The flats are from the 22000-22249, 24300-24549, and
24550-24799.
Chad Boas

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Steven D
Johnson" <tenncentralrwy@> wrote:

Chad,



Is your L&N gondola based on the 25800-25999 series cars built by Mt.
Vernon
Car Mfg. Co. in 1928?



Steve Johnson





From: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
Of Chad
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 9:31 PM
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: L&N and NKP gons and flat





Thanks, Bill
These are from your suggestion. I think there was a NKP flat car made
from
these. Still looking for conformation. There were some flats listed that
were 50'9".
Also, I added photos of the NKP. Should be able to get it painted over
the
weekend.
Chad Boas

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "lnbill"
<fgexbill@> wrote:

Okay, on 3 let's all chant Chad--Chad--Chad--you're the man--Chad--...

One, two, ...

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Chad"
<chadboas@> wrote:

All,
The next round of kits will be the wood side gons for L&N and NKP.
The L&N is a 46'9" and can be either a flat car or can be ordered
with
the sides parts. The NKP is a 50'9" wood side gon. The kits will include
the
Red Caboose pockets for the wood sides.
I have added a file called L&N and NKP gons and flat. The L&N car is
there and I am working on getting a picture of the NKP.
I will have these cars avalible for Naperville.
Contact me off list for more information.
Thanks, Chad Boas






Re: UP47XXXX series car

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Oct 13, 2012, at 11:05 AM, Rob Kirkham wrote:
Was cruising through EBay photos this morning and noticed a wreck
photo showing a UP47xxxx series boxcar. Ebay auction: 160897731072.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Train-Wreck-Real-Photo-card-Montana-No-
Reserve-/160897731072?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2576408a00

It has 2/5/? Murphy end panels, but hard to tell what else. Could
it be 2/5/5/5? I'd like to know more . . . .
Rob, that car was one of 250 A-50-7 class double door auto cars
originally built in 1922 as double wood sheathed cars, then rebuilt
in 1934 by the UP's Grand Island shops as steel sheathed cars and
renumbered 474500-474749. They originally had 5-5-5 corrugated steel
ends, to which an additional two corrugations were added at the top
when rebuilt. I have photos I could scan and send you off-list if
you're interested.

Richard Hendrickson


UP47XXXX series car

Robert kirkham
 

Was cruising through EBay photos this morning and noticed a wreck photo showing a UP47xxxx series boxcar. Ebay auction: 160897731072.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Train-Wreck-Real-Photo-card-Montana-No-Reserve-/160897731072?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2576408a00

It has 2/5/? Murphy end panels, but hard to tell what else. Could it be 2/5/5/5? I'd like to know more . . . .

Rob Kirkham


Re: New Look for F&C Website

Douglas Harding
 

Clark, F&C were at St Louis in August.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: L&N and NKP gons and flat

Bill Welch
 

Photos of the L&N gons are available. There is one available from Bob's Photos and I think my MtV Builder's Photo came from the Merrilee's Collection at the Archives of Canada. Then there is a group of 3 photos shot by Howard Ameling from different angles of a car loaded w/coal. I think Mr. Ameling's photos are now available through Cleveland St. Univ. where his collection is deposited. My memory is I made these available to Chad to assist his pattern making and the necessary decals.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., "Chad" <chadboas@...> wrote:

Steve,
Yes it is. The flats are from the 22000-22249, 24300-24549, and 24550-24799.
Chad Boas

--- In STMFC@..., "Steven D Johnson" <tenncentralrwy@> wrote:

Chad,



Is your L&N gondola based on the 25800-25999 series cars built by Mt. Vernon
Car Mfg. Co. in 1928?



Steve Johnson





From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Chad
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 9:31 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: L&N and NKP gons and flat





Thanks, Bill
These are from your suggestion. I think there was a NKP flat car made from
these. Still looking for conformation. There were some flats listed that
were 50'9".
Also, I added photos of the NKP. Should be able to get it painted over the
weekend.
Chad Boas

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "lnbill"
<fgexbill@> wrote:

Okay, on 3 let's all chant Chad--Chad--Chad--you're the man--Chad--...

One, two, ...

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Chad"
<chadboas@> wrote:

All,
The next round of kits will be the wood side gons for L&N and NKP.
The L&N is a 46'9" and can be either a flat car or can be ordered with
the sides parts. The NKP is a 50'9" wood side gon. The kits will include the
Red Caboose pockets for the wood sides.
I have added a file called L&N and NKP gons and flat. The L&N car is
there and I am working on getting a picture of the NKP.
I will have these cars avalible for Naperville.
Contact me off list for more information.
Thanks, Chad Boas




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: L&N and NKP gons and flat

Chad Boas
 

Steve,
Yes it is. The flats are from the 22000-22249, 24300-24549, and 24550-24799.
Chad Boas

--- In STMFC@..., "Steven D Johnson" <tenncentralrwy@...> wrote:

Chad,



Is your L&N gondola based on the 25800-25999 series cars built by Mt. Vernon
Car Mfg. Co. in 1928?



Steve Johnson





From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Chad
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 9:31 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: L&N and NKP gons and flat





Thanks, Bill
These are from your suggestion. I think there was a NKP flat car made from
these. Still looking for conformation. There were some flats listed that
were 50'9".
Also, I added photos of the NKP. Should be able to get it painted over the
weekend.
Chad Boas

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "lnbill"
<fgexbill@> wrote:

Okay, on 3 let's all chant Chad--Chad--Chad--you're the man--Chad--...

One, two, ...

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Chad"
<chadboas@> wrote:

All,
The next round of kits will be the wood side gons for L&N and NKP.
The L&N is a 46'9" and can be either a flat car or can be ordered with
the sides parts. The NKP is a 50'9" wood side gon. The kits will include the
Red Caboose pockets for the wood sides.
I have added a file called L&N and NKP gons and flat. The L&N car is
there and I am working on getting a picture of the NKP.
I will have these cars avalible for Naperville.
Contact me off list for more information.
Thanks, Chad Boas






Re: New Look for F&C Website

Gary Leanz
 

Sure hope they'll show! > Clark Propst


F&C told me they plan to have three vendor tables at Naperville.

Gary Leanz


Re: Another Shapeways report

Robert kirkham
 

Curious about the preparation you did on this part before priming Dennis? Just wondering whether any of the distortion might be the waxy support material they use? Not that I'm getting completely clean surfaces either, but thought I'd ask.


Rob Kirkham

--------------------------------------------------
From: "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...>
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 12:02 PM
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Another Shapeways report



--- In STMFC@..., "pullmanboss" <pullmanboss@...> wrote:

I had Shapeways run two more parts with much finer detail and/or more complexity than the bolster pan reported previously. But first, this note - I know these are not freight car parts, but the STMFC is where the most intelligent discussion of Shapeways' processes is taking place. Also, I fear that if I take this to the Passenger Car List the discussion will focus on the parts and not on the process. Thanks for your forbearance.
Tom's recent round of test projects prompted me to send my L-2 passenger car triple valve out again...

Tom and I seem to be taking opposite tacks on this... Tom is looking to learn the limitations, so as to be able to design usable parts/patterns within those limitations. I think with Shapeways, he's found that build orientation is important, and if you can connive to have them use your preferred orientation, you can get usable flat parts. The problem is, there's lots of ways to get flat parts, photo etching, for one, and photo etching brings the added advantage of doing some creative folding to produce 3-D objects. Of course, Shapeways can be considerably cheaper than etching, especially for one-off parts.

I, on the other hand, want to test the usefulness of the process as a sort of "universal modeling medium" to produce those needed parts that just can't be made easily by any process... that's essentially why they aren't made. My triple valve fits this description; it's small, no, downright tiny, has almost no flat surfaces, and has mechanical features in multiple orientations, which would preclude simple injection molding even if I wanted to cut a simple cavity. This is not a simple part, but it shares these restraints with a variety of hardware parts; door hardware, hand brake housings, truck journals and spring packages... all the little details, many of which we would like to combine with a larger object, such as the door hardware integral with the door, or carside.

Anyway, here's a link to a set of photos of the project to this point; a photo of the prototype, some screen shots of my solid model, and photos of the part I had printed a couple years ago, and now from Shapeways.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25967611@N04/sets/72157623125645997/

This result is better than last time, to the point where I'll probably use them if nothing better comes along before I get back to the project they're intended for. I'm not happy with the surface, but have seen enough dirt caked underbody equipment to justify the lack of precise surfaces in this application. The problem is, once you start working with computer modeling, you realize how simplified the other parts are. I would love to model a better detailed, correctly sized brake cylinder to go along with this valve, and it occurs to me that it would be really cool to also include the branch pipe with its dirt collector and cut-out cock. Problem is, I'm not willing to build models that look like they were done by Georges Seurat, where solid surfaces dissolve into thousands of little dots.

Several people have been a bit down on Shapeways, mentioning broken parts. Meanwhile, Shapeways has apparently just revised their minimum cross section requirements upward, obviously in an attempt not be responsible for failures when designers attempt to push the envelope. The problem I'm seeing, however, doesn't relate to minimum cross section (OK, so I can't include the brake pipe) but rather to layer thickness and surface resolution. The various machines I've researched that have a build envelope the size that Shapeways offers have a minimum layer thickness of 50 microns... essentially .002". Some systems are now claiming 27 microns, a bit over .001", but have build envelopes of only about one cubic inch. The problem is, .002" is clearly visible on an HO scale part; I've used that dimension for lap seems (although I prefer .003", to be sure it doesn't get filled with paint). I'm not sure that .001" is going to be much of an improvement. When the systems get down to 10 micron layers, I think we'll have something. I don't see why it isn't possible; I doubt 2-D printers lay down much more ink than that, but build time, and cost, is going to go up by a corresponding amount.

It will be interesting to see what the next couple of years brings.

Dennis



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: L&N and NKP gons and flat

Steven D Johnson
 

Chad,



Is your L&N gondola based on the 25800-25999 series cars built by Mt. Vernon
Car Mfg. Co. in 1928?



Steve Johnson





From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Chad
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 9:31 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: L&N and NKP gons and flat





Thanks, Bill
These are from your suggestion. I think there was a NKP flat car made from
these. Still looking for conformation. There were some flats listed that
were 50'9".
Also, I added photos of the NKP. Should be able to get it painted over the
weekend.
Chad Boas

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "lnbill"
<fgexbill@...> wrote:

Okay, on 3 let's all chant Chad--Chad--Chad--you're the man--Chad--...

One, two, ...

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Chad"
<chadboas@> wrote:

All,
The next round of kits will be the wood side gons for L&N and NKP.
The L&N is a 46'9" and can be either a flat car or can be ordered with
the sides parts. The NKP is a 50'9" wood side gon. The kits will include the
Red Caboose pockets for the wood sides.
I have added a file called L&N and NKP gons and flat. The L&N car is
there and I am working on getting a picture of the NKP.
I will have these cars avalible for Naperville.
Contact me off list for more information.
Thanks, Chad Boas


Re: L&N and NKP gons and flat

Chad Boas
 

Thanks, Bill
These are from your suggestion. I think there was a NKP flat car made from these. Still looking for conformation. There were some flats listed that were 50'9".
Also, I added photos of the NKP. Should be able to get it painted over the weekend.
Chad Boas

--- In STMFC@..., "lnbill" <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Okay, on 3 let's all chant Chad--Chad--Chad--you're the man--Chad--...

One, two, ...

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., "Chad" <chadboas@> wrote:

All,
The next round of kits will be the wood side gons for L&N and NKP.
The L&N is a 46'9" and can be either a flat car or can be ordered with the sides parts. The NKP is a 50'9" wood side gon. The kits will include the Red Caboose pockets for the wood sides.
I have added a file called L&N and NKP gons and flat. The L&N car is there and I am working on getting a picture of the NKP.
I will have these cars avalible for Naperville.
Contact me off list for more information.
Thanks, Chad Boas

85321 - 85340 of 196937