Date   

Re: H21 Hopper Cars: PRR and who else??!

Benjamin Hom
 

Brad Andorian wrote:
"I would appreciate confirmation that VGN and N&W operated H21's. If you could
also supply car numbers or a webpage for reference I would be grateful."

N&W definitely leased Class H21As from PRR, and this is backed by photographic
evidence.  See N&WHS "The Arrow" March/April 1994 issue for details.

I'm less certain about the VGN lease; it's detailed in a short article in the
July/August 1997 issue of The Arrow, but I have not seen any photos of these
cars in VGN lettering.

Most of my magazine library is in storage, and I don't have ready access to
these articles at the moment.


Ben Hom

.


H21 Hopper Cars: PRR and who else??!

Brad Andonian
 

Fellas,

I would appreciate confirmation that VGN and N&W operated H21's. If you could also supply car numbers or a webpage for reference I would be grateful.

Thanks,
Brad Andonian


Re: End brackets on CV 40000-series boxcar

Armand Premo
 

What is wrong with Drip Cap?Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: soolinehistory
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2012 11:43 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: End brackets on CV 40000-series boxcar





--- In STMFC@..., "Don" <riverman_vt@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Marty,
>
> Clearly the simple and logical way out of your dilemna is to call the piece the "top end plate" as Dennis originally suggested as that eliminates any confusion as to where a "plate" might be applied, top or someplace lower. Like you, and inspite of the CBC definition, I do not accept the terminology that a "plate" is always the piece on top.
> That might be the case with wooden construction but I doubt it holds with steel owing to its being rolled as "plate steel". This the "top end plate" seems to be the most appropriate description as it served for more than a simple "drip strip".
>
> Cordially, Don Valentine

I can't say I disagree. The term "plate" was initially used in wood car construction, so there was little confusion with "plate" steel.

Also the member across the bottom of car framing is almost universally called a "sill" (side sill, end sill) because in invariably spreads the load and transmits it to the bolsters. This differs from common architectural usage, where the "sole plate" of a stud wall, for instance, serves to space the studs, but doesn't actually distribute their load, and so isn't actually a sill, and therefore isn't called a sill.

Now that we're through the definition of "plate", the distinctive feature of the piece that both CV and CN used is that it's a steel pressing, rather than a length of standard section structural steel.

Dennis


Re: End brackets on CV 40000-series boxcar

Guy Wilber
 

Dennis wrote:

"I can't say I disagree. The term "plate" was initially used in wood car construction, so there was little confusion with "plate" steel.

Also the member across the bottom of car framing is almost universally called a "sill" (side sill, end sill) because in invariably spreads the load and transmits it to the bolsters. This differs from common architectural usage, where the "sole plate" of a stud wall, for instance, serves to space the studs, but doesn't actually distribute their load, and so isn't actually a sill, and therefore isn't called a sill."


ARA Plate 305 (circa 1930) is titled: END PLATE. The revised 1930 drawing is a pressed 5/16" member with the first leg being 3 1/8" high, inward section 5" in depth and an upper leg 8 1/4" high. The upper leg is cut to the pitch of the roof.


"Now that we're through the definition of "plate", the distinctive feature of the piece that both CV and CN used is that it's a steel pressing, rather than a length of standard section structural steel."


I am not sure if a standard section was ever utilized for this particular member, at least not within the ARA designs. Flat plate was pressed into the "Z". The drawing called out for a 5/16" radius at each of the two bends. Any other member utilizing a standard section is called out as such.


Kindest Regards,


Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada
















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Naperville RPM 2012 Conference

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Oct 27, 2012, at 12:20 AM, alinejoe3 wrote:
We had 340 attendees this year which was up over last year. New
vendors also. Richard Hendrickson and Tony Thompson hosted the
Freinds of the Freight Car dinner with Sam Clarke from Kadee Mfg.
as the speaker.
Joe, that's certainly good news. From an attendee's perspective, I
thought the meeting was a great success, and I look forward to next
year. I may or may not have a clinic, but I'll certainly be there in
any case.

Just as a footnote, the hotel did not comp. the room that Tony and I
had, so if that was your intention, they failed to follow through on it.

Onward to 2013, and muchas gracias for making this meeting possible.
It's a lot of work, and we all appreciate it.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: End brackets on CV 40000-series boxcar

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Don" <riverman_vt@...> wrote:

Hi Marty,

Clearly the simple and logical way out of your dilemna is to call the piece the "top end plate" as Dennis originally suggested as that eliminates any confusion as to where a "plate" might be applied, top or someplace lower. Like you, and inspite of the CBC definition, I do not accept the terminology that a "plate" is always the piece on top.
That might be the case with wooden construction but I doubt it holds with steel owing to its being rolled as "plate steel". This the "top end plate" seems to be the most appropriate description as it served for more than a simple "drip strip".

Cordially, Don Valentine
I can't say I disagree. The term "plate" was initially used in wood car construction, so there was little confusion with "plate" steel.

Also the member across the bottom of car framing is almost universally called a "sill" (side sill, end sill) because in invariably spreads the load and transmits it to the bolsters. This differs from common architectural usage, where the "sole plate" of a stud wall, for instance, serves to space the studs, but doesn't actually distribute their load, and so isn't actually a sill, and therefore isn't called a sill.

Now that we're through the definition of "plate", the distinctive feature of the piece that both CV and CN used is that it's a steel pressing, rather than a length of standard section structural steel.

Dennis


Re: End brackets on CV 40000-series boxcar

Don <riverman_vt@...>
 

Hi Marty,

Clearly the simple and logical way out of your dilemna is to call the piece the "top end plate" as Dennis originally suggested as that eliminates any confusion as to where a "plate" might be applied, top or someplace lower. Like you, and inspite of the CBC definition, I do not accept the terminology that a "plate" is always the piece on top.
That might be the case with wooden construction but I doubt it holds with steel owing to its being rolled as "plate steel". This the "top end plate" seems to be the most appropriate description as it served for more than a simple "drip strip".

Cordially, Don Valentine

--- In STMFC@..., "Marty" <mjmcguirk@...> wrote:

I hate to reply to my own reply, but it occurs to me that the word
top is redundant, since "plate" implies it is the top member. Here is the definition of "end plate" from the 1922 CBC:

End Plate. A member across the end and connecting the tops of the end posts of a car body and fastened at the ends to the two side plates. It is usually made of the proper form to serve as an end carline.
Dennis,
First of all, thanks.

Secondly, don't sell my ignorance short. I'm not sure "plate" automatically implies top member - at least to me. There is a steel plate at the bottom of the end on these cars (it's in place of several of the horizontal boards) - when I talked to Jim McFarlene (long time CV chief engineer) about these cars, he mentioned "end plates" - I thought he was referring to the steel plates at the lower portion of the ends - obviously he knew what he was talking about and I misunderstood!

For that reason in the post I think I'll use your suggested terminology and the CBC defintion.

Marty McGuirk


Naperville RPM 2012 Conference

alinejoe3 <alinejoe3@...>
 

I would like to thank all the attendees, speakers, vendors, my wife and her helper for making the event a great success. Also Bob Kosic and all the modular guys for all there hard work setting up and taking down.
We had 340 attendees this year which was up over last year. New vendors also. Richard Hendrickson and Tony Thompson hosted the Freinds of the Freight Car dinner with Sam Clarke from Kadee Mfg. as the speaker.
Next year will be the 20th Anniversary of the meet, so I will be putting a lot of effort into it to make it a great event for all. We will be posting coverage of this years event and pictures on the web-site soon. Also, as soon as it is available, info about next years Conference with info added all during the year. Looking forward to seeing many new faces.

http://www.railroadprototypemodelers.org/

See you next year
Joe DElia
RPM/Naperville






http://www.railroadprototypemodelers.org/


Re: End brackets on CV 40000-series boxcar

Robert kirkham
 

OK - I took another look and agree with Dennis' suggested terminology. Didn't notice how the braces are bolted to it my first look.

Rob

--------------------------------------------------
From: "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...>
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 11:57 AM
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: End brackets on CV 40000-series boxcar

I'm trying to write a blog post on the Central Vermont's 40000-series Howe truss boxcars (ACF, 1924) and can't find the right� term to describe perhaps the most unusal spotting features of these cars - that section of hat bracing(?) that spans the top of the end braces. See http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=846362 � for a photo.
Any thoughts on what to call this?
Structurally, it's the "end frame top plate." Older designs used an angle section; this design used a pressing. "Pressed steel end top plate" might work.

Dennis
I hate to reply to my own reply, but it occurs to me that the word
top is redundant, since "plate" implies it is the top member. Here is the definition of "end plate" from the 1922 CBC:

End Plate. A member across the end and connecting the tops of the end posts of a car body and fastened at the ends to the two side plates. It is usually made of the proper form to serve as an end carline.


Re: End brackets on CV 40000-series boxcar

Robert kirkham
 

How about sheet metal flashing? I don't see a "hat" profile or even a reason to think it is structural (i.e. bracing).

I believe some of the CNR GT cars (similar to the Accurail 4100 series <http://www.accurail.com/accurail/4100.htm> ) had this as well.

Rob Kirkham

--------------------------------------------------
From: "ronald parisi" <ronald.parisi@...>
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 12:48 PM
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] End brackets on CV 40000-series boxcar

Marty:

I'm sure that this answer will elicit the correct term so here goes: how
about a "drip sill" as it seems to me that its function is to keep water
out of the braces.
I avoided the obvious 'drip strip' as too cute.

Ron Parisi

On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 2:21 PM, Marty McGuirk <mjmcguirk@...>wrote:

I'm trying to write a blog post on the Central Vermont's 40000-series Howe
truss boxcars (ACF, 1924) and can't find the right term to describe perhaps
the most unusal spotting features of these cars - that section of hat
bracing(?) that spans the top of the end braces. See
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=846362 for a photo.

Any thoughts on what to call this?

Also, am I'm correct in assuming this feature is unique to the CV's Howe
truss cars (in many ways the CV's cars were the first of what came to be
called the "alternate ARA standard" - which I believe Sunshine may refer to
as the "deFacto" ARA standard car.

Thanks in advance,

Marty







------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




Ladder etchings

Pierre Oliver <pierre.oliver@...>
 

For those of you who found that I was sold out of ladder etchings last weekend in Naperville, please note that I will be restocked by Wednesday of next week and will be happy to fill any orders at that point.
For those of you who are curious as to what I'm talking about, please visit the Yarmouth Model Works website and have a look at the detail parts page.
Thanks,

--
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com


Re: Extra Naperville Handouts Available for $5 plus SASE

Bill Welch
 

I have now committed all of the 14 extra handouts to interested parties as of 5:21 PM today.

Thanks!

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

I have 14 handouts left from my presentation at the recent Naperville


KGB Waybill

Charles Hostetler <cesicjh@...>
 

Good Evening All,

Andy Laurent and I are collaborating on a series of posts about prototype waybills. We're going through the waybills in his collection one by one, and trying to understand the shipper, consignee, route, freight car, and commodity. Those interested can find the first of these posts here:

http://cnwmodeling.blogspot.com/2012/10/a-detailed-look-at-prototype-waybill-1.html


Full Disclosure: This waybill dates from 1962, 2 years past the cutoff date for this list. However, both Andy and my modeling interests are in the 1950s, so we have tried to place a priority on discussing the features of the shipment in the context of a time frame that is relevant to this group (1950 - 1957).

As we plan a series of these discussions, we would especially appreciate any suggestions for improvement in focus or completeness in this first one.

Regards,

Charles Hostetler


Re: CP "minibox"

golden1014
 

Does anyone have one of these TLT models, and if so can you provide a quality report?

Thanks,
John

John Golden
O'Fallon, IL

--- In STMFC@..., John Riddell <riddellj@...> wrote:

More precisely, the CP cars had wood running boards. However TrueLine Trains is also offering the models decorated for the PGE and BCOL.. Many CP cars acquired second-hand by the PGE and BCOL were fitted with metal running boards. So the ad photo presumably shows an undecorated PGE or BCOL model with a metal running board.

John Riddell



Re: Digest Number 7608

Nate Fries <nfriespf@...>
 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone

STMFC@... wrote:


Westerfield Models News, October 2012

dahminator68
 

Hello the Group:

Westerfield Models is please to announce our newest Kit Release: #12101
Rock Island B-2 Conversion Single Deck Stock Car, available now at the
introductory price of $37.00 plus shipping.

Also newly available, a new addition to our line of Detail Parts, #1934,
A set of Missouri Pacific 20 inch wide Box Car Ladders. This set of
five ladders includes two each 6 rung and three each 7 rung ladders, and
is priced at $3.00.

These and all of our other products are available through our website,
westerfieldmodels.com <http://www.westerfieldmodels.com/> .

Thank you,

Andrew Dahm

Westerfield Models, LLC


Re: End brackets on CV 40000-series boxcar

ronald parisi
 

Marty:

I'm sure that this answer will elicit the correct term so here goes: how
about a "drip sill" as it seems to me that its function is to keep water
out of the braces.
I avoided the obvious 'drip strip' as too cute.

Ron Parisi

On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 2:21 PM, Marty McGuirk <mjmcguirk@...>wrote:

**




I'm trying to write a blog post on the Central Vermont's 40000-series Howe
truss boxcars (ACF, 1924) and can't find the right term to describe perhaps
the most unusal spotting features of these cars - that section of hat
bracing(?) that spans the top of the end braces. See
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=846362 for a photo.

Any thoughts on what to call this?

Also, am I'm correct in assuming this feature is unique to the CV's Howe
truss cars (in many ways the CV's cars were the first of what came to be
called the "alternate ARA standard" - which I believe Sunshine may refer to
as the "deFacto" ARA standard car.

Thanks in advance,

Marty

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: End brackets on CV 40000-series boxcar

Marty McGuirk
 

I hate to reply to my own reply, but it occurs to me that the word
top is redundant, since "plate" implies it is the top member. Here is the definition of "end plate" from the 1922 CBC:

End Plate. A member across the end and connecting the tops of the end posts of a car body and fastened at the ends to the two side plates. It is usually made of the proper form to serve as an end carline.
Dennis,
First of all, thanks.

Secondly, don't sell my ignorance short. I'm not sure "plate" automatically implies top member - at least to me. There is a steel plate at the bottom of the end on these cars (it's in place of several of the horizontal boards) - when I talked to Jim McFarlene (long time CV chief engineer) about these cars, he mentioned "end plates" - I thought he was referring to the steel plates at the lower portion of the ends - obviously he knew what he was talking about and I misunderstood!

For that reason in the post I think I'll use your suggested terminology and the CBC defintion.

Marty McGuirk


Re: End brackets on CV 40000-series boxcar

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote:



--- In STMFC@..., Marty McGuirk <mjmcguirk@> wrote:




I'm trying to write a blog post on the Central Vermont's 40000-series Howe truss boxcars (ACF, 1924) and can't find the right term to describe perhaps the most unusal spotting features of these cars - that section of hat bracing(?) that spans the top of the end braces. See http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=846362  for a photo.



Any thoughts on what to call this?
Structurally, it's the "end frame top plate." Older designs used an angle section; this design used a pressing. "Pressed steel end top plate" might work.

Dennis
I hate to reply to my own reply, but it occurs to me that the word
top is redundant, since "plate" implies it is the top member. Here is the definition of "end plate" from the 1922 CBC:

End Plate. A member across the end and connecting the tops of the end posts of a car body and fastened at the ends to the two side plates. It is usually made of the proper form to serve as an end carline.

Dennis


Re: End brackets on CV 40000-series boxcar

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., Marty McGuirk <mjmcguirk@...> wrote:




I'm trying to write a blog post on the Central Vermont's 40000-series Howe truss boxcars (ACF, 1924) and can't find the right term to describe perhaps the most unusal spotting features of these cars - that section of hat bracing(?) that spans the top of the end braces. See http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=846362  for a photo.



Any thoughts on what to call this?
Structurally, it's the "end frame top plate." Older designs used an angle section; this design used a pressing. "Pressed steel end top plate" might work.

Dennis

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