Date   

Re: Train Miniature Hart Gondola

Doug Junda
 

We did do a model of the Hart Ballets car. Currently we have about 20 of them left in stock. The version the we produced with the all wood version. they could be built with the center doors in any of the configurations. The kits sells for $50.00 they are a resin one piece body with all of the detail part. we provide the Hart/roger decals but, no road names as it seems that quite a few of the railroads had them. They also include trucks with them.

We do not plan on doing a re-run of the kits, so when they are gone that is is.

You can contact me at info@....

Thanks,

Doug Junda


Re: H21 Hopper Cars: PRR and who else??!

Eric Hansmann
 

The Wheeling & Lake Erie had 70-ton hoppers similar to the PRR H21 class. 1000 cars in the 77000-77999 series were built by Pressed Steel Car Co of McKees Rocks, PA, and installed in 1917. I have an image posted on this page featuring the 1926 W&LE freight car fleet:

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/wle-freight-car-fleet-of-1926/

The W&LE cars were built with longitudinal Enterprise hoppers that discharged to the sides (and possibly to the center but I cannot determine that). The cars were rebuilt in the 1930s with traditional hopper bays and doors and all doors pointing towards the center of the car. Dean Payne displayed a Westerfield kitbash at the 2011 RPM-East event.

http://www.pbase.com/ehansmann/image/133620238

I am not familiar with railroads other than the PRR, B&O and W&LE that employed a similar design with new cars.

Eric



Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX

--- In STMFC@..., "cereshill" <cereshill@...> wrote:

Fellas,

I would appreciate confirmation that VGN and N&W operated H21's. If you could also supply car numbers or a webpage for reference I would be grateful.

Thanks,
Brad Andonian


Re: End brackets on CV 40000-series boxcar

Armand Premo
 

Just as good as anything else that has been suggested Dennis, <VBG>Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: soolinehistory
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 11:29 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: End brackets on CV 40000-series boxcar





--- In STMFC@..., "Armand Premo" <armprem2@...> wrote:
>
> What is wrong with Drip Cap?Armand Premo

Why call it something it isn't?

Dennis


Re: End brackets on CV 40000-series boxcar

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Armand Premo" <armprem2@...> wrote:

What is wrong with Drip Cap?Armand Premo
Why call it something it isn't?

Dennis


Re: Train Miniature Hart Gondola

Tom Vanwormer
 

Protowest scale models produces excellent HO scale models of this car.
While not affiliated with the company, I am a very satisfied customer.
Tom VanWormer
Monument CO

Anthony Thompson wrote:



Andy Harman wrote:
I figured it was some AHM car I had never heard of... but later at
the same show I found one new in the box - Train Miniature and the box
tab said it was a Hart
gondola . . . It's a pretty crude model, but it's an unusual car and
I'm wondering how accurate it is and who may have had them and what
they were
used for.
The model isn't too bad except for the underbody truss which should
NOT be flush with the side sill, but back under the car. I can provide
photos of the SP versions to you (off list) if you want.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail,
thompson@... <mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>
Publishers of books on railroad history



Re: Train Miniature Hart Gondola

 

Scott – These cars were built under contract by AC&F. There were at least 3 iterations as the use of steel increased. You can see them in the AC&F disk offered by Westerfield Models LLC from the new owner. – Al Westerfield

From: Scott H. Haycock
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 6:44 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Train Miniature Hart Gondola


Tony,
I didn't realize there were 'versions' of this car. I thought it was a standard design, like the Mathers or Pullman-Standard cars.

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm ent
----- Original Message -----
The model isn't too bad except for the underbody truss which should NOT be flush with the side sill, but back under the car. I can provide photos of the SP versions to you (off list) if you want.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: End brackets on CV 40000-series boxcar

Don <riverman_vt@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Armand Premo" <armprem2@...> wrote:

What is wrong with Drip Cap?Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
From: soolinehistory
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2012 11:43 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: End brackets on CV 40000-series boxcar
Hi Armand,

Primarily that this is in fact a structural member. Were the design history of the car known to us I suspect we would find that while it was designed as a structural member some engineer was sharp enough to realize it COULD also serve as a drip cap and thus designed it accordingly. I am not aware, however, of such parts being designated by a purpose that is actually secondary to their primary
purpose. Thus the term "drip cap" is not properly descriptive.

Most cordially, Don Valentine





--- In STMFC@..., "Don" <riverman_vt@> wrote:
>
> Hi Marty,
>
> Clearly the simple and logical way out of your dilemna is to call the piece the "top end plate" as Dennis originally suggested as that eliminates any confusion as to where a "plate" might be applied, top or someplace lower. Like you, and inspite of the CBC definition, I do not accept the terminology that a "plate" is always the piece on top.
> That might be the case with wooden construction but I doubt it holds with steel owing to its being rolled as "plate steel". This the "top end plate" seems to be the most appropriate description as it served for more than a simple "drip strip".
>
> Cordially, Don Valentine

I can't say I disagree. The term "plate" was initially used in wood car construction, so there was little confusion with "plate" steel.

Also the member across the bottom of car framing is almost universally called a "sill" (side sill, end sill) because in invariably spreads the load and transmits it to the bolsters. This differs from common architectural usage, where the "sole plate" of a stud wall, for instance, serves to space the studs, but doesn't actually distribute their load, and so isn't actually a sill, and therefore isn't called a sill.

Now that we're through the definition of "plate", the distinctive feature of the piece that both CV and CN used is that it's a steel pressing, rather than a length of standard section structural steel.

Dennis





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Train Miniature Hart Gondola

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

An earlier version of this kit (Silver Streak if memory serves) was wood and cardboard with cast metal side trusses that were set back under the car somewhat but not really far enough. The wooden sides came assembled and painted while the metal trusses and all else was unpainted. All the detail was, in my opinion, rather heavy-handed but back in the 1950s it was state-of-the-art.

The prototype of this car was illustrated in more than one Car Builders' Cyclopedia. Because it was handy I'm looking at pages 148 and 150 of the 1922 Cyc. Page 148 has three photos of a C&NW car while 150 has plan and side elevation. There doesn't seem to be an end elevation.

I have a number of Rodger Ballast Car Co. drawings but not this particular car.

Gene Green


Re: Train Miniature Hart Gondola

Clark Cooper
 

Andy:

See the December 2011 Railroad Model Craftsman for a review of the ProtoWest Models resin kit of an early all-wood version of the Hart gondola.

Mid-Continent Railway Museum has a composite version built in 1914, from the CNW. Pictures here:

http://www.midcontinent.org/collectn/woodfrt/cnw96791.html

-Clark Cooper

On Oct 28, 2012, at 1:14 AM, Andy Harman wrote:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261012077998

I picked up one of these at a show last weekend. It was real cheap and I
had never seen anything like it before - and I've pretty much seen about
every plastic freight car. It had no markings indicating the
manufacturer. Painted green with N&W lettering - the half moon logo which
seemed too new for the car. The previous owner heavily weathered it (not
near as bad as the one in the above ebay auction). I figured it was some
AHM car I had never heard of... but later at the same show I found one new
in the box - Train Miniature and the box tab said it was a Hart
gondola. Oddly enough back in the 70s I thought I had bought one of
everything.... but never saw this car before.

I don't think Walthers has ever re-issued it, but maybe it just flew below
my radar. It's a pretty crude model, but it's an unusual car and I'm
wondering how accurate it is and who may have had them and what they were
used for. Maybe add another drop-bottom gondola to my future display shelf
which will just include cool gondolas regardless of era, or even scale (I
still have an unbuilt PBL Sn3 drop bottom). Right now it's going to the
wife's layout since she's the one who found it... if I decide to do a
serious build on one and can find good data, I'll seek out an unbuilt
original kit to start from.

Andy


Re: Naperville RPM 2012 Conference

Pierre <pierre.oliver@...>
 

And I'd like to thank Joe for taking the bull by the horns and subjecting himself to the stresses of hosting this event.
It takes many people to make the event a success, but one poor soul has to lead the charge.
Well done, Joe.
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@..., "alinejoe3" <alinejoe3@...> wrote:

I would like to thank all the attendees, speakers, vendors, my wife and her helper for making the event a great success. Also Bob Kosic and all the modular guys for all there hard work setting up and taking down.
We had 340 attendees this year which was up over last year. New vendors also. Richard Hendrickson and Tony Thompson hosted the Freinds of the Freight Car dinner with Sam Clarke from Kadee Mfg. as the speaker.
Next year will be the 20th Anniversary of the meet, so I will be putting a lot of effort into it to make it a great event for all. We will be posting coverage of this years event and pictures on the web-site soon. Also, as soon as it is available, info about next years Conference with info added all during the year. Looking forward to seeing many new faces.

http://www.railroadprototypemodelers.org/

See you next year
Joe DElia
RPM/Naperville






http://www.railroadprototypemodelers.org/


Re: Train Miniature Hart Gondola

Scott H. Haycock
 

Tony,
I didn't realize there were 'versions' of this car. I thought it was a standard design, like the Mathers or Pullman-Standard cars.


Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm ent

----- Original Message -----
The model isn't too bad except for the underbody truss which should NOT be flush with the side sill, but back under the car. I can provide photos of the SP versions to you (off list) if you want.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Train Miniature Hart Gondola

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Andy Harman wrote:
I figured it was some AHM car I had never heard of... but later at the same show I found one new in the box - Train Miniature and the box tab said it was a Hart
gondola . . . It's a pretty crude model, but it's an unusual car and I'm wondering how accurate it is and who may have had them and what they were
used for.
The model isn't too bad except for the underbody truss which should NOT be flush with the side sill, but back under the car. I can provide photos of the SP versions to you (off list) if you want.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Naperville RPM 2012 Conference

Andy Harman
 

At 07:20 AM 10/27/2012 +0000, you wrote:
I would like to thank all the attendees, speakers, vendors, my wife and her helper for making the event a great success. Also Bob Kosic and all the modular guys for all there hard work setting up and taking down.
As you know I was unable to make it this year. I had some medical "fun" back in Jan-Feb that some of you are aware of that burned both dollars and vacation days to where I've got two months to go and I'm 3 days overdrawn on my vacation time, and even if I could have finagled the days off, the $$ were just too tight.

2013 is a new year... and I'll be going to Cocoa hopefully in good health and with a fresh vacation calendar, and hopefully when next October comes around for the 20th year I'll be there.

I think out of 19 Naperville meets I've been to all but 3 of them.

Andy


Train Miniature Hart Gondola

Andy Harman
 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261012077998

I picked up one of these at a show last weekend. It was real cheap and I had never seen anything like it before - and I've pretty much seen about every plastic freight car. It had no markings indicating the manufacturer. Painted green with N&W lettering - the half moon logo which seemed too new for the car. The previous owner heavily weathered it (not near as bad as the one in the above ebay auction). I figured it was some AHM car I had never heard of... but later at the same show I found one new in the box - Train Miniature and the box tab said it was a Hart gondola. Oddly enough back in the 70s I thought I had bought one of everything.... but never saw this car before.

I don't think Walthers has ever re-issued it, but maybe it just flew below my radar. It's a pretty crude model, but it's an unusual car and I'm wondering how accurate it is and who may have had them and what they were used for. Maybe add another drop-bottom gondola to my future display shelf which will just include cool gondolas regardless of era, or even scale (I still have an unbuilt PBL Sn3 drop bottom). Right now it's going to the wife's layout since she's the one who found it... if I decide to do a serious build on one and can find good data, I'll seek out an unbuilt original kit to start from.

Andy


Re: CP "minibox"

billsoman
 

They have not been released. Targeting early next year per their website http://www.truelinetrains.ca/home/darren-s-blog/thecmtconundrum

Bill Sornsin, Seattle

--- In STMFC@..., "John" <golden1014@...> wrote:

Does anyone have one of these TLT models, and if so can you provide a quality report?

Thanks,
John

John Golden
O'Fallon, IL



--- In STMFC@..., John Riddell <riddellj@> wrote:

More precisely, the CP cars had wood running boards. However TrueLine Trains is also offering the models decorated for the PGE and BCOL.. Many CP cars acquired second-hand by the PGE and BCOL were fitted with metal running boards. So the ad photo presumably shows an undecorated PGE or BCOL model with a metal running board.

John Riddell

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: H21 Hopper Cars: PRR and who else??!

Benjamin Hom
 

Brad Andorian wrote:
"I would appreciate confirmation that VGN and N&W operated H21's. If you could
also supply car numbers or a webpage for reference I would be grateful."

N&W definitely leased Class H21As from PRR, and this is backed by photographic
evidence.  See N&WHS "The Arrow" March/April 1994 issue for details.

I'm less certain about the VGN lease; it's detailed in a short article in the
July/August 1997 issue of The Arrow, but I have not seen any photos of these
cars in VGN lettering.

Most of my magazine library is in storage, and I don't have ready access to
these articles at the moment.


Ben Hom

.


H21 Hopper Cars: PRR and who else??!

Brad Andonian
 

Fellas,

I would appreciate confirmation that VGN and N&W operated H21's. If you could also supply car numbers or a webpage for reference I would be grateful.

Thanks,
Brad Andonian


Re: End brackets on CV 40000-series boxcar

Armand Premo
 

What is wrong with Drip Cap?Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: soolinehistory
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2012 11:43 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: End brackets on CV 40000-series boxcar





--- In STMFC@..., "Don" <riverman_vt@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Marty,
>
> Clearly the simple and logical way out of your dilemna is to call the piece the "top end plate" as Dennis originally suggested as that eliminates any confusion as to where a "plate" might be applied, top or someplace lower. Like you, and inspite of the CBC definition, I do not accept the terminology that a "plate" is always the piece on top.
> That might be the case with wooden construction but I doubt it holds with steel owing to its being rolled as "plate steel". This the "top end plate" seems to be the most appropriate description as it served for more than a simple "drip strip".
>
> Cordially, Don Valentine

I can't say I disagree. The term "plate" was initially used in wood car construction, so there was little confusion with "plate" steel.

Also the member across the bottom of car framing is almost universally called a "sill" (side sill, end sill) because in invariably spreads the load and transmits it to the bolsters. This differs from common architectural usage, where the "sole plate" of a stud wall, for instance, serves to space the studs, but doesn't actually distribute their load, and so isn't actually a sill, and therefore isn't called a sill.

Now that we're through the definition of "plate", the distinctive feature of the piece that both CV and CN used is that it's a steel pressing, rather than a length of standard section structural steel.

Dennis


Re: End brackets on CV 40000-series boxcar

Guy Wilber
 

Dennis wrote:

"I can't say I disagree. The term "plate" was initially used in wood car construction, so there was little confusion with "plate" steel.

Also the member across the bottom of car framing is almost universally called a "sill" (side sill, end sill) because in invariably spreads the load and transmits it to the bolsters. This differs from common architectural usage, where the "sole plate" of a stud wall, for instance, serves to space the studs, but doesn't actually distribute their load, and so isn't actually a sill, and therefore isn't called a sill."


ARA Plate 305 (circa 1930) is titled: END PLATE. The revised 1930 drawing is a pressed 5/16" member with the first leg being 3 1/8" high, inward section 5" in depth and an upper leg 8 1/4" high. The upper leg is cut to the pitch of the roof.


"Now that we're through the definition of "plate", the distinctive feature of the piece that both CV and CN used is that it's a steel pressing, rather than a length of standard section structural steel."


I am not sure if a standard section was ever utilized for this particular member, at least not within the ARA designs. Flat plate was pressed into the "Z". The drawing called out for a 5/16" radius at each of the two bends. Any other member utilizing a standard section is called out as such.


Kindest Regards,


Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada
















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Naperville RPM 2012 Conference

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Oct 27, 2012, at 12:20 AM, alinejoe3 wrote:
We had 340 attendees this year which was up over last year. New
vendors also. Richard Hendrickson and Tony Thompson hosted the
Freinds of the Freight Car dinner with Sam Clarke from Kadee Mfg.
as the speaker.
Joe, that's certainly good news. From an attendee's perspective, I
thought the meeting was a great success, and I look forward to next
year. I may or may not have a clinic, but I'll certainly be there in
any case.

Just as a footnote, the hotel did not comp. the room that Tony and I
had, so if that was your intention, they failed to follow through on it.

Onward to 2013, and muchas gracias for making this meeting possible.
It's a lot of work, and we all appreciate it.

Richard Hendrickson

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