Date   

Re: Adventures with C&BT cars

Clark Propst
 

I'll attach some first of the week to emails on the P-L list. Nutt'n special tho...

Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@..., Rich C <rhcdmc@...> wrote:

Clark, Always looking forward to photos of your completed projects. Always inspiring!
 
Rich Christie


I tipped my cap to Alonzo Mather

Scott Pitzer
 

Today I attended a funeral at Forest Lawn, Glendale, CA. Not long after a former acquaintance had asked me, "Do you still have all those trains?" I noticed a "private room" with a pair of ornate doors, facing the courtyard of their Great Mausoleum, marked ALONZO MATHER.
I resisted the temptation to give the folks a capsule history of his humane livestock cars, and his car leasing company...
Scott Pitzer


Re: Adventures with C&BT cars

 

Clark, Always looking forward to photos of your completed projects. Always inspiring!
 
Rich Christie

--- On Fri, 11/30/12, cepropst@q.com <cepropst@q.com> wrote:


From: cepropst@q.com <cepropst@q.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Adventures with C&BT cars
To: STMFC@...
Date: Friday, November 30, 2012, 6:07 PM



 





I know what you mean Rich, I have enough 'stuff' to complete a few body shells ; ))

About done with this one. Made some doors and added most of the details today. Need to add the running board end supports and set in the underframe, then I can finish the handbrake gear and paint it. Then it's a waiting game till the decals show...

Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@..., Rich C <rhcdmc@...> wrote:

Clark et al, I miss the older CB&T kits that have the seperate ladders. I never use the stock ladders that came with the kits, but its nice to have a clean side and ends to add a third party ladder/grabs etc.
 
Rich Christie

--- On Fri, 11/30/12, cepropst@... <cepropst@...> wrote:


Cocoa Beach roommate wanted

Jared Harper
 

I am looking for a roommate to share a room at Cocoa Beach.

Jared Harper
Athens, GA


Re: Adventures with C&BT cars

Clark Propst
 

I know what you mean Rich, I have enough 'stuff' to complete a few body shells ; ))

About done with this one. Made some doors and added most of the details today. Need to add the running board end supports and set in the underframe, then I can finish the handbrake gear and paint it. Then it's a waiting game till the decals show...

Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@..., Rich C <rhcdmc@...> wrote:

Clark et al, I miss the older CB&T kits that have the seperate ladders. I never use the stock ladders that came with the kits, but its nice to have a clean side and ends to add a third party ladder/grabs etc.
 
Rich Christie

--- On Fri, 11/30/12, cepropst@... <cepropst@...> wrote:


FS New HO Decal from Mount Vernon Shops!

John S. Frantz
 

To Whom It May Concern:
 
Mount Vernon Shops is happy to announce the introduction of the following
new Decal Sets to its line.
 HO Scale PRR F22 and F23 Flatcars. Enough data to do 4 cars. The F22 has been done by Railworks in brass and both th F22 ad F23 have been done as resin kits by F&C. In addition to data for lettering the cars themselves, for those wishing to use the Load Bridges sold by American Model Builders for larger loads, decals are included for the load bridges which were numbered to match the cars they were assigned to. Together, they make this the most comprehensive set ever produced for these cars in HO.

More info here: http://www.mountvernonshops.com/F22.html


Finally, you can purchase my products by ether
emailing me, mailing me an order, or as time permits, I do post most of
my product line on Ebay. Prices are the same regardless of how you
choose to
order. Also shipping is a flat $5.00 whether you order 1 or 10 decal
sets.  Please contact me off list if interested.
 
If anyone has any questions regarding the above product or
any others listed on my website please contact me at the following email: jfrantz@...
 
Thank You and Best Regards,
John Frantz
 
Owner,
Mount Vernon Shops
York, PA
 
York, PA
Crossroads of the Pennsylvania Railroad, Maryland & Pennsylvania and Western Maryland Railroads.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Adventures with C&BT cars

 

Clark et al, I miss the older CB&T kits that have the seperate ladders. I never use the stock ladders that came with the kits, but its nice to have a clean side and ends to add a third party ladder/grabs etc.
 
Rich Christie

--- On Fri, 11/30/12, cepropst@q.com <cepropst@q.com> wrote:


From: cepropst@q.com <cepropst@q.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Adventures with C&BT cars
To: "STMFC" <STMFC@...>
Date: Friday, November 30, 2012, 9:28 AM



 



I remember C&BT coming to Trainfest in Milwaukee with quite a large display, talking to the owner and even buying a couple models.

Lately I made up a model want list based on documented loads that my layout customers would have shipped/received. Came up with 2 C&BT models, both with 12 panel sides.
Stan Rydarowicz sent me a couple 12 panel shells he had. One of the cars on my list was a ATSF 12 panel car. Richard was kind enough to email mme an image. Stan’s bodies had the right sides and ends, but wrong roof. I had to cut it off and add a replacement, among other things. It wasn’t till I was decaling the car that I noticed the side end panels were wider than the rest causing the herald to rest on a seam instead of between two...oh well...

When I was ‘studying’ one of Ed Hawkin’s spread sheets for the other car on my list’s body I noticed that some of the cars marked for 12 panel sides had a W behind the 12. Maybe I now know what that W meant?

The other car on the list was CNJ. The other week a 12 panel model with the right end/roof configuration showed up for sale on the HO Interchange Yahoo group, so I bought it. It has arrived. The CNJ cars were welded, this model ‘had’ rivets. But, the side panels are all the same width. There were a bunch of photos on the CNJ cars on the “fallen Flags” website. Maybe the first 2/3s of the order had 7’ 5 panel superior doors the last 1/3 had Youngstown. The car came with 7 panel Superior doors, so I need to scratch a pair up. Jerry Glow is modifying a CNJ decal set for me. Happy bout that. It will be interesting to see what pitfalls await with this model.
Working with models you’re not that familiar with is an adventure for sure.

Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Brass and resin for sale

buygonet <buygone@...>
 

All:

I have eight lists for brass and resin items left over from the Paul Lyons' estate. Most of the brass is Southern Pacific. The document is an Excel spreadsheet and each list is on a separate "Sheet" which has been named according to the items for sale. Prices have been reduced and are shown on the lists. Please e-mail me off line at ptkoehler at att.net if you would like me to send you a copy the items for sale. Do not respond on this list, as I will not reply.

Paul C. Koehler


Helium cars and paint

Malcolm H. Houck
 

Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:21 am (PST) . Posted by:
_"lnbill" lnbill _
(mailto:fgexbill@...?subject=Re:%20:%20completed%20helium%20car%20model)
Military Modelers commonly use slightly lighter shades of paint to
compensate for what they call "the Scale Effect."

Bill Welch


Back to a mid-1950's MR article John Allen wrote about his techniques
for weathering. As a professional photographer he was more than casually
interested in light, lighting and lighting effects. He made a specific
point of
mentioning that his methods of painting and weathering included lightening
the paint or application; -- all to account for the fact that, in his
opinion, the
interior lighting in which models are most customarily viewed was about
one-fifiteth (his term) the intensity of sunlight.

For myself I also pre-weather painted models by adding a non-specific
amount of white, gray, M-O-W gray, or grime to all base colors. This
serves, in my opinion, to make details less subject to being obscured
and eases the subsequent task of weathering.

The variations in colors and coloring adds a temporal feature to my own
modeling, by suggesting fading (as Tony Thompson mentions) and then
further suggesting that even the same or similar cars may have
undergone painting at differing times in the past, perhaps using paint
formulas of slightly differing composition or aging.

As for black, and especially black used on steam locomotives, I not
only lighten the black with some manner of gray, but I also "warm" the
paint by adding boxcar red as well. I use this to account for the fact
that often models are displayed under fluorescent light tending to green
spectra and absent red light.

Mal Houck


Re: FW&D Boxcar Brake Wheel

Ed Hawkins
 

On Nov 30, 2012, at 12:59 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:

I have had some great help on this list in completing a
FW&D boxcar in the 8300 series. As I am about to complete
the car I have found an end photo of CB&Q car #32611.
This car had a Miner hand brake. Did the FW&D cars also
use this hand brake?
Bill,
According to a number of photos, FW&D 8001-8500 series box cars built
in 1944 came with Ajax hand brakes, wood running boards, steel-plate
brake steps (also possibly Morton but cannot confirm the round holes),
and 8-rung side and end ladders. Doors were either 7-panel Superior
(first 250) or Youngstown (last 250) with the door split of 250 each
being an estimate based on photos.

FW&D 8183 and 8200 appear to have double-truss spring-plankless trucks.
Photos of 8207, 8287, 8415, 8468 show National Type B trucks. The split
of trucks may be 8001-8200 & 8201-8500, but more photos are needed to
confirm. Some of the above information goes against published data in
the Burlington Bulletin No. 7 on XM-32 box cars. Hope this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: FW&D Boxcar Brake Wheel

Benjamin Hom
 

Bill Pardie asked:
"I have had some great help on this list in completing a
FW&D boxcar in the 8300 series. As I am about to complete
the car I have found an end photo of CB&Q car #32611.
This car had a Miner hand brake. Did the FW&D cars also
use this hand brake?"

Help us help you - what type of boxcars are you asking about?  It'll help narrow
down the search.


Ben Hom


FW&D Boxcar Brake Wheel

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

I have had some great help on this list in completing a
FW&D boxcar in the 8300 series. As I am about to complete
the car I have found an end photo of CB&Q car #32611.
This car had a Miner hand brake. Did the FW&D cars also
use this hand brake?

Thanks in advance for any help:

Bill Pardie



Dark model colors [Was: completed helium car model]

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote (in part):
One of the surest ways to make a model look unrealistic is to paint it the exact same color as its prototype.
Hear, hear. This is especially true of dark colors, for the reasons Richard elaborated in his full comment. A "correct" Southern Pacific Dark Olive color, used on passenger cars including head-end cars (thus topical for this list), looks pretty close to black on a model. But color photos of the prototype in sunlight show a visibly green color. Imported brass cars carefully painted the exact prototype color are terribly dark and simply do not look right, which is Richard's point.
I differ with Richard in believing that the correct prototype color is worth pursuing, because it is a good STARTING POINT, but I entirely agree with him that you MUST move on from that starting point to make choices on how much to lighten that color. That's what I did on the helium car.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: : completed helium car model

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 30, 2012, at 5:20 AM, lnbill wrote:
Military Modelers commonly use slightly lighter shades of paint to
compensate for what they call "the Scale Effect."

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Bill Daniels wrote:
I was reading Tony's excellent blogs on the helium cars, and I
remember his comment about painting them using SP lettering grey.
While I cannot fault Tony's choice, I did spend my military duty in
the Navy and one thing I can say for sure is that the Navy painted
EVERYTHING haze grey, which is a medium grey and is somewhat darker
than SP lettering grey. Now Tony's justification for using SP
lettering grey makes sense to me, but for those of you who want to
go with a more maintained color, I would recommend a darker grey
than what Tony used.

Bill noticed that I deliberately chose a lighter gray to reflect
both fading of elderly paint and also the effects of indoor
lighting. I am sure he is correct that the usual Navy medium gray
is the right color if a person were restoring a prototype car, but
in model form I think it looks too dark.
Good grief! Why can't North American railroad modelers wrap their
minds around what Bill aptly calls "the scale effect" when it has
been well understood by aircraft and armor modelers for decades?
This concept goes back at least to 1947, when a group of British
aircraft modelers conducted a series of experiments to determine why
the colors on their models seemed "off" when they were identical to
the colors on the prototype. To oversimplify a bit, they discovered
the following principles:

1. A small object (e.g., a model) will appear darker than a large
object (e.g. a prototype aircraft or railroad car) even though
painted exactly the same color.

2. A small object (e.g., a model) will appear more shiny than a
large object (e.g. a prototype aircraft or railroad car) even though
it has exactly the same reflectivity.

3. The artificial light under which models are almost always viewed
varies in quality and intensity and is NEVER as bright as the natural
sunlight under which the prototypes are viewed.

These principles render the search for the exact color the prototype
was painted not just pointless but in some respects misleading.
Still, that search has occupied a lot of bandwidth on the STMFC list
and continues to do so. Of course, you want to start with something
reasonably close to the original color. But to achieve a realistic
appearance, a model that will be viewed under artificial light should
ALWAYS be a bit lighter, less saturated in color, and less shiny than
the prototype. Does it matter what kind of artificial light? Sure
it does, but that introduces a bunch of other variables about which
it is difficult to generalize. Then there are the effects on color
of aging and weathering, about which it is also difficult to
generalize. Sorry, guys, but painting models and getting them to
look right is not a matter of meticulous research into the prototype
colors, it's an art form. One of the surest ways to make a model
look unrealistic is to paint it the exact same color as its prototype.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: 1000s of Champ HO decals 4Sale

Chris Sawicki
 

Hi Andy- let me know if you have any of these and how many?
 HB315 SP 1937 40' box car (I think)
HC120N PRR MOW black
HC294 PRR F39 TOFC
HX24 PRR R50B
EH78F PRR cab diesels F3/7
 
 
 thanks
Chris Sawicki

________________________________
From: Andy Carlson <midcentury@...>
To: Steam Era <stmfc@...>
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 11:02 AM
Subject: [STMFC] 1000s of Champ HO decals 4Sale

 
Hello everyone,

I have over 1000 sets of Champion Decals which I wish to sell. 97% freight cars,
with boxcars being the predominant number. Far too many to list. If anyone has a
specific Champ set that they are looking for, send me your request with the
Champ #, or at least a short description. I have no Super sets or Blue Ribbon
sets. I am only offering new, usable sets--no junk. I will inspect each set
before shipping.

$3.00/set. (HN sets are $2.00/set) Shipping is $0.90 by 1st class air mail. Buy
4 or more, and free shipping. I accept checks and money orders. For a small
fee, I can also accept PayPal payments.

Contact me off-list @ <mailto:midcentury%40sbcglobal.net> Thanks, and I look forward to
hearing from you.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


1000s of Champ HO decals 4Sale

Andy Carlson
 

Hello everyone,

I have over 1000 sets of Champion Decals which I wish to sell. 97% freight cars,
with boxcars being the predominant number. Far too many to list. If anyone has a
specific Champ set that they are looking for, send me your request with the
Champ #, or at least a short description. I have no Super sets or Blue Ribbon
sets. I am only offering new, usable sets--no junk. I will inspect each set
before shipping.

$3.00/set. (HN sets are $2.00/set) Shipping is $0.90 by 1st class air mail. Buy
4 or more, and free shipping. I accept checks and money orders. For a small
fee, I can also accept PayPal payments.

Contact me off-list @ <midcentury@...> Thanks, and I look forward to
hearing from you.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Adventures with C&BT cars

Clark Propst
 

I remember C&BT coming to Trainfest in Milwaukee with quite a large display, talking to the owner and even buying a couple models.

Lately I made up a model want list based on documented loads that my layout customers would have shipped/received. Came up with 2 C&BT models, both with 12 panel sides.
Stan Rydarowicz sent me a couple 12 panel shells he had. One of the cars on my list was a ATSF 12 panel car. Richard was kind enough to email mme an image. Stan’s bodies had the right sides and ends, but wrong roof. I had to cut it off and add a replacement, among other things. It wasn’t till I was decaling the car that I noticed the side end panels were wider than the rest causing the herald to rest on a seam instead of between two...oh well...

When I was ‘studying’ one of Ed Hawkin’s spread sheets for the other car on my list’s body I noticed that some of the cars marked for 12 panel sides had a W behind the 12. Maybe I now know what that W meant?

The other car on the list was CNJ. The other week a 12 panel model with the right end/roof configuration showed up for sale on the HO Interchange Yahoo group, so I bought it. It has arrived. The CNJ cars were welded, this model ‘had’ rivets. But, the side panels are all the same width. There were a bunch of photos on the CNJ cars on the “fallen Flags” website. Maybe the first 2/3s of the order had 7’ 5 panel superior doors the last 1/3 had Youngstown. The car came with 7 panel Superior doors, so I need to scratch a pair up. Jerry Glow is modifying a CNJ decal set for me. Happy bout that. It will be interesting to see what pitfalls await with this model.
Working with models you’re not that familiar with is an adventure for sure.

Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: : completed helium car model

Bill Welch
 

Military Modelers commonly use slightly lighter shades of paint to compensate for what they call "the Scale Effect."

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Bill Daniels wrote:
I was reading Tony's excellent blogs on the helium cars, and I remember his comment about painting them using SP lettering grey. While I cannot fault Tony's choice, I did spend my military duty in the Navy and one thing I can say for sure is that the Navy painted EVERYTHING haze grey, which is a medium grey and is somewhat darker than SP lettering grey. Now Tony's justification for using SP lettering grey makes sense to me, but for those of you who want to go with a more maintained color, I would recommend a darker grey than what Tony used.
Bill noticed that I deliberately chose a lighter gray to reflect both fading of elderly paint and also the effects of indoor lighting. I am sure he is correct that the usual Navy medium gray is the right color if a person were restoring a prototype car, but in model form I think it looks too dark.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: : completed helium car model

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bill Daniels wrote:
I was reading Tony's excellent blogs on the helium cars, and I remember his comment about painting them using SP lettering grey. While I cannot fault Tony's choice, I did spend my military duty in the Navy and one thing I can say for sure is that the Navy painted EVERYTHING haze grey, which is a medium grey and is somewhat darker than SP lettering grey. Now Tony's justification for using SP lettering grey makes sense to me, but for those of you who want to go with a more maintained color, I would recommend a darker grey than what Tony used.
Bill noticed that I deliberately chose a lighter gray to reflect both fading of elderly paint and also the effects of indoor lighting. I am sure he is correct that the usual Navy medium gray is the right color if a person were restoring a prototype car, but in model form I think it looks too dark.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: : completed helium car model

Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
 

I was reading Tony's excellent blogs on the helium cars, and I remember his comment about painting them using SP lettering grey. While I cannot fault Tony's choice, I did spend my military duty in the Navy and one thing I can say for sure is that the Navy painted EVERYTHING haze grey, which is a medium grey and is somewhat darker than SP lettering grey. Now Tony's justification for using SP lettering grey makes sense to me, but for those of you who want to go with a more maintained color, I would recommend a darker grey than what Tony used.

Bill Daniels

On Nov 29, 2012, at 2:26 PM, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Don Valentine wrote:
This makes into a nice model, Tony, and one that also reaises some questions for me. Some years ago I was given a batch of ACF car drawings. Few were labeled as to the road they were designed for. This makes me further wonder who many of them were actually constructed. Therein lies there relationship to helium cars as one of them is noted to be a helium car. The drawing is not right at hand at the moment but can be dug out. If memory serves there were either two or three rows of stacked tanks with the tanks being larger in diameter than those on your model and being stacked like cordwood.
Does this strike a familiar cord with you or other listees? Might anyone know how many different styles of helium tank cars might have been used and how many different builders constructed them?
No need to wonder about this, as Jay Miller made a superb clinic handout over five years ago, with COMPLETE rosters and photos of all the helium cars built over the decades. I relied on Jay's information in making my model and cited his handout in a couple of posts. But anyone wanting to download it can do so at the following link; scroll down to about the middle of the page (just above the list of helium plants) and you will find a link for the entire handout.

http://www.atsfrr.org/Reviews/HO/Freight/Helium/Index.htm

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

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