Date   

Re: pros and cons of brass bearings?

Des Norman
 

Hi all,
Again in the UK, steam-era freight stock was predominantly 4-wheeled with say a 10-12ft wheelbase. The sprung axle boxes were mounted on separate frames (W-irons), one at each corner.

In model form the axle boxes are often in plastic or white-metal and the axle holes are not necessarily true. So these are drilled out and brass bearings inserted. Some modellers include individual springing, or, particularly in Scalefour (the equivalent of P87), to ensure the 2 axles are parallel but can also cope with any uneven track, the axle at one end and its W-irons are mounted on a subframe which can pivot on the longitudinal axis of the vehicle.

Des Norman
Perth, Scotland

Posted by: "Barrybennetttoo@..." Barrybennetttoo@... barryb2again
Date: Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:21 am ((PST))

Here in the UK the underframes sold for freight cars tended to be moulded
in styrene type plastics, so the brass bearings are to protect the axle
boxes against wear. Much of the newer stock is moulded in engineering type
plastics as in the US market so the brass bearings are becoming very much of an
anachronism.

Barry Bennett
Coventry, England.



In a message dated 15/12/2012 05:17:33 GMT Standard Time, rdkirkham@...
writes:




Having read all the efforts some go to changing out wheel sets in trucks to
get just the right rolling characteristics, I've wondered why I don't ever
see anyone talk about using brass bearings in the trucks. I see them for
sale on many UK OO scale sites - not sure why those modellers needs them and
we don't. they come in shouldered and flush mount, in 2mm size. At the
same time I've wondered about Tichy nylon bearings.

Any one here done testing or otherwise worked with these products? What
worked? What didn't?

Rob Kirkham


Re: Atlanta & West Point rebuilt box cars

James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
 

January 1955 ORER - 55



July 1958 ORER - 54



Jim Brewer

Glenwood MD

----- Original Message -----


From: "al_brown03" <abrown@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 7:14:54 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Atlanta & West Point rebuilt box cars

 




I don't know how long they lasted. The PDS says there were 55 in 1953 (as many as were rebuilt: the series wasn't full); perhaps someone with a newer ORER can help.

BTW, the original single-sheathed series was 37000-37133 (72 cars as of 1/53); the Sunshine PDS contains a photo of A&WP 37813 as rebuilt, so it would appear the new numbers corresponded one-for-one to the old numbers.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@... , "Benjamin Scanlon" <benjaminscanlon@...> wrote:




*single-sheathed

--- In STMFC@... , "al_brown03" <abrown@> wrote:

A&WP 37700-37833 were rebuilt between 1948-53 from Pratt-truss singled-sheathed boxcars dating from the twenties. They had five panels each side of the door and 7/8 "Murphy" ends, and were painted all BCR with white stencilling. This info comes from Sunshine PDS #64E; the kit is #64.78.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

can i ask when these cars lasted in service until?


regards, ben



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: pros and cons of brass bearings?

Barrybennetttoo@...
 

Here in the UK the underframes sold for freight cars tended to be moulded
in styrene type plastics, so the brass bearings are to protect the axle
boxes against wear. Much of the newer stock is moulded in engineering type
plastics as in the US market so the brass bearings are becoming very much of an
anachronism.

Barry Bennett
Coventry, England.

In a message dated 15/12/2012 05:17:33 GMT Standard Time, rdkirkham@...
writes:




Having read all the efforts some go to changing out wheel sets in trucks to
get just the right rolling characteristics, I've wondered why I don't ever
see anyone talk about using brass bearings in the trucks. I see them for
sale on many UK OO scale sites - not sure why those modellers needs them and
we don't. they come in shouldered and flush mount, in 2mm size. At the
same time I've wondered about Tichy nylon bearings.

Any one here done testing or otherwise worked with these products? What
worked? What didn't?

Rob Kirkham

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Atlanta & West Point rebuilt box cars

al_brown03
 

I don't know how long they lasted. The PDS says there were 55 in 1953 (as many as were rebuilt: the series wasn't full); perhaps someone with a newer ORER can help.

BTW, the original single-sheathed series was 37000-37133 (72 cars as of 1/53); the Sunshine PDS contains a photo of A&WP 37813 as rebuilt, so it would appear the new numbers corresponded one-for-one to the old numbers.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., "Benjamin Scanlon" <benjaminscanlon@...> wrote:




*single-sheathed

--- In STMFC@..., "al_brown03" <abrown@> wrote:

A&WP 37700-37833 were rebuilt between 1948-53 from Pratt-truss singled-sheathed boxcars dating from the twenties. They had five panels each side of the door and 7/8 "Murphy" ends, and were painted all BCR with white stencilling. This info comes from Sunshine PDS #64E; the kit is #64.78.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

can i ask when these cars lasted in service until?


regards, ben


Re: Atlanta & West Point rebuilt box cars

Benjamin Scanlon
 

*single-sheathed

--- In STMFC@..., "al_brown03" <abrown@> wrote:

A&WP 37700-37833 were rebuilt between 1948-53 from Pratt-truss singled-sheathed boxcars dating from the twenties. They had five panels each side of the door and 7/8 "Murphy" ends, and were painted all BCR with white stencilling. This info comes from Sunshine PDS #64E; the kit is #64.78.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

can i ask when these cars lasted in service until?


regards, ben


Re: Atlanta & West Point rebuilt box cars

al_brown03
 

*single-sheathed

--- In STMFC@..., "al_brown03" <abrown@...> wrote:

A&WP 37700-37833 were rebuilt between 1948-53 from Pratt-truss singled-sheathed boxcars dating from the twenties. They had five panels each side of the door and 7/8 "Murphy" ends, and were painted all BCR with white stencilling. This info comes from Sunshine PDS #64E; the kit is #64.78.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


--- In STMFC@..., Thomas Baker <bakert@> wrote:


________________________________________
Gentlemen,

Can someone out there provide information on an Atlanta & West Point box car # 37702. I have a decal I purchased from Jerry Glow months ago and cannot recall what type of a box car it should be. The following seems accurate:

1. The box car was a rebuild. After that I still need to know:

1. How many panels on each side of the door, four or five?

2. What type of ends, dreadnaught?

3. 5/5/5 ends or something else?

4. Paint: All box car red or black roof, ends, or what?

Any help would be appreciated. You have been helpful many times before. That's one reason I really do appreciate this list.

Tom Baker


Re: Atlanta & West Point rebuilt box cars

al_brown03
 

A&WP 37700-37833 were rebuilt between 1948-53 from Pratt-truss singled-sheathed boxcars dating from the twenties. They had five panels each side of the door and 7/8 "Murphy" ends, and were painted all BCR with white stencilling. This info comes from Sunshine PDS #64E; the kit is #64.78.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., Thomas Baker <bakert@...> wrote:


________________________________________
Gentlemen,

Can someone out there provide information on an Atlanta & West Point box car # 37702. I have a decal I purchased from Jerry Glow months ago and cannot recall what type of a box car it should be. The following seems accurate:

1. The box car was a rebuild. After that I still need to know:

1. How many panels on each side of the door, four or five?

2. What type of ends, dreadnaught?

3. 5/5/5 ends or something else?

4. Paint: All box car red or black roof, ends, or what?

Any help would be appreciated. You have been helpful many times before. That's one reason I really do appreciate this list.

Tom Baker


Re: pros and cons of brass bearings?

Bruce Smith
 

The ever resourceful folk of Bruceford have been known, as were many other lineside dwellers in the steam era, to salvage the contents from wrecked freight cars. Hopefully, the cargo of said hopper might be useful...

Regards,
Bruce

Bruce Smith,
Auburn AL (and sometimes Buford)

________________________________________
From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...] on behalf of Mike Brock [brockm@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 5:57 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: pros and cons of brass bearings?

Denny Anspach writes:

"Athabaska made some very fine low profile conical brass bearing inserts
designed for styrene E&B passenger trucks, if I recall; and Reboxx also once
made some excellent engineering plastic bearing inserts."

I have at least one pair of Eastern Car Works 70 ton trucks operating on a
UP CH-70-1 [ covered hopper ]. This truck is made of "soft" plastic, is
without any insert, and the metal wheels are expected at some time [ no
doubt during an op session ] to cause a hot box...thus spreading the unhappy
car's contents on Sherman Hill...probably in Brucef...uh...Buford. Believing
that realism is to be welcomed, I look forward to this event...although I
doubt the population [ 1 ] of Buford will be as pleased.

Mike brock



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Re: 70-Ton Barber S-2 plain journal trucks by Red Caboose

rdgbuff56
 

The URL didn't come through highlighted in my e-mail.  I tried https://     http://   https://www. and http://www
None of them worked.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
Sunbury, Pa.



________________________________
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] 70-Ton Barber S-2 plain journal trucks by Red Caboose


 
Francis A. Pehowic wrote:
Richard,
I tried page listed below, it doesn't come up.
I just tried it by clicking on the link, worked fine.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Painting dates

roblmclear <rob.mclear3@...>
 

Hello to all in the group.

I am modelling 1947 on the Santa Fe and the one thing I have trouble with in identifing what cars I should run on the road, is what paint scheme was used when, I am not an expert by any means but I am pretty good with the ATSF and the UP as you would expect modelling the area around Cajon Pass. I also have reasonable knowledge on the Pennsy, NYC, Wabash, Erie and Northern Pacific. However only about one in four freight cars coming over the pass was a home road car, at least that is what my research and assistance from some others on this list has advised.

So looking at that there are going to be a large number of off road cars in the freight trains, so my question is this, is there somewhere where there has been a list or a lexicon of what road used what paint scheme when. I'm sure that some of the people that I have been asking questions of are getting a bit tired of it, despite their gracious efforts and unflinching help. A reference like that would also save me spending litterally thousands on reference books for almost each and every rairoad.

Can anyone advise or assist.

Regards
Rob McLear
Queensland Australia
Sitting and basking, or is that basting, in 95 deg heat today.


Contacting Richard Hendrickson

Nathan Obermeyer
 

I'm trying to contact Richard Hendrickson with a question on a Sinclair tank car that I'm trying to identify. If he could contact me at

obermeyern AT yahoo DOT com it would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

Nate


Re: A Glossary or Lexicon of Terms related to Freight Cars

Larry Sexton
 

Bill,



According to my copy of the 1940 Car Builders CYC, the term is fish-belly
sill, and side sill. I'm not certain about "hatch". If you'd like to borrow
my 1940 copy, and could meet me at the Tampa Fairgrounds train show
tomorrow, you can use it while you are working on your refrigeration book
and look up any of the terms you need. I'll be tied up with finalizing
research and writing my book of my book at least through next summer. I
can't think of a finer person to which to loan my Car Builders CYC. Besides,
I don't particularly like the tone of some of the responses I've read
recently.



Call me tonight or by 12 tomorrow if you'd like to borrow the book.



Larry Sexton

Crystal River, FL



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
lnbill
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 6:02 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] A Glossary or Lexicon of Terms related to Freight Cars





I realize I may be opening a BIG can of worms with the issue I am about to
broach, but on the other hand, perhaps others have wondered about the same
thing. The issue seems more pregnant as I continue to write text and
captions for the book I am working on.

Should it be "fishbelly" or "fish belly" or "fish-belly?" Should it be
"sidesill" or "side sill" or "side-sill?" I could go on. Is a "hatch" the
opening or the appliance that covers the opening?

Maybe everyone else knows the answers and I am only the one too often in the
dark but I sincerely doubt it.

My question then is there a comprehensive resource already in existence that
we can easily access to clarify our questions about terminology, and if not,
are we a group of people that might be willing to trust the results if an
informal editorial board somehow came forward to develop a
Glossary/Dictionary/Lexicon/Manual of Style--call it what we may--that could
serve as a reliable reference? Granted people might disagree, but on the
other hand, and I am not going to put them on the spot by naming them, there
are people on this list that are very familiar with the terms we commonly
use that could do this easily, and with great authority. Of course if people
want to avoid using what is agreed upon, they are free to do so, but many of
us I think would find such a resource invaluable and would use it.

Admittedly, I have more questions than answers plus I really want to spend
my time working on my book but I think it would only require 3-5 people,
off-line of course, to come up with something. One person to coordinate and
"herd the cats" would be necessary, an editor and 2-4 assistant editors if
you will. Does this "speak" to anyone?

Bill Welch


Re: 70-Ton Barber S-2 plain journal trucks by Red Caboose

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Francis A. Pehowic wrote:
Richard,
I tried page listed below, it doesn't come up.
I just tried it by clicking on the link, worked fine.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: pros and cons of brass bearings?

Mikebrock
 

Denny Anspach writes:

"Athabaska made some very fine low profile conical brass bearing inserts designed for styrene E&B passenger trucks, if I recall; and Reboxx also once made some excellent engineering plastic bearing inserts."

I have at least one pair of Eastern Car Works 70 ton trucks operating on a UP CH-70-1 [ covered hopper ]. This truck is made of "soft" plastic, is without any insert, and the metal wheels are expected at some time [ no doubt during an op session ] to cause a hot box...thus spreading the unhappy car's contents on Sherman Hill...probably in Brucef...uh...Buford. Believing that realism is to be welcomed, I look forward to this event...although I doubt the population [ 1 ] of Buford will be as pleased.

Mike brock


Re: pros and cons of brass bearings?

midrly <midrly@...>
 

When I look in the otherwise excellent UK model rail magazines like Model Rail and Model Railway Journal (MRJ authors are as particular about UK steam-era freight rolling stock as we are about North American freight cars--maybe more so), I wonder why Tichy hasn't sold a container or two full of their nylon journal bearings to the Brits instead of those brass journal bearing ("oil box") insert devices that they seem so fond of...

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., "Rob Kirkham" <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

Thank you for explaining Denny. I hadn't realised the friction would be
worse with brass bearings.

Seems the only remaining purpose might be to add wear tolerance in RP'd
trucks.

Rob

--------------------------------------------------
From: "dennyanspach" <danspach@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 11:15 AM
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: pros and cons of brass bearings?

The coefficient of friction between the steel and/or brass axle ends
(journals) and cylindrical brass bearings is greater, probably by a
significant degree, than that between the same axle ends and the
ubiquitous engineering plastic side frames that we mostly deal with these
days. Also, it is pretty uncommon these days to have good wheel sets that
have cylindrical rather than conical axle ends.

The Tichy nylon bearing inserts are pretty good, and are designed to offer
better rolling and wearing characteristics in truck frames made of soft
styrene. The downside is that such use commonly results in either trucks
that with the inserts are too narrow to accommodate almost any commonly
available axle sets, or if they do fit, the truck is far too wide to begin
with.

Athabaska made some very fine low profile conical brass bearing inserts
designed for styrene E&B passenger trucks, if I recall; and Reboxx also
once made some excellent engineering plastic bearing inserts.

All in all, IMHO bearing inserts have little application in the present
world of current freight and passenger trucks, but have found limited use
with imported brass trucks, and the few trucks still being made of soft
plastic.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: Atlanta & West Point rebuilt box cars

Thomas Baker
 

________________________________________
Gentlemen,

Can someone out there provide information on an Atlanta & West Point box car # 37702. I have a decal I purchased from Jerry Glow months ago and cannot recall what type of a box car it should be. The following seems accurate:

1. The box car was a rebuild. After that I still need to know:

1. How many panels on each side of the door, four or five?

2. What type of ends, dreadnaught?

3. 5/5/5 ends or something else?

4. Paint: All box car red or black roof, ends, or what?

Any help would be appreciated. You have been helpful many times before. That's one reason I really do appreciate this list.

Tom Baker


Re: pros and cons of brass bearings?

spsalso
 

These brass bearing inserts might be very useful for trucks made with soft metal sideframes. I think the old Red Ball/Cape Line trucks were made with soft metal. The Brits may well still be producing this kind of truck. They sometime do things a little differently than us.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: A Glossary or Lexicon of Terms related to Freight Cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Gentlemen, allow me to observe that none of us have the RIGHT to scan and post on the internet a "significant" part of any copyrighted book -- unless of course you have obtained permission from Simmons-Boardman, publisher of the Cycs.
The 1922 Cyc, which is now out of copyright, is available on CD from RailDriver.com for Bill Welch or anyone wishing a complete Cyc at reasonable price

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: subclasses of 70-Ton Barber S-2 trucks

brianleppert@att.net
 

The difference is spring travel. S-2A, B and C trucks used long travel springs of 2-1/2", 3-1/16" and 3-11/16", whereas the original S-2 trucks used either the ARA 1915 coils or the AAR 1936 coils, both with about 1-5/8" travel. All spring coils (except 1915) had an O.D. of 5-1/2".

Long travel springs could be used on Barber trucks with spring planks.

The vertical height dimension of the truck bolster end was influenced by the spring travel.

In both industry literature and cast-on lettering on truck side frames, just "S-2" could be used in leau of "S-2A", etc.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV

--- In STMFC@..., SUVCWORR@... wrote:




What are the differences among the Barber S-2, S-2a, S-2b, S-2c. I have noted that the b and c are specified on some PRR cars and was wondering if the differences were so slight that the basic S-2 would suffice?

Thanks.

Rich Orr



-----Original Message-----
From: Mark at Euphoriatt <mark@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 15, 2012 3:51 pm
Subject: RE: [STMFC] 70-Ton Barber S-2 plain journal trucks by Red Caboose


Thanks Richard



Mark



From: Richard Hendrickson [mailto:rhendrickson@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 2:40 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] 70-Ton Barber S-2 plain journal trucks by Red Caboose





On Dec 15, 2012, at 7:22 AM, Mark at Euphoriatt wrote:
What other car would have used this trucks?
Mark, the Barber S-2 was one of the two truck designs that were
widely used from the end of WW II through the '50s (the other being
the ASF A-3), so the 70 ton Barber S-2 was applied to many cars built
for many different railroads, chiefly (but not exclusively) flat
cars, mill gondolas, large hoppers, and covered hoppers. Later in
the '50s, they were also applied to a growing number of 70 ton box,
auto, insulated box, and mechanical refrigerator cars. As Ron
Merrick observes, spring package arrangements varied, but if you'll
look at my HO scale truck handout on the internet at <https://
docs.google.com/file/d/0Bz_ctrHrDz4wMkpBYUw1RjhmRkE/edit?pli=1>,
you'll see that we currently have two choices for 70 Ton Barber S-2s
in HO scale, the ex-Red Caboose truck Andy offers and the Kadee #566,
which has three springs in line at the front of the spring package.
(The Tangent truck mentioned by Ron reprersens an ASF A-3, not a
Barber S-2).

Richard Hendrickson











------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links









Re: A Glossary or Lexicon of Terms related to Freight Cars

Douglas Harding
 

Bill I just checked an online Google 1888 version, the dictionary was 140+
pages long, which may more than anyone wants to scan and upload. Your best
bet would be to download the entire CYC as a pdf which is 74mb in size.

http://books.google.com/books?printsec=frontcover
<http://books.google.com/books?printsec=frontcover&dq=Car+Builders+Cyclopedi
a&ei=vOvMUPGxM8qDyAH_94GIBA&id=Jv7VAAAAMAAJ>
&dq=Car+Builders+Cyclopedia&ei=vOvMUPGxM8qDyAH_94GIBA&id=Jv7VAAAAMAAJ



You might also check out the Car Builders Dictionary

http://books.google.com/books?id=Ah1PAAAAYAAJ
<http://books.google.com/books?id=Ah1PAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Car+Bu
ilders+Cyclopedia&hl=en&sa=X&ei=vOvMUPGxM8qDyAH_94GIBA&ved=0CMMBEOgBMBk#v=on
epage&q&f=false>
&printsec=frontcover&dq=Car+Builders+Cyclopedia&hl=en&sa=X&ei=vOvMUPGxM8qDyA
H_94GIBA&ved=0CMMBEOgBMBk#v=onepage&q&f=false



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

82721 - 82740 of 195395