Date   

Re: Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F

Michael Aufderheide
 

Gene,

Of the 22,350 box and auto cars on the Sante Fe at the time 14,450 were steel sheathed or 64.65%. If it weren't for the March photo date, I would wonder if many of the Bx-3, 11, 12, & 13s were busy in the plains states for the harvest.

Regards,

Mike Aufderheide

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gene" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:

There are fewer single-sheathed box cars than I would have expected. Since the majority of box cars appear to be Santa Fe, to the extent that such a determination can be made, what does that say about the Santa Fe box car fleet?

Did the Santa Fe have fewer single-sheathed box car series?

Had the Santa Fe replaced most of their single-sheathed box cars with all-steel, double-sheathed cars by the time of the photo?

Gene Green


Re: Latest craftsman

O Fenton Wells
 

Thanks Clark, as a coincidence I was just re-reading your articles in Vol
one of Ted Culotta's Prototype Railroad Modeling magezine. Good stuff and
very inspirational. I sure wish Ted could have continued this magazine.
Thanks for the nice thoughts,
fenton

On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 6:29 PM, <cepropst@q.com> wrote:

**


I barrowed a copy of the latest Craftsman to read Fentons article. I
noticed some very nicely weathered cars in the Accurail ad. So far Ive
just looked at Fentons photos. Looks like quite a project. Well done
Fenton!!
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




--
Fenton Wells
3047 Creek Run
Sanford NC 27332
919-499-5545
srrfan1401@gmail.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


NYC Gondola

rdgbuff56
 

On page 42 of the NYC color guide there is a picture of gondola NYC 749592.  It appears to be painted silver.  Does anybody know why?  Sorry I can't find an on-line photo.



Thanks!
Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
Sunbury, Pa.


Latest craftsman

Clark Propst
 

I barrowed a copy of the latest Craftsman to read Fenton’s article. I noticed some very nicely weathered cars in the Accurail ad. So far I’ve just looked at Fenton’s photos. Looks like quite a project. Well done Fenton!!
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Sunshine vinegar tank car

Pierre <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Denny,
The day I stop listening to good advice is the day I should hang up my Xacto knife.
Thanks,
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, dennyanspach <danspach@...> wrote:

Pierre, recognizing that you truly need no advice from me or just about anyone else in how to build models, Bill Darnaby's post on this list some years ago (#20484) and Ted Cullotta (#36207) on building this great car kit were, and still are, gold standards as to how two great modelers approached and completed successfully this extraordinary kit. I also contributed some working notes on the same kit in a post about three years ago (#86281 November 4, 2009).

The most important piece of advice that I learned from Bill, and then slavishly copied, was to deep-six the multitudinous brass wire tank bands, and the clunky process required to bend them, in favor of using nylon monofilament fishing line instead (easily secured with ACC). Although I used some line of the proper diameter found serendipitously wrapped around the propellor of my old ChrisCraft, I determined at the same time that lines of the same weight can have different diameters; so be careful (c. 8-13 lb. line, if I recall).

A broomstick does indeed work in shaping the tank wrapper- for me much better than the PVC pipe included in the kit.

Checking available prototype photos of these cars, the number of tank bands in the kit directions are fewer than the prototype. The ease of using the nylon line allowed me to replicate the correct prototype number.

I substituted PSC handrail clamps for the ones supplied in the kit.

The cast urethane "clamps" for the tank bands in the kit are also crude at best, but still presentable. If I am correct, however, I believe that Tichy has much better bands, which I would have used if I had known about them. The latter "may" also be predrilled, which if so, would void a lot of drilled finger tips.

Denny


Denny S. Anspach M
Sacramento







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Sunshine vinegar tank car

dennyanspach <danspach@...>
 

Pierre, recognizing that you truly need no advice from me or just about anyone else in how to build models, Bill Darnaby's post on this list some years ago (#20484) and Ted Cullotta (#36207) on building this great car kit were, and still are, gold standards as to how two great modelers approached and completed successfully this extraordinary kit. I also contributed some working notes on the same kit in a post about three years ago (#86281 November 4, 2009).

The most important piece of advice that I learned from Bill, and then slavishly copied, was to deep-six the multitudinous brass wire tank bands, and the clunky process required to bend them, in favor of using nylon monofilament fishing line instead (easily secured with ACC). Although I used some line of the proper diameter found serendipitously wrapped around the propellor of my old ChrisCraft, I determined at the same time that lines of the same weight can have different diameters; so be careful (c. 8-13 lb. line, if I recall).

A broomstick does indeed work in shaping the tank wrapper- for me much better than the PVC pipe included in the kit.

Checking available prototype photos of these cars, the number of tank bands in the kit directions are fewer than the prototype. The ease of using the nylon line allowed me to replicate the correct prototype number.

I substituted PSC handrail clamps for the ones supplied in the kit.

The cast urethane "clamps" for the tank bands in the kit are also crude at best, but still presentable. If I am correct, however, I believe that Tichy has much better bands, which I would have used if I had known about them. The latter "may" also be predrilled, which if so, would void a lot of drilled finger tips.

Denny


Denny S. Anspach M
Sacramento


Re: Again, Dry Ice

Tim O'Connor
 

Google is your friend. Ask him.

Many posts cover car construction and where and how dry ice was made. Unless I missed a post, the question still remains of who received dry ice and for what purpose (other than Crystal Ice in metropolitan areas). My model RR is set during mid-WWII, 1942 � 1944. Do I need dry ice service cars?
Thanks, Bill J


Re: Again, Dry Ice

Brad Andonian
 

Rich yoder makes mathieson models and I am sure he can offer guidance

Brad andonian


Again, Dry Ice

Bill J.
 

Many posts cover car construction and where and how dry ice was made. Unless I missed a post, the question still remains of who received dry ice and for what purpose (other than Crystal Ice in metropolitan areas). My model RR is set during mid-WWII, 1942 – 1944. Do I need dry ice service cars?

Thanks, Bill J


Re: Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr. wrote:
Looking back, you are absolutely right on both accounts. Looking over too many photos today. Two of those tanks do seem to have unusually small domes.
One exception to the "2% rule" was for cars which only carried water, since its expansion with temperature is so small. Santa Fe did have a fair fleet of tank cars in water service, and if restricted to that cargo only, could have had smaller domes.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F

ottokroutil
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

On Dec 21, 2012, at 10:16 AM, David Henderson wrote:
Found this on the Shorpy website. Thank you Jack Delano!
http://www.shorpy.com/node/14279

A (typically) spectacular photo by Delano. However, the comment
attached to the photo is seriously misleading. ....
Richard Hendrickson

Another comment refers to "Hill B" in the photo. I believe the shot was taken from the 1st. Street viaduct looking RR east, with the passenger facilities on the left, in which case "Hill B" would be behind the photographer to the right. This photo is one of many Jack Delano photos published in Valle's wonderful book "The Iron Horse at War".
Regards, Otto



Re: Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F

Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
 

Additionally, by 1944, Santa Fe was using large amounts of diesel fuel to fuel their fleet of FT locomotives, especially on the Arizona Division.


 
Bill Daniels
San Francisco, CA



________________________________
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F


 
On Dec 21, 2012, at 10:16 AM, David Henderson wrote:
Found this on the Shorpy website. Thank you Jack Delano!
http://www.shorpy.com/node/14279

A (typically) spectacular photo by Delano. However, the comment
attached to the photo is seriously misleading. Barstow was a natural
connecting point where Santa Fe cars were gathered for reassignment,
since the Los Angeles, Arizona, and Valley divisions all terminated
there. So most of the cars in the photo were not loads in trains but
empties being sorted. Note, for example, the long string of empty
ballast hoppers and gons. As for the tank cars, that's all
locomotive fuel, some destined for Barstow while other cars were
headed east to engine terminals on the Arizona division and north to
engine terminals on the Valley division. It took a lot of bunker C
to fuel all those steam locomotives. Though there were exceptions
(e.g., solid reefer blocks), photos of most trains en route over
Cajon Pass, Tehachapi Pass, passing through Needles, etc. typically
show a proportion of foreign road to ATSF cars on the order of 3 to 1
or 4 to 1.

Richard Hendrickson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Bowser PRR H30

cinderandeight@...
 

Andy,
PRR freight cars were not painted "Tuscan", but rather "Freight Car
Color". FCC was a shade of oxide red, that changed over the years from a
bright red, to a more subdued brownish red with the introduction of artificial
pigments in the 1950's.
Covered hoppers changed from FCC to Gray in about mid-1953; class H33
covered hoppers were still being painted FCC in June of that year. The
color change coincided closely with the change from the circle Keystone to
shadowed Keystone scheme, but not exactly. As such for a few months in 1953,
and early 1954 cars were repainted in the gray color, but lettered in the
circle Keystone scheme. Photos of these transition paint scheme cars are
fairly rare, and as such I am skeptical that Bowser actually has photographs
to substantiate the car numbers they offer. The shadowed Keystone
lettering arrangement for H30 was issued 6/9/54.
Further information is available in Rick Tipton's covered hopper
lettering article in The Keystone Vol. 35 #2 (summer 2002) issue. Interestingly
the two H30's in gray paint/circle Keystone illustrated in that article
are not car numbers produced by Bowser. (255284, 255323).
Rich Burg


Re: Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

There are fewer single-sheathed box cars than I would have expected. Since the majority of box cars appear to be Santa Fe, to the extent that such a determination can be made, what does that say about the Santa Fe box car fleet?

Did the Santa Fe have fewer single-sheathed box car series?

Had the Santa Fe replaced most of their single-sheathed box cars with all-steel, double-sheathed cars by the time of the photo?

Gene Green


Re: Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bruce Smith wrote:
As a note, we have often discussed tank car domes on this list and the size was related to the capacity of the tank to allow a percentage of expansion.
In the era of the photo, the minimum dome size was 2 percent of the compartment to which it was attached. Obviously an insulated dome appears larger on the outside that it is on the inside.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F

rdgbuff56
 

Bruce, 
   Looking back, you are absolutely right on both accounts.  Looking over too many photos today.  Two of those tanks do seem to have unusually small domes.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
Sunbury, Pa.


________________________________
From: Bruce F. Smith <smithbf@auburn.edu>
To: "STMFC@yahoogroups.com" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 12:01 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F


 
Francis,

The domes are on the midline of the car, not offset. You may be mistaking the angle of the photo for that. As for one without a dome, I see domes on all the cars, of varying sizes.

As a note, we have often discussed tank car domes on this list and the size was related to the capacity of the tank to allow a percentage of expansion.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
________________________________________
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [STMFC@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Francis A. Pehowic, Jr. [rdgbuff56@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 8:49 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F

It also seems that the domes are located to one side on most of these cars. If so, is that very common? Also, one without a dome?

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
Sunbury, Pa.

________________________________
From: Steve H <nwicfan@yahoo.com>
To: "STMFC@yahoogroups.com" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F

I was looking at the photo of the tank cars in the Shorpy photo and realized that one of the tank cars must be an Athearn car with its oversized dome. It is the 4th car on the string of cars going away from you. Totally sticks out from the others. Not even close to being realistic.

I don't know about you guys but to me it just seems out of place on his layout. But otherwise it is a really good looking layout.

Steve Hedlund,
Everett WA

________________________________
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F

On Dec 21, 2012, at 10:16 AM, David Henderson wrote:
Found this on the Shorpy website. Thank you Jack Delano!
http://www.shorpy.com/node/14279

A (typically) spectacular photo by Delano. However, the comment
attached to the photo is seriously misleading. Barstow was a natural
connecting point where Santa Fe cars were gathered for reassignment,
since the Los Angeles, Arizona, and Valley divisions all terminated
there. So most of the cars in the photo were not loads in trains but
empties being sorted. Note, for example, the long string of empty
ballast hoppers and gons. As for the tank cars, that's all
locomotive fuel, some destined for Barstow while other cars were
headed east to engine terminals on the Arizona division and north to
engine terminals on the Valley division. It took a lot of bunker C
to fuel all those steam locomotives. Though there were exceptions
(e.g., solid reefer blocks), photos of most trains en route over
Cajon Pass, Tehachapi Pass, passing through Needles, etc. typically
show a proportion of foreign road to ATSF cars on the order of 3 to 1
or 4 to 1.

Richard Hendrickson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F

Bruce Smith
 

Francis,

The domes are on the midline of the car, not offset. You may be mistaking the angle of the photo for that. As for one without a dome, I see domes on all the cars, of varying sizes.

As a note, we have often discussed tank car domes on this list and the size was related to the capacity of the tank to allow a percentage of expansion.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
________________________________________
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [STMFC@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Francis A. Pehowic, Jr. [rdgbuff56@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 8:49 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F

It also seems that the domes are located to one side on most of these cars. If so, is that very common? Also, one without a dome?

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
Sunbury, Pa.


________________________________
From: Steve H <nwicfan@yahoo.com>
To: "STMFC@yahoogroups.com" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F



I was looking at the photo of the tank cars in the Shorpy photo and realized that one of the tank cars must be an Athearn car with its oversized dome. It is the 4th car on the string of cars going away from you. Totally sticks out from the others. Not even close to being realistic.

I don't know about you guys but to me it just seems out of place on his layout. But otherwise it is a really good looking layout.

Steve Hedlund,
Everett WA


________________________________
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F




On Dec 21, 2012, at 10:16 AM, David Henderson wrote:
Found this on the Shorpy website. Thank you Jack Delano!
http://www.shorpy.com/node/14279

A (typically) spectacular photo by Delano. However, the comment
attached to the photo is seriously misleading. Barstow was a natural
connecting point where Santa Fe cars were gathered for reassignment,
since the Los Angeles, Arizona, and Valley divisions all terminated
there. So most of the cars in the photo were not loads in trains but
empties being sorted. Note, for example, the long string of empty
ballast hoppers and gons. As for the tank cars, that's all
locomotive fuel, some destined for Barstow while other cars were
headed east to engine terminals on the Arizona division and north to
engine terminals on the Valley division. It took a lot of bunker C
to fuel all those steam locomotives. Though there were exceptions
(e.g., solid reefer blocks), photos of most trains en route over
Cajon Pass, Tehachapi Pass, passing through Needles, etc. typically
show a proportion of foreign road to ATSF cars on the order of 3 to 1
or 4 to 1.

Richard Hendrickson








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Re: Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F

Thomas Birkett
 

Looks like an insulated car to me, and very ungainly.

Tom Birkett

Bartlesville, OK



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve H
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 2:20 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F





I was looking at the photo of the tank cars in the Shorpy photo and realized that one of the tank cars must be an Athearn car with its oversized dome. It is the 4th car on the string of cars going away from you. Totally sticks out from the others. Not even close to being realistic.

I don't know about you guys but to me it just seems out of place on his layout. But otherwise it is a really good looking layout.

Steve Hedlund,
Everett WA


________________________________
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com <mailto:rhendrickson%40opendoor.com> >
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F




On Dec 21, 2012, at 10:16 AM, David Henderson wrote:
Found this on the Shorpy website. Thank you Jack Delano!
http://www.shorpy.com/node/14279

A (typically) spectacular photo by Delano. However, the comment
attached to the photo is seriously misleading. Barstow was a natural
connecting point where Santa Fe cars were gathered for reassignment,
since the Los Angeles, Arizona, and Valley divisions all terminated
there. So most of the cars in the photo were not loads in trains but
empties being sorted. Note, for example, the long string of empty
ballast hoppers and gons. As for the tank cars, that's all
locomotive fuel, some destined for Barstow while other cars were
headed east to engine terminals on the Arizona division and north to
engine terminals on the Valley division. It took a lot of bunker C
to fuel all those steam locomotives. Though there were exceptions
(e.g., solid reefer blocks), photos of most trains en route over
Cajon Pass, Tehachapi Pass, passing through Needles, etc. typically
show a proportion of foreign road to ATSF cars on the order of 3 to 1
or 4 to 1.

Richard Hendrickson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F

rdgbuff56
 

It also seems that the domes are located to one side on most of these cars.  If so, is that very common? Also, one without a dome?

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
Sunbury, Pa.


________________________________
From: Steve H <nwicfan@yahoo.com>
To: "STMFC@yahoogroups.com" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F


 
I was looking at the photo of the tank cars in the Shorpy photo and realized that one of the tank cars must be an Athearn car with its oversized dome. It is the 4th car on the string of cars going away from you. Totally sticks out from the others. Not even close to being realistic.
 
I don't know about you guys but to me it just seems out of place on his layout. But otherwise it is a really good looking layout.
 
Steve Hedlund,
Everett WA
 

________________________________
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Shorpy and the A.T.&S.F


 

On Dec 21, 2012, at 10:16 AM, David Henderson wrote:
Found this on the Shorpy website. Thank you Jack Delano!
http://www.shorpy.com/node/14279

A (typically) spectacular photo by Delano. However, the comment
attached to the photo is seriously misleading. Barstow was a natural
connecting point where Santa Fe cars were gathered for reassignment,
since the Los Angeles, Arizona, and Valley divisions all terminated
there. So most of the cars in the photo were not loads in trains but
empties being sorted. Note, for example, the long string of empty
ballast hoppers and gons. As for the tank cars, that's all
locomotive fuel, some destined for Barstow while other cars were
headed east to engine terminals on the Arizona division and north to
engine terminals on the Valley division. It took a lot of bunker C
to fuel all those steam locomotives. Though there were exceptions
(e.g., solid reefer blocks), photos of most trains en route over
Cajon Pass, Tehachapi Pass, passing through Needles, etc. typically
show a proportion of foreign road to ATSF cars on the order of 3 to 1
or 4 to 1.

Richard Hendrickson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: UP B-50-32 or 33 builders or as-built broadside photos

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Rob Mondichak wrote:

Looking for a builders photo or good broadside of the original white/yellow paint scheme for the UP B-50-32 cars. Hoping to use for some accurate decals for the Protocraft B-50-32's in their as-built scheme.
Is anyone aware of any?
There is a large broadside of the ROTS side, and a 3/4 view of the SATW side, in Terry Metcalfe's book, _UP Freight Cars, 1936-1951_ and the caption to the broadside says it is UP Historical Collection 14509. You could try the UP Museum in Council Bluffs for a print or scan.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

77081 - 77100 of 189828