Date   

Re: Barber Bettendorf Swing Motion Caboose Truck "options"...

Tom Birkett <tnbirke@...>
 

I have only seen 33" wheels under way cars (cabooses.) Typically they have
25 or 40 ton nominal truck capacity equipment and 36" wheels usually start
at 100 ton nominal capacity. There were some 33" multi wear 100 ton wheel
sets but they were unusual which were still used up until at least 1960.

Tom Birkett

Bartlesville, OK



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Matthew
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 2:58 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Barber Bettendorf Swing Motion Caboose Truck
"options"...





Group,

I'm building a D&H steel caboose in P48. The trucks on the car are Barber
Bettendorf swing motion type. Visually, they appear to have 36" 1W wheels,
rather than the traditional 33" 1W.

Does anyone know if 36" wheels were "optional" in this style truck, or are
my eyes just playing tricks on me?

Thanks in advance,

Matt Forsyth

Modeling the D&H Penn Division/
Erie Jefferson Division in P48


Re: Barber Bettendorf Swing Motion Caboose Truck "options"...

mforsyth127
 

Group,

I'm building a D&H steel caboose in P48. The trucks on the car are Barber Bettendorf swing motion type. Visually, they appear to have 36" 1W wheels, rather than the traditional 33" 1W.

Does anyone know if 36" wheels were "optional" in this style truck, or are my eyes just playing tricks on me?

Thanks in advance,

Matt Forsyth

Modeling the D&H Penn Division/
Erie Jefferson Division in P48


Re: Newbie questions

mforsyth127
 

Matt Keoughan asked:

"I have an Intermountain [O Scale] AAR 40' boxcar with the non W
ends. If I replace the Murphy roof with a flat panel, would it be
accurate for a CN car? If so, is a drop in flat panel roof available?"
Matt,

There is no "drop in" flat panel roof available for the "O" Scale I/M '37 AAR. Only two roofs were made by the Mfg.; Viking, and Murphy raised panel.

You basically have two option, attempt to modify/bash the existing raised panel roof, or build one from scratch.

Matt Forsyth

Forsyth Rail Services
http://mattforsyth.com/


Re: Newbie questions

midrly <midrly@...>
 

Matt--

While Sylvan Scale Models offers an HO scale resin drop-in flat panel and Hutchins roof for CN cars, there is not one offered to my knowledge in O scale.

Fortunately, this roof is a very easy build using sheet and strip styrene. I did this when I ran out of rooves one day... I can send you a shot or two of the real thing on a CN car off list if you like.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., "benjaminfrank_hom" wrote:



Matt Keoughan asked:
"I have an Intermountain [O scale] AAR 40' boxcar with the non W
ends. If I replace the Murphy roof with a flat panel, would it be
accurate for a CN car? If so, is a drop in flat panel roof available?"

Yes. See the linked table and Stafford Swain's article in the August 1993 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman for specific details.
http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/1937aarpdfmain.html

I defer to the O scale modelers on the list regarding availability of
the flat panel roof.
Ben Hom


Re: Newbie questions

Bruce Smith
 

Hi Matt,

Welcome aboard! A couple of things. First, the archives are pretty good (even if the search engine seems like it was designed by someone stuck in Buford) and a search of "red caboose flat" gets lots of hits, including both the article that Ben mentioned and a summary of the findings.... from waaay back on jan 1 of this year in a post by Rob Adams.

Second - "non-W corner"? Isn't that like saying take a non-right turn at the next intersection? <VBG> Wouldn't it be easier to just ask about a square corner end? <VBG> I was confused enough about the recent debate on what we should call these things (I favor round and square corners as that is what I can see and therefore my poor overloaded brain doesn't have to remember what post did what to the exterior end... after all, I've only just managed to memorize the correct direction for Pratt vs Howe trusses!)

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

________________________________________
From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...] on behalf of Matt [downeastrailfan2@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 12:23 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Newbie questions

Hi all. I have questions regarding two O scale kits.

I have an Intermountain AAR 40' boxcar with the non W ends. If I replace the Murphy roof with a flat panel, would it be accurate for a CN car? If so, is a drop in flat panel roof available?

I also have a Red Caboose 40' 10" flat car and I'm wondering which roads owned this car. Directions to reference material would be appreciated.

Thank you.

Matt Keoughan
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia





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Useful Tools

Bill Welch
 

In my presentation on pattern making there was a section on useful
tools. Something I am working on currently reminded me of two other
tools that would be hard to work without.

1.) A Formica file: This is a fairly broad, very straight file with a
very course side and a less course side. I use this for removing
resin or styrene very quickly while maintaining a straight line. It
does require care because the material comes off very fast. Tim
O'Conner mentioned this tool many years ago on this list. I found
mine in the Kitchen & Bath section of Home Depot.

2.) Very fine Sand Paper as in #600, #1000, #1500, #2000. The #600
may be all you need but why not get one of the finer grades if it
right there on the rack. You never know. The #600 basically polishes
out any scratches. I found the 600 and 1500 on the rack at Ace
Hardware. To the best of my recollection I found the 1000 and 2000 at
an auto paint store.
Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
fgexbill@...


West Kentucky Coal Company railroad cars

caboose9792@...
 

I am looking for some assistance on a specific group or groups of cars
Owned By the West Kentucky Coal Company (locomotives were marked WKCCo) A 1922
article,in "The Black Diamond, Volume 69" available from Google books
states they were hopper bottom gondolas and appear to be steel construction with
slope sheets like hoppers but short like gondolas. The cars probably were
built after the tipple and coal handling facility was built at Casyville KY
in the Ohio river to transfer coal to barges in 1907. There were 150 cars
in 1922 from the 1930's there was an undated report among other documents
listing 134 cars in service and was dieselized with an SW8. Part of the
anti-trust settlement the railroad and local assets were sold and became the
Popular Ridge railroad and lasted until 1964 when the last mine abruptly
shutdown. The last of the equipment was removed and sent to scrap and was
reportedly very warn out by a carman that worked for the IC, which had the lines
last connection.

I have not seen an equipment register listing for the line, presumably
because the cars were in captive service. Can someone help?

Thank You,
Mark Rickert


Re: Newbie questions

Benjamin Hom
 

Matt Keoughan asked:
"I have an Intermountain [O scale] AAR 40' boxcar with the non W
ends. If I replace the Murphy roof with a flat panel, would it be
accurate for a CN car? If so, is a drop in flat panel roof available?"

Yes. See the linked table and Stafford Swain's article in the August 1993 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman for specific details.
http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/1937aarpdfmain.html

I defer to the O scale modelers on the list regarding availability of
the flat panel roof.


"I also have a Red Caboose 40' 10" flat car and I'm wondering which
roads owned this car. Directions to reference material would be
appreciated."

See Richard Hendrickson's article in the January 1997 issue of Railmodel Journal:
http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/365/26799/january-1997-page-53


Ben Hom


Re: Atlas car

Benjamin Hom
 

Rob McLear wrote:
"Thanks Ben, I have some spare Branchline roofs here and cutting out
the existing one shouldn't be too much of a drama, might give it a go..."

Don't forget you will need to correct the side sills and add a fishbelly underframe if you have a model that lacks one.


"seems a shame though that Atlas couldn't be a bit more proactive and
get it right seems a shame for the price of the car..."

See the archives for an extensive discussion of this model, which is essentially a copy of the S Helper Service "rebuilt boxcar" copied in N, O, and HO by Atlas. It's an extreme disappointment, especially given the excellent job done by Atlas on their 1932 ARA boxcar variations.


Ben Hom


Newbie questions

Matt
 

Hi all. I have questions regarding two O scale kits.

I have an Intermountain AAR 40' boxcar with the non W ends. If I replace the Murphy roof with a flat panel, would it be accurate for a CN car? If so, is a drop in flat panel roof available?

I also have a Red Caboose 40' 10" flat car and I'm wondering which roads owned this car. Directions to reference material would be appreciated.

Thank you.

Matt Keoughan
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia


Re: Atlas car

roblmclear <rob.mclear3@...>
 

Another loser from Atlas.  The roof is incorrect for the Wabash prototype - it should be a rectangular panel roof.  The prototype is the same as the suggested kitbash for the Tichy rebuilt boxcar that I posted several days ago.  It's up to you to decide whether it's "too hard" - correcting this car would require cutting away the roof and replacing it with a rectangular panel roof from another source (Red Caboose/IMWX modified to fit the Atlas model, for example).


Ben Hom
Thanks Ben, I have some spare Branchline roofs here and cutting out the existing one shouldn't be too much of a drama, might give it a go, seems a shame though that Atlas couldn't be a bit more proactive and get it right seems a shame for the price of the car...

Thanks
Rob McLear.


Re: Grain Clips/lining anti-bulge plates type devices

al_brown03
 

Seaboard's S-1 stock cars had little metal plates on the bottom slat, one in each panel (total six per side). I don't think they were there for grain, but in case the normal lading took to kicking the slat.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., "lnbill" wrote:

I meant to comment by whatever name these device are correctly called, similar small metal plates were riveted in place on the Clinchfield's War Emergency two-bay hoppers when they were built. They were in place to protect the very top and bottom boards in each bay or pocket.

I almost missed this feature in the process of building & upgrading two undec. models, but caught my oversite before I painted them. They make for a nice little detail difference in what was an otherwise standard design.

Bill Welch


Grain Clips/lining anti-bulge plates type devices

Bill Welch
 

I meant to comment by whatever name these device are correctly called, similar small metal plates were riveted in place on the Clinchfield's War Emergency two-bay hoppers when they were built. They were in place to protect the very top and bottom boards in each bay or pocket.

I almost missed this feature in the process of building & upgrading two undec. models, but caught my oversite before I painted them. They make for a nice little detail difference in what was an otherwise standard design.

Bill Welch


Re: Tichy rebuilt USRA boxcar DIVERSION

Tim O'Connor
 

True, but you have to pay for it.

At 1/23/2013 10:58 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
Folks,

Remember too that the RPI site has much of this information, already.

Regards
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
________________________________________
From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...] on behalf of tgregmrtn@... [tgregmrtn@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 9:18 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tichy rebuilt USRA boxcar DIVERSION

Tim,

The kinds of spread sheets I was alluding to was the one that attempt to
tell us what railroad best fits the kits that are available ~at a given
moment in time~ as there is just not enough time to do it justice. I think that
the best one can expect is to have a group in a given historical society to
do that and even that is no easy task. One issue that comes up is that the
kits disappear as manufactures come and go. Think of just how nice the old
Kurtz Kraft PS-1 kit WAS. Yeah you can find them from time to time, but
the reality is it's gone. Then there are the issues of certain kits loosing
their "shelf appeal" at your local hobby shop, most are not sophisticated
enough to tell you what they had originally, which were the best seller or
how long they were on the shelf or when to buy back in.

If I mislead anyone that I don't appreciate all the prototype spread sheets
like those of Ed Hawkins or Ben Hom have prepare, take my most humble
apologies, these are truly a dream to have.

Greg Martin

Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean


In a message dated 1/23/2013 8:43:37 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
timboconnor@... writes:




Greg

lol. I am extremely appreciative of the folks who have compiled
massive amounts of information (Ed Hawkins in particular) into
spreadsheets and then shared them with us -- they are invaluable
resources! But there is no way I could create such documents, and
if I did, they'd be full of errors. I did proofread one or two of
Ed's spreadsheets and I think I may have helped him with one or two
of the thousands of entries... That's about all I can do since
almost ALL of my information is derivative -- books, magazines,
emails, etc. Sometimes I've seen photos others have not, and I'm
happy to share that information too.

By mentioning Ed, I am not diminishing the other illustrious
researchers here on STMFC. They are legion. :-)

Tim O'Connor

Ben and all.

I was thinking the same thing... Seems like we bring up some excuse or as
Ben says a "DIVERSION" like making a spread sheet project for some kind of
information that would involve collectively tons of hours, when what we
should be doing is more modeling and joining together to accomplish a single
project in a short period of time, like a year...

I would just like to have a normal job, with normal people (but hey what
is normal in a world of nepotism) and have enough of my own time to finish
more than one or two projects in a years time... Spread Sheets? We don't
need no stinking Spread Sheets...

Greg Martin










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Re: Atlas car

Benjamin Hom
 

Ro McLear asked:
"Whilst we are on the subject of boxcars I thought I would ask some of the
experts on this list as to the relative merits of the Atlas USRA steel rebuilt
boxcar in the Wabash scheme, it appears to have the 7/8 ends of the prototype
and looks similar to my eye to the Sunshine kit of the same prototype. Car
number 82309 and Atlas stock number 6419-2
it can be found here...

https://secure.atlasrr.com/mod1/itemdesc.asp?ic=6419%2D2&eq=&Tp=

now I'm definately no expert but how close does this car come to the prototype,
you can't see the underframe on the car so I don't know if it has the fishbelly
frame of the prototype or not, if not is it an easy mod to make to the Atlas car

to bring it up to standard or should I just put it in the too hard bin and do
without."

Another loser from Atlas.  The roof is incorrect for the Wabash prototype - it
should be a rectangular panel roof.  The prototype is the same as the suggested
kitbash for the Tichy rebuilt boxcar that I posted several days ago.  It's up to
you to decide whether it's "too hard" - correcting this car would require
cutting away the roof and replacing it with a rectangular panel roof from
another source (Red Caboose/IMWX modified to fit the Atlas model, for example).


Ben Hom


Atlas car

roblmclear <rob.mclear3@...>
 

Hi to all

Whilst we are on the subject of boxcars I thought I would ask some of the experts on this list as to the relative merits of the Atlas USRA steel rebuilt boxcar in the Wabash scheme, it appears to have the 7/8 ends of the prototype and looks similar to my eye to the Sunshine kit of the same prototype. Car number 82309 and Atlas stock number 6419-2
it can be found here...

https://secure.atlasrr.com/mod1/itemdesc.asp?ic=6419%2D2&eq=&Tp=

now I'm definately no expert but how close does this car come to the prototype, you can't see the underframe on the car so I don't know if it has the fishbelly frame of the prototype or not, if not is it an easy mod to make to the Atlas car to bring it up to standard or should I just put it in the too hard bin and do without. Getting Sunshine cars into Australia is almost an impossibility.

Regards
Rob McLear.


Re: Tichy rebuilt USRA boxcar

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "etuson" wrote:

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

I distinctly recall Al Westerfield saying, when he produced his kits for the USRA box cars, that the published drawings did not accurately represent the cars as built, based on the builders' photos.
The primary difference, that I am aware of, between the published drawings and the production cars is in relation to the end sill. The drawings (reprinted in RPC Vol 16, page 8, and Vol 17, page 2,) show a 9" channel end sill that was simply not used. I would certainly welcome comments on other deviations.

Builders photos of the SS cars show that they were generally stenciled with a 9' 3 1/4" width at eaves dimension. The DS cars either show that number or, at a comparable frequency, a width across eaves of 9' 4". If one were to round that important clearance dimension to the nearest inch for stenciling simplicity's sake, you'd best round it up! However, some cars with rebuilt roofs show a eave width of 9' 6", and perhaps that is were Ben recalled the larger dimension from. In those cases, the wider roof can be observed.

Earl Tuson
That would undoubtedly be the DS cars. Builder's photos of the USRA DS cars show they have no fascia; the sheet metal strip that the roof panels hook into is applied directly to the top of the car siding. Later in-service photos from several roads show a nominal 1" fascia; given that clearance dimensions were typically rounded up to the nearest inch, that would account for the two inch difference. I suspect the railroads found it difficult to replace car siding without damaging the edge of the metal roof, and added the fascia to remedy the problem.

I modeled the fascia on the Accurail model.

Dennis


Re: Tichy rebuilt USRA boxcar

Earl Tuson
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

I distinctly recall Al Westerfield saying, when he produced his kits for the USRA box cars, that the published drawings did not accurately represent the cars as built, based on the builders' photos.
The primary difference, that I am aware of, between the published drawings and the production cars is in relation to the end sill. The drawings (reprinted in RPC Vol 16, page 8, and Vol 17, page 2,) show a 9" channel end sill that was simply not used. I would certainly welcome comments on other deviations.

Builders photos of the SS cars show that they were generally stenciled with a 9' 3 1/4" width at eaves dimension. The DS cars either show that number or, at a comparable frequency, a width across eaves of 9' 4". If one were to round that important clearance dimension to the nearest inch for stenciling simplicity's sake, you'd best round it up! However, some cars with rebuilt roofs show a eave width of 9' 6", and perhaps that is were Ben recalled the larger dimension from. In those cases, the wider roof can be observed.

Earl Tuson


Re: Tichy rebuilt USRA boxcar

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jan 24, 2013, at 1:41 PM, Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:
Earl Tuson wrote:
"Can you provide references than show that the USRA DS cars had wider roofs than

USRA SS cars? Drawings of the the cars in CBC's do not support your statement."

Interesting! A common roof for both the wider DS and more narrow SS cars.
Pending any objections from Al Westerfield, I'll defer to your CBC findings.
Ben, Earl, and others. I distinctly recall Al Westerfield saying, when he produced his kits for the USRA box cars, that the published drawings did not accurately represent the cars as built, based on the builders' photos. I don't know whether the errors included the dimensions under discussion - maybe Al will chime in here - but he asserted at that time that not only the drawings in the Cycs but drawings based on them (e.g., by Bob Hundman) and used by manufacturers of other models were wrong. So be cautious. As Chuck Yungkurth, a draftsman of many years experience, used to warn us periodically, changes were often made at the last minute, or on the shop floor, and the drawings were never corrected.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Updated Roster Lists (was: 1937 Modified and Unmodified AAR Box Car)

Aley, Jeff A
 

Hi Ed,

I invite you to upload your famously helpful spreadsheet to the STMFC Yahoo!Group's "FILES" section.

Please contact me if you'd like assistance with doing so.

Regards,

-Jeff Aley
Deputy Moderator, STMFC

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Ed Hawkins
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 2:10 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Updated Roster Lists (was: 1937 Modified and Unmodified AAR Box Car)



More specifically this relates to the recent STMFC discussions of 1932
A.R.A., 1937 A.A.R. (i.e., 10' IH), and Modified 1937 A.A.R. (i.e.,
10'-4" to 10'-6" IH) box cars built from circa 1933-1946. Since 2002
rosters of these three categories of box cars that I originally
compiled have been available from the STMFC web site for downloading
and anyone's personal use. Admittedly, some of the data may be either
incorrectly defined or misleading. Despite making many revisions to my
roster lists over the past 10 or so years, unfortunatly, to my
knowledge the lists have not been updated on the STMFC web site since
their original 2002 submissions.

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