Date   

Re: Atlas plugdoor boxcar

rwitt_2000
 

I have searched the archives, but can find no comments about this model
after it actually appeared in December 2012.

Granted it is a Trainman product from Atlas with cast on details, but
does body of the model match the prototype as discussed last May and can
it be readily upgraded to meet prototype modelers' standards?

Regards,

Bob Witt

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:


On May 19, 2012, at 11:10 PM, steel77086@... wrote:

Thanks for the information on this car.
Vince,
Something I neglected to mention in my previous reply was the
reporting
marks for these Fruit Growers Express 40' insulated box cars, which
was
RBNX. Over a 10 year period there were 2,394 cars of essentially the
same design, but with several variations, built by three builders
(PC&F, FGE, AC&F). More than 2,000 of them were built within the time
period of this discussion group.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Derby Oil Company Tank Car Photos

railsnw@frontier.com <railsnw@...>
 

I'd like to thank Perry, Doug and Richard for replys to my question on Derby Oil Co. tank cars. I have created a pdf file with three photos I have of Derby Oil cars DOX 113, 155, and 401. The pdf is in the files section under the name Derby Oil Co.

If someone could provide a scan of the ORER for the 1920's and 1930's listing the DOX cars it would be appreciated.

Richard Wilkens

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

On Mar 17, 2013, at 8:07 PM, railsnw@... wrote:
Anyone know of photos of tank cars operated by the Derby Oil Co. of Wichita, KS? Reporting marks would be DOX.

Richard, I have two photos of Derby cars and scans are attached.

The first is dated 4-5-37 and shows the car with numbers and data painted out. As it's standing next to a GATX car, I'll risk speculating that the photo was taken at the time the the car was in the process of being integrated into the GATX fleet. For what it's worth, my 7-35 ORER has a separate entry for cars owned by the Derby Oil Co. but my 10-38 ORER shows tank cars under DOX reporting marks under the GATC entry.
The car was an 8,000 gal. Standard Tank Car Co. car; note the arch bar trucks, still legal in interchange at that time. Photographer unknown, Bob's Photo Service collection.

The second is undated but the repacking stenciling appears to read 1944. It's a George Sisk photo from the Charles Winters collection. The car was an AC&F Type 11, ARA class II, and appears to have just been purchased second-hand, as it has large patches of fresh paint and no data stenciling.

I hope these may be useful.

Richard Hendrickson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Roller Bearing Trucks used by the FGE/WFE/BRE System beginning in 1953

Bill Welch
 

Beginning with their construction of what I call their standard
design 50-ft Mechanical reefer, the FGE/WFE/BRE System began to equip
for the first time cars with roller bearing trucks. All 3 companies
built car of this standard design in 1953, 50 each by FGE and WFE and
30 for BRE, all built at Alexandria, Virginia. Eventually they built
1100 cars with the RB trucks by 1957. These were unique among the
fleet in terms of their trucks. I have copies of ads from both Timken
and Hyatt touting the FGE/WFE/BRE System's use of their products.

While these cars did go "off-line" FGE/WFE/BRE tried to make sure
they did not go "off-system" because they were keeping a very close
watch on the mechanical systems of the cars, or so I thought. The
discussion of RB trucks is causing me to wonder if it was not the two
new technologies they were worried about, and by keeping them on the
system, they could monitor and supervise any required maintenance. I
am going to have to revisit the company records I have to see if I
can find anything more definitive. I have a somewhat humorous
anecdote in my chapter about these cars and the Illinois Central's
attempt to route one of the mechanicals along their line. In this
particular case it was clear the FGE person was worried about a
railroad getting their hands on either the diesel engine or the
refrigeration system with no training to work on either.

FGE's aluminum reefer, FGEX 40000, built in 1946 rode on Andrews
roller bearing trucks. I assume this will be mentioned in the
upcoming RP CYC with its article on aluminum cars.

Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727-470-9930
fgexbill@tampabay.rr.com


Re: Big Four steel hoppers

Scott H. Haycock
 

Thanks Ben


I found a drawing of a SSC hopper that almost exactly matches the diagram in the 1919 CBC, on page 307(book page 289) here: http://ebook.lib.hku.hk/CADAL/B3139551X/
could this drawing be used as a reasonable comparison for modeling purposes, lacking a photograph?


Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm ent

----- Original Message -----







Scott Haycock asked:
"So I noticed a picture in the New Products section of the NYCS e-
zine of a hopper in a billboard lettering scheme for the Big Four
from Accurail. Can anyone comment on the time frame for this
lettering scheme?"

Eric Hansmann replied:
"I sense this Big Four paint and lettering scheme predated the USRA
hopper arrival by a decade or more. Here's a link to the Accurail
artwork, which is a larger image:
http://www.accurail.com/accurail/ART/2400/2423.jpg
Note the artwork has a new date of 9-07."

This model is a stand-in for CCC&StL 74700-74949, Lot 207-H, 250 cars
30 ft IL, 10 ft to top chord above rail 7-side stake cars built by
SSC in 1907.
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-207.jpg

Scott Haycock asked:
"This question came up on another list, but concerning this billboard
type paint scheme on 2-bay offset side hoppers. The issue of how long
this scheme may have been around was not resolved then, so I was
hoping for a more definitive answer on this list."

Short a photo, you're not going to get a definitive answer. However,
if you're after plausibility, consider the following factors.

- Early steel cars were vulnerable to corrosion due to the type of steel used at the time, so the side sheets on coal hoppers in
particular required replacement after a comparatively short period of
time.

- 50 of these cars were sold to the P&E in January 1924 (P&E 3300-
3349), so we can infer that these cars would have been relettered for
the P&E.

Ben Hom




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


2013 NE Proto Meet

Dave Owens
 

Folks:

This year's New England/Northeast Prototype Modelers Meet is Friday
and Saturday, May 31-June 1, at the Canton Community Center.
We're planning a full array of clinics and programs, a DCC roundtable,
at least one hands-on clinic, our white elephant table, and a host of
great manufacturers and vendors, including Bob's Photo, Ron's Books,
Funaro & Camerlengo, Motrak Models, Sheepscot Scale Models, Atlas,
Rapido, and True Line Trains. We'll also have layout open houses on
Sunday, June 2.

Please visit our website for registration information. You can also
join us at Facebook.com/nerpm.

Any questions? Please contact me.

Dave Owens
West Hartford, Conn.


--
2013 New England/Northeast Prototype Modelers Meet
May 31-June 1, 2013 (Always the weekend after Memorial Day)
Collinsville, Connecticut
www.neprototypemeet.com
www.facebook.com/NERPM


Re: Big Four steel hoppers

Benjamin Hom
 

Scott Haycock asked:
"So I noticed a picture in the New Products section of the NYCS e-
zine of a hopper in a billboard lettering scheme for the Big Four
from Accurail. Can anyone comment on the time frame for this
lettering scheme?"

Eric Hansmann replied:
"I sense this Big Four paint and lettering scheme predated the USRA
hopper arrival by a decade or more. Here's a link to the Accurail
artwork, which is a larger image:
http://www.accurail.com/accurail/ART/2400/2423.jpg
Note the artwork has a new date of 9-07."

This model is a stand-in for CCC&StL 74700-74949, Lot 207-H, 250 cars
30 ft IL, 10 ft to top chord above rail 7-side stake cars built by
SSC in 1907.
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-207.jpg

Scott Haycock asked:
"This question came up on another list, but concerning this billboard
type paint scheme on 2-bay offset side hoppers. The issue of how long
this scheme may have been around was not resolved then, so I was
hoping for a more definitive answer on this list."

Short a photo, you're not going to get a definitive answer. However,
if you're after plausibility, consider the following factors.

- Early steel cars were vulnerable to corrosion due to the type of steel used at the time, so the side sheets on coal hoppers in
particular required replacement after a comparatively short period of
time.

- 50 of these cars were sold to the P&E in January 1924 (P&E 3300-
3349), so we can infer that these cars would have been relettered for
the P&E.


Ben Hom


Re: Big Four steel hoppers

Scott H. Haycock
 

Thanks, Eric


This question came up on another list, but concerning this billboard type paint scheme on 2-bay offset side hoppers. The issue of how long this scheme may have been around was not resolved then, so I was hoping for a more definitive answer on this list.


Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm ent

----- Original Message -----





Scott Haycock wrote:

So I noticed a picture in the New Products section of the NYCS e-zine of a hopper in a billboard lettering scheme for the Big Four from Accurail. Can anyone comment on the time frame for this lettering scheme?

===========================

Scott,

I sense this Big Four paint and lettering scheme predated the USRA hopper arrival by a decade or more. Here's a link to the Accurail artwork, which is a larger image:

http://www.accurail.com/accurail/ART/2400/2423.jpg

Note the artwork has a new date of 9-07.

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Big Four steel hoppers

Eric Hansmann
 

Scott Haycock wrote:

So I noticed a picture in the New Products section of the NYCS e-zine of a hopper in a billboard lettering scheme for the Big Four from Accurail. Can anyone comment on the time frame for this lettering scheme?

===========================


Scott,

I sense this Big Four paint and lettering scheme predated the USRA hopper arrival by a decade or more. Here's a link to the Accurail artwork, which is a larger image:

http://www.accurail.com/accurail/ART/2400/2423.jpg

Note the artwork has a new date of 9-07.

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX


Re: covered Hoppers

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 19, 2013, at 7:38 AM, soolinehistory <destorzek@mchsi.com> wrote:



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, caboose9792@... wrote:

That would be odd given the railroads were happily equipping there
passenger equipment since the 30's with roller bearings, particularly the
lightweight cars, and they would become mandatory on new construction in 1966 on
freight cars.

Mark Rickert


In a message dated 3/18/2013 5:07:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
destorzek@... writes:

That's Ninties-think. Back in the fifties, roller bearings were still
pretty much an unknown quantity.
OK, I concede, not nineties-think, but not the prevailing attitude during the fifties either, at least not until after 1954, when Timken introduced their AP "All Purpose" lubricated-for-life and sealed bearing. This finally prompted the AAR to recommend them for use on interchange freight cars in 1956.

Yeah, roller bearings had been used in railroad applications since the thirties, but were typically used in applications where the equipment was more or less captive; locomotives and passenger cars. In their initial form, roller bearings required periodic oil changes, done to a level of cleanliness totally foreign to a railroad RIP track.

Aside from the feeling that "other roads" would garner all the benefits of the expensive bearings, I can't help but wonder if there were also concerns about the level of maintenance they would receive on foreign roads.
I'm late coming to this discussion, having been on the road for several days, but I have to chip in here, having spent a lot of time lately studying the history of freight car truck development. Everything Dennis says is (as usual) exactly right. Looking at the 1950s from the perspective of the 21st century is almost certain to distort one's understanding. Installing roller bearings on cars in captive service (e.g., almost all passenger cars) was one thing; the railroad could make provisions to insure that they were properly maintained. Sending roller-bearing-equipped cars off-line in interchange was an entirely different matter, especially with no control over where they went or how long they would be gone.

I've been told that when roller-bearing-equpped UP DLS stock cars went off-line briefly, as they occasionally did, they sometimes came back with their journal boxes full of solid-bearing journal oil, as pouring oil indiscriminately into journal boxes was what carmen routinely did on every car that came past them. Painting the journal box covers aluminum on what were otherwise standard AAR freight car trucks was meaningless except to the UP's own employees (and probably meaningless to many of them unless they worked on the LA&SL and were involved in DLS service).

There were good, practical reasons (apart from cost) why the railroads were reluctant to adopt roller bearings on freight cars in interchange until the growing number of free-roaming100 ton covered hoppers forced the issue.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: covered Hoppers

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, caboose9792@... wrote:

That would be odd given the railroads were happily equipping there
passenger equipment since the 30's with roller bearings, particularly the
lightweight cars, and they would become mandatory on new construction in 1966 on
freight cars.

Mark Rickert


In a message dated 3/18/2013 5:07:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
destorzek@... writes:

That's Ninties-think. Back in the fifties, roller bearings were still
pretty much an unknown quantity.

OK, I concede, not nineties-think, but not the prevailing attitude during the fifties either, at least not until after 1954, when Timken introduced their AP "All Purpose" lubricated-for-life and sealed bearing. This finally prompted the AAR to recommend them for use on interchange freight cars in 1956.

Yeah, roller bearings had been used in railroad applications since the thirties, but were typically used in applications where the equipment was more or less captive; locomotives and passenger cars. In their initial form, roller bearings required periodic oil changes, done to a level of cleanliness totally foreign to a railroad RIP track. Model Die Casting used to make an HO scale model of a freight (or express box) truck equipped with oil lubricated roller bearings, but I don't know if it is still available.

Aside from the feeling that "other roads" would garner all the benefits of the expensive bearings, I can't help but wonder if there were also concerns about the level of maintenance they would receive on foreign roads. In recent years, improper maintenance of the bearings on a private owner passenger cars has caused at least one road to refuse to handle not only anything without roller bearings, but anything without SEALED roller bearings.

Dennis


Re: covered Hoppers

caboose9792@...
 

That would be odd given the railroads were happily equipping there
passenger equipment since the 30's with roller bearings, particularly the
lightweight cars, and they would become mandatory on new construction in 1966 on
freight cars.

Mark Rickert

In a message dated 3/18/2013 5:07:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
destorzek@mchsi.com writes:

That's Ninties-think. Back in the fifties, roller bearings were still
pretty much an unknown quantity.

Savings from no need to re-pack, yes, but not from no need to oil, because
the oiling equipment still needed to be on the hump approaches, and the
carmen still need to carry oil down the train during inspection because of
the cars not equipped with roller bearings, which in 1959 was still most of
them.
Until the introduction of the Timken AP sealed bearing in 1954, roller
bearings also needed to have their oil checked, but the proper oil was
different from the common "journal oil", so there was always a question if these
expensive bearings would be serviced properly on foreign roads.

Dennis


Thank you - Re: Archer rivets and microblasting

Ned Carey
 

Thank you to all that replied to my question about archer and blasting.

I have been to busy to do any modeling but when I get to it I will report back what I did and my results.

Ned


Re: Derby Oil Company Tank Car Photos

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 17, 2013, at 8:07 PM, railsnw@frontier.com wrote:
Anyone know of photos of tank cars operated by the Derby Oil Co. of Wichita, KS? Reporting marks would be DOX.

Richard, I have two photos of Derby cars and scans are attached.

The first is dated 4-5-37 and shows the car with numbers and data painted out. As it's standing next to a GATX car, I'll risk speculating that the photo was taken at the time the the car was in the process of being integrated into the GATX fleet. For what it's worth, my 7-35 ORER has a separate entry for cars owned by the Derby Oil Co. but my 10-38 ORER shows tank cars under DOX reporting marks under the GATC entry.
The car was an 8,000 gal. Standard Tank Car Co. car; note the arch bar trucks, still legal in interchange at that time. Photographer unknown, Bob's Photo Service collection.

The second is undated but the repacking stenciling appears to read 1944. It's a George Sisk photo from the Charles Winters collection. The car was an AC&F Type 11, ARA class II, and appears to have just been purchased second-hand, as it has large patches of fresh paint and no data stenciling.

I hope these may be useful.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: 2nd Qtr. 2013 NYCentral Modeler Uploaded on NYCSHS Website

Noel Widdifield <NYCBigFour@...>
 

Scott,
I ordered a pair of them when I was doing the writeup, so we will see if they ever ship.
Thanks, Noel

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Scott H. Haycock " <shhaycock@...> wrote:

While this is an important issue, I believe we should continue it, if needed, off list.


Mike, as soon as he's finished his morning coffee, is likely to threaten us with some form of jail...


So I noticed a picture in the New Products section of the NYCS e-zine of a hopper in a billboard lettering scheme for the Big Four from Accurail. Can anyone comment on the time frame for this lettering scheme?


Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm ent
----- Original Message -----





Not true. I am using IE8 and it worked fine for me.

Schuyler

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto: STMFC@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Noel
Widdifield
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 7:13 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] 2nd Qtr. 2013 NYCentral Modeler Uploaded on NYCSHS Website

The problem people are having downloading this edition is related to a
problem with Internet Explorer 8. It is no longer being supported and it is
causing problems for people.

Check out this article on the problem.
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9231316/Google_to_drop_support_for_IE
8_on_Nov._15

The solution is to use Firefox or another browser if you are having problems
getting to the correct website page which is current.

Sorry for all of the difficulties, but it is the browser causing the problem
not our website.

We hope you enjoy this latest edition.
Thanks, Noel

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: covered Hoppers

Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
 

Dennis,

Normally I would not disagree with you, but, roller bearings were a known quantity starting in the late 1930's, as were the problems with solid bearings. After World War II, Timken, Hyatt and SKF all started the push to equip freight cars with roller bearings. Sure, cost was an issue, but the primary resistance was, as I also mentioned, due to the feeling that most railroads were unwilling to spend money on roller bearings when most of the cost advantages would be recovered by other roads. Some roads installed roller bearings on captive service cars (UP installing them on stock cars in the late 1950's comes to mind). Gradually, more and more cars started showing up sporting roller bearings in the 1960's and 1970's, and the ICC ruling pretty


 
Bill Daniels
San Francisco, CA



________________________________
From: soolinehistory <destorzek@mchsi.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 3:06 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: covered Hoppers


 


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Bill Daniels <billinsf@...> wrote:

Not only those savings, Rich, but the savings from a much reduced risk of hotboxes and derailments that were caused by hotboxes.


 
Bill Daniels
San Francisco, CA
That's Ninties-think. Back in the fifties, roller bearings were still pretty much an unknown quantity.

Savings from no need to re-pack, yes, but not from no need to oil, because the oiling equipment still needed to be on the hump approaches, and the carmen still need to carry oil down the train during inspection because of the cars not equipped with roller bearings, which in 1959 was still most of them.
Until the introduction of the Timken AP sealed bearing in 1954, roller bearings also needed to have their oil checked, but the proper oil was different from the common "journal oil", so there was always a question if these expensive bearings would be serviced properly on foreign roads.

Dennis


Re: covered Hoppers

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Bill Daniels <billinsf@...> wrote:

Not only those savings, Rich, but the savings from a much reduced risk of hotboxes and derailments that were caused by hotboxes.


 
Bill Daniels
San Francisco, CA
That's Ninties-think. Back in the fifties, roller bearings were still pretty much an unknown quantity.

Savings from no need to re-pack, yes, but not from no need to oil, because the oiling equipment still needed to be on the hump approaches, and the carmen still need to carry oil down the train during inspection because of the cars not equipped with roller bearings, which in 1959 was still most of them.
Until the introduction of the Timken AP sealed bearing in 1954, roller bearings also needed to have their oil checked, but the proper oil was different from the common "journal oil", so there was always a question if these expensive bearings would be serviced properly on foreign roads.

Dennis


Re: covered Hoppers

Tim O'Connor
 

As long as the cars stayed online, then you're probably correct. The hot issue in the 1950's was
getting your cars back, once someone found out they had roller bearings... they'd go offline and
never come back (or so it was perceived). That means someone else got the return on your
investment.

----- Original Message -----
From: cinderandeight@aol.com

It would seem that the added initial cost of roller bearing trucks
would be offset by the reduced labor costs of repacking and oiling plain
bearing trucks at some point.
Rich Burg


Re: NYCodeler 2nd Qtr. 2013 Downloading Issues

Douglas Harding
 

Noel I had no trouble, and is a great issue. Really like the stock pen info.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Noel Widdifield" <NYCBigFour@comcast.net>
Sent: ‎3/‎18/‎2013 1:52 PM
To: "STMFC@yahoogroups.com" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] NYCodeler 2nd Qtr. 2013 Downloading Issues

The problem we were encountering with the downloading of the latest edition of the NYCentral Modeler has been corrected. It now works with all browsers including IE 8 and on PC's and Mac's.

We are still having some problems with some other pages on the website, but are working to resolve that issue.

Depending on your Internet speed, it may take a while to download the document, as this edition is very large compared to previous editions.

Thank you for all of your patience and for all of your suggestions. It was primarily a compatibility issue between IE and Google Blogger.

We hope you enjoy this latest edition.
Thanks, Noel




[The entire original message is not included.]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: covered Hoppers (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Bill;

I am sure you are right.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Daniels
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 3:25 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: covered Hoppers (UNCLASSIFIED)



Elden,

I believe that the term "rebuilt" was actually in response to tax rules of the day. What constituted a rebuilt car in the teens may not constitute one in the sixties. Hence, the amount of work that would qualify a car as "rebuilt" would be different over the span of 50 or so years.


Bill Daniels
San Francisco, CA

________________________________
From: "Gatwood, Elden SAW" <elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil <mailto:elden.j.gatwood%40usace.army.mil> >
To: "STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 12:22 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: covered Hoppers (UNCLASSIFIED)



Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Rich;

Funny that you mention that, because those components were the only "new" components on the H21E, and later H21G rebuilds, as far as I could tell crawling all over them. Well, not including the sides. You remember that discussion we had about what made a E/G rebuild different from the H21A as rebuilt? New underframe? It's not a stretch to think that H21A built in the teens were getting rebuilt with a new u/f for use in the sixties until all the new classes cam onboard. I'd love to find the correspondence....

Not having crawled under the G36 A, C and D, I can't say what they had under them, but I suspect all that was "rebuilt" on them was that they used brake components. Quite a stretch.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of cinderandeight@aol.com <mailto:cinderandeight%40aol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 3:13 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: covered Hoppers

Greg,
I agree. The PRR repair instruction sheets are full of examples of what
to keep from scrapped cars, and where to reuse the items. In the case of
H34D, the PS covered hopper bodies were assembled from kits in the PRR shops,
and I think most of the appliances came from scrapped cars. The cars were
stenciled as "rebuilt" cars, and I examined their underframes "back in the
day" and found they didn't resemble the PS built H34-H34C cars at all,
leading me to suspect that their channels might have also come from scrapped
hopper cars.
The PRR was actually sort of slow to adopt roller bearing trucks, they
stayed with plain bearings well into the 1960's. But they did experiments
with roller bearing as early as the 1930's with a train of H21A Hopper cars so
equipped. Besides the H33 use of roller bearings I think some of the H30A
covered hopper, also built in the early 1950's, had them.
It would seem that the added initial cost of roller bearing trucks
would be offset by the reduced labor costs of repacking and oiling plain
bearing trucks at some point.
Rich Burg

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: covered Hoppers (UNCLASSIFIED)

Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
 

Elden,

I believe that the term "rebuilt" was actually in response to tax rules of the day. What constituted a rebuilt car in the teens may not constitute one in the sixties. Hence, the amount of work that would qualify a car as "rebuilt" would be different over the span of 50 or so years.


 
Bill Daniels
San Francisco, CA



________________________________
From: "Gatwood, Elden SAW" <elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil>
To: "STMFC@yahoogroups.com" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 12:22 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: covered Hoppers (UNCLASSIFIED)


 
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Rich;

Funny that you mention that, because those components were the only "new" components on the H21E, and later H21G rebuilds, as far as I could tell crawling all over them. Well, not including the sides. You remember that discussion we had about what made a E/G rebuild different from the H21A as rebuilt? New underframe? It's not a stretch to think that H21A built in the teens were getting rebuilt with a new u/f for use in the sixties until all the new classes cam onboard. I'd love to find the correspondence....

Not having crawled under the G36 A, C and D, I can't say what they had under them, but I suspect all that was "rebuilt" on them was that they used brake components. Quite a stretch.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cinderandeight@aol.com
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 3:13 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: covered Hoppers

Greg,
I agree. The PRR repair instruction sheets are full of examples of what
to keep from scrapped cars, and where to reuse the items. In the case of
H34D, the PS covered hopper bodies were assembled from kits in the PRR shops,
and I think most of the appliances came from scrapped cars. The cars were
stenciled as "rebuilt" cars, and I examined their underframes "back in the
day" and found they didn't resemble the PS built H34-H34C cars at all,
leading me to suspect that their channels might have also come from scrapped
hopper cars.
The PRR was actually sort of slow to adopt roller bearing trucks, they
stayed with plain bearings well into the 1960's. But they did experiments
with roller bearing as early as the 1930's with a train of H21A Hopper cars so
equipped. Besides the H33 use of roller bearings I think some of the H30A
covered hopper, also built in the early 1950's, had them.
It would seem that the added initial cost of roller bearing trucks
would be offset by the reduced labor costs of repacking and oiling plain
bearing trucks at some point.
Rich Burg

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