Date   

Re: Interesting product from True Line Trains...

Tim O'Connor
 

I agree with you Dennis, although my experience with NWSL .074 semi-fine scale wheels (which also have smaller
flanges than Code 110) on a large club layout was very good, with no problems or derailments at all. But all of that
track was hand laid to strict NMRA standard with the flangeways filled exactly as prescribed by the NMRA gauge.
I imagine that more typical layouts will have problems with these TLT wheelsets.

Tim O'Connor



Since on the prototype, NO drop is allowable, the wheel tread must be supported by the rail at all times. For model work, the "get-out-of-jail-free card" has been filling the frog flangeways, as in street railway practice, but that precludes using any standard Code 110 wheels on the track, as those flanges will rise up as they run through the frogs. The narrow tread wheels that retain the Code 110 size flanges are actually better for our purpose, as they allow the use offlange bearing specialwork.
Dennis


Re: Interesting product from True Line Trains...

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "midrly" <lucas@...> wrote:

In the testing stages are HO Code 88 wheelsets using the NMRA Fine flange depth. Not sure how this will work out on the average layout.
Scroll down the bottom of this page--

http://www.truelinetrains.ca/paint-accessories/trucks-and-wheelsets
Steve,

This paragraph right here is an admission that the standard does not work:

"In most cases, the only noticeable difference is that a wheel might drop slightly when going through a long turnout frog (#8 and higher). On poorly tuned trackwork, this could cause a derailment. This is most noticeable on equalized trucks (typically sprung, but can also be of a type using a separate bolster). Most model truck sideframes are rigid, and the drop is lessened as a result. As long as your trackwork and wheel spacing is in gauge, you should be OK."

Since on the prototype, NO drop is allowable, the wheel tread must be supported by the rail at all times. For model work, the "get-out-of-jail-free card" has been filling the frog flangeways, as in street railway practice, but that precludes using any standard Code 110 wheels on the track, as those flanges will rise up as they run through the frogs. The narrow tread wheels that retain the Code 110 size flanges are actually better for our purpose, as they allow the use offlange bearing specialwork.


Dennis


Re: Another nice video

Charles Morrill
 

I thought the collision was done on an O scale layout. But the film was very interesting and not just because of the freight car shots.
Charlie

-----Original Message-----
From: midrly
Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 11:10 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Another nice video

To this working railroader, there's a lot of scary work habits in this film.

If you look carefully at the "rear end collision" at about 32 minutes in, the equipment used seems to be American Flyer models on a layout.

But this is a nice film that shows a lot of STMFC's!

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "spsalso" <Edwardsutorik@...> wrote:

This GN safety film

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqpayZ2JqlU



shot in the forties has a goodly amount of freight cars in it. Imagine that! There's demonstrations on the right and wrong way to operate various handbrakes. And a Southern boxcar with those funny ends. And lotsa truss rods.


Ed

Edward Sutorik



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


FW: [Espee] McKeen car website

 

I never knew McKeen made boxcars. And highway passenger vehicles (though
that's OT).

About 1/3 the way down the page:
http://mckeencar.com/gallery-2/u/union-pacific-railroad/


Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni



From: David Coscia <espee.pe.sfv@gmail.com>
Reply-To: Espee List <Espee@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, April 2, 2013 7:47 AM
To: Espee List <Espee@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Espee] McKeen car website








Hello all

The owner of this website has requested photos and information.

Please contact the owner via his website if you are able to provide
anything.
http://mckeencar.com/

Regards
David Coscia

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Interesting product from True Line Trains...

Fritz Milhaupt
 

Hopefully they will do a better job of setting the gauge on the code 88 wheelsets than they did on their eight-hatch reefers: I've averaged about 50% of the wheelsets being badly out of gauge on over a dozen of these cars.

Otherwise, I quite like them.

-Fritz Milhaupt
Operations Road Show
http:/www.railsonwheels.com/ors


Re: Another nice video

brianleppert@att.net
 

Interurban Videos released this in VHS in 1988 under the name "Safe Switching".

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "spsalso" <Edwardsutorik@...> wrote:

This GN safety film

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqpayZ2JqlU


Interesting product from True Line Trains...

midrly
 

In the testing stages are HO Code 88 wheelsets using the NMRA Fine flange depth. Not sure how this will work out on the average layout.
Scroll down the bottom of this page--

http://www.truelinetrains.ca/paint-accessories/trucks-and-wheelsets

"Turned, Weathered True Fine Scale Code 88 Wheelsets - Coming Soon!

All stainless steel turned wheels with stainless steel axles.
Not brass plated with nickel silver that will wear over time.
Pre-weathered front, back, and axles.

These pre-weathered wheels are REAL Fine Scale Code 88. Most Code 88 wheelsets simply use a narrower tread, but still use a very oversized RP25 flange. This is only typically noticeable from the end of the car.

Our wheelsets use the NMRA Fine:HO RP instead, giving a better appearance but without requiring the modifications to turnouts and crossings as switching to Proto:87 standards. The flange is closer to a true scale representation of the prototype, but will operate on most layouts.

Will they work on your layout?
We've been testing them extensively on various commercial turnouts and haven't had any issues. Newer style turnouts (like Micro Engineering) are actually set up with shallower frogs and work better with true Code 88 wheelsets. RP25 flanges ride higher on these types of turnouts.

In most cases, the only noticeable difference is that a wheel might drop slightly when going through a long turnout frog (#8 and higher). On poorly tuned trackwork, this could cause a derailment. This is most noticeable on equalized trucks (typically sprung, but can also be of a type using a separate bolster). Most model truck sideframes are rigid, and the drop is lessened as a result. As long as your trackwork and wheel spacing is in gauge, you should be OK."

I'm not posting this as a plug for True Line, rather for comments on their suitability for we STMFC modellers.

Steve Lucas.


Re: Another nice video

midrly
 

To this working railroader, there's a lot of scary work habits in this film.

If you look carefully at the "rear end collision" at about 32 minutes in, the equipment used seems to be American Flyer models on a layout.

But this is a nice film that shows a lot of STMFC's!

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "spsalso" <Edwardsutorik@...> wrote:

This GN safety film

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqpayZ2JqlU



shot in the forties has a goodly amount of freight cars in it. Imagine that! There's demonstrations on the right and wrong way to operate various handbrakes. And a Southern boxcar with those funny ends. And lotsa truss rods.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


KC Brake Interchange Ban

Nelson Moyer <ku0a@...>
 

As a follow-up to the thread about KC brake interchange ban dates, I checked Andy Sperandeo's Railroad Timeline, 1950-89, and here's what I found. KC brakes were banned from interchange July 1, 1953 ( I guessed September). Empties being returned to home roads were exempted until December 31,1953. Tank cars were excepted until October 1, 1953, and after that date, only empties could be interchanged until December 31, 1953. No cars with KC brakes were accepted in interchange after December 31, 1953.

CB&Q was one road that used KC brakes right up to the ban on cars that weren't rebuilt, e.g. USRA double-sheathed boxcars (class XM-24) and several classes of single-sheathed boxcars. Remaining cars with KC brakes were assigned to company service after the ban.

The Q retained horizontal brake wheels on several classes of cars converted to AB brakes, making for in interesting mix of cars, some with original KC brakes, some with stem-winders and AB brakes, and some with AB brakes with vertical brake wheels or Handcock handbrakes. The Q used Ajax, Miner, and Uiniversal power handbrakes, sometimes several types within a single class, adding interesting variety to the freight car fleet.

Nelson Moyer


Another nice video

spsalso
 

This GN safety film

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqpayZ2JqlU



shot in the forties has a goodly amount of freight cars in it. Imagine that! There's demonstrations on the right and wrong way to operate various handbrakes. And a Southern boxcar with those funny ends. And lotsa truss rods.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: Coiled Steel (UNCLASSIFIED)

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Apr 1, 2013, at 12:35 PM, "Gatwood, Elden SAW" <elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil> wrote:

When did ATSF gons get roofs? That must've been an interesting development process.

Ca. 1956. Attached is a scan of an early example. The roofs were made from salvaged late '20s box car radial roofs.

Richard Hendrickson


Ladder Requirements, was Modernized X26

Guy Wilber
 

Tim,

All safety appliance requirements were issued by the ICC and were administered (via the interchange rules) by the MCBA, ARA and AAR.

From The United States Safety-Appliance Standards (circa 1950). "Manner of Application: Metal ladders without stiles near corners of cars shall have foot guards or upward projections not less than two (2) inches in height near inside end of bottom treads."

The diagrams typically show a cut away ladder built up with stiles and treads and a "ladder" formed from what we refer to as hand grabs or hand holds. The latter of the two in the lower portion of the diagram shows all hand grabs with the two inch drop, but the text would indicate that only the bottom grab was required to have the drop.

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada

-----Original Message-----
From: timboconnor <timboconnor@comcast.net>
To: STMFC <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Apr 1, 2013 1:48 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Modernized X26





Guy

That interests me, since a ladder would obviously stop your foot from slipping sideways
when the grab is wet or icy... Was there a requirement that grabirons had this feature built
into them -- for example, what we call "drop grabs" would have this safety property.

Tim O'Connor

----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Wilber" <guycwilber@aol.com>

John Wrote:

"I cannot find one photo of an X26 with all these features, but specifically, the replacement of the side end grab irons with ladders. I think the ladders were a AAR requirement from the late 1920's on but did not know if it applied to new cars only, rebuilt cars, or what."

John,

In the late 1920's the AAR was still the ARA, and there was never a requirement from either association to replace grab irons with ladders on new or rebuilt freight cars regardless of location (right side or end).

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada


Re: RPM-East photos

laserhriz
 

The cars are Rambler Country Clubs.
Because Stan does not have a computer, and is not familiar with internet workings, he needed someone to purchase these for him.
As his friend I ordered some for Stan (and myself) from an ebay seller in China.
If you are not comfortable dealing with people in China, let me assure you I had no problems with any of my several purchases.
They also sell HO scale Nash Metropolitans.
 
Dennis Sautters
Canton, Ohio


________________________________
From: gary laakso <vasa0vasa@earthlink.net>
To: Steam Era Freight cars <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RPM-East photos

 
Slide 46 of 96 shows a former FGEX and before that PRR R7 reefer in B&O colors and I assume in company service.

gary laakso
south of Mike Brock

From: Bill Welch
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2013 5:36 PM
To: Steam Era Freight cars
Subject: [STMFC] RPM-East photos

I don't think anyone has noted this as yet. This link will take you
to a slide show of photos by Eric Hansmann from the recent 2013 RPM-
East event:

http://www.pbase.com/ehansmann/rpmeast_2013&view=slideshow

If anyone has an easy way to contact Stan Rydarowicz, will you ask
him where he obtained the dandy little Henry J's (or Kaiser Fraziers,
I get them confused)?

Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727-470-9930
mailto:fgexbill%40tampabay.rr.com






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Modernized X26

Tim O'Connor
 

Guy

That interests me, since a ladder would obviously stop your foot from slipping sideways
when the grab is wet or icy... Was there a requirement that grabirons had this feature built
into them -- for example, what we call "drop grabs" would have this safety property.

Tim O'Connor

----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Wilber" <guycwilber@aol.com>

John Wrote:

"I cannot find one photo of an X26 with all these features, but specifically, the replacement of the side end grab irons with ladders. I think the ladders were a AAR requirement from the late 1920's on but did not know if it applied to new cars only, rebuilt cars, or what."

John,

In the late 1920's the AAR was still the ARA, and there was never a requirement from either association to replace grab irons with ladders on new or rebuilt freight cars regardless of location (right side or end).

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada


Re: Modernized X26

Guy Wilber
 

John Wrote:

"I cannot find one photo of an X26 with all these features, but specifically, the replacement of the side end grab irons with ladders. I think the ladders were a AAR requirement from the late 1920's on but did not know if it applied to new cars only, rebuilt cars, or what."

John,

In the late 1920's the AAR was still the ARA, and there was never a requirement from either association to replace grab irons with ladders on new or rebuilt freight cars regardless of location (right side or end).

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada


Re: Coiled steel in Rdg gon Mar1937 (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Tim;

I don't know Elden, but I appreciate the link because it has this nice shot of a gondola with a new wood floor.
http://www.thepwvhiline.com/WreckDerailmentsandDamage/Wreck_Smithfield_Ohio_3.html

Yeah, I saw that, too. Those cars were 1956/57 built, so they are relatively new. They look just like the cars being delivered to the PRR at that time: treated but unpainted wood floor, asphaltum seal between floor and side, and painted interior sides. The later repaints for dedicated steel hauling had silver interiors.

Modern coils are wrapped very tight -- these are mostly empty space. Canstock is very thin and I don't think
would ever be shipped in an open car.

Yeah, you're right.

The HiLine site has great P&WV freight car shots, although a couple box cars got PhotoShopped.

Elden Gatwood



----- Original Message -----
From: "Elden SAW Gatwood" <elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil <mailto:elden.j.gatwood%40usace.army.mil> >

In doing some more digging into the story on coiled steel shipment in freight cars, I came across the following photo:

http://www.thepwvhiline.com/WreckDerailmentsandDamage/Metal_Coils_At_Avella_002_Web.html

My initial reaction was, WAY overloaded (50-ton gon?); my second thought, coiled sheet in 1937?, but look at the cars in the background; again then, I don't know what kind of sheet this was. Canstock is thinner than car fenders, right? The coils are rather small diameter, but wide. I was also very surprised to see them eye-up, banded together in groups, in an open car, since the sheet looks fairly "finished".

Any ideas, aside from the obvious, what is going on here? Have you ever seen anything like this before? Not the smartest idea I have seen implemented....

Elden Gatwood

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: Coiled steel in Rdg gon Mar1937 (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Thanks, Guy. I also suspect the dates are a bit later, but some of the other photos show cars from the thirties, so I expect not by years.

I expect you're right about trying to follow loading rules for a commodity that had none, as this is a really weird application.

I have other photos of "accordioned" coils, so seeing them out of some kind of containment device/cradle, is proof of the need.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Guy Wilber
Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 3:24 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Coiled steel in Rdg gon Mar1937 (UNCLASSIFIED)





Eldon,

The repack stencil reads; 8-37 which would date the photo somewhat past the March, 1937 date within the captions.

There were no specific AAR Loading Rules covering coiled steel in open top cars in 1937. The shipper was still required to secure the load using the best available figure and rules and it looks as though (in this case) they tried to mimic steel tanks loaded on ends (figures 136-138) from 1937.

Coiled steel shipped in gons was not addressed by the Loading Rules Committee until 1941 when new Figure 79-A was developed. More newly developed figures were added in subsequent years specifying rules for various coil sizes within Figures 79-B thru 79-E (inclusive). None of the figures allowed for coils to be loaded on their end.

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: Coiled Steel (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Richard;

Your photo got stripped, but I am glad there are other examples of this.

Someone must've been asking the PRR, in the late thirties, for weather protection for coils, which they did by tarping, then later (figuring out this still created condensation damage), putting them in box cars. The only coils I've seen with chalk marks on them are finished coils, not the unmarked semi-finished ones I am used to being laid eye-down at either end. This method of securing them by banding them together also seems....experimental?

When did ATSF gons get roofs? That must've been an interesting development process.

Thanks for the feedback,

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Hendrickson
Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 2:10 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Coiled Steel



Eldon, You may not have seen this photo - it's in my book on Open Top Cars for the Santa Fe RH&MS. It's another example of a car equipped for coiled steel loading without any semblance of weather protection. Several of these Ft-7s were so modified, but didn't last long in that form before they were replaced by gondolas with removable roofs.

Richard Hendrickson







Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: Coiled steel in Rdg gon Mar1937 (UNCLASSIFIED)

Tim O'Connor
 

I don't know Elden, but I appreciate the link because it has this nice shot of a gondola with a new wood floor.
http://www.thepwvhiline.com/WreckDerailmentsandDamage/Wreck_Smithfield_Ohio_3.html

Modern coils are wrapped very tight -- these are mostly empty space. Canstock is very thin and I don't think
would ever be shipped in an open car.

Tim O'Connor

----- Original Message -----
From: "Elden SAW Gatwood" <elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil>

In doing some more digging into the story on coiled steel shipment in freight cars, I came across the following photo:

http://www.thepwvhiline.com/WreckDerailmentsandDamage/Metal_Coils_At_Avella_002_Web.html

My initial reaction was, WAY overloaded (50-ton gon?); my second thought, coiled sheet in 1937?, but look at the cars in the background; again then, I don't know what kind of sheet this was. Canstock is thinner than car fenders, right? The coils are rather small diameter, but wide. I was also very surprised to see them eye-up, banded together in groups, in an open car, since the sheet looks fairly "finished".

Any ideas, aside from the obvious, what is going on here? Have you ever seen anything like this before? Not the smartest idea I have seen implemented....

Elden Gatwood


Re: Coiled steel in Rdg gon Mar1937 (UNCLASSIFIED)

Guy Wilber
 

Eldon,

The repack stencil reads; 8-37 which would date the photo somewhat past the March, 1937 date within the captions.

There were no specific AAR Loading Rules covering coiled steel in open top cars in 1937. The shipper was still required to secure the load using the best available figure and rules and it looks as though (in this case) they tried to mimic steel tanks loaded on ends (figures 136-138) from 1937.

Coiled steel shipped in gons was not addressed by the Loading Rules Committee until 1941 when new Figure 79-A was developed. More newly developed figures were added in subsequent years specifying rules for various coil sizes within Figures 79-B thru 79-E (inclusive). None of the figures allowed for coils to be loaded on their end.

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada

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