A photo would help tremendously Tony - thanks.

Tim's comment about car height does present another challenge I hadn't anticipated, so maybe I need to change starting points. That and find suitable doors. For clarity, are you saying the 2 doors total an extra 1', or each door adds an extra 1' (total 2')?

Rob Kirkham

Tyrone,

1944 ;^) and at my count, about 1:1 of the 1922 and 1927 cars. Note too that the IM car represents a rebuilt 1927 car with a full load as it measures 12' 9" to the eaves, 2" shorter that the drawing (so make sure to model the springs as compressed <G>). A couple of years ago we did a FGE/BRE/WFE wood reefer project on the PRRPro - lots of data in the archives there too.

I have said this many times here, but once more won't hurt... you mention the territory affecting what is being shipped. You should also consider whether the area being modeled is a shipper or receiver. The common examples I use would be any of the western members of PFE and SFRD being shippers, whereas the PRR, while certainly originating loads on reefers, was a huge receiver of refrigerator cars from around the country.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
________________________________________
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [STMFC@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of aaejj2j [tyrone.johnsen@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 5:38 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] FGE WFE BRE Wood Car Fleet

I created a file folder named "FGE WFE BRE" to which I inserted three files or at least tried to do it.
First is a (40ft) ice bunker car distribution over time. This was created using data from a number of available ORERs and using some interpretation as I concentrated on generally 40 ft cars which is the vast majority. I looked at about six different years and tried to illustrate the comparative size of the FGE fleet versus the WFE and BRE fleets. Also I tried to illustrate the relative size within those fleets of the number of wood bodied or sheeted cars versus steel bodied cars. Note the time scale is not scaled and one should look only at each set of bars (for the three companies) as applicable to some time during the indicated year. Hopefully one will see the relative size of each company and the wood versus steel cars of each of the three companies and how they change with time. I used a time period from the early 1920s (after the WFE was established) to the early 1950s when mechanical reefers started to appear in some significance. From this one should see the rational !
Bill Welch and Bruce Smith have stated regarding the relative ratio of company cars at their modeling period. I believe one should look to the ORER for their time period to then select the more common car series to include in their fleet. Bruce Smith who models 1941 if I remember correctly would probably have a lot of the low cars of the 1921/2 design (like the Accurail wood car) and the taller 1927/8 cars (like the Sunshine Models) but none of the late 1940 rebuilds (which the IM car is suppose to represented). I who model 1950 would include the late 1940s rebuilds but have a smaller number of the other cars as they are rebuilt or retired. Bill Welch who I believe models 1957 would have an even smaller percentage of the low cars and of the wood cars and a higher percentage of steel bodied cars and even some mechanical reefers. This is where the ORERs are required. Also one must consider the territory modeled as the goods shipped might impact the reefer types - think fruits!
and vegetables versus animal products.
The other two files are overviews of the WFE and the BRE express and give some info to sources for additional detailed information.
Tyrone Johnsen
Rockford, IL



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Mike Brock wrote:

The current thread about Railway Prototype Cyclopedia, it not being closely associated with frt cars and it being considered as criticism of business proctices is now terminated.

So this means that no CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is tolerated either? Sheesh.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

Guys,
The current thread about Railway Prototype Cyclopedia, it not being closely associated with frt cars and it being considered as criticism of business proctices is now terminated.

Thanks,

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner

I created a file folder named "FGE WFE BRE" to which I inserted three files or at least tried to do it.
First is a (40ft) ice bunker car distribution over time. This was created using data from a number of available ORERs and using some interpretation as I concentrated on generally 40 ft cars which is the vast majority. I looked at about six different years and tried to illustrate the comparative size of the FGE fleet versus the WFE and BRE fleets. Also I tried to illustrate the relative size within those fleets of the number of wood bodied or sheeted cars versus steel bodied cars. Note the time scale is not scaled and one should look only at each set of bars (for the three companies) as applicable to some time during the indicated year. Hopefully one will see the relative size of each company and the wood versus steel cars of each of the three companies and how they change with time. I used a time period from the early 1920s (after the WFE was established) to the early 1950s when mechanical reefers started to appear in some significance. From this one should see the rational Bill Welch and Bruce Smith have stated regarding the relative ratio of company cars at their modeling period. I believe one should look to the ORER for their time period to then select the more common car series to include in their fleet. Bruce Smith who models 1941 if I remember correctly would probably have a lot of the low cars of the 1921/2 design (like the Accurail wood car) and the taller 1927/8 cars (like the Sunshine Models) but none of the late 1940 rebuilds (which the IM car is suppose to represented). I who model 1950 would include the late 1940s rebuilds but have a smaller number of the other cars as they are rebuilt or retired. Bill Welch who I believe models 1957 would have an even smaller percentage of the low cars and of the wood cars and a higher percentage of steel bodied cars and even some mechanical reefers. This is where the ORERs are required. Also one must consider the territory modeled as the goods shipped might impact the reefer types - think fruits and vegetables versus animal products.
The other two files are overviews of the WFE and the BRE express and give some info to sources for additional detailed information.
Tyrone Johnsen
Rockford, IL

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.

File : /FGE WFE BRE/Web Overview WFE 6March2012.pdf
Uploaded by : aaejj2j <tyrone.johnsen@hotmail.com>
Description : WFE Overview

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/FGE%20WFE%20BRE/Web%20Overview%20WFE%206March2012.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.html
Regards,

aaejj2j <tyrone.johnsen@hotmail.com>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.

File : /FGE WFE BRE/Burlington Refrigerator Express Co Overview.pdf
Uploaded by : aaejj2j <tyrone.johnsen@hotmail.com>
Description : BRE Overview

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/FGE%20WFE%20BRE/Burlington%20Refrigerator%20Express%20Co%20Overview.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.html
Regards,

aaejj2j <tyrone.johnsen@hotmail.com>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.

File : /FGE WFE BRE/Ice Reefer Fleet Distribution Slide.pdf
Uploaded by : aaejj2j <tyrone.johnsen@hotmail.com>
Description : FGE WFE BRE Wood Reefer # vs time

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/FGE%20WFE%20BRE/Ice%20Reefer%20Fleet%20Distribution%20Slide.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.html
Regards,

aaejj2j <tyrone.johnsen@hotmail.com>

I have a duplicate of Volume 13 - will sell it for the same price.
Contact me off list if interested.
Marty McGuirk

At 12:43 PM 5/13/2013, Anthony Thompson wrote:
<snip>

http://www.railsandtrails.com/W&LE/car/index.html

Call me clueless, but I can't figure out how to open the .djvu file which is the diagram.

Tony... Few on this list suspect you are clueless...

But... in order to read this less than universal .djvu file format... a relic of the bandwidth and disk-storage constrained 1990s; according to <http://djvu.org/resources>http://djvu.org/resources you would either need a browser viewer or a reader like DjView: <http://sourceforge.net/projects/windjview>http://sourceforge.net/projects/windjview


I was able to open the file with the WinDjView reader and then convert to PDF.

Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA

You guys are kidding, right? Come to St. Louis RPM and you get an RPC #1 free just for walking through the door. We've given away 5-600 of them in the last two years. I still have a case in my basement for this year's STL RPM--I brought 15 of them to Marion RPM two weeks ago for the giveaway. Ed and Pat are very kind and generous to make this offer available. RPC is the best series of books--we're lucky that Pat and Ed make these documents available and for cheap (and for free, in some cases).

I'm a Big Fan,
John

John Golden
O'Fallon, IL

Small-run reprints likely won't make sense for either the publisher or the purchaser, but perhaps RPC might consider electronic distribution on reprints, or even first-purchase. In this day-and-age almost all print projects spend time as electronic files, and most printing companies offer formating for electronic tablets for not a lot of money if done at the time of initial production.

The retail publisher-folks I've talked to about this have said that so far while there is some crossover of people buying both print and tablet and a little bit of tablet purchases replacing print, the big percentage of tablet buyers are new customers.

Print on demand might be an option after the initial run is sold out as a service to future customers, but the publisher's profits aren't nearly what were on the initial printing.

In the beginning of on-line media there were a lot of publishers giving away content, especially newspapers. This time around they're going to be charging for content as every step of posting something on line has a cost. Many are looking at it in terms that the customer is buying content, whether it's on paper or pixels or memory sticks.

We at the Tri-State Chapter NRHS are working to offer reprints in tablet and print-on-demand as a way to get our useful books from the '70s and '80s out there without a $20k print bill and future storage costs. Tony Thompson will have more on the copyright subject, but we've found that while copyright law hasn't fully caught up with technology, the prevailing interpretation on electronic reprints is that if there was no change to the content, they are treated simply as a reprint in contracts executed before the internet era. So what the author / publisher agreed to on reprints initially is what a judge will look at if litigated.

As for offering related articles from a couple of editions as a package: Great idea. If profit is the motive, that would be a good profit center. Who wouldn't want all of the two-pocket offset hoppers or USRA rebuilds in one place or book? I wonder how difficult it would be to allow customers to customize their books -- pick the groups of articles they want in a single package to have it printed on demand or sent to a tablet. Cool. If Pat and Ed lay out all future articles to begin on a right-hand page and end on a left-hand page, it would work. I like it.

Neat stuff ....Mike Del Vecchio




---------------------------------------

Were the W&LE 29000-29199 door and a half auto cars built in April, 1916 a precedent of the the single sheathed USRA cars with the exception of the doors?  The diagram shows "Steel Ends Murphy's Corrugated" and the roof is Murphy XLR flexible.  Are there other differences? See link for diagram:
http://www.railsandtrails.com/W&LE/car/index.html
Robert Oom
Kalamazoo, MI

 
No; the cars were radically different. The 29000s were the precursors of the W&LE's 27000-series single sheathed cars.
 
From what I remember, the USRA single sheathed cars are "similar" to the CP's 1916 Bettendorf-built cars.
 
Regards,
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL

Robert Oom wrote:

Were the W&LE 29000-29199 door and a half auto cars built in April, 1916 a precedent of the the single sheathed USRA cars with the exception of the doors? The diagram shows "Steel Ends Murphy's Corrugated" and the roof is Murphy XLR flexible. Are there other differences? See link for diagram:

http://www.railsandtrails.com/W&LE/car/index.html

Call me clueless, but I can't figure out how to open the .djvu file which is the diagram.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

Presubscribed publishing happens, but I can't speak to the economics.
Milepost 206 is a small publisher specializing in limited press run books
and calendars featuring the Chicago, Burlington, and Quincy. They recently
published the definitive tome on The Burlington Waycars on a pre-order basis
plus some overhead for selected hobby shops. They followed that up with a
Waycar Drawing Book containing both prototype and model line drawings.
Anybody interested in how he does it may want to contact Randy.



http://www.milepost206.com/



Looking at his web site, and the next two projects underway (CB&Q MOW
equipment and CB&Q Motorcars), you will see that Randy depends upon
contributed materials from private collections, most of which would never
see daylight except for his efforts.



Nelson Moyer

I don't know the economics of "on demand" printing, but I wish more would
explore that option. The Santa Fe Society has begun selling "digital
reprints" of our of print magazines, but that is not always possible with
books since copyright and contractural considerations extend beyond just
running a copy machine.



________________________________________________________________

Steve Sandifer

12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477

713-376-0684

www.ssandifer.com



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Anthony Thompson
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 1:47 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Railway Prototype Cyclopedias





Charlie Vlk wrote:

The price for books, magazines, drawings, photographs, and railroad

artifacts have, in many cases, become ridiculous.

There is no question that authors are entitled to their copyright

protection and people are entitled to be compensated for their investment,
but the escalation in prices for many items is beyond reason.

That prices may reach points we don't wish to pay, and therefore are
"ridiculous" to US, does not make them unreasonable in any way. Stuff is
worth what someone will pay for it. You may have an old brass locomotive,
and may find it is now worth LESS than you paid for it, thirty years ago, or
it may be worth much MORE than you paid. Neither result is "ridiculous."
That said, I agree that the loss of access to information is unfortunate.
Perhaps the publishers of RP Cyc could consider electronic editions of the
issues they will not reprint. It would be a bit more revenue to them, and
information to everyone else. We are actively exploring the same approach
for Signature Press.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>
Publishers of books on railroad history

Charlie Vlk wrote:

The price for books, magazines, drawings, photographs, and railroad artifacts have, in many cases, become ridiculous.

There is no question that authors are entitled to their copyright protection and people are entitled to be compensated for their investment, but the escalation in prices for many items is beyond reason.

That prices may reach points we don't wish to pay, and therefore are "ridiculous" to US, does not make them unreasonable in any way. Stuff is worth what someone will pay for it. You may have an old brass locomotive, and may find it is now worth LESS than you paid for it, thirty years ago, or it may be worth much MORE than you paid. Neither result is "ridiculous."
That said, I agree that the loss of access to information is unfortunate. Perhaps the publishers of RP Cyc could consider electronic editions of the issues they will not reprint. It would be a bit more revenue to them, and information to everyone else. We are actively exploring the same approach for Signature Press.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

Were the W&LE 29000-29199 door and a half auto cars built in April, 1916 a precedent of the the single sheathed USRA cars with the exception of the doors? The diagram shows "Steel Ends Murphy's Corrugated" and the roof is Murphy XLR flexible. Are there other differences? See link for diagram:

http://www.railsandtrails.com/W&LE/car/index.html


Robert Oom
Kalamazoo, MI

Good for you Andy. I just sold almost a dozen for $30 each to a friend who
will put them on his reference shelf and not in a vault.


Jim

I have a standing order at my LHS for this.

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: Don Burn <burn@windrvr.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, May 13, 2013 10:17 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Railway Prototype Cyclopedia's






Charlie,

The publisher still has them order direct http://rpcycpub.com/ You
could suggest they modify their reprint policy at the same time.
Personally, I would love to see some of the series articles, updated and
published as standalone volumes.

Don Burn