Date   

nyc 706970 gondola - modelling question

Robert kirkham
 

So I've had a little off-line help with this project and can now correct my earlier comments about the drop end doors: these cars did have drop end doors.

Now I'm preparing some drawings for a model and wonder about a dimension. The inside length is 50' on this car. I don't have a dimension for the thickness of the drop doors. I could simply borrow a dimension from the P2K model, but wondering if there is a better way of estimating the dimension.

I'm going to have a look at the some Cyc drawings from the era and see what I can find, but thought I'd ask here too.

Rob Kirkham


Re: Airbrushing Resin Kits

Bill Welch
 

I prefer painting the under frame and body of house cars separately and I use the cardboard tube from rolls of toilet paper with a loop of masking tape on both sides to keep it secured, which is easy because the weights are on the u/f. With open top and tank cars I use the green florist wire that comes with the F&C kits wrapped around the truck screws and then hang the model to dry.

I use Badger's Modelflex paint so if I spray the hand holding the cardboard tube or the wire, which I usually do, I just wash it off.

Speaking of paint, I used Accuflex paint from the get-go and was interested to hear Greg's history lesson on what happened to it. I am very happy with Modelflex although I have also used Polyscale and intend to go to my LHS and buy the colors I like from that line this week.

A few years ago I used Gray and Yellow Scalecoat paints custom mixed for Des Planes Hobbies to match the Clinchfield to paint two F5's and two GP7's and carefully dispensed what I needed each time, thinning it as I went. I barely finished painting the four models and the required slight touch-ups before the main bottles became unusable. Very frustrating. Ended up using a Tamiya yellow to do some stand off details I forgot to paint.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., "radiodial868" <radiodial@...> wrote:

While the spring loaded "expander" handle works fine for car bodies with removable shells, what does one use to hold assembled Westerfield and Sunshine models for spray-painting? Any tips?
Thx,
RJ Dial
Pleasanton, CA


Re: L&NE and CNJ 50 ton hoppers -- appropriate models?

Brian Carlson
 

Ed: I don't know if you have Kadee's ear but I for one would love to see
them produce the closely spaced Z section end. I'd buy lots of the B&O cars,
and the P&S.



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga, NY




While the LNE had some cars with the same sides, they used a different
end arrangement than the Kadee model. It would require a new pair of
ends having closely-spaced Z-section end posts. With the same new pair
of ends, the Kadee model would be also accurate for several thousand
B&O N-41/N-44 cars with conventional AAR-type underframes in addition
to one series for P&S.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Airbrushing Resin Kits

Bruce Smith
 

RJ,

Lotsa of different approaches can be used. Some flat kits I paint before assembly. This is especially useful as it allows good color separattion if needed and also allows you to decal both sides at the same time. Other approaches are to put a set of truck without wheels on and use those to hold the model right side up. Alternatively, you can use wood skewers stuck in a block of florist foam. To do the under bodies I usually just hold the car in one hand.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
________________________________________
From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...] on behalf of radiodial868 [radiodial@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 6:27 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Airbrushing Resin Kits

While the spring loaded "expander" handle works fine for car bodies with removable shells, what does one use to hold assembled Westerfield and Sunshine models for spray-painting? Any tips?
Thx,
RJ Dial
Pleasanton, CA



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: automotive lacquer (was ...Testors...)

Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton <smokeandsteam@...>
 

Another problem, not sure we could spray plastic. Floquil could be
misted on styrene without any problems, I'm not sure we could do this
with automotive lacquer!

You can indeed, and in much the same way as you used to be able to spray the old "hot" Floquil. Mist it on for the first couple of coats until you have an even coat over everything; subsequent coats can be rather wetter but still not quite wet if you get my drift.

Remember that there are two types of lacquers - the traditional cellulose lacquers and more modern acrylic lacquers (which in themselves are rather old hat these days, as much car finishing is done with polyurethane type paints which hold up rather better to weather and road grime). The older cellulose lacquers are fun to play with, and can produce a range of finishes but the solvent is toxic and probably best avoided in most home settings. It is still used in finishing musical instruments, and furniture - usually as a clear or slightly tinted coat, but can be sourced in solid colours though off the shelf range tends to be limited

Aidrian


Re: Airbrushing Resin Kits

Nelson Moyer <ku0a@...>
 

Some of us have made stands that attach with screws to the kingspins of the
car to be painted. This requires painting as a two step process. I paint the
underframe first, let it dry, attach the car to the stand, then paint the
rest of the car. I model the CB&Q, and most of my resin kits are house cars,
which are painted mineral read on all surfaces including trucks (which I
paint separately on a multi-truck jig). The stand stabilizes and elevates
the car, and when placed on a lazy Susan, can be rotated to access the
sides, ends, and roof of the car. I built my stand out of quarter inch
square styrene strips.



Nelson Moyer

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
radiodial868
Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 6:27 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Airbrushing Resin Kits





While the spring loaded "expander" handle works fine for car bodies with
removable shells, what does one use to hold assembled Westerfield and
Sunshine models for spray-painting? Any tips?
Thx,
RJ Dial
Pleasanton, CA


Re: Airbrushing Resin Kits

Brian Carlson
 

I generally paint in stages underframe first, then put the model on "shop
Trucks" and paint the sitting on them in the booth. I don't have on but a
lazy-susan is useful too.



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga, NY



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
radiodial868
Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 7:27 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Airbrushing Resin Kits





While the spring loaded "expander" handle works fine for car bodies with
removable shells, what does one use to hold assembled Westerfield and
Sunshine models for spray-painting? Any tips?
Thx,
RJ Dial
Pleasanton, CA


Airbrushing Resin Kits

radiodial868
 

While the spring loaded "expander" handle works fine for car bodies with removable shells, what does one use to hold assembled Westerfield and Sunshine models for spray-painting? Any tips?
Thx,
RJ Dial
Pleasanton, CA


Re: automotive lacquer (was ...Testors...)

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I pestered Bob Weaver probably 30 years ago, asking (begging) him to produce the two ERIE
Greens used on passenger equipment. I only had to wait about 27 years but they're finally
out in both Scalecoat versions, I and II. And yup, I bought them as soon as I could.



But even then he was complaining about how he could not get many of the basic elements he
used, actually, that the entire paint industry used, because they'd been deemed dangerous.
And I suppose they are if you spend your life painting cars in the driveway or possibly,
maybe, even in a factory, but I find it hard to believe that they would be dangerous for
use in painting railroad models (Matt may differ, but then, Matt paints more models than
most of us . . .).



Schuyler



From: Don

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "John Sykes"
<John.Sykes@...> wrote:

Chuck:

About 30 years ago now, I visited Bob Weaver up in Northumberland when I was working at
TMI (Three Mile Island NOT Train Miniatures, Inc.). Bob was loading "Scalecoat II" bottles
from 5 gallon pails of DuPont Dulux enamel. He had a big black book with the railroad
order numbers in it for the Dulux color matches. Part of the issue with Scalecoat colors
changing might be due to the fact that DuPont is out of the paint business, so you can't
match those original specifications as easily. By the way, many of the RR colors had
different names but the same Dulux color codes.

Based on this observation, I think that "Scalecoat I" may have been Duco lacquer, since
that is what many RRs used for their locomotive paints.

Bob Weaver told me as much as well but another problem we may
not be considering for color match is the fact that some of the individual chemicals used
to mix paint years ago can no longer be legally used, or so I am told. Same problem for
photographers.
The son of the late New Haven President F.C. "Buck" Dumaine is a great photographer in his
own right. "Young Buck", as I have always called him, used to do quite a bit of police
photography work as well. I have seen work from his 4x5 Speed Graphic negatives that were
exposed without flash in the middle of the night that one would think were taken with some
really bright light but were not. "Young Buck" used to process his own film, often at
higher temperatures, but told me several years ago that he could no longer obtain the
chemicals needed to do so. We may be "safer" these days but there is still a price to be
paid.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Early Refrigerator Car With Vents?

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

On 5/25/2013 3:22 PM, Bob Chaparro wrote:
Notice what appear to be two large vents on the end of the car. Is anyone familiar with this car design?
I'm going to take a SWAG and say they are vents in the down
position. See Westerfield site;

10801 SFRD RR.Q ORIGINAL

I don't believe these to be ATSF but another design.

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Early Refrigerator Car With Vents?

Bob Chaparro <thecitrusbelt@...>
 

This image link is from the USC Digital Library and shows a view of the Santa Fe Railroad yard in San Bernardino, CA, in 1888.

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15799coll65/id/18780/rec/7

If you blow up the photo using the slider above it you'll see a refrigerator car at the lower right corner. Notice what appear to be two large vents on the end of the car. Is anyone familiar with this car design?

Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: L&NE and CNJ 50 ton hoppers -- appropriate models?

Ed Hawkins
 

On May 25, 2013, at 1:39 PM, Brian LaManna wrote:

As a prototypical freelance modeler of the post WWII northern New
Jersey railroad scene, I realize it would be in my interest to have
some anthracite road hoppers. Looking at the '36 AAR standard and
related 50 ton hopper overview in RRPCYC #25, I'm curious if the Kadee
model is appropriate for either CRP/CNJ and/or LNE? My apologies if
this has been discussed before and I overlooked it.
Brian,
Kadee's model is correct for CRP/CNJ AAR 50-ton cars having rolled
angle end posts extending from the end sills to the top of the ends. It
was just a short time before Vol. 25 was published that an end view of
a CNJ car was located to confirm the end arrangement. Kadee is aware
they can produce this car accurately for both as-built CRP and the CNJ
version with their existing model.

While the LNE had some cars with the same sides, they used a different
end arrangement than the Kadee model. It would require a new pair of
ends having closely-spaced Z-section end posts. With the same new pair
of ends, the Kadee model would be also accurate for several thousand
B&O N-41/N-44 cars with conventional AAR-type underframes in addition
to one series for P&S.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


D&RGW 10"4" IH, 12 Panel Boxcar

Dennis
 

I am starting Sunshine #96.9 - a model of the D&RGW 12 panel boxcar with the 15' doors built by the Pressed Steel Car Co. in 1939. Number series 65100-199.

I am looking for more detail of the underbody (always a challenge - and this car has one of the unique designs) because the the included instructions show two pictures with different locations for the components, are not clear on which picture is for which car, and generally do not give a good sense of how the the brake equipment was installed on this car.

I found pictures of the exterior and interior of the car in the 1940 Car Cyc., but no other references in my search at the Pacific Railroad Museum in San Dimas (cheap plug for them).

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Have a great Memorial Weekend and God Bless all our veterans.

Thanks,

Dennis Korn


Re: nyc 706970 gondola

Robert kirkham
 

thanks Greg - that makes sense. I can't vouch for all 6" of additional length being distributed at those two ribs, but knowing there is extra length in the Erie car explains there will be additional space between ribs somewhere!

Rob

-----Original Message-----
From: pge253
Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 12:13 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: nyc 706970 gondola

Hi Rob,

A comparison of the January 1953 ORER listings for the Erie gondolas (series 14500 - 14949) and the NYC gondolas (series 706500 - 747999) shows that the Erie cars were 6" longer than the NYC ones (50'-6" IL vs 50'-0" IL) with a slightly larger capacity (1439 CUFT vs 1428 CUFT). This may account for the difference you are seeing in rib spacing.

Cheers,
Greg Kennelly
Burnaby, BC

--- In STMFC@..., Robert Kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

- snip ->
A couple of differences I think I see so far:

- snip -> - it may be an illusion, but I think the spacing of the side ribs is
slightly different. This isn't easy to describe, but on the NYC car,
looking at the 7 long side ribs mid-way along the car side, in the area of
the deep fishbelly sill , I believe the 1st and 7th of those ribs is closer
to the point where the car side sill slopes upward. On the Erie car, it
appears the ribs are not as close to the point where the upward side sill
slope begins. I'd estimate the difference is about equal to one rivet
spacing (guessing about 3 or 4 inches.)

- snip -


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: nyc 706970 gondola

greg kennelly
 

Hi Rob,

A comparison of the January 1953 ORER listings for the Erie gondolas (series 14500 - 14949) and the NYC gondolas (series 706500 - 747999) shows that the Erie cars were 6" longer than the NYC ones (50'-6" IL vs 50'-0" IL) with a slightly larger capacity (1439 CUFT vs 1428 CUFT). This may account for the difference you are seeing in rib spacing.

Cheers,
Greg Kennelly
Burnaby, BC

--- In STMFC@..., Robert Kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

- snip ->
A couple of differences I think I see so far:

- snip -> - it may be an illusion, but I think the spacing of the side ribs is
slightly different. This isn't easy to describe, but on the NYC car,
looking at the 7 long side ribs mid-way along the car side, in the area of
the deep fishbelly sill , I believe the 1st and 7th of those ribs is closer
to the point where the car side sill slopes upward. On the Erie car, it
appears the ribs are not as close to the point where the upward side sill
slope begins. I'd estimate the difference is about equal to one rivet
spacing (guessing about 3 or 4 inches.)

- snip -


L&NE and CNJ 50 ton hoppers -- appropriate models?

Brian LaManna
 

Hello List,
As a prototypical freelance modeler of the post WWII northern New Jersey railroad scene, I realize it would be in my interest to have some anthracite road hoppers. Looking at the '36 AAR standard and related 50 ton hopper overview in RRPCYC #25, I'm curious if the Kadee model is appropriate for either CRP/CNJ and/or LNE? My apologies if this has been discussed before and I overlooked it.
Thank you,
Brian LaManna/Moncton, NB


Re: automotive lacquer (was ...Testors...)

Richard Hendrickson
 

On May 25, 2013, at 8:24 AM, Matthew <mforsyth127@...> wrote:

Jon Miller wrote:

Actually, I meant that as a kind of joke. It is/was used as
advertising with modelers paint but I forget the last time I saw it.

John,

So did I.

There might be a tiny kernel of truth about the particulate size of pigments in some paints for modeling use, but given my own experience using a host of different types/kinds of paint on models in various scales, I've always thought is was more of a marketing ploy than anything. It's all about how the product is thinned and applied.

So, just how big does a molecule of carbon black have to be, before it starts to hide the rivets on the side of your hopper model?


M. Forsyth



Re: "Model RR Paint" Alternatives...

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

Well, I'm convinced that paints intended for other applications will also work on our models. I guess there is a greater - much greater - range of possibilities than I might have imagined. Perhaps I need to experiment a little more.

Sincere thanks to all who contributed to this thread. I feel I have benefited.

Gene Green


Re: "Model RR Paint" Alternatives...

mforsyth127
 

Folks,

Many years ago a wise "O" Scaler, the late Bob Sypher educated me about using paint from sources other than those made for RR models.

Bob was a product of the early 1950's, and about all that was available for models back then was Stewart-Lundahl 410M. I've never used the stuff myself, but Bob told me that it was like painting with mud.

Guys from that era were always looking for alternatives, and would try everything from stove black to house paint.

In 1989 I had just completed an "O" Scale Intermountain '37 std. kit, detailed for the DL&W. Bob asked me what I was going to paint it, and I replied, "Floquil Boxcar Red". He said, "you can, but it's not right".

He told me that I needed a correct mix for what he called "Lackawanna Plum", and since I planned on building and painting several cars for the DL&W, suggested that I go down to the local paint store, and have them custom mix me a quart of enamel for that road.

He had a color sample he had salvaged from an actual DL&W XM, and sent me and it to the store, where I had the color mixed.

I shot the car with the paint (an industrial enamel) and was thrilled with the results. I have since painted a dozen cars from that quart, and still have half of it left after 23 years, and it's still in great shape.

In 2008 I wanted to do the same for some Lehigh Valley cars I was building. Again, Bob sent me to the paint store with a sample of what he called, "Lehigh Valley Pinky Red". This time, the store mixed it using Pittsburgh "Manor Hall" semi gloss interior Alkyd.

Here's the label on the can...

http://mattforsyth.com/?attachment_id=1393

And the recipe...

http://mattforsyth.com/?attachment_id=1394

Finally, here's an image of an "O" scale LV PS-1 that was shot with this paint. I thinned it with mineral spirits, and sprayed it with a Paasche VL, using a medium tip and 25 psi at the gun.

http://mattforsyth.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/LV-PS-1.jpg

This paint contains silica, levels beautifully, and dries to a glass-like finish, perfect for decaling.

Matt Forsyth


Freight car history and modeling

Jared Harper
 

Are we going to get back to freight car history and modeling? I think we have beaten this paint thing to death.

Jared Harper
Athens, GA

78521 - 78540 of 194714