Date   

Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color?

drgwrail
 

Back some years ago when Bob Mohonwski and I wrote a three part article on milk cars for RMC, I visited the Pfaudler Company in Rochester NY. Hoped to find any information of the milk tank cars.
 
I was told that Pfaudler never had anything to do with the actual construction of the cars. Pfaudler just made glass lined steel tanks  and partly financed the joint venture with Genral American.  There was no one there who could really supply any information on the milk cars. But there was a large photograph of one of the cars lettered for a brewery to carry beer. Unfortuantely I can't recall the brewery name.
 
The Chateau-Martin were former milk cars that were acquired by the company to carry wine.
 
Far as I know Pfaudler is still in the business of making glass lined steel tanks.
 
Chuck Yungkurth
Boulder CO

________________________________
From: "va661midlo@..." <va661midlo@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color?

 

I noticed that one photo shows that this particular car was last leased to Fleishmann Distilleries Corporation. Were they were used for fluids other than milk? Any ideas what was shipped other than milk? It might expand the modeler's use of these cars besides movement of milk.

Ken Montero

----- Original Message -----
From: "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2013 11:28:43 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color?

--- In STMFC@... , "cereshill" <cereshill@...> wrote:

Fellas,

I am not sure what the correct paint color is for these cars. Any advice appreciated!

Brad Andonian
The one we have at IRM, GPEX 1021, is Pullman Green with yellow lettering. This link should take you to photos:

http://www.irm.org/gallery/GPEX1021

Surprisingly, that's still the original paint. I remember the car when it arrived in 1974 or thereabouts, and the gloss was gone from the paint then. It was a rather light, yellowish version of Pullman Green.

Dennis

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color?

Douglas Harding
 

Ken, Fleishmann was a major player in the yeast market, ie yeast for making
bread etc. You might look up yeast and how its manufactured for more
information.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color?

 

CMWX (Chateau Martin) had several steel Pfaudler cars, albeit painted in
their magenta paint scheme, for hauling wine. See
http://coastdaylight.com/chatmart/cmwx_roster_1.html for examples.
(including one by me). Use of these cars by Chateau Martin, however was
after 1960.

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: <va661midlo@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Monday, June 3, 2013 9:42 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color?







I noticed that one photo shows that this particular car was last leased to
Fleishmann Distilleries Corporation. Were they were used for fluids other
than milk? Any ideas what was shipped other than milk? It might expand the
modeler's use of these cars besides movement of milk.

Ken Montero

----- Original Message -----
From: "soolinehistory" <destorzek@... <mailto:destorzek%40mchsi.com> >
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2013 11:28:43 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color?

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "cereshill"
<cereshill@...> wrote:

Fellas,

I am not sure what the correct paint color is for these cars. Any advice
appreciated!

Brad Andonian
The one we have at IRM, GPEX 1021, is Pullman Green with yellow lettering.
This link should take you to photos:

http://www.irm.org/gallery/GPEX1021

Surprisingly, that's still the original paint. I remember the car when it
arrived in 1974 or thereabouts, and the gloss was gone from the paint then.
It was a rather light, yellowish version of Pullman Green.

Dennis

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color?

Kenneth Montero
 

I noticed that one photo shows that this particular car was last leased to Fleishmann Distilleries Corporation. Were they were used for fluids other than milk? Any ideas what was shipped other than milk? It might expand the modeler's use of these cars besides movement of milk.

Ken Montero

----- Original Message -----
From: "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2013 11:28:43 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color?








--- In STMFC@... , "cereshill" <cereshill@...> wrote:

Fellas,

I am not sure what the correct paint color is for these cars. Any advice appreciated!

Brad Andonian
The one we have at IRM, GPEX 1021, is Pullman Green with yellow lettering. This link should take you to photos:

http://www.irm.org/gallery/GPEX1021

Surprisingly, that's still the original paint. I remember the car when it arrived in 1974 or thereabouts, and the gloss was gone from the paint then. It was a rather light, yellowish version of Pullman Green.

Dennis




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Modeling air hoses on STMFC era car

Guy Wilber
 

Jack wrote:

I beg to disagree on one point. "Glad hand" is a generally understood and commonly used synonym for "air brake hose coupling", which is the defined name per the Cyc.
Jack,

I agree, glad hand is synonymous with the coupling and I apologize for my own misuse of the term in relation to the angle cock handle.

Three railroaders and two truck drivers have light heartedly scolded me tonight, and I accept their corrections as well as yours.

Regards,

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Modeling air hoses on STMFC era car

Jack Mullen
 

I beg to disagree on one point. "Glad hand" is a generally understood and commonly used synonym for "air brake hose coupling", which is the defined name per the Cyc.
I've never heard glad hand (or gladhand) used to refer to part of an angle cock. If you have a reference for that usage, I'd be interested to see it. I think you're referring to the handle of the angle cock, which afaik is just the "angle cock handle".

Jack Mullen

Guy Wilber wrote:


Jim wrote:


"If my observations are correct the way that the air hoses
work is that the end of the air hose has a rubber grommet
(doughnut) in a cavity in the glad hand."

Jim,

What you are referring to as a "gland hand" is called the air brake hose
coupling which was fitted into and clamped to one end of the brake hose
(22-1/2'' long x 2-1/8" O.D.) while the other end of the hose was fitted over
and clamped to the air hose nipple, also cast in malleable iron. The
"grommet" was the air brake hose gasket.

The nipple was threaded into the angle cock which was equipped with a
"glad hand" in order to open or shut off the air flow. Though there were
dimensional specifications for the angle cock - no call out was made for the
material used in their manufacture. Angle cocks were positioned at an
angle of 30 degrees ( /) while looking at the end of the car.

Circa 1943 (slightly revised from 1939) preference for the center line of
the air line was 2-1/2" below the center line of the coupler and 12" to
the right of center. The location of the angle cock from the end of the car
was to be 15" from the pulling face of the coupler (back) to the center of
the glad hand.


Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color?

MDelvec952
 

To add to Dennis's answer, the lettering was imitation gold on the Pfaudler cars, a pretty common color for lettering in the steam era. In the 1980s I looked closely at (wiping clean) the three cars given to museums (IRM, St. Louis and Rio Vista Junction) and they are consistent in the "Dulux" gold color of the lettering.

....Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sun, Jun 2, 2013 11:28 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color?








--- In STMFC@..., "cereshill" <cereshill@...> wrote:

Fellas,

I am not sure what the correct paint color is for these cars. Any advice appreciated!

Brad Andonian
The one we have at IRM, GPEX 1021, is Pullman Green with yellow lettering. This link should take you to photos:

http://www.irm.org/gallery/GPEX1021

Surprisingly, that's still the original paint. I remember the car when it arrived in 1974 or thereabouts, and the gloss was gone from the paint then. It was a rather light, yellowish version of Pullman Green.

Dennis








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color?

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "cereshill" <cereshill@...> wrote:

Fellas,

I am not sure what the correct paint color is for these cars. Any advice appreciated!

Brad Andonian
The one we have at IRM, GPEX 1021, is Pullman Green with yellow lettering. This link should take you to photos:

http://www.irm.org/gallery/GPEX1021

Surprisingly, that's still the original paint. I remember the car when it arrived in 1974 or thereabouts, and the gloss was gone from the paint then. It was a rather light, yellowish version of Pullman Green.

Dennis


Re: NP REFER QUESTIONS

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 2, 2013, at 4:44 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...> wrote:

I am doing a two Northern Pacific refers. The first is in the 947 series ( has truss rods)
and the second is in the 902 series. What is the proper color of the trucks on these refers?
Also which are the best (Tahoe Model hopefully) trucks for these cars.
Bill, in the post-WW-II period, some NP wood sheathed reefers had their original trucks replaced by later ARA types. However, the photos I have of these cars show the 94400-94899 series with Bettendorf T-Section trucks and the 90000-90799 series with early Andrews L-section trucks. Tahoe doesn't make either of them, but Kadee offers both. Their Bettendorf T-section truck is #509 and their Andrews truck is #511. Both are available only in the earlier Kadee versions with "working" springs that look nothing like the real thing, but I've improved their appearance by CA-ing small black styrene "view blocks" on the backs of the side frames so you can't see through the spring boxes. NP reefer trucks were black - or after they had been in service for awhile, dirty, grimy dark gray.

Richard Hendrickson


NP REFER QUESTIONS

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

I am doing a two Northern Pacific refers. The first is in the 947 series ( has truss rods)
and the second is in the 902 series. What is the proper color of the trucks on these refers?
Also which are the best (Tahoe Model hopefully) trucks for these cars.

Thanks in advance.

Bill Pardie


Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color?

Don Burn
 

Basically a Pullman Green color. For more information go to the Yahoo
MilkTrains list

Don Burn

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
cereshill
Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2013 6:57 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color?

Fellas,

I am not sure what the correct paint color is for these cars. Any advice
appreciated!

Brad Andonian



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color?

Brad Andonian
 

Fellas,

I am not sure what the correct paint color is for these cars. Any advice appreciated!

Brad Andonian


Re: Modeling air hoses on STMFC era car

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

As is often the case on this forum, Guy Wilbur has posted the correct information. I am currently revising my Freight Car Underbody Detail clinic and attendant handout and the information on placement of angle cock is fresh in my mind. As I said, Guy is correct.

I have an angle cock complete with 22 inch hose (Guy, did mine shrink a half an inch?), 10" pipe nipple and air brake hose coupling which is often referred to as a "glad hand." (Truckers use the term glad hand as well for the dinky little things they have between their tractors and trailers.)

My nipple/angle cock/hose/coupling assembly came off (with permission) a 1937 AAR 10-0 IH box car. The angle cock still has most of the original paint on it, no accumulation of crude but rust were the paint is gone. Ditto for the coupling except that there is more rust and a lot less paint.

The hose is a very dark gray and anyone looking at it would call it black. That which came off on my hand when I picked it up just now would be termed "black" by any mother in the land.

There is more than one permissible way to secure the hose to the fittings on either end. Automobile radiator hose clamp is one way. Mine are held on with ferrules and these are still a silvery, metallic color with a yellow hue suggestive of cadmium plating???. They stand out as "silver" on an otherwise fairly dark assembly.

Gene Green


Re: Modeling air hoses on STMFC era cars ...

Mikebrock
 

Denny Anspach writes:

"5) As a practical matter, on cars that we operate and use, the plastic hoses from Kadee and CalScale simply do not stand up to routine handling. For a long time, the only solution was to use the PSC brass hoses- which served quite well, and looked great (and still do). However, even they brea, or because of inherent rigidity, come loose from mounts when leveraged. In this respect, the HiTech rubber hoses have been an almost ideal solution. They look good, stand up to handling, and do not interfere with operations."

First, it is good to hear from Denny.

Second, while realizing that I may be causing myself to be drummed out of the RPM world, I must confess that, at times...particularly when nothing else is available...I have used tiny "rubber" wires sans the inside metal for hoses. I'm guessing that I'm using #30 <?> size. I pull the copper out and leave just enough to simulate the glad hand portruding from the end. I know... Anyhow, the wire minus its metal is quite flexible. I believe I began doing this when a broken plastic hose became part of one of my frogs and caused the wreck of ol' 99...or was it the Fast Mail? No...I kinda doubt that the Fast Mail was involved, more likely #28.

Given that I don't model a highly industrialized area [ unless you consider the cattle pen at Buford industrial ], I don't commonly view frt cars from the end so "fat" wheels are not so noticable. In keeping with that I must add that back during one of the early Prototype Rails, quite a few frt cat gurus were present at my layout after the Thursday night dinner. I gathered about 12 or so on the far side of my version of Dale Jct. I then informed them that I was going to run a frt train by them and ask two questions. After the train went by, I asked which car had the Code 88 wheels and which box car was one foot too long. No one got the Code 88 wheel question right and only Bill Schneider got the NP box car right because he produced it. So-called Code 88 wheels and Kadee #5 couplers are not nearly as noticable when viewed from the side as from the ends. Perhaps that's because the #5 is only 1" too thick.

Before I am expelled from the RPM, in my defense, I will say that I am slowly converting frt cars to Code 88 wheels and I discard those "twangies"...the Kadee pins. They go "twang" around the room when I cut them off.

Anyhow, good stuff, Denny.

Mike Brock...twang! There goes another...


New Rapido 52' 6" Mill Gondola

geodyssey <riverob@...>
 

Rapido is producing a Canadian (National Steel Car & Eastern Car Company) mill gon. Nice looking model:
http://www.rapidotrains.com/rapidonewscurrent.html#anchor2

Is this model accurate for, or very close to, any gons owned by a US railroad?

Thanks,
Robert Simpson


Re: Modeling air hoses on STMFC era car

Guy Wilber
 

Jim wrote:


"If my observations are correct the way that the air hoses
work is that the end of the air hose has a rubber grommet
(doughnut) in a cavity in the glad hand."

Jim,

What you are referring to as a "gland hand" is called the air brake hose
coupling which was fitted into and clamped to one end of the brake hose
(22-1/2'' long x 2-1/8" O.D.) while the other end of the hose was fitted over
and clamped to the air hose nipple, also cast in malleable iron. The
"grommet" was the air brake hose gasket.

The nipple was threaded into the angle cock which was equipped with a
"glad hand" in order to open or shut off the air flow. Though there were
dimensional specifications for the angle cock - no call out was made for the
material used in their manufacture. Angle cocks were positioned at an
angle of 30 degrees ( /) while looking at the end of the car.

Circa 1943 (slightly revised from 1939) preference for the center line of
the air line was 2-1/2" below the center line of the coupler and 12" to
the right of center. The location of the angle cock from the end of the car
was to be 15" from the pulling face of the coupler (back) to the center of
the glad hand.

All location dimensions were in relation to the coupler, not the car body
itself, and it was permissible to jockey them, though minimum and maximum
dimensions were established (and revised) within the formula developed by
the MCBA and modified by the ARA and AAR.

Regards,

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada


Re: Modeling air hoses on STMFC era cars ...

Tony Thompson
 

Denny Anspach wrote:
2) Hoses are mounted on an angle so that when the cars are coupled, the air hose ends will naturally meet. This can and does interfere with the common Kadee magnetic glad hands, depending upon length of coupler shank, and just how far out and how high the hose has been mounted.
As Sam Clarke of Kadee is wont to say, the projecting wire below the Kadee couplers is NOT an air hose and certainly not a glad hand, despite Denny apparently having convinced himself that it is. Kadee calls it a "trip pin" and always has. You may choose to think of it as "air-hose-like" or not.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Modeling air hoses on STMFC era cars ...

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...> wrote:

Friends, keep in mind at least some of the following-

1) The ubiquitous over-wide catfish-mouth HO coupler boxes that most of us have to deal with pushes the air hose location far to the side, IMHO a position relative to the coupler that can be quite unrealistic. This is ameriorated somewhat when the fishmouth is filled with an oversized melon-head coupler. The appearance is made worse when the same wide box holds a scale sized coupler- even more so if the coupler does not have a short shank.
Hi Doc, Long time-no see.

There is a placement diagram from the 1922 CBC here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/album/1103907548/pic/list

The steel car dimensions did not change appreciably for the remainder of our era of interest.

Dennis


Re: Modeling air hoses on STMFC era car

Jim Betz
 

Hi again,

I don't want to start a long 'argument' ... but I feel I have
to say what it is that I know (or think I know) that relates to
the color of the brake hoses, the glad hands, and the angle
cocks.

****

If my observations are correct the way that the air hoses
work is that the end of the air hose has a rubber grommet
(doughnut) in a cavity in the glad hand. And the other
glad hand has one also. And the two are compressed to
each other during the coupling up of the hoses in such a
way that the rubber grommets form the seal and the
hole in the grommet allows the air to flow thru the hose
coupling.
My recollection/observation is that the glad hand is a
cast metal piece - possible with some milling to form
the grommet cavity and the faces of the 'lock' that holds
them together. Definitely "no moving parts". You 'simply'
bend/twist the joint to make/break the coupling and the
casting of the metal forms the 'lock'.

I always have thought/assumed that the glad hand was
'just' cast iron/steel. And therefore the rusting of the
exposed surfaces is guaranteed by time. But the part of
the glad hand that the grommet contacts is kept smooth/
clean enough by the pressure/contact/compression of the
rubber grommet that it forms the seal.

I do not know what kind of metal is/was used on the
glad hands. Not sure I really care. They are probably
more than one kind of metal depending upon the
manufacturer and/or era.

Same is true for the angle cocks. The only part of them
that needs to be clean is the internal part that is the
actual valve. I would not be at all surprised to learn
that in the era of this list they were usually either
cast brass or cast galvanized. With some machined
surfaces/parts. And, since they activated with a 90-degree
turn they were most certainly a ball valve of some sort.

****

My observation/experience is that both are "always"
dirty/rusty in color (some shade of brown/tuscan/whatever
you want to call it). Perhaps they started out as galvanized
but they quickly got "too dirty to tell".

The hoses usually started out as black but a few were
red ... and they both got essentially grimy black quickly.

- Jim Betz


Re: Freight Car Measurements

George Corral <g.corral@...>
 

--- Charles Hostetler wrote:

I think there is value, especially for us beginners, to attempt some projects that are maybe a bit above our heads or maybe that just do things in a different way. As an aspiring steam era freight car prototype modeler my view is that our greatest need is for additional definitive prototype information, but that our biggest asset is an unsettled mind (yes I borrowed that line from Asimov...)
Hear hear!

I believe the work Charles is conducting on his own can lead to bigger and better things for our hobby. His knowledge and research could help in the design of accurate prototype models not currently available in today's market. In his endeavor to discover more about freight car design and the assets currently available in building them, I for one, learn along with him.

Thanks, Charles!

George Corral

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