Date   
Re: bizarre MP flat car

John Degnan
 

OOPS! I forgot that attachments are not allowed here. Ok, try this - click the link below :

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/160-16806


John Degnan
@Scaler164
Scaler187@...

----- Original Message -----
From: John Degnan
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 08:20 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] bizarre MP flat car


I can't speak to the origin of the flat car... but... believe it or not, those trucks are available in HO scale! But you gotta buy a Bachmann Caboose to get them as I cannot find them listed separately on the Bachmann site.

(See attachment)

The only difference I see in them is that the model has two leafs and the prototype has three. But if you wanted to build one of these flats, you're good to go with the trucks, at least.


John Degnan
@Scaler164
Scaler187@...

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: stmfc@...
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 09:32 AM
Subject: [STMFC] bizarre MP flat car

there were 16 of these cars on the roster in 1959.. Where on
earth did those leaf spring Andrews trucks come from? Perhaps
from a steam loco tender.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400483491282

Tim O'Connor

Re: bizarre MP flat car

John Degnan
 

I can't speak to the origin of the flat car... but... believe it or not, those trucks are available in HO scale! But you gotta buy a Bachmann Caboose to get them as I cannot find them listed separately on the Bachmann site.

(See attachment)

The only difference I see in them is that the model has two leafs and the prototype has three. But if you wanted to build one of these flats, you're good to go with the trucks, at least.


John Degnan
@Scaler164
Scaler187@...

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: stmfc@...
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 09:32 AM
Subject: [STMFC] bizarre MP flat car



there were 16 of these cars on the roster in 1959.. Where on
earth did those leaf spring Andrews trucks come from? Perhaps
from a steam loco tender.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400483491282

Tim O'Connor



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: bizarre MP flat car

spsalso
 

Now THAT would be fun to see in resin!


Ed

Edward Sutorik

Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars

geodyssey <riverob@...>
 

The page at http://www.krunk.org/~joeshaw/pics/pvt-tank/corx/ states that wort is "beer concentrate". That is incorrect. Wort is just the liquid resulting from steeping grain (malt) in hot water... the first step in the simple process of making beer. Water could be removed from the wort and a concentrated wort shipped, but that's not beer, wort having zero alcohol content as yeast has not been added.

I've been a home brewer for 15 years and a member of a home-brew club. The term "beer concentrate" is misleading, leading people to think of it as something like soft drink syrup or molasses. Some big commercial brewers brew a high gravity (high alcohol) beer that is shipped uncarbonated then finished by adding water, additional flavoring, and CO2 for carbonation at the destination. (Yeech. Most homebrew & microbrews are carbonated/conditioned by adding additional glucose after the beer has been bottles or keged. The yeast digests the glucose producing CO2). The beer that is shipped in bulk is more like a "strong beer". In normal lager brewing, the alcohol level can only reach approx. 8-12%. The lager you buy is typically 3-4%. If beer has been reconstituted from a true concentrate where water is removed, it needs to be labeled as such by law. I've never seen such a beer being sold, but it evidently it exists somewhere.

From a 1992 Coors lawsuit against Anheuser-Busch:

"...Federal law clearly defines "beer concentrate" as beer from which water has been removed and requires brewers who use concentrate to label their products as such. "This is a process which Coors refuses to use in Coors Light, or any of its products," Klugman explained..."

Coors is MillerCoors since 2008.

Robert Simpson

--- In STMFC@..., Patrick Wade <patwadesb@...> wrote:

I'm a new member but I did Google Coors Beer Concentrate and found these
two interesting links, way later than the era we are modeling.

Coors Concentrate Tank Cars<http://www.krunk.org/~joeshaw/pics/pvt-tank/corx/>

Bud Challenges Coors<http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1990-06-01/business/9002140788_1_rocky-mountain-spring-water-coors-busch>

Pat Wade
Santa Barbara, CA



On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Tony Thompson <
thompsonmarytony@...> wrote:

**


Tim O'Connor wrote:
I've never heard of beer being shipped in "bulk" (huge tanks or tank
cars). Do you know of any examples?
You're right, Tim. It's true that far in the future (of this list) Coors
will ship bulk "concentrate" from Golden to satellite facilities for
"completion," but regular beer, whether artificially or naturally
carbonated, does NOT seem like a candidate for bulk shipping. Hopefully our
list's best candidate as beer geek (in Alabama) will chime in on this.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Re: New Rapido 52' 6" Mill Gondola

Bill Schneider
 

Robert,

Jumping in a bit late here, but... in a word... no. However, the majority of the cars were in general service and traveled widely. We have several photos from Bob's, etc. taken in various locations throughout the US.

Bill Schneider
Rapido Trains

--- In STMFC@..., "geodyssey" <riverob@...> wrote:

Rapido is producing a Canadian (National Steel Car & Eastern Car Company) mill gon. Nice looking model:
http://www.rapidotrains.com/rapidonewscurrent.html#anchor2

Is this model accurate for, or very close to, any gons owned by a US railroad?

Thanks,
Robert Simpson

Re: bizarre MP flat car

BRIAN PAUL EHNI
 

MP had a series of flats created by splicing tender frames together. This
may be one of them.

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni




From: Tim O'Connor <@timboconnor>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 8:32 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] bizarre MP flat car









there were 16 of these cars on the roster in 1959.. Where on
earth did those leaf spring Andrews trucks come from? Perhaps
from a steam loco tender.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400483491282

Tim O'Connor

bizarre MP flat car

Tim O'Connor
 

there were 16 of these cars on the roster in 1959.. Where on
earth did those leaf spring Andrews trucks come from? Perhaps
from a steam loco tender.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400483491282

Tim O'Connor

Re: Tank car Challenge

Dennis Storzek
 

Just a reply from the museum folks over on the RyPN board:

Dennis -

Thanks very much for posting this to the Steam Era Freightcars group on Yahoo. The discussion has been very interesting, and I have learned a lot of new things. It was never my intention to paint the car back to its original lettering, but just to find out if it could have been a New York Central car and show it in our museum records that way. From this discussion, I agree that it was not ex-NYC, so that question got answered. I am going to make some changes to the roster I keep of our equipment based on this discussion. I will probably post some comments and/or questions to some of the folks who posted comments on the Steam Era Freight Cars group, but that will be for another day. Again, thanks for posting this. I appreciate it very much.

Les

Thanks again to all who took time to post.

Dennis

Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars (was proper paint color?)

Kenneth Montero
 

Andy,

Coors established a facility in the town of Elkton in Rockingham County, Virginia, in 1990's to do just that. Before then, it was "bootlegged" across the Mississippi River from the Colorado facility.

Ken Montero

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Sperandeo" <asperandeo@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 5:57:25 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars (was proper paint color?)






I heard from a supposedly knowledgeable source that what Coors shipped in tank cars was a concentrate to which the local bottler added water. So much for the Rocky Mountain spring water if that was true, but I offer this with the caveat that I've never seen it confirmed by any other source. When we first got Coors through a local distributor in Austin, Texas, it had been shipped in bottles and cans. (I was in on it from the beginning, because the distributor brought cold cases to the English graduate student's lounge at the University of Texas!)

But I also think Larry Mennie was right that even if true this practice of tank car shipment is too new for STMFC.

So long,

Andy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars

Tony Thompson
 

Bruce Smith wrote:
Professor, Auburn University Brewing Science Program (Yes, we recently created an OFFICIAL Brewing Science Program at Auburn, and I really am, in addition to my major assignment as faculty of the College of Veterinary Medicine, faculty in Brewing Science. I love my job!)
Glad I didn't know about this when it was ME in academe, thinking I had a fun job. <g>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars

Bruce Smith
 

Ok, so that's my cue <VBG>. As noted, beer could certainly be shipped in an uncarbonated form, whether concentrated or not. In fact, at the end of the fermentation process, beer is "flat". Fully fermented beer is naturally antiseptic (its true!) and therefore it should be fine if stored in a clean tank. In addition, the milk tank cars were insulated, which would keep the beer from being exposed to damaging temperature fluctuations. Once at the destination, the beer would need to be bottled or kegged and carbonated. There are 2 ways to do the latter, the first of which is bottle or cask priming where you add sugar (usually malt sugar). This only works if you leave some yeast in the beer and don't filter or pasteurize the beer...which is the way good beers are made! Or you can artificially add CO2 (which is the way Budwiser and Coors are made). You can tell a naturally primed beer by the yeast sediment on the bottom of the bottle, a thing that gets the appellation "real Ale" in the UK. Thus, I think it is certainly possible that the milk tank cars could have been used to transport beer.

An alternative use of a milk tank car in the brewing industry might be to transport yeast slurries or malt syrup although the latter behaves a lot like molasses and might need heater pipes to make it flow.

Regards
Bruce
Bruce F. Smith
Professor, Auburn University Brewing Science Program (Yes, we recently created an OFFICIAL Brewing Science Program at Auburn, and I really am, in addition to my major assignment as faculty of the College of Veterinary Medicine, faculty in Brewing Science. I love my job!)

________________________________________
From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...] on behalf of Tony Thompson [thompsonmarytony@...]
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 5:11 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: { SPAM 2 }:[STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars

Tim O'Connor wrote:
I've never heard of beer being shipped in "bulk" (huge tanks or tank cars). Do you know of any examples?
You're right, Tim. It's true that far in the future (of this list) Coors will ship bulk "concentrate" from Golden to satellite facilities for "completion," but regular beer, whether artificially or naturally carbonated, does NOT seem like a candidate for bulk shipping. Hopefully our list's best candidate as beer geek (in Alabama) will chime in on this.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars

dahminator68
 

Not that this has anything to do with our era, but last I heard, Coors was no longer shipping concentrated beer in the tank cars.
They were sitting around east Golden for a long time, but I'm not sure if the tanks are being used for something else or what.
Andrew Dahm
westerfieldmodels.com


________________________________
From: Patrick Wade <patwadesb@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars


I'm a new member but I did Google Coors Beer Concentrate and found these
two interesting links, way later than the era we are modeling.

Coors Concentrate Tank Cars<http://www.krunk.org/~joeshaw/pics/pvt-tank/corx/>

Bud Challenges Coors<http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1990-06-01/business/9002140788_1_rocky-mountain-spring-water-coors-busch>

Pat Wade
Santa Barbara, CA



On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Tony Thompson <
thompsonmarytony@...> wrote:

**


Tim O'Connor wrote:
I've never heard of beer being shipped in "bulk" (huge tanks or tank
cars). Do you know of any examples?
You're right, Tim. It's true that far in the future (of this list) Coors
will ship bulk "concentrate" from Golden to satellite facilities for
"completion," but regular beer, whether artificially or naturally
carbonated, does NOT seem like a candidate for bulk shipping. Hopefully our
list's best candidate as beer geek (in Alabama) will chime in on this.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars

Patrick Wade
 

I'm a new member but I did Google Coors Beer Concentrate and found these
two interesting links, way later than the era we are modeling.

Coors Concentrate Tank Cars<http://www.krunk.org/~joeshaw/pics/pvt-tank/corx/>

Bud Challenges Coors<http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1990-06-01/business/9002140788_1_rocky-mountain-spring-water-coors-busch>

Pat Wade
Santa Barbara, CA



On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Tony Thompson <
thompsonmarytony@...> wrote:

**


Tim O'Connor wrote:
I've never heard of beer being shipped in "bulk" (huge tanks or tank
cars). Do you know of any examples?
You're right, Tim. It's true that far in the future (of this list) Coors
will ship bulk "concentrate" from Golden to satellite facilities for
"completion," but regular beer, whether artificially or naturally
carbonated, does NOT seem like a candidate for bulk shipping. Hopefully our
list's best candidate as beer geek (in Alabama) will chime in on this.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars

Tony Thompson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
I've never heard of beer being shipped in "bulk" (huge tanks or tank cars). Do you know of any examples?
You're right, Tim. It's true that far in the future (of this list) Coors will ship bulk "concentrate" from Golden to satellite facilities for "completion," but regular beer, whether artificially or naturally carbonated, does NOT seem like a candidate for bulk shipping. Hopefully our list's best candidate as beer geek (in Alabama) will chime in on this.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: Other uses?

George Eichelberger
 

I have a photo of one of the "milk" cars at the SCL Lakeland, FL RIP track in the early 1970s. I understand it was being used to ship orange juice concentrate some where "up nawth".

Ike

Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color?

mrprksr <mrprksr@...>
 

Orange Juice was shipped in Pfaudler cars...there is a Picture of EverSweet car
GPEX 977 in Model Railroading...1986...Sep/Oct...page25.....also several other
cars.....Larry Mennie




________________________________
From: Charles R Yungkurth <drgwrail@...>
To: "STMFC@..." <STMFC@...>
Sent: Mon, June 3, 2013 11:52:16 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color?


Back some years ago when Bob Mohonwski and I wrote a three part article on milk
cars for RMC, I visited the Pfaudler Company in Rochester NY. Hoped to find any
information of the milk tank cars.

I was told that Pfaudler never had anything to do with the actual construction
of the cars. Pfaudler just made glass lined steel tanks and partly financed the
joint venture with Genral American. There was no one there who could really
supply any information on the milk cars. But there was a large photograph of one
of the cars lettered for a brewery to carry beer. Unfortuantely I can't recall
the brewery name.

The Chateau-Martin were former milk cars that were acquired by the company to
carry wine.

Far as I know Pfaudler is still in the business of making glass lined steel
tanks.

Chuck Yungkurth
Boulder CO

________________________________
From: "va661midlo@..." <va661midlo@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color?



I noticed that one photo shows that this particular car was last leased to
Fleishmann Distilleries Corporation. Were they were used for fluids other than
milk? Any ideas what was shipped other than milk? It might expand the modeler's
use of these cars besides movement of milk.


Ken Montero

----- Original Message -----
From: "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2013 11:28:43 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: proper paint color?

--- In STMFC@... , "cereshill" <cereshill@...> wrote:

Fellas,

I am not sure what the correct paint color is for these cars. Any advice
appreciated!


Brad Andonian
The one we have at IRM, GPEX 1021, is Pullman Green with yellow lettering. This
link should take you to photos:


http://www.irm.org/gallery/GPEX1021

Surprisingly, that's still the original paint. I remember the car when it
arrived in 1974 or thereabouts, and the gloss was gone from the paint then. It
was a rather light, yellowish version of Pullman Green.


Dennis

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars (was proper paint color?)

Andy Sperandeo
 

I heard from a supposedly knowledgeable source that what Coors shipped in tank cars was a concentrate to which the local bottler added water. So much for the Rocky Mountain spring water if that was true, but I offer this with the caveat that I've never seen it confirmed by any other source. When we first got Coors through a local distributor in Austin, Texas, it had been shipped in bottles and cans. (I was in on it from the beginning, because the distributor brought cold cases to the English graduate student's lounge at the University of Texas!)

But I also think Larry Mennie was right that even if true this practice of tank car shipment is too new for STMFC.

So long,

Andy

Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars (was proper paint color?)

al_brown03
 

Not in the steam era, though the post after yours cites a more recent example.

AL B.

--- In STMFC@..., timboconnor@... wrote:

Al

I've never heard of beer being shipped in "bulk" (huge tanks or tank cars). Do you know of any examples?

Tim O'Connor

----- Original Message -----
From: "al_brown03" <abrown@...>

This is total speculation, but I'd be a little surprised if too much beer were shipped in bulk as opposed to in kegs. It's similar to the difference between bulk milk vs milk in cans, except milk doesn't go flat.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.




Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars (was proper paint color?)

mrprksr <mrprksr@...>
 

Too new for STMFC but I believe Coors was shipping Beer East in tank
cars....Larry Mennie




________________________________
From: "@timboconnor" <@timboconnor>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Mon, June 3, 2013 4:33:45 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars (was proper paint
color?)


Al

I've never heard of beer being shipped in "bulk" (huge tanks or tank cars). Do
you know of any examples?


Tim O'Connor

----- Original Message -----
From: "al_brown03" <abrown@...>

This is total speculation, but I'd be a little surprised if too much beer were
shipped in bulk as opposed to in kegs. It's similar to the difference between
bulk milk vs milk in cans, except milk doesn't go flat.


Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: GPEX Pfaudler Steel Milk Car: beer cars (was proper paint color?)

Tim O'Connor
 

Al

I've never heard of beer being shipped in "bulk" (huge tanks or tank cars). Do you know of any examples?

Tim O'Connor

----- Original Message -----
From: "al_brown03" <abrown@...>

This is total speculation, but I'd be a little surprised if too much beer were shipped in bulk as opposed to in kegs. It's similar to the difference between bulk milk vs milk in cans, except milk doesn't go flat.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.