Date   

Wabash decals

Bill McCoy
 

While cleaning up preparatory to moving I found a set of Wabash freight car decals I suspect from a Tichy panel side hopper I sold sometime back.

I'll mail them to anyone who wants them. First come first served.

Bill McCoy
Jax, FL (but not for long)


Re: Weathering freight cars

Jim Betz
 

Hi,

I use acrylic washes as my "primary technique" for weathering.

And I mix the washes for each weathering sessions - and vary
the mix of black, white, red oxide, brown oxide each time.
In addition, I vary the amount of wash applied to the individual
cars in any one weathering session. And some times I am
doing only 1 car and other times as many as 5 or more.
Finally - I often vary the mix of the colors in the wash(es)
during the session ... usually, but not always, working from
the darker shades to lighter ones later in the session.

I also almost always do some "dry brush weathering" that
involves applying weathering colors to the "details" such as
the fans/grills on a diesel, the trucks, the parts of the model
that are metal on the prototype.

And, of course, the under body, ends, and roofs are treated
differently than the sides, etc., etc., etc.

****

My objectives/goals for weathering are pretty simple to
list:

1) Every piece I do "isn't finished" until it gets some level
of weathering. That varies from "just" dull coat to a
level that is referred to as "heavy weathering". (Yes,
that "every" includes locos and passenger cars and
cabeese and plastic and brass!)

2) When you look at "a yard/train comprised of all of my
cars" if you

a) take a quick glance you would say "they all look
the same" and "they are all weathered" (especially
if they are STMFCs)

b) take the time to look/study more you would say
"yes, there are fairly large differences in the
amount of weathering from car to car" ... and
you would be able to identify the individual cars
as having been in some particular service or
part of the country ... where appropriate.

c) in depth study of the cars would reveal different
techniques and/or fairly large differences in the
way a particular technique has been applied.

Those are my goals. I'm sure many of you share them.
I'm also certain that many of you have different goals.
And we are "all correct"!
- Jim

P.S. Go back and look at that pic of the train in Colorado
in 1958 ... the first glance says "the cars in this train
are all weathered" ... then with just a bit more study
you see that some are actually fairly new and some
make it even hard to tell what road they are ... and all
the cars near the power (around the curve) look
"all the same" and other than knowing which are
box cars and which aren't there is very little other
intel available.


Re: Weathering freight cars

Charlie Duckworth
 

Here's a example from Jack Delano of the differences in the weathering on eastern RR cars vs western RRs in the 1940's.

http://chnm.gmu.edu/courses/magic/westover/images/provisolg.jpg

Charlie Duckworth

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

On Jun 13, 2013, at 12:01 PM, Craig Zeni <clzeni@...> wrote:


I'd like to offer this photo from September 1958 in Buford, Wyoming. Some very weathered cars, a couple not so much. My favorite is the NS Rwy car in front of the ACL car...

http://preview.tinyurl.com/clean-dirty-1958

Craig, that's a very instructive photo provided you remember that, by 9/58, steam locomotives were largely gone from the North American railroads. A decade earlier, those cars would have been equally weathered to various degrees (as the photo clearly shows) but a whole lot dirtier.

Richard Hendrickson





Re: DL&W double sheathed boxcar roof question

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 13, 2013, at 6:20 PM, "Bud Rindfleisch" <BlackDiamondRR@gmail.com> wrote:
Gents,
Asking for a friend who is not on line, what type of roof was used on the DL&W double sheathed boxcars? Was there more than one type? Any good photos?
Bud, I assume you're referring to the 40' ARA-desing cars, They were built with Hutchins Dry Lading roofs, but those were replaced in the 1940s with Murphy rectangular panel roofs. I have photos of cars with both the original and replacement roofs, but they only show the roof edges.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Weathering freight cars

Craig Zeni
 

On Jun 13, 2013, at 9:47 PM, STMFC@yahoogroups.com wrote:___________
3.7. Re: Weathering freight cars
Posted by: "Richard Hendrickson" rhendrickson@opendoor.com n1605g
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:46 pm ((PDT))

On Jun 13, 2013, at 12:01 PM, Craig Zeni <clzeni@gmail.com> wrote:


I'd like to offer this photo from September 1958 in Buford, Wyoming. Some very weathered cars, a couple not so much. My favorite is the NS Rwy car in front of the ACL car...

http://preview.tinyurl.com/clean-dirty-1958

Craig, that's a very instructive photo provided you remember that, by 9/58, steam locomotives were largely gone from the North American railroads. A decade earlier, those cars would have been equally weathered to various degrees (as the photo clearly shows) but a whole lot dirtier.
Indeed - I picked that up from your clinics at Cocoa :) though I'm still using Tony's acrylic washes for weathering. I'm modeling circa 1950 so there won't be many cars as clean as that ACL or NS car and more like the C&O car and NKP car...

CZ
Grievous Error NC :) :)


Re: MKT 36' DS boxcar

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 13, 2013, at 7:44 AM, gary laakso <vasa0vasa@earthlink.net> wrote:

There is a picture of one of these cars in a Santa Fe train in 1940 in Santa Fe Heritage Vol at page 166. It has Murphy ends and a fish belly. A telephone line covers the number. What were the numbers of these cars? It appears that the car is in MKT yellow with the side repaint for a reweigh a very, very light color. Was this class painted yellow?
Gary, I'm sending you off-list an excellent photo of one of these cars from the Arnold Menke collection.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Weathering freight cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 13, 2013, at 12:01 PM, Craig Zeni <clzeni@gmail.com> wrote:


I'd like to offer this photo from September 1958 in Buford, Wyoming. Some very weathered cars, a couple not so much. My favorite is the NS Rwy car in front of the ACL car...

http://preview.tinyurl.com/clean-dirty-1958

Craig, that's a very instructive photo provided you remember that, by 9/58, steam locomotives were largely gone from the North American railroads. A decade earlier, those cars would have been equally weathered to various degrees (as the photo clearly shows) but a whole lot dirtier.

Richard Hendrickson


DL&W double sheathed boxcar roof question

Bud Rindfleisch
 

Gents,
Asking for a friend who is not on line, what type of roof was used on the DL&W double sheathed boxcars? Was there more than one type? Any good photos?
Thanks,
Bud Rindfleisch


Re: MKT 36' DS boxcar

Tom Palmer
 

Hi Gary,

In the October 1940 ORER MKT lists 297 cars in the
74105-75597 36' steel under frame boxcars. There were two groups of DS cars
of similar appearance. One group built in 1913 by ACF and a group built in
1923 by the MKT shops. Several of the 1913 cars were rebuilt into cabooses
in 1941. During the war many other cars from both groups were rebuilt into
MW cars. After the war what was left were either scrapped or went to MW. Yes
most were painted yellow when shopped in the late 1930's and early 1940's to
supply cars for the war effort. None were upgraded to AB brakes. There is
one of the caboose rebuilds located in Smithville Texas that is privately
owned.

Best regards,

Tom Palmer

Stafford, Texas

Modeling the Katy in 1952



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gary
laakso
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 9:45 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] MKT 36' DS boxcar





There is a picture of one of these cars in a Santa Fe train in 1940 in Santa
Fe Heritage Vol at page 166. It has Murphy ends and a fish belly. A
telephone line covers the number. What were the numbers of these cars? It
appears that the car is in MKT yellow with the side repaint for a reweigh a
very, very light color. Was this class painted yellow?

gary laakso
south of Mike Brock


Re: Weathering freight cars

Tony Thompson
 

Bruce Smith wrote:
My favorite is the NKP right behind the ACL car <VBG> Talk about a range of weathering in just 3 cars...
Nah. That's one of Armand's "grievous errors," isn't it? <g>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Weathering freight cars

Bill Schneider
 

Man. there really IS nothing at Bruceford.. errr.. Buford!



Obviously Mike just took that NS car out of the box. He kind of overdid the
NKP car I think...



Great shot.


Bill Schneider



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Bruce F. Smith
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 3:27 PM
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re:[STMFC] Re: Weathering freight cars





BRUCEFORD!

My favorite is the NKP right behind the ACL car <VBG> Talk about a range of
weathering in just 3 cars...

Regards

Bruce

Bruce F. Smith

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

__

/ &#92;

__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________

|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |

| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||

|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|

| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0

On Jun 13, 2013, at 2:01 PM, Craig Zeni wrote:

I'd like to offer this photo from September 1958 in Buford, Wyoming. Some
very weathered cars, a couple not so much. My favorite is the NS Rwy car in
front of the ACL car...

http://preview.tinyurl.com/clean-dirty-1958

Craig Zeni


Re: Weathering freight cars

Bruce Smith
 

BRUCEFORD!

My favorite is the NKP right behind the ACL car <VBG> Talk about a range of weathering in just 3 cars...


Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/


"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

__

/ &#92;

__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________

|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |

| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||

|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|

| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0

On Jun 13, 2013, at 2:01 PM, Craig Zeni wrote:

I'd like to offer this photo from September 1958 in Buford, Wyoming. Some very weathered cars, a couple not so much. My favorite is the NS Rwy car in front of the ACL car...

http://preview.tinyurl.com/clean-dirty-1958

Craig Zeni


Re: : Weathering freight cars (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Guys;

I wholeheartedly support all the great views that have been presented here, and can only add a few additional points:

Jack Consoli and I did an in-depth weathering clinic at the PRRT&HS meet a few weeks ago, and I stared at hundreds of images before preparing the PowerPoint, and we both stressed the following additional points:

1) Look long and hard at a photo of a car you want to replicate, and determine what you are REALLY looking at: soot? Soot/dirt collecting in seams? Rust development in seams and on rivets? Paint fade? Peeling? Corrosion on sheets? What is the sequence you need to follow to replicate that? Look long and HARD!

2) Age since last Paint and Lettering is a very large determinant in how something looks. Measureable weathering is evident on cars only one year after new P&L, and it progresses exponentially (almost along an S-shaped curve) through the life of that P&L, before it gets to be uniformly horrible.

3) Certain roads, with huge fleets, had a higher percentage of truly horrible cars. PRR and NYC were both big offenders.

4) No one method produces perfect results. Prepare yourself to draw many tools out of the tool kit. Washes, powders, chalk, pencils, highlighting, airbrushing, drybrushing, all have their roles. I am now using them all to some degree.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of michaelegross
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 2:53 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: :[STMFC] Weathering freight cars

Gentlemen,

My two cents on the excellent weathering notes that have already been offered by the group: as with most modeling, I think we come closest to verisimilitude-to fooling our viewers into thinking they are looking at a prototype-when we model the common, the ordinary, as opposed to portraying the unusual and the extraordinary. This applies to weathering as much as it does to most modeling, and I often remind myself of this lest I go seriously "off the rails."

That's my rule, but as your model railroad is yours-and yours alone-you should do anything you please.

Cheers!

Michael

Michael Gross
La Cañada, CA






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: Weathering freight cars

Craig Zeni
 

On Jun 12, 2013, at 11:39 PM, STMFC@yahoogroups.com wrote:

2a. Re: :[STMFC] Weathering freight cars
Posted by: "Tony Thompson" tony@signaturepress.com sigpress
Date: Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:16 pm ((PDT))

Armand Premo wrote:
For what it's worth,I believe the most grievous error a modeler can make is to over do weathering.My taste lean more to subtle weathering.An overly weathered car will stand out as much as a brightly colored car.Visitors will remember it.A technique that I favor is to star with the basic color and go from there.Others might favor mixing a diluted tone.I do not profess to be an expert on weathering ,but feel strongly that it is a matter of individual taste.After all it is Your model and as long as you are satisfied with it that's really all that matters.

Richard Hendrickson may chime in here, as he believes, on considerable photographic evidence, that it is difficult to over-weather steam era freight cars. But I would disagree with the idea that as long as YOU like it, it's okay. Um, no. On this topic I like to quote Tony Koester's comment, that if you are really interested in model RAILROADING, you try to duplicate aspects of real world railroads. (Otherwise you are just having fun with train models.) Certainly an entire steam-era freight car fleet which is uniformly and lightly weathered cannot be said to duplicate reality.
As Armand says, it's true that ONE severely weathered car will stand out among lightly weathered or unweathered ones. I believe that instead, there should be a gradation, from almost new cars to ones on which it is hard to read the lettering, with a range of cars weathered everywhere in between.
Of course I agree with Armand that weathering, like so much else, is a matter of individual taste, and that we all satisfy primarily ourselves, at the end of the day. But to me, that does NOT mean that whatever you choose to do is equally realistic.
I'd like to offer this photo from September 1958 in Buford, Wyoming. Some very weathered cars, a couple not so much. My favorite is the NS Rwy car in front of the ACL car...

http://preview.tinyurl.com/clean-dirty-1958

Craig Zeni
Mayberry, NC


Re: : Weathering freight cars

michaelegross <michaelEGross@...>
 

Gentlemen,

My two cents on the excellent weathering notes that have already been offered by the group: as with most modeling, I think we come closest to verisimilitudeto fooling our viewers into thinking they are looking at a prototypewhen we model the common, the ordinary, as opposed to portraying the unusual and the extraordinary. This applies to weathering as much as it does to most modeling, and I often remind myself of this lest I go seriously "off the rails."

That's my rule, but as your model railroad is yoursand yours aloneyou should do anything you please.

Cheers!

Michael

Michael Gross
La Caada, CA






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: : Weathering freight cars

Charlie Duckworth
 

Ben
Thanks for the correction.

Charlie Duckworth

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:

Charlie Duckworth wrote:

"...WPA color shots of the freight cars shot in the CNW yards..."
 
NOT WPA.  The agencies commissioning the work in this collection were the Resettlement Administration, Farm Services Administration and later, the Office of War Information.  Too much folklore in the hobby without us adding more.
http://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/fsa/
 
 
Ben Hom



Re: Weathering freight cars

Paul Hillman
 

I thought that I'd achieved a reasonable paint and lettering fading-effect, by lightly, and completely, over-spraying a finished, decaled car with it's main color, of water-based acrylic paint, let it sit just a few minutes, then brush over the car heavily with denatured alcohol -or- isopropyl alcohol (I don't remember which one because I haven't done this for quite a while) and I came up with a pretty natural looking affect. I think someone on this list mentioned doing this type of thing before.

I will be trying this soon as I have several cars to weather and put on the rails.

Paul Hillman

----- Original Message -----
From: cj riley<mailto:cjriley42@yahoo.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com<mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Weathering freight cars



Jim,
I have had consistently good results using powdered color or chalk (and sometimes eye shadow) to represent faded (sometimes called chalking) paint. Since the oxidizing of the paint creates a slight texture, the powdered material achieves that subtle fade and oxidation. The appearance changes slightly with a light application of fixative but the sense of fading and texture remains. I have not been able to achieve that appearance any other way.

CJ Riley

Bainbridge Island WA

--- On Wed, 6/12/13, jimbetz <jimbetz@jimbetz.com<mailto:jimbetz%40jimbetz.com>> wro

I have experimented with many, many different "weathering

agents" over the years - trying to get that "faded paint" look

that I think your son wants to do.

I have never even

gotten close to the look of "paint that has oxidized due to

time". .


Re: Weathering freight cars

CJ Riley
 

Jim,
I have had consistently good results using powdered color or chalk (and sometimes eye shadow) to represent faded (sometimes called chalking) paint.  Since the oxidizing of the paint creates a slight texture, the powdered material achieves that subtle fade and oxidation. The appearance changes slightly with a light application of fixative but the sense of fading and texture remains. I have not been able to achieve that appearance any other way.

CJ Riley

Bainbridge Island WA

--- On Wed, 6/12/13, jimbetz <jimbetz@jimbetz.com> wro


I have experimented with many, many different "weathering

agents" over the years - trying to get that "faded paint" look

that I think your son wants to do.
 
I have never even

gotten close to the look of "paint that has oxidized due to

time". .


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


MKT 36' DS boxcar

gary laakso
 

There is a picture of one of these cars in a Santa Fe train in 1940 in Santa Fe Heritage Vol at page 166. It has Murphy ends and a fish belly. A telephone line covers the number. What were the numbers of these cars? It appears that the car is in MKT yellow with the side repaint for a reweigh a very, very light color. Was this class painted yellow?

gary laakso
south of Mike Brock


Re: : Weathering freight cars

Benjamin Hom
 

Charlie Duckworth wrote:

"...WPA color shots of the freight cars shot in the CNW yards..."
 
NOT WPA.  The agencies commissioning the work in this collection were the Resettlement Administration, Farm Services Administration and later, the Office of War Information.  Too much folklore in the hobby without us adding more.
http://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/fsa/
 
 
Ben Hom

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