Date   

Re: Wabash decals

Bill McCoy
 

The decals are gone. Thanks.

Bill McCoy

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Bill" <wpmccoy@...> wrote:

While cleaning up preparatory to moving I found a set of Wabash freight car decals I suspect from a Tichy panel side hopper I sold sometime back.

I'll mail them to anyone who wants them. First come first served.

Bill McCoy
Jax, FL (but not for long)


Re: Why don't we ... ?

Charles Happel
 

Twenty years of working on locomotives was one of the dirtiest jobs I ever had.  Had to keep clothes specially for work, and a separate washing machine to clean them.  Some lubricant and carbon stains never came out, even using gasoline to clean them.  Despite having a place to clean up, there was no getting carbon dust out of my hands other than waiting for it to wear off.

Chuck Happel



"I never said half the crap people said I did."

Albert Einstein

--- On Fri, 6/14/13, Al and Patricia Westerfield <westerfieldalfred@frontier.com> wrote:

From: Al and Patricia Westerfield <westerfieldalfred@frontier.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Why don't we ... ?
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, June 14, 2013, 2:28 PM
















 









Jim – My first job was in a dye factory. We worked in mechanic’s uniforms with no place to clean up at the end of the day. I would come home with blue face and hands. So you can prototypically do some of your figures as zombies. – Al Westerfield



From: Jim

Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 10:14 AM

To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [STMFC] Why don't we ... ?



Hi,



The thread about weathering our freight cars - and my

looking at a photo of a model caboose with a crew member

on the platform - got me to thinking (always a dangerous

thing!) ...



I had jobs back in the 50's. I never worked for a

railroad but several of my early jobs would be candidates

for the TV series "Dirty Jobs". Each day I would go to

work in clean clothes ... and come home covered in

dirt, grass stains (worked for a gardener), grime,

fish stains (worked in a salmon cannery), the seat of

my pants dirty (from where I sat on something to eat

my lunch) ... etc., etc., etc.



So why is it that most guys do not "weather" their

figures?



Yes, there should be areas of the clothes that should

be essentially "fresh from the last time they went thru

the wringer washer" ... but there should also be some

dirt on the knees, cuffs, arms, ... etc.

About the only figures who should be "relatively clean"

would be passenger train crews and maybe the engineer or

conductor of a freight.

- Jim



P.S. I tend not to model "the crew" ... I certainly don't

do so as often as they would be present on the

models. For me I have to balance the desire to have

a crew on/around a freight train ... with the fact

that because they are "static" they tend to not "feel

right/prototypical". That brakeman walking the

back on that GP-7 is great the first time I see him -

and then a few times later it starts to "grate on my

sense of reality" ... *SIGH!* ... it seems like I can

never achieve "perfection" ... whoops, that's one of

the BEST things about this hobby!































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Why don't we ... ?

 

Jim – My first job was in a dye factory. We worked in mechanic’s uniforms with no place to clean up at the end of the day. I would come home with blue face and hands. So you can prototypically do some of your figures as zombies. – Al Westerfield

From: Jim
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 10:14 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Why don't we ... ?


Hi,

The thread about weathering our freight cars - and my
looking at a photo of a model caboose with a crew member
on the platform - got me to thinking (always a dangerous
thing!) ...

I had jobs back in the 50's. I never worked for a
railroad but several of my early jobs would be candidates
for the TV series "Dirty Jobs". Each day I would go to
work in clean clothes ... and come home covered in
dirt, grass stains (worked for a gardener), grime,
fish stains (worked in a salmon cannery), the seat of
my pants dirty (from where I sat on something to eat
my lunch) ... etc., etc., etc.

So why is it that most guys do not "weather" their
figures?

Yes, there should be areas of the clothes that should
be essentially "fresh from the last time they went thru
the wringer washer" ... but there should also be some
dirt on the knees, cuffs, arms, ... etc.
About the only figures who should be "relatively clean"
would be passenger train crews and maybe the engineer or
conductor of a freight.
- Jim

P.S. I tend not to model "the crew" ... I certainly don't
do so as often as they would be present on the
models. For me I have to balance the desire to have
a crew on/around a freight train ... with the fact
that because they are "static" they tend to not "feel
right/prototypical". That brakeman walking the
back on that GP-7 is great the first time I see him -
and then a few times later it starts to "grate on my
sense of reality" ... *SIGH!* ... it seems like I can
never achieve "perfection" ... whoops, that's one of
the BEST things about this hobby!


Re: Weathering freight cars

Mikebrock
 

Jim Betz says:

"Go back and look at that pic of the train in Colorado
in 1958"

I beg your pardon. Colorado? Hmmmpf. Wyoming.

Bill Schneider says:

"Man. there really IS nothing at Bruceford.. errr.. Buford!"

Nothing there? Why...just look at those signals. And the...uh...trees.

I might comment that, while in the distance one can see a locomotive, I would speculate that the smoke is being blown over the engine by wind. Surely the train is motionless...given that it is at Buford.

Mike Brock


Re: Why don't we ... ?

Armand Premo
 

Fully agree with you Jim as long as it is subtle <VBG>The picture of those On3 figures in RMC are superior.Too bad they are not available in HO.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 11:16 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Why don't we ... ?




SORRY - mea culpa ... I was posting online and forgot
to add my full name to the signature. Old
habits die hard!
- Jim Betz


Re: Why don't we ... ?

Jim Betz
 

SORRY - mea culpa ... I was posting online and forgot
to add my full name to the signature. Old
habits die hard!
- Jim Betz


Why don't we ... ?

Jim Betz
 

Hi,

The thread about weathering our freight cars - and my
looking at a photo of a model caboose with a crew member
on the platform - got me to thinking (always a dangerous
thing!) ...

I had jobs back in the 50's. I never worked for a
railroad but several of my early jobs would be candidates
for the TV series "Dirty Jobs". Each day I would go to
work in clean clothes ... and come home covered in
dirt, grass stains (worked for a gardener), grime,
fish stains (worked in a salmon cannery), the seat of
my pants dirty (from where I sat on something to eat
my lunch) ... etc., etc., etc.

So why is it that most guys do not "weather" their
figures?

Yes, there should be areas of the clothes that should
be essentially "fresh from the last time they went thru
the wringer washer" ... but there should also be some
dirt on the knees, cuffs, arms, ... etc.
About the only figures who should be "relatively clean"
would be passenger train crews and maybe the engineer or
conductor of a freight.
- Jim

P.S. I tend not to model "the crew" ... I certainly don't
do so as often as they would be present on the
models. For me I have to balance the desire to have
a crew on/around a freight train ... with the fact
that because they are "static" they tend to not "feel
right/prototypical". That brakeman walking the
back on that GP-7 is great the first time I see him -
and then a few times later it starts to "grate on my
sense of reality" ... *SIGH!* ... it seems like I can
never achieve "perfection" ... whoops, that's one of
the BEST things about this hobby!


Wabash decals

Bill McCoy
 

While cleaning up preparatory to moving I found a set of Wabash freight car decals I suspect from a Tichy panel side hopper I sold sometime back.

I'll mail them to anyone who wants them. First come first served.

Bill McCoy
Jax, FL (but not for long)


Re: Weathering freight cars

Jim Betz
 

Hi,

I use acrylic washes as my "primary technique" for weathering.

And I mix the washes for each weathering sessions - and vary
the mix of black, white, red oxide, brown oxide each time.
In addition, I vary the amount of wash applied to the individual
cars in any one weathering session. And some times I am
doing only 1 car and other times as many as 5 or more.
Finally - I often vary the mix of the colors in the wash(es)
during the session ... usually, but not always, working from
the darker shades to lighter ones later in the session.

I also almost always do some "dry brush weathering" that
involves applying weathering colors to the "details" such as
the fans/grills on a diesel, the trucks, the parts of the model
that are metal on the prototype.

And, of course, the under body, ends, and roofs are treated
differently than the sides, etc., etc., etc.

****

My objectives/goals for weathering are pretty simple to
list:

1) Every piece I do "isn't finished" until it gets some level
of weathering. That varies from "just" dull coat to a
level that is referred to as "heavy weathering". (Yes,
that "every" includes locos and passenger cars and
cabeese and plastic and brass!)

2) When you look at "a yard/train comprised of all of my
cars" if you

a) take a quick glance you would say "they all look
the same" and "they are all weathered" (especially
if they are STMFCs)

b) take the time to look/study more you would say
"yes, there are fairly large differences in the
amount of weathering from car to car" ... and
you would be able to identify the individual cars
as having been in some particular service or
part of the country ... where appropriate.

c) in depth study of the cars would reveal different
techniques and/or fairly large differences in the
way a particular technique has been applied.

Those are my goals. I'm sure many of you share them.
I'm also certain that many of you have different goals.
And we are "all correct"!
- Jim

P.S. Go back and look at that pic of the train in Colorado
in 1958 ... the first glance says "the cars in this train
are all weathered" ... then with just a bit more study
you see that some are actually fairly new and some
make it even hard to tell what road they are ... and all
the cars near the power (around the curve) look
"all the same" and other than knowing which are
box cars and which aren't there is very little other
intel available.


Re: Weathering freight cars

Charlie Duckworth
 

Here's a example from Jack Delano of the differences in the weathering on eastern RR cars vs western RRs in the 1940's.

http://chnm.gmu.edu/courses/magic/westover/images/provisolg.jpg

Charlie Duckworth

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

On Jun 13, 2013, at 12:01 PM, Craig Zeni <clzeni@...> wrote:


I'd like to offer this photo from September 1958 in Buford, Wyoming. Some very weathered cars, a couple not so much. My favorite is the NS Rwy car in front of the ACL car...

http://preview.tinyurl.com/clean-dirty-1958

Craig, that's a very instructive photo provided you remember that, by 9/58, steam locomotives were largely gone from the North American railroads. A decade earlier, those cars would have been equally weathered to various degrees (as the photo clearly shows) but a whole lot dirtier.

Richard Hendrickson





Re: DL&W double sheathed boxcar roof question

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 13, 2013, at 6:20 PM, "Bud Rindfleisch" <BlackDiamondRR@gmail.com> wrote:
Gents,
Asking for a friend who is not on line, what type of roof was used on the DL&W double sheathed boxcars? Was there more than one type? Any good photos?
Bud, I assume you're referring to the 40' ARA-desing cars, They were built with Hutchins Dry Lading roofs, but those were replaced in the 1940s with Murphy rectangular panel roofs. I have photos of cars with both the original and replacement roofs, but they only show the roof edges.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Weathering freight cars

Craig Zeni
 

On Jun 13, 2013, at 9:47 PM, STMFC@yahoogroups.com wrote:___________
3.7. Re: Weathering freight cars
Posted by: "Richard Hendrickson" rhendrickson@opendoor.com n1605g
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:46 pm ((PDT))

On Jun 13, 2013, at 12:01 PM, Craig Zeni <clzeni@gmail.com> wrote:


I'd like to offer this photo from September 1958 in Buford, Wyoming. Some very weathered cars, a couple not so much. My favorite is the NS Rwy car in front of the ACL car...

http://preview.tinyurl.com/clean-dirty-1958

Craig, that's a very instructive photo provided you remember that, by 9/58, steam locomotives were largely gone from the North American railroads. A decade earlier, those cars would have been equally weathered to various degrees (as the photo clearly shows) but a whole lot dirtier.
Indeed - I picked that up from your clinics at Cocoa :) though I'm still using Tony's acrylic washes for weathering. I'm modeling circa 1950 so there won't be many cars as clean as that ACL or NS car and more like the C&O car and NKP car...

CZ
Grievous Error NC :) :)


Re: MKT 36' DS boxcar

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 13, 2013, at 7:44 AM, gary laakso <vasa0vasa@earthlink.net> wrote:

There is a picture of one of these cars in a Santa Fe train in 1940 in Santa Fe Heritage Vol at page 166. It has Murphy ends and a fish belly. A telephone line covers the number. What were the numbers of these cars? It appears that the car is in MKT yellow with the side repaint for a reweigh a very, very light color. Was this class painted yellow?
Gary, I'm sending you off-list an excellent photo of one of these cars from the Arnold Menke collection.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Weathering freight cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 13, 2013, at 12:01 PM, Craig Zeni <clzeni@gmail.com> wrote:


I'd like to offer this photo from September 1958 in Buford, Wyoming. Some very weathered cars, a couple not so much. My favorite is the NS Rwy car in front of the ACL car...

http://preview.tinyurl.com/clean-dirty-1958

Craig, that's a very instructive photo provided you remember that, by 9/58, steam locomotives were largely gone from the North American railroads. A decade earlier, those cars would have been equally weathered to various degrees (as the photo clearly shows) but a whole lot dirtier.

Richard Hendrickson


DL&W double sheathed boxcar roof question

Bud Rindfleisch
 

Gents,
Asking for a friend who is not on line, what type of roof was used on the DL&W double sheathed boxcars? Was there more than one type? Any good photos?
Thanks,
Bud Rindfleisch


Re: MKT 36' DS boxcar

Tom Palmer
 

Hi Gary,

In the October 1940 ORER MKT lists 297 cars in the
74105-75597 36' steel under frame boxcars. There were two groups of DS cars
of similar appearance. One group built in 1913 by ACF and a group built in
1923 by the MKT shops. Several of the 1913 cars were rebuilt into cabooses
in 1941. During the war many other cars from both groups were rebuilt into
MW cars. After the war what was left were either scrapped or went to MW. Yes
most were painted yellow when shopped in the late 1930's and early 1940's to
supply cars for the war effort. None were upgraded to AB brakes. There is
one of the caboose rebuilds located in Smithville Texas that is privately
owned.

Best regards,

Tom Palmer

Stafford, Texas

Modeling the Katy in 1952



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gary
laakso
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 9:45 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] MKT 36' DS boxcar





There is a picture of one of these cars in a Santa Fe train in 1940 in Santa
Fe Heritage Vol at page 166. It has Murphy ends and a fish belly. A
telephone line covers the number. What were the numbers of these cars? It
appears that the car is in MKT yellow with the side repaint for a reweigh a
very, very light color. Was this class painted yellow?

gary laakso
south of Mike Brock


Re: Weathering freight cars

Tony Thompson
 

Bruce Smith wrote:
My favorite is the NKP right behind the ACL car <VBG> Talk about a range of weathering in just 3 cars...
Nah. That's one of Armand's "grievous errors," isn't it? <g>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Weathering freight cars

Bill Schneider
 

Man. there really IS nothing at Bruceford.. errr.. Buford!



Obviously Mike just took that NS car out of the box. He kind of overdid the
NKP car I think...



Great shot.


Bill Schneider



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Bruce F. Smith
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 3:27 PM
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re:[STMFC] Re: Weathering freight cars





BRUCEFORD!

My favorite is the NKP right behind the ACL car <VBG> Talk about a range of
weathering in just 3 cars...

Regards

Bruce

Bruce F. Smith

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

__

/ &#92;

__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________

|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |

| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||

|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|

| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0

On Jun 13, 2013, at 2:01 PM, Craig Zeni wrote:

I'd like to offer this photo from September 1958 in Buford, Wyoming. Some
very weathered cars, a couple not so much. My favorite is the NS Rwy car in
front of the ACL car...

http://preview.tinyurl.com/clean-dirty-1958

Craig Zeni


Re: Weathering freight cars

Bruce Smith
 

BRUCEFORD!

My favorite is the NKP right behind the ACL car <VBG> Talk about a range of weathering in just 3 cars...


Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/


"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

__

/ &#92;

__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________

|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |

| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||

|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|

| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0

On Jun 13, 2013, at 2:01 PM, Craig Zeni wrote:

I'd like to offer this photo from September 1958 in Buford, Wyoming. Some very weathered cars, a couple not so much. My favorite is the NS Rwy car in front of the ACL car...

http://preview.tinyurl.com/clean-dirty-1958

Craig Zeni


Re: : Weathering freight cars (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Guys;

I wholeheartedly support all the great views that have been presented here, and can only add a few additional points:

Jack Consoli and I did an in-depth weathering clinic at the PRRT&HS meet a few weeks ago, and I stared at hundreds of images before preparing the PowerPoint, and we both stressed the following additional points:

1) Look long and hard at a photo of a car you want to replicate, and determine what you are REALLY looking at: soot? Soot/dirt collecting in seams? Rust development in seams and on rivets? Paint fade? Peeling? Corrosion on sheets? What is the sequence you need to follow to replicate that? Look long and HARD!

2) Age since last Paint and Lettering is a very large determinant in how something looks. Measureable weathering is evident on cars only one year after new P&L, and it progresses exponentially (almost along an S-shaped curve) through the life of that P&L, before it gets to be uniformly horrible.

3) Certain roads, with huge fleets, had a higher percentage of truly horrible cars. PRR and NYC were both big offenders.

4) No one method produces perfect results. Prepare yourself to draw many tools out of the tool kit. Washes, powders, chalk, pencils, highlighting, airbrushing, drybrushing, all have their roles. I am now using them all to some degree.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of michaelegross
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 2:53 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: :[STMFC] Weathering freight cars

Gentlemen,

My two cents on the excellent weathering notes that have already been offered by the group: as with most modeling, I think we come closest to verisimilitude-to fooling our viewers into thinking they are looking at a prototype-when we model the common, the ordinary, as opposed to portraying the unusual and the extraordinary. This applies to weathering as much as it does to most modeling, and I often remind myself of this lest I go seriously "off the rails."

That's my rule, but as your model railroad is yours-and yours alone-you should do anything you please.

Cheers!

Michael

Michael Gross
La Cañada, CA






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

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