Date   

Re: CMO Freight Car Color for 1949?

Ed Hawkins
 

On Jun 15, 2013, at 2:23 PM, aaejj2j wrote:

What was the color scheme for the Omaha Road freight cars in 1949?
Specifically box cars, flats, and gondolas are of interest. I assume
the bodies are of a typical freight car red (not interested in the
specific shade). But what I am interested in is the color of the
trucks and other features, e.g. underframe, ends, roof - where the
trucks or any of these features black?
Thank you,
Tyrone Johnsen
Tyrone,
The closest I can find were CMO box cars built by ACF in 10-48 and by
Pullman-Standard in 11-48. The ACF paint specs for CMO 38300-39098
(even) were DuPont CNW #3 for the sides and trucks (side frames).
Everything else black.

The builder's photo of PS-1s 39100-39498 (even) show red sides with
black ends. The underframe and roof was very likely black, but I cannot
confirm without having Pullman paint specs for these cars. A B&W photo
of CMO 39254 in new paint was taken by W.E. Frost (City of Vancouver
Collection) on March 5, 1949. However, from both photos I cannot
determine with any certainty the trucks color.

A color photo of CMO 39132 is available from Bob's Photo. The car has a
reweigh stencils 11-55, and the photo date is 1959. The trucks look
pretty dark, but the original color is difficult to tell for sure with
10 years of use.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


CMO Freight Car Color for 1949?

aaejj2j
 

What was the color scheme for the Omaha Road freight cars in 1949? Specifically box cars, flats, and gondolas are of interest. I assume the bodies are of a typical freight car red (not interested in the specific shade). But what I am interested in is the color of the trucks and other features, e.g. underframe, ends, roof - where the trucks or any of these features black?
Thank you,
Tyrone Johnsen
Rockford, IL


Tahoe Model Works Trucks

Andy Carlson
 

Hello Everyone,

I am able to offer to readers of this post all of the Tahoe trucks made by Brian Leppert. TMW is waiting for wheelsets from their supplier, so I am selling ONLY wheelset-less truck pairs. Many wheelsets are viable candidates, such as Kadee, P2K, NWSL, JayBee, Exactrail and others.

Here is the complete list available:

001  plain Dalman 2-level
002 Dalman 2-level with lateralmotion device
003 40-50 ton 5'6" wb Archbar
004 Bettendorf swing motion caboose
005 Barber-Bettendorf swing motion caboose
006 Buckeye spring-plank 50 ton cast steel
007 Double truss
008 coil-elliptic 50 ton
009 Barber lateral motion
010 ASF ride control 70-ton
011 5'0" wb Archbar
012 USRA Andrews
013 Barber S2 w/ spring plank

All are available, and all are priced at $3.50/pair. Shipping is $2.65/order.

If interested, please contact me off-list at <midcentury@sbcglobal.net>

I accept checks and money orders. For a small fee, I can also accept PayPal.
Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: Floquil Alternatives Paint Chart and the saga of 410M

Rhbale@...
 

Model Die Casting (MDC), the manufacturing end of Roundhouse Models, was
established just before the outbreak of World War II. After the war, MDC
owner Clarence Menteer became very aggressive in the HO market and released a
wide selection of pre-painted kits.
When Menteer realized he was using a sizable volume of paint specially
mixed in railroad colors, he decided to sell small bottles through his already
established channels of distribution. He branded the paint 410M. No one
seems to know where the name came from, but handling the paint quickly became
a distraction to MDCs regular business and the 410M paint line was sold to
Stewart Lundhall.
Throughout most of the 1950’s and 1960s, Stewart Lundhall Company, Central
Valley Models, and Cliff Line were neighbors in the San Fernando Valley
community of North Hollywood. They were all within a block or two of Saticoy
Street and Coldwater Canyon Avenue. Charlie Ulrich was on Van Owen, about a
mile east of the others. They shared ideas, tools, parts, and paint - 410M
paint.
Stewart Lundhall promoted 410M paint successfully until January 1963 when
the entire product line, including Plasticate a specialty product for
styrene models, was purchased by Charles Ulrich. In 1965 Ulrich repackaged 410M
paint in 15cc bottles which carried a suggested retail price of 25¢ each.
The line was further expanded in 1967 to 24 railroad colors. Ulrich trade
ads for rolling stock and vehicles invariably included a small logo or
reference to 410M paint.
During the second half of the 1960s, Floquil began to promote their brand
of paint heavily and greatly expanded the selection of railroad colors. The
competition was heating up and 410M sales, which had never been
particularly profitable for Ulrich, began to slide. Ulrich’s strength was in die
casting and after late 1968, trade ads for other Ulrich products no longer
included the 410M tag.
The following year, Charlie Ulrich and his wife “Muggs” decided it was
time to retire and began looking for a suitable buyer. A deal was struck with
Walthers and in 1970 the entire Ulrich line, including WIP, finished
goods, tools and fixtures, was shipped to Milwaukee, where it sat for many
months. The acquisition was announced in a press release issued to the trade
over the signature of Bruce Walthers. 410M paint was not mentioned.
Presumably, the line had simply faded away.

Richard Bale

In a message dated 6/11/2013 4:26:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
robsmom@pcisys.net writes:




The 410M was used by several of the kit producers in SoCal and was
always a perfect match for the Ulrich and Silver Steak kits I had on
hand for my Espee and PE cars. I was not a happy modeler at the time.
Tom VanWormer
Monument CO

William Keene wrote:

Larry and Group,

I do not remember much about 410M being discontinued. There was not much
said in the hobby press at the time. I think we just accepted that the line
was finished. Remember at this time there was not much we could do other
than gripe to ourselves. Today we can gripe to anyone that wants to take the
time to listen on the new social media outlets.

BTW... I believe that there is still a couple of bottles of this stuff in
the deep corner of my paint stash box. Those colors would be BCR and BCB.
Not sure if they are still good or not.

Cheers and Happy Modeling,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Jun 11, 2013, at 3:07_ PM, mrprksr <



_ (http://www.model-railroad-hobbyist.com/) _mrprksr@bellsouth.net_
(mailto:mrprksr@bellsouth.net) _> wrote:



Question for all you Oldtimers.....Was there this much Fuss when 410M
was discontinued????? Larry Mennie

________________________________
From: "_ (http://www.model-railroad-hobbyist.com/) _tgregmrtn@aol.com_
(mailto:tgregmrtn@aol.com) _" <_ (http://www.model-railroad-hobbyist.com/)
_tgregmrtn@aol.com_ (mailto:tgregmrtn@aol.com) _>
To: _ (http://www.model-railroad-hobbyist.com/) _STMFC@yahoogroups.com_
(mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com)
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 1:38 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Floquil Alternatives Paint Chart




Tony writes:

Do we know that all the Floquil and Polly S COLORS are going away, or
that the Floquil BRAND is going away? Model Master already carries some
paints with railroad names, and maybe they plan to rebrand some of the Floquil
ones. The Testor's announcement seems pretty coy about exactly what they
will do. There are persistent rumors of possible sale of the Floquil line,
also.

Tony and all,

I have had a few emails with TESTOR® customer service and here is a
snippet from one of the messages that seems to be pretty straight forward:

"Hello George,(<<<< TRUST Me this really set/pis$#& me off and there
were more emails)

Customer Service was instructed to pass along the formatted e-mail that
was provided for us when we were informed that Testors was down sizing
and our facility was closing along with over 100 jobs including Customer
Service. We will pass your e-mail onto our Sales/Marketing Dept for
review. We don't have any updated information to give to you except that they are
reviewing the line to see about keeping some of the colors. They are
still keeping the Testor Model Master, Aztek and models along with the
new Testor's CreateFX line that includes some of Floquils weathering and
scenery items.

Thank you for your dedication to the Floquil line and we hope to be able
to provide some additional information within the next few weeks.

Best Regards,

The Testor Corporation
Consumer Affairs Department"

I felt that if TESTOR® marketing and Big Daddy Rust-oleum/RPM was only
willing to send out a "canned" email then I was going to prod for more
information and let them know that there were some of us that were going to
stand for a "canned" email so I did and what came from it was a more vivid
answer on what their thinking was an how many people lost their jobs, that is
the truly sad part of this. IMHO the brand_ has a history and a following
and that spells good will in any business. But bean counters and under
thirty-five MBA types have little understanding of things such as good will and
brand, they just say, "yeah great idea boss..." just to keep their jobs, but
likely in the long run they will be ask to add their names to the bottom
of the list as well.
Initially when the word got out, yes, I believe the intent was to
dissolve the line entirely, but as the above mentions it is at least under review
and if we don't keep the issue of keeping the line alive at least in the
MODEL MASTER Line, then in a bit of time the line will quietly go away as
planned.
Greg Martin

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------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





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_ (http://www.model-railroad-hobbyist.com/)


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Re: Car destroyed in wrecks

Chet
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Recently I posted a message asking if the ARA/AAR kept records on
cars destroyed in wrecks and learned they did not. My memory is I was
working on some tables tracing car quantities in the various FGE/WFE/
BRE number series and wanted to better understand the numbers I was
seeing. Anyway, last night I was looking through some FGE Annual
Reports and found some figures for wreck losses for six years in the
1940's. There were over 14,000 cars in FGE's fleet the course of the
first three years.

1942 71 cars
1943 117 cars
1944 144 cars
1947 142 cars
1948 63 cars
1949 85 cars

I have records of the cars the Wabash lost each year as a result
of wrecks, fire, and failing in switching for the years 1945
through 1960. I only included revenue cars.

For the year 1948, 47 cars were destroyed, 43 in wrecks and four by
fire. Twenty five railroads in the U.S, and Mexico were involved including the home road. The largest number of cars destroyed on one railroad was eight on the PRR.

In 1953, forty cars were destroyed, 32 in wrecks, 4 in fires, and
four that failed in switching. Seventeen railroads in the U.S. and
Mexico were involved. That year the Wabash led with nine cars
destroyed on home rails.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


CB&Q FM-11/11A

Brian Carlson
 

Looking for a prototype photo of a CB&Q FM-11/11A showing the ends of the
car. Thanks.



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga, NY


Re: MKT 36' DS boxcar

Tom Palmer
 

Hi Gene,

Well I guess I have been misinformed. My notes state no AB
brakes on the boxcars and only placed on the caboose rebuilds. I stand
corrected. Thanks for the photo and the pilot model looks great.

Thanks again and best regards,

Tom Palmer

Stafford, Texas



From: Eugene Deimling [mailto:proto48@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 10:11 PM
To: remlapmot@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: MKT 36' DS boxcar



Tom

I saw your comment about the 74105-75597 boxcars and wondered if you had
seen this photo of 74919?

I have also attached a shot of my new kit pilot model for a 95000 series
boxcar.

--

Gene Deimling

El Dorado Hills, CA


Re: Wabash decals

Bill McCoy
 

The decals are gone. Thanks.

Bill McCoy

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Bill" <wpmccoy@...> wrote:

While cleaning up preparatory to moving I found a set of Wabash freight car decals I suspect from a Tichy panel side hopper I sold sometime back.

I'll mail them to anyone who wants them. First come first served.

Bill McCoy
Jax, FL (but not for long)


Re: Why don't we ... ?

Charles Happel
 

Twenty years of working on locomotives was one of the dirtiest jobs I ever had.  Had to keep clothes specially for work, and a separate washing machine to clean them.  Some lubricant and carbon stains never came out, even using gasoline to clean them.  Despite having a place to clean up, there was no getting carbon dust out of my hands other than waiting for it to wear off.

Chuck Happel



"I never said half the crap people said I did."

Albert Einstein

--- On Fri, 6/14/13, Al and Patricia Westerfield <westerfieldalfred@frontier.com> wrote:

From: Al and Patricia Westerfield <westerfieldalfred@frontier.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Why don't we ... ?
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, June 14, 2013, 2:28 PM
















 









Jim – My first job was in a dye factory. We worked in mechanic’s uniforms with no place to clean up at the end of the day. I would come home with blue face and hands. So you can prototypically do some of your figures as zombies. – Al Westerfield



From: Jim

Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 10:14 AM

To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [STMFC] Why don't we ... ?



Hi,



The thread about weathering our freight cars - and my

looking at a photo of a model caboose with a crew member

on the platform - got me to thinking (always a dangerous

thing!) ...



I had jobs back in the 50's. I never worked for a

railroad but several of my early jobs would be candidates

for the TV series "Dirty Jobs". Each day I would go to

work in clean clothes ... and come home covered in

dirt, grass stains (worked for a gardener), grime,

fish stains (worked in a salmon cannery), the seat of

my pants dirty (from where I sat on something to eat

my lunch) ... etc., etc., etc.



So why is it that most guys do not "weather" their

figures?



Yes, there should be areas of the clothes that should

be essentially "fresh from the last time they went thru

the wringer washer" ... but there should also be some

dirt on the knees, cuffs, arms, ... etc.

About the only figures who should be "relatively clean"

would be passenger train crews and maybe the engineer or

conductor of a freight.

- Jim



P.S. I tend not to model "the crew" ... I certainly don't

do so as often as they would be present on the

models. For me I have to balance the desire to have

a crew on/around a freight train ... with the fact

that because they are "static" they tend to not "feel

right/prototypical". That brakeman walking the

back on that GP-7 is great the first time I see him -

and then a few times later it starts to "grate on my

sense of reality" ... *SIGH!* ... it seems like I can

never achieve "perfection" ... whoops, that's one of

the BEST things about this hobby!































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Why don't we ... ?

 

Jim – My first job was in a dye factory. We worked in mechanic’s uniforms with no place to clean up at the end of the day. I would come home with blue face and hands. So you can prototypically do some of your figures as zombies. – Al Westerfield

From: Jim
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 10:14 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Why don't we ... ?


Hi,

The thread about weathering our freight cars - and my
looking at a photo of a model caboose with a crew member
on the platform - got me to thinking (always a dangerous
thing!) ...

I had jobs back in the 50's. I never worked for a
railroad but several of my early jobs would be candidates
for the TV series "Dirty Jobs". Each day I would go to
work in clean clothes ... and come home covered in
dirt, grass stains (worked for a gardener), grime,
fish stains (worked in a salmon cannery), the seat of
my pants dirty (from where I sat on something to eat
my lunch) ... etc., etc., etc.

So why is it that most guys do not "weather" their
figures?

Yes, there should be areas of the clothes that should
be essentially "fresh from the last time they went thru
the wringer washer" ... but there should also be some
dirt on the knees, cuffs, arms, ... etc.
About the only figures who should be "relatively clean"
would be passenger train crews and maybe the engineer or
conductor of a freight.
- Jim

P.S. I tend not to model "the crew" ... I certainly don't
do so as often as they would be present on the
models. For me I have to balance the desire to have
a crew on/around a freight train ... with the fact
that because they are "static" they tend to not "feel
right/prototypical". That brakeman walking the
back on that GP-7 is great the first time I see him -
and then a few times later it starts to "grate on my
sense of reality" ... *SIGH!* ... it seems like I can
never achieve "perfection" ... whoops, that's one of
the BEST things about this hobby!


Re: Weathering freight cars

Mikebrock
 

Jim Betz says:

"Go back and look at that pic of the train in Colorado
in 1958"

I beg your pardon. Colorado? Hmmmpf. Wyoming.

Bill Schneider says:

"Man. there really IS nothing at Bruceford.. errr.. Buford!"

Nothing there? Why...just look at those signals. And the...uh...trees.

I might comment that, while in the distance one can see a locomotive, I would speculate that the smoke is being blown over the engine by wind. Surely the train is motionless...given that it is at Buford.

Mike Brock


Re: Why don't we ... ?

Armand Premo
 

Fully agree with you Jim as long as it is subtle <VBG>The picture of those On3 figures in RMC are superior.Too bad they are not available in HO.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 11:16 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Why don't we ... ?




SORRY - mea culpa ... I was posting online and forgot
to add my full name to the signature. Old
habits die hard!
- Jim Betz


Re: Why don't we ... ?

Jim Betz
 

SORRY - mea culpa ... I was posting online and forgot
to add my full name to the signature. Old
habits die hard!
- Jim Betz


Why don't we ... ?

Jim Betz
 

Hi,

The thread about weathering our freight cars - and my
looking at a photo of a model caboose with a crew member
on the platform - got me to thinking (always a dangerous
thing!) ...

I had jobs back in the 50's. I never worked for a
railroad but several of my early jobs would be candidates
for the TV series "Dirty Jobs". Each day I would go to
work in clean clothes ... and come home covered in
dirt, grass stains (worked for a gardener), grime,
fish stains (worked in a salmon cannery), the seat of
my pants dirty (from where I sat on something to eat
my lunch) ... etc., etc., etc.

So why is it that most guys do not "weather" their
figures?

Yes, there should be areas of the clothes that should
be essentially "fresh from the last time they went thru
the wringer washer" ... but there should also be some
dirt on the knees, cuffs, arms, ... etc.
About the only figures who should be "relatively clean"
would be passenger train crews and maybe the engineer or
conductor of a freight.
- Jim

P.S. I tend not to model "the crew" ... I certainly don't
do so as often as they would be present on the
models. For me I have to balance the desire to have
a crew on/around a freight train ... with the fact
that because they are "static" they tend to not "feel
right/prototypical". That brakeman walking the
back on that GP-7 is great the first time I see him -
and then a few times later it starts to "grate on my
sense of reality" ... *SIGH!* ... it seems like I can
never achieve "perfection" ... whoops, that's one of
the BEST things about this hobby!


Wabash decals

Bill McCoy
 

While cleaning up preparatory to moving I found a set of Wabash freight car decals I suspect from a Tichy panel side hopper I sold sometime back.

I'll mail them to anyone who wants them. First come first served.

Bill McCoy
Jax, FL (but not for long)


Re: Weathering freight cars

Jim Betz
 

Hi,

I use acrylic washes as my "primary technique" for weathering.

And I mix the washes for each weathering sessions - and vary
the mix of black, white, red oxide, brown oxide each time.
In addition, I vary the amount of wash applied to the individual
cars in any one weathering session. And some times I am
doing only 1 car and other times as many as 5 or more.
Finally - I often vary the mix of the colors in the wash(es)
during the session ... usually, but not always, working from
the darker shades to lighter ones later in the session.

I also almost always do some "dry brush weathering" that
involves applying weathering colors to the "details" such as
the fans/grills on a diesel, the trucks, the parts of the model
that are metal on the prototype.

And, of course, the under body, ends, and roofs are treated
differently than the sides, etc., etc., etc.

****

My objectives/goals for weathering are pretty simple to
list:

1) Every piece I do "isn't finished" until it gets some level
of weathering. That varies from "just" dull coat to a
level that is referred to as "heavy weathering". (Yes,
that "every" includes locos and passenger cars and
cabeese and plastic and brass!)

2) When you look at "a yard/train comprised of all of my
cars" if you

a) take a quick glance you would say "they all look
the same" and "they are all weathered" (especially
if they are STMFCs)

b) take the time to look/study more you would say
"yes, there are fairly large differences in the
amount of weathering from car to car" ... and
you would be able to identify the individual cars
as having been in some particular service or
part of the country ... where appropriate.

c) in depth study of the cars would reveal different
techniques and/or fairly large differences in the
way a particular technique has been applied.

Those are my goals. I'm sure many of you share them.
I'm also certain that many of you have different goals.
And we are "all correct"!
- Jim

P.S. Go back and look at that pic of the train in Colorado
in 1958 ... the first glance says "the cars in this train
are all weathered" ... then with just a bit more study
you see that some are actually fairly new and some
make it even hard to tell what road they are ... and all
the cars near the power (around the curve) look
"all the same" and other than knowing which are
box cars and which aren't there is very little other
intel available.


Re: Weathering freight cars

Charlie Duckworth
 

Here's a example from Jack Delano of the differences in the weathering on eastern RR cars vs western RRs in the 1940's.

http://chnm.gmu.edu/courses/magic/westover/images/provisolg.jpg

Charlie Duckworth

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

On Jun 13, 2013, at 12:01 PM, Craig Zeni <clzeni@...> wrote:


I'd like to offer this photo from September 1958 in Buford, Wyoming. Some very weathered cars, a couple not so much. My favorite is the NS Rwy car in front of the ACL car...

http://preview.tinyurl.com/clean-dirty-1958

Craig, that's a very instructive photo provided you remember that, by 9/58, steam locomotives were largely gone from the North American railroads. A decade earlier, those cars would have been equally weathered to various degrees (as the photo clearly shows) but a whole lot dirtier.

Richard Hendrickson





Re: DL&W double sheathed boxcar roof question

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 13, 2013, at 6:20 PM, "Bud Rindfleisch" <BlackDiamondRR@gmail.com> wrote:
Gents,
Asking for a friend who is not on line, what type of roof was used on the DL&W double sheathed boxcars? Was there more than one type? Any good photos?
Bud, I assume you're referring to the 40' ARA-desing cars, They were built with Hutchins Dry Lading roofs, but those were replaced in the 1940s with Murphy rectangular panel roofs. I have photos of cars with both the original and replacement roofs, but they only show the roof edges.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Weathering freight cars

Craig Zeni
 

On Jun 13, 2013, at 9:47 PM, STMFC@yahoogroups.com wrote:___________
3.7. Re: Weathering freight cars
Posted by: "Richard Hendrickson" rhendrickson@opendoor.com n1605g
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:46 pm ((PDT))

On Jun 13, 2013, at 12:01 PM, Craig Zeni <clzeni@gmail.com> wrote:


I'd like to offer this photo from September 1958 in Buford, Wyoming. Some very weathered cars, a couple not so much. My favorite is the NS Rwy car in front of the ACL car...

http://preview.tinyurl.com/clean-dirty-1958

Craig, that's a very instructive photo provided you remember that, by 9/58, steam locomotives were largely gone from the North American railroads. A decade earlier, those cars would have been equally weathered to various degrees (as the photo clearly shows) but a whole lot dirtier.
Indeed - I picked that up from your clinics at Cocoa :) though I'm still using Tony's acrylic washes for weathering. I'm modeling circa 1950 so there won't be many cars as clean as that ACL or NS car and more like the C&O car and NKP car...

CZ
Grievous Error NC :) :)


Re: MKT 36' DS boxcar

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 13, 2013, at 7:44 AM, gary laakso <vasa0vasa@earthlink.net> wrote:

There is a picture of one of these cars in a Santa Fe train in 1940 in Santa Fe Heritage Vol at page 166. It has Murphy ends and a fish belly. A telephone line covers the number. What were the numbers of these cars? It appears that the car is in MKT yellow with the side repaint for a reweigh a very, very light color. Was this class painted yellow?
Gary, I'm sending you off-list an excellent photo of one of these cars from the Arnold Menke collection.

Richard Hendrickson

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