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Re: 1923 NYC Box Cars

MDelvec952
 

Yes, you're right, Richard, all were delivered with Youngstown doors. I do have pictures of cars with five- and six-panel Superior doors, thought he six-panel doors are far more common.

Thanks ....Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wed, Jul 10, 2013 3:53 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] 1923 NYC Box Cars




On Jul 10, 2013, at 12:30 PM, MDelvec952@... wrote:

I have good photos of these cars, ends, sides, roof and even the undersides. Lackawanna got 'em with both Youngstown and Superior doors and the cars wore all three DL&W paint schemes. They were not common after the 1960 Erie merger, and no pictures have surfaced of any painted for EL.
One correction, Mike. All the cars were delivered with Youngstown corrugated doors. The Superior 6 panel doors didn't begin to replace the corrugated doors until the mid-1950s.

Richard Hendrickson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Borden " Butter Dish" Chemical Tank cars White Only?

James Fellows
 

You may want to try posting to the two milk train groups on yahoo. Neither
are very active, but once something is posted the reposes are generally
pretty quick.



Jim Fellows



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
erict1361
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 8:55 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Borden " Butter Dish" Chemical Tank cars White Only?







Mal Houck Wrote:

To my knowledge, they were at one time painted with a orange tank body on a
black frame.

Mal,

Thanks for the Response, but the Orange or Red cars with Yellow lettering
were for Milk Service.

All,
I did more research and did find a PSC Brass model on line painted Silver
with a Black Frame in Chemical Division lettering. My concern is that this
model has No End fins. As far as I know only the Top Fin part was removed
from most all of the cars for the WW II war effort. I was only able to find
Two Chemical Division Photos On Line. One in All White and One All Blue. So
I am Not sure if this Silver car is correct or not? I found another
interesting find, Some early car photos show valve piping and valves on both
ends of the car, later photos so it only on the "B" end ? I assume these
valves controled the release of the products from the tanks, not pressure
since milk should not have expansion pressure. I do know that the First
series cars had the Brake Wheel housing separate from the Tank and later
builds had it mounted on the tank. Looks like Ureco, Ajax and Miner brakes
were used.

Eric Thur


To my knowledge, they were at one time painted with a orange tank body on
a
black frame.

Mal Houck
Re: Borden " Butter Dish" Chemical Tank cars White Only?

erict1361 <erict1361@...>
 

Mal Houck Wrote:

To my knowledge, they were at one time painted with a orange tank body on a black frame.

Mal,

Thanks for the Response, but the Orange or Red cars with Yellow lettering were for Milk Service.

All,
I did more research and did find a PSC Brass model on line painted Silver with a Black Frame in Chemical Division lettering. My concern is that this model has No End fins. As far as I know only the Top Fin part was removed from most all of the cars for the WW II war effort. I was only able to find Two Chemical Division Photos On Line. One in All White and One All Blue. So I am Not sure if this Silver car is correct or not? I found another interesting find, Some early car photos show valve piping and valves on both ends of the car, later photos so it only on the "B" end ? I assume these valves controled the release of the products from the tanks, not pressure since milk should not have expansion pressure. I do know that the First series cars had the Brake Wheel housing separate from the Tank and later builds had it mounted on the tank. Looks like Ureco, Ajax and Miner brakes were used.


Eric Thur


To my knowledge, they were at one time painted with a orange tank body on a
black frame.

Mal Houck

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Georgia & Florida Hoppers

Marty McGuirk
 

Thanks to all for the replies.

Marty

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Marty

From those specs the cars sound like 4-bay offset-side ARA hoppers,
originally 70 ton cars.

Tim O'Connor



"I stumbled across a listing for an ORER for my prototype that shows some hopper cars that were previously unknown to me. There doesn't seem to be any readily available photos of these units, so I'm trying to figure out as much as possible from the information given.

It lists the cars as being 40'5" inside length, 50 ton, 2755 cubic foot capacity open hoppers. But that is the only information given. These were apparently second hand cars from some source.

Thanks in advance,
Marty
Re: Borden " Butter Dish" Chemical Tank cars White Only?

Malcolm H. Houck
 

Would Anyone know if any of the "Butter Dish" Milk Tank cars that Borden
transferred from Milk hauling to Elmer's Glue hauling, "Chemical
Division"Would Anyone know if any of the "Butter Dish" Milk Tank cars that Bord

To my knowledge, they were at one time painted with a orange tank body on a
black frame.

Mal Houck
Re: Blue "Tank Car Connected" Sign

mrprksr <mrprksr@...>
 

Blue Flag....Rule 26 on most railroads doesn't have much bearing on the Canadian incident.....Blue Flags protect  workers working on or about the cars that are protected by a blue flag....even engines being serviced on a fuel rack are normally blue flagged.....You cannot foul or block a blue flagged track and cannot couple to the cars beyond the blue flag.....only person who put up the blue flag or his foreman can take it back down....Often said that a Blue Flag is the most restricted signal.....You can get permission to pass a Red stop signal but not a Blue Flag......Larry



________________________________
From: Tony Thompson <tony@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Blue "Tank Car Connected" Sign



 
Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Somewhere I've seen a photo of a blue sign attached to a tank car unloading track reading "Stop - Tank Car Connected" or something to that effect. But now, of course, I can't recall where. Can anyone on the list direct me to such a photo?
One is in the email to you. Tony

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Blue "Tank Car Connected" Sign

Tony Thompson
 

John Sykes wrote:
That is one type of "Blue Flag" protection. Take a look here:
http://www.aldonco.com
-or-
http://www.aldonco.com/products.aspx?sec=2&cat=114&subid=20
Lots of fun toys for the 12" to the foot railroad enthusiast.
Might be worth pointing out that these images are of OSHA-standard signs, long postdating this list. Before 1960, signs were different -- and not standard.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Re: Blue "Tank Car Connected" Sign

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 10, 2013, at 4:35 PM, John Sykes <John.Sykes@...> wrote:

Richard:

That is one type of "Blue Flag" protection. Take a look here:

http://www.aldonco.com

-or-

http://www.aldonco.com/products.aspx?sec=2&cat=114&subid=20

Thanks, John.

Richard
Re: Blue "Tank Car Connected" Sign

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 10, 2013, at 4:35 PM, "John Sykes" <John.Sykes@...> wrote:

Richard:

That is one type of "Blue Flag" protection. Take a look here:

http://www.aldonco.com

-or-

http://www.aldonco.com/products.aspx?sec=2&cat=114&subid=20
Thanks, John.

Richard Hendrickson
Re: Blue "Tank Car Connected" Sign

John
 

Richard:

That is one type of "Blue Flag" protection. Take a look here:

http://www.aldonco.com

-or-

http://www.aldonco.com/products.aspx?sec=2&cat=114&subid=20

Lots of fun toys for the 12" to the foot railroad enthusiast.

<VBG> John

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

Somewhere I've seen a photo of a blue sign attached to a tank car unloading track reading "Stop - Tank Car Connected" or something to that effect. But now, of course, I can't recall where. Can anyone on the list direct me to such a photo?

Richard Hendrickson
Re: Blue "Tank Car Connected" Sign

Tony Thompson
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Somewhere I've seen a photo of a blue sign attached to a tank car unloading track reading "Stop - Tank Car Connected" or something to that effect. But now, of course, I can't recall where. Can anyone on the list direct me to such a photo?
One is in the email to you. Tony
Blue "Tank Car Connected" Sign

Richard Hendrickson
 

Somewhere I've seen a photo of a blue sign attached to a tank car unloading track reading "Stop - Tank Car Connected" or something to that effect. But now, of course, I can't recall where. Can anyone on the list direct me to such a photo?

Richard Hendrickson
Re: Scullin trucks in HO

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 10, 2013, at 1:42 PM, Thomas Olsen <tmolsen@...> wrote:

Rich,

The next truck that Brian Leppert of Tahoe Model Works is workin g on
will be a Scullin Truck. At present a delivery date has not been
announced as Brian has just released the Barber S2 truck with solid
bearings and a spring plank.

So...finish the car and put another truck on temporarily until Brian
releases his Scullin truck!
At least a few others on the list know this, Tom, but Brian may not want his intentions made public yet. In any case we don't know which of the many Scullin freight car trucks he's tooling, and Scullin made a lot of different trucks. So there's no way to know whether the forthcoming Tahoe truck will be what Rich needs, especially since Rich has no legible photos, only MR's notoriously untrustworthy drawing, to work from.

Richard Hendrickson
Re: Dreadnaught 4-4 ends on NYC System cars

Eric Lombard
 

Hi Richard,
I would really like to see an end shot of a DL&W 47000-47999 car when you
have time. I gather from an earlier post that you are quite busy now - any
time when life is a little less full would be fine. Do you know if such a
photo has ever been published? Thanks in advance,
Eric


On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 9:07 PM, Richard Hendrickson <
rhendrickson@...> wrote:

**



On Jul 9, 2013, at 3:31 PM, r_eric_lombard <elombard@...> wrote:

I have copies of two photos showing the A- and B-ends of P&E 3609 a NYC
System car built with the Dreadnaught 4-4 ends with right angle corners as
on the DL&W 47000-47999 cars. Send me an email and I will send them to you.
I'[m not sure that posting them runs afoul of any copyright or rules of the
site.
Eric (and others who may be confused by the photos your posting), I have
photos of P&E cars with Drednaught ends, including P&E 3609, and those
dreadnaught ends are NOT the same as the ends on the Lackawanna cars.

Richard Hendrickson


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Scullin trucks in HO

Thomas Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

Rich,

The next truck that Brian Leppert of Tahoe Model Works is workin g on
will be a Scullin Truck. At present a delivery date has not been
announced as Brian has just released the Barber S2 truck with solid
bearings and a spring plank.

So...finish the car and put another truck on temporarily until Brian
releases his Scullin truck!

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@...

On 7/8/13, Tom Birkett <tnbirke@...> wrote:
Richard



For what it is worth, I believe that Scullin was owned by General American
Transportation at one time. Phillips had many GATX built cars with Scullin
truck components built under various license arrangements.



Of no modeling interest many of the early "Jumbo" pressure cars for LP Gas,
starting in 1960, had locking center pins like passenger cars. These cars,
PSPX 30001-30100 were 100 ton plain bearing, 33" wheels multi-wear wheels
on
5'-10" wheel base if I remember correctly.

Regards

Tom Birkett, Bartlesville, OK



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Richard Hendrickson
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 1:44 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Scullin trucks in HO





On Jul 7, 2013, at 10:55 PM, richtownsend@...
<mailto:richtownsend%40netscape.net> wrote:
I'm building a 1958 box car that originally (and maybe always) was
equipped with Scullin trucks. It's a 40-foot, 50-ton, plug-door box car. I
don't find HO Scullins trucks anywhere that I look and I am wondering if
anyone can suggest a truck that is close in appearance to Scullins.
Rich, Scullin produced trucks of many different designs, mostly under
license. So there were various Scullin ARA trucks with spring planks, AAR
self-aligning spring-plankless trucks, Barber stabilized and ASF A-3
trucks,
etc. As far as I know, the only plain journal trucks that Scullin made to
exclusively Scullin designs were the Type CC and the Type LV, both shown in
the 1953 Car Builders Cylcopedia. Both had unique arrangements of
spring-loiaded snubbers between side frames and bolster, neither proved to
be very popular, and neither have ever been reproduced in HO scale. If you
can send me a photo which clearly shows the trucks under the car that's the
prototype for your model, I can probably identify them and suggest the
closest HO scale trucks to represent them.

Richard Hendrickson
Re: Georgia & Florida Hoppers

Tim O'Connor
 

Marty

From those specs the cars sound like 4-bay offset-side ARA hoppers,
originally 70 ton cars.

Tim O'Connor

"I stumbled across a listing for an ORER for my prototype that shows some hopper cars that were previously unknown to me. There doesn't seem to be any readily available photos of these units, so I'm trying to figure out as much as possible from the information given.

It lists the cars as being 40'5" inside length, 50 ton, 2755 cubic foot capacity open hoppers. But that is the only information given. These were apparently second hand cars from some source.

Thanks in advance,
Marty
Re: 1923 NYC Box Cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 10, 2013, at 12:30 PM, MDelvec952@... wrote:

I have good photos of these cars, ends, sides, roof and even the undersides. Lackawanna got 'em with both Youngstown and Superior doors and the cars wore all three DL&W paint schemes. They were not common after the 1960 Erie merger, and no pictures have surfaced of any painted for EL.
One correction, Mike. All the cars were delivered with Youngstown corrugated doors. The Superior 6 panel doors didn't begin to replace the corrugated doors until the mid-1950s.


Richard Hendrickson
Re: 1923 NYC Box Cars

MDelvec952
 

I have good photos of these cars, ends, sides, roof and even the undersides. Lackawanna got 'em with both Youngstown and Superior doors and the cars wore all three DL&W paint schemes. They were not common after the 1960 Erie merger, and no pictures have surfaced of any painted for EL.

The differences between the DL&W and NYC cars may keep the project just too far away; there were slight differences in the carbody side rivet pattern around the bolster, there were differences in crossbearer orientation, roofs were replaced in time, etc. But these were stalwarts of the DL&W fleet, showing up in pictures all over the country.

I'd be happy to help get these cars produced ....Mike Del Vecchio

-----Original Message-----
From: Don <riverman_vt@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:26 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: 1923 NYC Box Cars






--- In STMFC@..., "Charlie Vlk" <cvlk@...> wrote:

If anyone can come up with side and end views of the Lackawanna car, > if it is indeed a reasonably close duplicate of the NYC cars, and
send scans to me I'll see if BLI wants to add them to the pending new > production of their cars.
I'm already engaged in that process, Charlie, and do not need the issues confused. It is why the question was raised in the first place.

My thanks to Richard and others who have responded with assistance.

Cordially, Don Valentine
Re: Georgia & Florida Hoppers

Tony Thompson
 

Marty McGuirk wrote:

Finally found a paper copy of an ORER that lists the inside width as 10' while the outside width is 10'2". So that would seem to indicate that they were definitely offset side cars."
Not necessarily. Grab irons and other hardware on the outside of the car can account for such dimensions. Morevoer, the rib depth on a conventional ribbed hopper would probably just about account for the stated inside and outside width.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Georgia & Florida Hoppers

Marty McGuirk
 

For a friend who's looking for some details - preferably photos - of Ga&Fla hoppers.



"I stumbled across a listing for an ORER for my prototype that shows some hopper cars that were previously unknown to me. There doesn't seem to be any readily available photos of these units, so I'm trying to figure out as much as possible from the information given.

It lists the cars as being 40'5" inside length, 50 ton, 2755 cubic foot capacity open hoppers. But that is the only information given. These were apparently second hand cars from some source.



Finally found a paper copy of an ORER that lists the inside width as 10' while the outside width is 10'2". So that would seem to indicate that they were definitely offset side cars. And with that kind of cubic footage and only being rated for 50 tons, it would seem that these must've been older cars with lower capacity trucks."



Any thoughts - or better yet - photos I can share with him.



I'm not even sure what the ORER is showing as a number series.



Thanks in advance,

Marty
77761 - 77780 of 194713