Date   

Re: Buy or Improve?

Armand Premo
 

Any reaction to the recent trend towards undecorated cars? Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: RUTLANDRS@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Buy or Improve?



Scott,
"Can't justify the cost of resin", but has a lot of Kadee PS-1s,
hmmmmmmm.
Is this, I don't want to take the time or something else.
You must be pretty lucky to get your cabooses as close as possible
economically.
We all have some "places" that we won't/can't go, but this list
certainly helps us get closer.
Chuck Hladik


In a message dated 7/14/2013 2:23:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, shha
ycock@... writes:

Kieth,

For me it depends...

I really want the signature components of my trains- engines and cabooses-
to be as prototypically correct as I can make them. Freight cars I don't
worry about as much. I certainly want to get them as close as my wallet and
skills will allow, but I cannot justify the cost of dozens of resin kits. I
generally use Branchline, Red Caboose, Intermountain, and Accurail KITS
for my rolling stock. With some aftermarket and scratchbuilt parts, a lot of
these models can be made into close models of prototype cars. I do have a
lot of Kadee PS-1s as I model the S.E. and these cars were used by a lot of
the areas regional roads.

An example is the SAL's turtleback boxcars. I will need several of them. I
built a master to resin cast a more correct end that I can graft onto the
Bowser PRR Round roof cars and get closer to the SAL cars. I know there are
other differences, but For me the end is the most visible spotting feature
of these cars. Replacing/ adding/ subtracting side sills and sill tabs is
another simple fix on a lot of cars.

Another consideration is decal availability.

For me, this is still a builders hobby, and I prefer to build vs. buy if
possible.

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm ent
----- Original Message -----

All-
Good evening. I have been a member of this group for but a little while
compared to the time many of you have spent in the pursuit of STMFC
knowledge. The studying of references and historical documents to discover how
things were really done. All for the purpose of improving the models that are
available to us. Yet, I get the impression that there are some among us who
desire the perfect kit with all the correct details and decals. All one need
do is assemble, paint and decal this kit to be happy.
So, I ask you all, would you rather buy the perfect kit or improve a
lesser kit through research and the acquisition of knowledge? Do we limit
ourselves to the F&Cs and Westerfields of this world or do we take the Accurails
and Bowsers and improve them, making them solid running rolling stock with
as accurate details as we can?
This may be blasphemy for some but I offer these thoughts as a 50
something who looks forward to many years of modeling pleasure.
Thank you for your patience,
Keith Kempster
Jacksonville, FL

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Sinclair billboard tank cars

Richard Townsend
 

I recently acquired a single dome tank car kit by Thomas that is lettered for Sinclair with the large billboard lettering. It is a silver car with the lettering in black. But all the billboard lettered sinclair tank cars that I have seen were black with silver (aluminum) lettering. Were any prototype Sinclair cars lettered black over silver? I think Varney also decorated some tank cars that way in the old days.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Blue "Tank Car Connected" Sign

Tony Thompson
 

John Sykes wrote:
Richard & Tony:
What was the vintage of that photo? Reason I ask is I thought the specific messages were a later addition (e.g., post-OSHA as previously pointed out). Would you have seen this text prior to 1960? Just trying to find out (OSHA codified many already common practices, so could be either way).
John, I will send you the photo.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Buy or Improve?

Scott H. Haycock
 

Chuck Hladik wrote:
"Can't justify the cost of resin", but has a lot of Kadee PS-1s,
hmmmmmmm.
Is this, I don't want to take the time or something else.
You must be pretty lucky to get your cabooses as close as possible
economically.
We all have some "places" that we won't/can't go, but this list
certainly helps us get closer.


Chuck,


I guess I wasn't clear. The PS-1s were under $30.00 each painted and lettered for roads that no one makes decals for. And these are quite accurate and very well detailed. Resin kits cost $50.00+ these days. Plus the time to build them. If I need say, 10 of a specific car, I can save a lot of money by upgrading a plastic kit. Multiply that by 100-150 cars, we're talking of savings in the thousands.


My cabooses are resin because no plastic cars come close. Of the 4 types I need, 2 are available in resin. I will have to scratchbuild masters and resin cast the rest.


I agree about the value of this list. In many cases, I have learned just what needs to be done to get a mass produced $15.00 kit closer to a prototype car.


As someone who is also building a model railroad, I have to be picky about how I spend my limited hobby budget, and my time as well. I love resin kits, I just can't afford a lot of them!


Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm ent


Re: Blue "Tank Car Connected" Sign

John
 

Richard & Tony:

What was the vintage of that photo? Reason I ask is I thought the specific messages were a later addition (e.g., post-OSHA as previously pointed out). Would you have seen this text prior to 1960? Just trying to find out (OSHA codified many already common practices, so could be either way).

By the way, I thought that FRA was responsible for the RR safety rules & regulations, but I think a decision was made sometime not too long ago, that OSHA would be the responsible agency for off-RR property rules, e.g., industrial tracks and sidings. Does anybody know the history?

-- John

P.S. I have two pair of wheel chocks with attached signs, a derail, blue flag and a RR-quality switch lock in storage for my job. I sometimes play with 12" to-the-foot scale RR cars. Which reminds me, I have got to get re-qualified on the FEC.

--- In STMFC@..., Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Somewhere I've seen a photo of a blue sign attached to a tank car unloading track reading "Stop - Tank Car Connected" or something to that effect. But now, of course, I can't recall where. Can anyone on the list direct me to such a photo?
One is in the email to you. Tony

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: modeling open ice hatches

John
 

Tony:

When I do that, I use a brush on purpose to leave faint brush strokes on the plugs (using Floquil Concrete color paint). Reason being, the plugs were covered in canvas, and the brush strokes simulate that texture. I've been doing what you describe for 20 years and never thought to write it up (Doh! on my part). Good job.

-- John

--- In STMFC@..., Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:

I have posted a discussion of ways to model open ice hatches on refrigerator cars, for example for ventilation service, to my blog, and showed photos of several models prepared in different ways. If you're interested, it is at this link:

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2013/07/modeling-open-ice-hatches-on.html

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Sunshine Gifts or Mini-Kits

Rob Adams
 

Hi Greg;

I'd be interested in the CB&Q F-11 if it is still available. Please let
me know what you'd like to have for it.

Thanks in advance.

Kind regards,

Rob Adams
Wellman, IA

On 7/14/13 12:56 PM, tgregmrtn@... wrote:

Guys,

I have a couple of the Mini Kits I will never finish as they are just
not a
good fit for me.
1. CB&Q FM-11, 11A Flatcar
2. MP Raised Roof Three Bay Limestone Hopper
I would gladly sell them at a fair price.

Greg Martin

Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean




Re: Buy or Improve?

Charles Hladik
 

Scott,
"Can't justify the cost of resin", but has a lot of Kadee PS-1s,
hmmmmmmm.
Is this, I don't want to take the time or something else.
You must be pretty lucky to get your cabooses as close as possible
economically.
We all have some "places" that we won't/can't go, but this list
certainly helps us get closer.
Chuck Hladik

In a message dated 7/14/2013 2:23:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, shha
ycock@... writes:




Kieth,

For me it depends...

I really want the signature components of my trains- engines and cabooses-
to be as prototypically correct as I can make them. Freight cars I don't
worry about as much. I certainly want to get them as close as my wallet and
skills will allow, but I cannot justify the cost of dozens of resin kits. I
generally use Branchline, Red Caboose, Intermountain, and Accurail KITS
for my rolling stock. With some aftermarket and scratchbuilt parts, a lot of
these models can be made into close models of prototype cars. I do have a
lot of Kadee PS-1s as I model the S.E. and these cars were used by a lot of
the areas regional roads.

An example is the SAL's turtleback boxcars. I will need several of them. I
built a master to resin cast a more correct end that I can graft onto the
Bowser PRR Round roof cars and get closer to the SAL cars. I know there are
other differences, but For me the end is the most visible spotting feature
of these cars. Replacing/ adding/ subtracting side sills and sill tabs is
another simple fix on a lot of cars.

Another consideration is decal availability.

For me, this is still a builders hobby, and I prefer to build vs. buy if
possible.

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm ent
----- Original Message -----

All-
Good evening. I have been a member of this group for but a little while
compared to the time many of you have spent in the pursuit of STMFC
knowledge. The studying of references and historical documents to discover how
things were really done. All for the purpose of improving the models that are
available to us. Yet, I get the impression that there are some among us who
desire the perfect kit with all the correct details and decals. All one need
do is assemble, paint and decal this kit to be happy.
So, I ask you all, would you rather buy the perfect kit or improve a
lesser kit through research and the acquisition of knowledge? Do we limit
ourselves to the F&Cs and Westerfields of this world or do we take the Accurails
and Bowsers and improve them, making them solid running rolling stock with
as accurate details as we can?
This may be blasphemy for some but I offer these thoughts as a 50
something who looks forward to many years of modeling pleasure.
Thank you for your patience,
Keith Kempster
Jacksonville, FL

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Sunshine - Unavailable

Jim Hayes
 

I've flagged another dozen kits as "UNAVAILABLE 2013". My thanks to David
Sieber and Ron Merrick for the updates.

I have fallen behind on flagging kits as UNAVAILABLE on the Flyers by RR
page so always check the All Time List for availability.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
sunshinekits.com


Re: Model kit hierarchy and heritage

Tom Madden
 

Gene Green wrote:

Al,
Are "modelers" and "experts" mutually exclusive categories? VBG
Gene, I know you asked this in jest, and I'm not Al, but it's worth discussing. No, they are certainly not exclusive, but they are different. An expert is a resource; a [good] modeler is an inspiration. If I want information on trucks, I'll look to Richard. If I want information on brakes, I'll look to you. But I may not look to either of you for inspiration to improve my modeling.

Certainly there are exceptionally skilled modelers who also experts in one or more areas of the hobby. (Al W. and Jack B. come instantly to mind.) But possessing exceptional modeling skills doesn't automatically make you an expert. Interest, curiosity and a willingness to study a subject in depth, not modeling skills, are what make the Richard's, Tony's, Al's, Jack's, Dennis' and <your name here> so valuable and respected.

Tom Madden


Re: Sunshine Gifts or Mini-Kits

Gene Semon <mopac1@...>
 

Thanks for the replies to my question on these items.

Gene Semon


Re: Industry Magazines of the 1950s?

Nolan Hinshaw
 

On Jul 13, 2013, at 8:25 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:


Nope. RAGE is standard 8.5 x 11.
Railway Gazette seems to have been folio-sized.
--
"Not only is it not right, it's not even wrong!"
From Wolfgang Pauli, perpetrator of the Pauli Exclusion Principle


modeling open ice hatches

Tony Thompson
 

I have posted a discussion of ways to model open ice hatches on refrigerator cars, for example for ventilation service, to my blog, and showed photos of several models prepared in different ways. If you're interested, it is at this link:

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2013/07/modeling-open-ice-hatches-on.html

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Buy or Improve?

Scott H. Haycock
 

Kieth,


For me it depends...


I really want the signature components of my trains- engines and cabooses- to be as prototypically correct as I can make them. Freight cars I don't worry about as much. I certainly want to get them as close as my wallet and skills will allow, but I cannot justify the cost of dozens of resin kits. I generally use Branchline, Red Caboose, Intermountain, and Accurail KITS for my rolling stock. With some aftermarket and scratchbuilt parts, a lot of these models can be made into close models of prototype cars. I do have a lot of Kadee PS-1s as I model the S.E. and these cars were used by a lot of the areas regional roads.


An example is the SAL's turtleback boxcars. I will need several of them. I built a master to resin cast a more correct end that I can graft onto the Bowser PRR Round roof cars and get closer to the SAL cars. I know there are other differences, but For me the end is the most visible spotting feature of these cars. Replacing/ adding/ subtracting side sills and sill tabs is another simple fix on a lot of cars.


Another consideration is decal availability.


For me, this is still a builders hobby, and I prefer to build vs. buy if possible.


Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm ent

----- Original Message -----





All-
Good evening. I have been a member of this group for but a little while compared to the time many of you have spent in the pursuit of STMFC knowledge. The studying of references and historical documents to discover how things were really done. All for the purpose of improving the models that are available to us. Yet, I get the impression that there are some among us who desire the perfect kit with all the correct details and decals. All one need do is assemble, paint and decal this kit to be happy.
So, I ask you all, would you rather buy the perfect kit or improve a lesser kit through research and the acquisition of knowledge? Do we limit ourselves to the F&Cs and Westerfields of this world or do we take the Accurails and Bowsers and improve them, making them solid running rolling stock with as accurate details as we can?
This may be blasphemy for some but I offer these thoughts as a 50 something who looks forward to many years of modeling pleasure.
Thank you for your patience,
Keith Kempster
Jacksonville, FL




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Sunshine Gifts or Mini-Kits

Greg Martin
 

Guys,

I have a couple of the Mini Kits I will never finish as they are just not a
good fit for me.
1. CB&Q FM-11, 11A Flatcar
2. MP Raised Roof Three Bay Limestone Hopper
I would gladly sell them at a fair price.

Greg Martin

Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean


Ancient Kadee coupler centering springs wanted

Bud Rindfleisch
 

Any of you been in HO long enough to remember or even have used the earliest Kadee couplers with the straight uncoupling pin? Theses couplers used a small, tightly coiled centering spring at the rear/center of the shank.
I have a need for several of these springs, or as many as I can get. I realize there are spring manufacturers out there who could supply similar, but I was hoping some of you would have a surplus laying around as these are the right length for my needs.
Thanks for any help.
Bud Rindfleisch


Re: Sunshine Gifts or Mini-Kits

O Fenton Wells
 

I remember the C of G half door and some other things to make the C of G
door and a half 40 ft box, when I went to Naperville one year.
fenton wells

On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 10:34 AM, Jim Hayes <jimhayes97225@...> wrote:

**


Mini-kits were never listed in Sunshine's price lists and were never
assigned kit #s by Sunshine. I assigned the numbers to help me keep things
straight in my All Time list. Mini-kits were sold or gifted only at shows
Sunshine attended. Martin produced a bunch of the alternate standard
mini-kits over several years just by including different decals. The C&I &
Montour version is in my list as mini-kit MK 11D.

I remember the B&O mini-kit with 3 side sills in a blank envelope. It was a
Naperville registration gift and was passed across the counter by the hotel
staff when you registered.

Jim

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Disposition of the Collection of H.K. Vollrath

Tim O'Connor
 

??? Gene, jdbandman@... is an email address, not a URL.

Tim

At 7/14/2013 10:35 AM Sunday, you wrote:
Tim,
The "jdbandman@..." in the notice you forwarded is not a "clickable" link. Can you provide his email address?
Gene Green


Re: Buy or Improve?

Walter Cox
 

Hi Keith,
I'm a 70 something modeler who's early interest in railroads got
rekindled back in the 90's with the formation of the CNLines, now the Canadian
National Historical Association. I read and reread articles like Stafford
Swain's treatise on CN's (my main railroad of interest) 40' AAR box cars and
gradually became a confirmed prototype modeler. But my approach differs
completely when it comes to modeling, due to factors such as price, availability
and time.Cars that I will need a lot of I tend to buy mid price accurate
kits and add whatever aftermarket parts will bring the closer to good resin
quality. I stock up when they become available. Cars that I won't require
too many of I'll usually buy resin and one of's of interesting cars I
sometimes will do a heavy kitbash to get. I guess availability tempered by price
is what usually determines my approach, with an eye on the clock. I will
comment on your observations below, within your e-mail.

In a message dated 7/13/2013 10:16:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
hvyweight41@... writes:


All-
Good evening. I have been a member of this group for but a little while
compared to the time many of you have spent in the pursuit of STMFC
knowledge. The studying of references and historical documents to discover how
things were really done. All for the purpose of improving the models that are
available to us. Yet, I get the impression that there are some among us who
desire the perfect kit with all the correct details and decals. All one need
do is assemble, paint and decal this kit to be happy.

<< I think what you are seeing here is a disenchantment with a kit which
is marketed and priced as though it is perfect when in fact it is flawed.>>


So, I ask you all, would you rather buy the perfect kit or improve a
lesser kit through research and the acquisition of knowledge? Do we limit
ourselves to the F&Cs and Westerfields of this world or do we take the Accurails
and Bowsers and improve them, making them solid running rolling stock with
as accurate details as we can?
<< This is basically what my first paragraph was all about except my
Accurails and Bowsers were Imex, now Red Caboose, Intermountain and Branchline
now Atlas. I have used some Accurail and Bowser kits but where possible will
go with kits with separate ladders. I have also upgraded some of the early
C&BT kits (with separate ladders).>>



This may be blasphemy for some but I offer the.se thoughts as a 50
something who looks forward to many years of modeling pleasure.
<<Not blasphemy at all. Its not really a case of "either or" but " all of
the above", as applicable, >>


Thank you for your patience,
Keith Kempster
Jacksonville, FL
<<Your welcome, thanks for yours, it's good to sit back and think about
what we're doing once in a while.

Walt Cox>>






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Buy or Improve?

Robert kirkham
 

It depends.
- I've used ready to run cars and torn them apart, replacing parts with commercial parts or my own parts to improve accuracy;
- I've started with nothing (using 3d drawing) or with bits and pieces of raw materials and scratchbuilt into something;
- I've used resin kits and built according to the instructions, or deviated from them to better model my prototype or for stylistic preferences on some details (who's brake wheel looks most right; which running board looks most accurate);
- I've done the same with complex styrene kits and with the simpler styrene kits.
- I've modelled with wood kits too, but, as a broad generalization, don't find they offer the same finished look that other materials produce (grooves too deep & wide; angle bracing too coarse; cross sections too thick, etc.).
- I haven't done much with cast metal kits yet.

I can't say the assembly of models is what makes me happy. I often find it frustrating and tiresome. Especially when whatever I am working on doesn't turn out well. But I like a finished model that captures my prototype well. For me, that remains the end goal, and the build - which can be very satisfying - is only a small part of it, as I hope to run it long term.

Rob Kirkham

-----Original Message-----
From: hvyweight41
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 7:16 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Buy or Improve?

All-
Good evening. I have been a member of this group for but a little while compared to the time many of you have spent in the pursuit of STMFC knowledge. The studying of references and historical documents to discover how things were really done. All for the purpose of improving the models that are available to us. Yet, I get the impression that there are some among us who desire the perfect kit with all the correct details and decals. All one need do is assemble, paint and decal this kit to be happy.
So, I ask you all, would you rather buy the perfect kit or improve a lesser kit through research and the acquisition of knowledge? Do we limit ourselves to the F&Cs and Westerfields of this world or do we take the Accurails and Bowsers and improve them, making them solid running rolling stock with as accurate details as we can?
This may be blasphemy for some but I offer these thoughts as a 50 something who looks forward to many years of modeling pleasure.
Thank you for your patience,
Keith Kempster
Jacksonville, FL



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