CNR paint

Bill Lane

I have recently received a CNR reefer from my friend that makes
them. He is making references to CNR #11 gray, and thought Scalecoat makes
it. I did not see it in the current color listing. I would be tempted to use
Scalecoat M O W gray since I have it but I see a tinge of green? Maybe?
Since it is almost completely built up with full underbody I can't fudge it

Is/was #11 Scalecoat CNR gray?

If you have a new sealed bottle that could be extraneous I would like to buy
it. It could be a few years old without too much concern. I would prefer a
2 oz bottle but could get by with 1 oz. I am not interested in Floquil. I
see Tru Color is possibly coming out with CNR gray. I would like to get the
car done before November.

Please reply directly to

Thank You,
Bill Lane

Modeling the Mighty Pennsy & PRSL in 1957 in S Scale since 1987

See my finished models at:
Look at what has been made in PRR in S Scale!

See my layout progress at:


Custom Train Parts Design

PRR Builders Photos Bought, Sold & Traded
(Trading is MUCH preferred)

***Join the PRR T&HS***
The other members are not ALL like me!

Join the Pennsylvania Reading Seashore Lines Historical Society
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Preserving The Memory Of The PRSL

Re: bulkhead flatcar loads

thomas christensen

Per ACL equipment diagrams.
Between 1951 and 1959, ACL added bulkheads to 10 small groups of class P-13 and P-14 53'6" flat cars for gypsum service. A total of 89 cars were converted. Two styles of bulkheads were used, with 44'6", 46'0", or 48'8" between the bulkheads.
In 1959, 2 groups of class W-4 pulpwood cars were converted for packaged lumber by adding 4"x4" timbers accross the original sloped deck and stake pockets.
More cars for both purposes were converted in the early 1960's.

Tom Christensen

Dominion boxcars in service

Bill Welch

These two links will take you some good photos of Dominion boxcars
being loaded. Nice vintage truck and forklift too.;search?query=A12251;search?query=Unloading+lumber+from

Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622

Re: Atlas USRA rebuild.

michaelegross <michaelEGross@...>

Dear Tony,

As a great believe in creative "illusion," I very much like your idea to add the shadow. It is simple, yet effective.



Michael Gross
La Cañada, CA

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: bulkhead flatcar loads


Did a little more digging on the IC cars. I don't have any Official guides
handy before 1965 but I do have a selection of IC equipment diagrams. The
pulpwood cars all have sheets on the variations and the index page call out
the various specially equipped cars (anyone looking for a sludge loading
boxcar?) the IC 60500 -60999 series, built 1946, has a notation on the line
diagram in 1954 "32 cars bulkheads" "6 cars for containers" (also Barber
S-2 trucks)

1955 & 1956 revised data shows "some cars equipped with bulkheads"

Don't know if anyone is interested in later years but by 1963 several
classes are shown. I believe I have a few more diagram books and equipment list
for the intermediate years for the IC and can dig deeper in the file box
but that was as far as I went this afternoon.

Mark Rickert

In a message dated 8/11/2013 3:38:59 P.M. Central Daylight Time, writes:

The AAR's Special Committee on Forest Products Loading authorized
experimental loads of packaged lumber on bulkhead flats in the fall of
1954. Cars
used within the tests came from Central of Georgia and Illinois Central.
The COG cars were pulpwood cars while the IC cars were bulkheads equipped
for plasterboard.

2013 St. Louis RPM Meet Report


Friends,                  The 2013 St. Louis Railroad Prototype Modeler’s (RPM) Meet was held on Friday, August 2nd and Saturday, August 3rd at the Gateway Convention Center in Collinsville, Illinois.The event was co-sponsored by the Gateway Division, Mid-Continent Region, National Model Railroad Association (the Gateway NMRA Division is at
265 modelers from the U.S. and Canada attended the event, bringing 1,350 models for display and operation.Attendees brought models of all scales, sizes and gauges, including rolling stock, structures, non-revenue equipment, modules, and other items pertaining to prototype railroad modeling for display and discussion. There are no contests at St. Louis RPM—models were brought for discussion and so modelers can share their best work, techniques and new ideas with other modelers.
In addition to model displays, The Midwest Valley Modelers brought a large, operating 15 x 40-foot modular layout for display in our main lobby.
Clinics were provided by Charlie Duckworth (Modeling the MP Bagnell Branch), James McNab (Endless Horizon on the Grimes Line), Jason Klocke (Modeling the Corn Belt Route), Gerry Albers (Operating the Deepwater District), Ryan Crawford (C&IM Commodities in 1989), Dave Roeder (Ops Sessions: Getting Started), David Lehlbach (P-S Covered Hoppers 1940 – 1981), Jack Spencer (Transition-era Freight Car Brake Systems), Dave Schroedle (Easy Weathering with AIM Powders), Steven Funaro (Resin Freight Car Construction Techniques), Blaine Hadfield (ExactRail), and David Owens (C&EI Hoppers).Thank you for bringing new clinics, ideas and encouragement to the hobby, and for helping our event to be a big success.
Our event also featured a number of hands-on workstations, including The Weathering Shop (see their amazing website at, Dave Schroedle of, Grex Airbrushes, and Badger Airbrushes.
Our vendors included Bob’s Photos, Tangent Scale Models, Cannon& Co., Moloco, Plano, LokSound, ExactRail, Rails Unlimited, Funaro & Camerlengo, Railshop Ltd., ICG Custom Decals, Grex Airbrushes, CRM Hobbies, Big Four Graphics, American Model Builders, Badger Airbrush, Mike Gruber Photos, Stan Rydarowicz Models, John Fuller Photos, Moon Dog Railcars, Mask Island Decals, Mike Kelley books, OST Publications, and we were fortunate to debut a new company, Weathering Solutions.We also hosted the New York Central, Wabash, Missouri Pacific, C&EI, GM&O, Nickel Plate, Central of Georgia, Illinois Terminal, Terminal RR Association and C&NW historical societies.
Many thanks to our home layout hosts in St. Charles, Missouri, including John Russell and his amazing O-scale Rock Island transition-era layout, Ron Schlueter’s HO-scale 1956-era D&RGW Tennessee Pass layout, and Bill Wehmeiers HO scale M-K-T late 1960s Kansas City layout.
We are grateful to our vendors and historical societies for donating door prizes for our guests.We are also grateful for all the manufacturers that provided door prizes and other gifts and information for our attendees.As always, our crew was humbled by the generosity of manufacturers and our vendors.We would also like to thank the Terminal Railroad Association for donating 150 annual publications (a $35.00 value) for the first 150 attendees.Thanks to Larry Thomas and the boys at the TRRA HS for being so generous!
Photos will be posted shortly at our PBase website, located at printable flyer of our 2013 meet can be found at
We’ll see you next year in St. Louis!Planning for our 2014 RPM Meet—our eighth annual gathering—is already underway.We’ll get back with you soon with dates, locations, and more event details.If you have any comments on how we can do things better, or if you’d like to be a vendor or bring your historical society or modular layout, please don’t hesitate to contact John Golden at 929-7181, or Lonnie Bathurst at (217) 556-0314.
Lonnie Bathurst
Clark Propst
Loren Casey
Dan Kohlberg
John Golden

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Re: bulkhead flatcar loads


The Andrew Merrian article in issue # 110 of trainline is excellent. Thanks
George for pointing this out. I obviousy overlooked it. It has everything
that we need to know in order to produce this load.

Thanks again:

Bill Pardie

On Aug 11, 2013, at 10:46 AM, wrote:

How does one obtain parts from Chas Boas? Does he have a website? An
ordering address and maybe a list of what's available?


Larry Platt

-----Original Message-----
From: cepropst <>

The roads servicing Ft Dodge Iowa started a pool with homemade
bulkheads on flat cars, later buying cars or kits, GSC. These cars all
started out with 6'6" bulkheads.
Chad Boas sells cast resin bulkheads for a group of CGW cars. There are
very nice!
Clark Propst

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Is anyone else having a problem with Yahoo? My account has been changed to
where everything resolves to "" and I cannot
see things as before (nor download pictures directly, etc). Their customer
service has yet to respond to any of my requests.

If anyone here has had this issue and found a resolution, please let me know


Brian Ehni

Re: 36-foot boxcars



I'll have another look at Ian's books. Now that you mention it, there's a few shots in one of them showing a few Dominion cars with AB brakes. As for interchange restrictions, I've never seen anything on interchanging cars with K brakes within Canada--the restriction was solely with roads in the US.

But how rigidly was the K brake interchange ban enforced in the say, five years or so, after it took effect? This could explain a lot with respect to these and other roads' cars fitted with K brakes. The applicable AAR field manual might specify a ban, but...?

Trains Magazine editor David P. Morgan reported in a mid-1950's article (reprinted in "The Mohawk That Refused To Abdicate") that he saw Canadian roads' cars stencilled with the words (or similar) "THIS CAR NOT EQUIPPED WITH AB BRAKE DO NOT LOAD FOR DESTINATIONS IN US".

I am very interested in seeing Don Valentine's stats on CN Dominion cars refitted with AB brakes. Luckily I have a few to build--now at least one will get AB's. As for the power handbrakes, there is one photo in a book of Ian's that I recall showing a CN Dominion car refitted with power handbrakes.

Steve Lucas.

--- In, "Pierre" <pierre.oliver@...> wrote:

You might want to revisit Ian Wilson's book series of CNR in Ontario. I can recall a seeing photos of a good number of Fowlers with AB brakes, with both power hand brakes and vertical stem winders.
I'd also like to point out that what you "feel" may not in fact be reality. I've seen plenty of images of CN and CP Fowlers south of the border, post the K brake interchange ban.
With the size of the Fowler fleets for both railways, not being able to interchange within Canada, never mind to the US, would be an unacceptable restriction I would submit.
Pierre Oliver

Re: Masking material for painting

Andy Sperandeo

My preference is the 3M blue masking tape. I stick it down on glass, cut a new edge, and lift it to apply to the model. The tack is just about right. I use water-based paints thinned with water, and I've found that drafting tape comes loose when it gets wet. 

So long,


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: True Line trains slab side CN covered hopper now CP Mini-Box


Hi, Bill -

Just catching up on my forum reading (I was on vacation...).

The Minibox and Fowler cars haven't been released yet. I don't have an ETA for delivery right now, other than hopefully later this year, but possibly early next year.

We've had a lot of delays at the factory, but we're finally getting some shipments in of some non-steam-era stuff.

Next up should be the 1937 AAR Box Cars. These are the Canadian variations (no poling pockets, ladders with integral stirrup steps, NSC #1 or #2 ends, or 5/5 dreadnaught which was unique on a 10'0" IH car).

The express variations will be a little later, most likely with the express 8-hatch reefers.

After that are steam-era 4-axle (freight) C-Liners, which may be of interest to MILW, NYC and PRR modelers.

Where the rest of the models will fall isn't entirely determined yet, but the Minibox will be before the Fowler car.

Before I'm asked - the Minibox will have a wood running board, not steel.

Also, the initial run of the upgraded Fowler cars will be the ones with 2-brace ends, and drop grabs.

Future plans include the 3-, 4-, and 5-brace ends, ladders, and I think we've figured out how to modify the tooling to allow for the 6' door for the CN, CP, and US roads. It's a big project.

We probably will also look into another run of the Slab Side Hoppers eventually too.

Any schedule estimates are dependent upon the factory actually delivering what they promise, although we may be setting up production in one or two additional factories as well. We're getting there.

Our best estimates for delivery dates are listed in the left sidebar of our homepage. Check it out any time.


Randy Hammill | True Line Trains |
Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954

--- In, "Bill" <wpmccoy@...> wrote:

I see the CP mini box on their web page. Did any state side handle these cars? I want one with the staggered lettering and lumber door. Klein doesn't show them.

Bill McCoy
Jax, FL

--- In, BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@> wrote:
True Line also offers the CPR steel 40' "Minibox", Canadian overhead bunker
steel ice reefers, 36' steel-frame "Fowler" boxcars, and Canadian 40', 10'
i.h. steel boxcars. All are nice models of cars that ran into the US.

Steve Lucas.

--- In <> ,
"Norman+Laraine Larkin" <lonolarkin1@> wrote:

Its a nice (but expensive) model. I saw them frequently (both CP and CN) on
westbound trains on the B&M main line at East Deerfield, MA in the 70s. Not
sure what they were hauling or to whom.
Norm Larkin

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill" <wpmccoy@>
To: < <> >
Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2013 8:54 PM
Subject: [STMFC] True Line trains slab side CN covered hopper

Any comments or thoughts on the True line CN slab side covered hopper? Did
they ever come to the US?

Bill McCoy
Jax, FL


Yahoo! Groups Links

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Re: Masking material for painting

O Fenton Wells

Larry, we are from the same school. In fact I even use regular old masking
tape from Walmart (gasp!) and when putting it on glass first it works fine.
Also remember to cut the edges of the tape off as they have fuzz on them.
fenton wells

On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Larry Kline <> wrote:


I also use drafting tape. I apply it to a piece of glass to make it even
less sticky and cut a sharper edge with a razor blade and a steel straight

Larry Kline

Tony Thompson wrote:
My standard for masking continues to be "drafting tape," which looks like
regular masking tape but has FAR less tack. I have never had it lift any
paint. You do have to firmly burnish down edges, but you can certainly get
a good seal and a clean separation.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Masking material for painting

Larry Kline

I also use drafting tape. I apply it to a piece of glass to make it even less sticky and cut a sharper edge with a razor blade and a steel straight edge.

Larry Kline

Tony Thompson wrote:
My standard for masking continues to be "drafting tape," which looks like regular masking tape but has FAR less tack. I have never had it lift any paint. You do have to firmly burnish down edges, but you can certainly get a good seal and a clean separation.

Re: bulkhead flatcar loads

George Corral <g.corral@...>

--- In, "Charles Hostetler" wrote:

It appears that Andrew Merriam published an article in Volume 110:39
of SP Trainline titled Modeling Plasterboard Loads for the F-70-6. I am
wondering if anyone has read that article and can comment on it; and how
one might go about obtaining a reprint.


Charles Hostetler

Charles, try this: Trainlines Vol. 110

George Corral

Re: bulkhead flatcar loads

Clark Propst

The photo in the link Doug provided is not the bulkheads Chad has for sale. They were purchased cars. The bulkheads were solid vertical rectangles, I believe there are four across the end. A end had the cabinets. Those who have the CGW color guide know the cars...2000 series?

I'm told that the different gypsum plants in Ft Dodge (there were several during the steam era) used different colored plastic to cover the loads. It was not uncommon for a box car to be loaded with wall board in one end and bagged plaster in the other.
Clark Propst

--- In, "Douglas Harding" <doug.harding@...> wrote:

Here is a link to a loaded CGW bulkhead flat

Doug Harding

Re: Masking material for painting

Don <riverman_vt@...>

My thanks to Tony, Antonio, Jack and Brian for your responses to me questions about using Frog brand tape for masking. I have used drafting or masking tape, usually 3M, for forty-five years and Chart-Pak fine tapes for things like the safety stripes on the pilots of Rutland diesels but wondered if the newcomer might offer any advantage. From your responses it appears best to remain with the tried and true so I appreciate your sharing of expereinces.

Cordially, Don Valentine

PS: Do any of you know a good way to really upset Mike Brock
so that I can continue in Moderator Jail and make him earn his
keep as moderator? Perhaps I should post his private email to
me and see if that would do the trick! VVBG (-:

Re: 36-foot boxcars

Monk Alan <Alan.Monk@...>

Ray Breyer posted: I've posted an abridged version of my car tallies to the files section of the group so everyone can see the raw numbers (I also posted the list from my 2009 clinic on postwar single sheathed cars).

Very useful, thanks Ray! Knowing the 'end dates' of various types means I could allow/justify myself a couple more... maybe *grin*

2 more for the 'post 1945 Models Page' - Sunshine released a very nice kit for the NC&StL steel rebuilt shorties a few years back (2010??) and also the ICT 36' SS car

I know the ICT car isn't currently available, as that was the one kit missing from my most recent Sunshine delivery :(

Alan Monk,
London, UK

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Re: bulkhead flatcar loads

NickG <nick.gully@...>

The Rio Grande had two narrow gauge bulkhead flatcars made in the 1950's for wallboard, photos I have seen in B&W show rectangular stacks wrapped in a dark colored canvas or tarp like material with thin black metal banding.

Best Regards,
Nick Gully

Re: bulkhead flatcar loads

Douglas Harding

A quick Google image search for bulkhead flats will produce a variety of
loads on bulkhead flats. Including poles, structural and flat steel, pipes,
dimensional lumber and timbers, pulpwood, concrete pipe, ties (wood and
concrete), coiled wire, and flattened automobiles.

Sheetrock, drywall or wallboard, plasterboard, gypsum board, even gyp board
or gyprock, depends on the part of the country from which you come, and the
name brand of the product used. Plasterboard appears to be a
British/Australian favored term. Fort Dodge IA was/is home to two large
gypsum mines/plants. USG dates to the turn of the last century, and began
producing a paper and plaster board in 1917. National Gypsum began
production in 1925, purchased the Fort Dodge plant in the 30's.

Standard sizes today are 4'x8' but also in 12' lengths. Other sizes are
available. In earlier years other sizes were common. I have lived in houses
that were constructed with 16" wide drywall, ie more joints to tape and be

According to Gene Green's color book on CGW Freight Cars (Morning Sun), the
CGW began converting cars as traffic increased after WWII. They commonly
used a 53'6" flat car, constructing bulkheads that reduced usable length to
48'6". The bulkhead were 6'6" in height and included an enclosed locker for
storage of chains and tiedowns.

Here is a link to a loaded CGW bulkhead flat

This link has a photo of an SP car loaded with "plasterboard" wrapped in plastic and
lath strips.

Doug Harding

Re: bulkhead flatcar loads

Charles Hostetler

--- In, WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...> wrote:

What we need now for the plasterboard loads is for some talented and knowledgeable
modelers to come up with the load and securement. The photo in Tony's SP book
lead me to believe that the loads were wrapped (What color?). They rested on evenly spaced cross members. It appears that bands were attached to the cross members
and not to thestake pockets.

Anyone know for sure?

Bill Pardie

Bill and Others,

That photo in Tony's book (if its the one I think you mean; Southern Pacific Freight Cars, Vol 3, page 329 SP 80596) shows a plasterboard load that appears to me to have been loaded according to the Gypsum Associations recommended practices (1955). The load is wrapped in fiberboard and banded. Inside the fiberboard, the layers of wallboard are probably stickered every so often with vertically aligned lengths of lathe, which you can see in the photo at the bottom of page 335 of the same book (that load appears to me to have only a fiberboard covering on the top, not sides).

I've posted some of the 1% carload waybill statistics for these shipments, including car types. Those interested can find the post at:

It appears that Andrew Merriam published an article in Volume 110:39 of SP Trainline titled Modeling Plasterboard Loads for the F-70-6. I am wondering if anyone has read that article and can comment on it; and how one might go about obtaining a reprint.


Charles Hostetler

72001 - 72020 of 189740