Yes, The label won't tell you if it's A, B, C, etc. but it will tell you Rr 23, or Rr34, etc. Which is what you want to know.

 

Tom Hayden

>I have 2 of those kits in my "stash". How can one best distinguish the A, B, C versions you mentioned.

>>

>>Version A covers Classes Rr-19/23/24/25/26/28/32

>>Version B covers Classes Rr-33/34

>>Version C covers Classes Rr-35/36/39/40

>>Version D covers Class Rr-43

>>Version E covers Classes Rr-45/46

>>Version E1 covers Class Rr-48

>I have 2 of those kits in my "stash". How can one best distinguish the A, B, C versions you mentioned.
>>
>>Version A covers Classes Rr-19/23/24/25/26/28/32
>>Version B covers Classes Rr-33/34
>>Version C covers Classes Rr-35/36/39/40
>>Version D covers Class Rr-43
>>Version E covers Classes Rr-45/46
>>Version E1 covers Class Rr-48

I have 2 of those kits in my "stash". How can one best distinguish the A, B, C versions you mentioned.

Version A covers Classes Rr-19/23/24/25/26/28/32
Version B covers Classes Rr-33/34
Version C covers Classes Rr-35/36/39/40
Version D covers Class Rr-43
Version E covers Classes Rr-45/46
Version E1 covers Class Rr-48

 

I believe the Keith Jordan post below appeared on this group sometime back.  The Neo system makes finding these things a pain but I did happen to save the post.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

+++ 

Shawn Beckert, while opening a can of worms, asked about the CB&T SFRD
reefers. Here goes.

The various versions, which CB&T lists as A/B/C, etc. were a
shorthand I developed for Dick Schweigert so his designer/toolmaker
could tell the difference, rather than rely on class designations.
The bodies are the only difference, all of the detail parts were the
same for each version/class. Here is the cross-reference, I'll throw
my two cents in about the cars after:

Version A covers Classes Rr-19/23/24/25/26/28/32
Version B covers Classes Rr-33/34
Version C covers Classes Rr-35/36/39/40
Version D covers Class Rr-43
Version E covers Classes Rr-45/46
Version E1 covers Class Rr-48

Versions A1-D1 are those classes modernized in the 1950s with
additional insulation, hatch cover and running board changes and
sliding plug doors. The classes represent the USRA-style reefers,
rebuilt by the Santa Fe into all steel cars, from 1936 through 1949.
The complete history of these cars is covered in the Santa Fe Rolling
Stock Reference Series Volume 2, Ice Bunker Refrigerator Cars, by
Jordan, Hendrickson, Moore and Hale.

Dick Schweigert's concept to tool an entire group of cars was quite
revolutionary in the plastic field. Unfortunately, some tooling
mistakes and questionable execution caused the project to falter. I
supplied Dick with all of the drawings and information for the cars
and I was supposed to proof/sign-off on the final drawings. I did so
for the first carbody; after marking up the drawings so much with red
ink it looked as though a gruesome murder had occurred. His
designer/toolmaker did not like the interference, so I never saw
another drawing. In fact, I didn't see the cars until after the
tooling had been completed.

The main problem with the cars is the roof; it's three inches too
high, but more egregious, it's nine inches too wide. To fix, you have
to remove the excess width, and then lower the roof. Otherwise, the
car is too top heavy. The walls of the carbody are pretty thick and
if there's some bowing, it can cause some problems. The recessed
Dreadnaught ends of the early classes aren't executed as well as the
Intermountain cars (When I was contacted by IMRC about doing SFRD
reefers, I saw an opportunity to right a wrong. Second chances are
Godsends.), I suggest using the Intermountain cars instead.

The underframe is passable, but lacks the better tooling of the
Intermountain cars. I had Martin Lofton cast a bunch of detail parts
for these cars, but never sold them to others, as the Intermountain
cars came out, obviating the need for most of the replacement parts.
The CB&T detail parts are pretty bad, which in itself is too bad
because they includes such things as Preco fan housings and the
different style of hinges ("tongue-less") used on the similar GATC-
built SFRD reefers. CB&T later included Grandt Line ladders and Tichy
AB brake sets.

The later body styles' tooling is pretty good, rivets are the correct
size and very sharp, the doors are good, and the later Dreadnaught
and Improved Dreadnaught ends are nice.

The kits also included a brief history, plus a "spotting features"
chart, as well as a chart noting painting and lettering variations.

CB&T later had custom decal sets done by Microscale, called
Reefercals, which covered all of the painting/lettering variations
for the cars. I don't know what happened to these ( I got a couple of
sets.)

In short, all the kits are accurate and can be brought up to current
standards, especially the later classes, but not without a lot of
work. It's too bad, because Dick had a terrific opportunity. I never
see the cars in shops or advertised, but until his recent illness,
Dick was at the fall trade show with the entire line. I don't even
know if you can still get them. Hope this helps.

Keith Jordan

---In STMFC@..., <stmfc@...> wrote:

I recall reading I think on the atsfrr.net website that the C&BT kits for SFRD reefers were 9 scale inches too wide. Does anyone know if that was corrected on the current models?  I realize that's not a lot, but next to a Intermountain car it would be noticeable. 

I'm always looking for a more cost effect way to build up the fleet.

Mark P Stamm

mark@...

Sent from my mobile device

On Oct 22, 2013, at 5:55 PM, SUVCWORR@... wrote:

 

Keep in mind that all of the C&BT dies were hand cut.  They are not computer laser cut as today's dies are.  The dies for the bodies, ends and roofs were cut by a talented die cutter.  Unfortunately he died before completing the detail parts.  His son attempted to finish the detail sprue molds but simply did not have the same level of ability as his father.  In addition to the complaints, Dick received some bad advise from a number of highly regarded modelers recommending he trash the separate parts as this was not the wave of the future.  He followed this advice and had the details cut into the body, end and roof dies to the extent possible.

Dick was also the first as far as I know to add colorant to the plastic pellets so that the color of the plastic matched the color of the car.  Scrap the paint from a C&BT car and the plastic will be the same color as the paint.

Rich Orr

"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."

Joseph V Paterno

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Thompson <tony@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tue, Oct 22, 2013 1:14 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: C& BT back in business

       Not sure why all the criticism of these cars. The bodies are largely quite well done. I have said for years, "just throw away all the detail sprues and replace with quality parts," and would still say so. I don't have any of the cast-on parts cars, so am talking about the original, add-the-details cars. When I lived in Pittsburgh, I knew Dick Schweiger, and I can attest to his fine model-building skills. He completely understands what is involved, but simply could not find a mold maker who could do what was needed. He did indeed get tired of the complaints about the quality of details, which is why he went the cast-on route. I see lots of abuse here on that score. Can you say "Accurail?"

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com

(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...

Publishers of books on railroad history

Claus Schlund asked:
"Is the car in the image below a CP 'minibox'?
http://www3.vpl.vancouver.bc.ca/spePhotos/LeonardFrankCollection/02DisplayJPGs/469/41541.jpg

Yes. The giveaways are the radial roof, Dreadnaught ends, single rows of rivets joining the side sheets, and the long "tabs" at the bolsters.
http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/cp246134main.html

Ben Hom

On Oct 22, 2013, at 5:55 PM, SUVCWORR@... wrote:

 

Keep in mind that all of the C&BT dies were hand cut.  They are not computer laser cut as today's dies are.  The dies for the bodies, ends and roofs were cut by a talented die cutter.  Unfortunately he died before completing the detail parts.  His son attempted to finish the detail sprue molds but simply did not have the same level of ability as his father.  In addition to the complaints, Dick received some bad advise from a number of highly regarded modelers recommending he trash the separate parts as this was not the wave of the future.  He followed this advice and had the details cut into the body, end and roof dies to the extent possible.

Dick was also the first as far as I know to add colorant to the plastic pellets so that the color of the plastic matched the color of the car.  Scrap the paint from a C&BT car and the plastic will be the same color as the paint.

Rich Orr

"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."

Joseph V Paterno

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Thompson <tony@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tue, Oct 22, 2013 1:14 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: C& BT back in business

       Not sure why all the criticism of these cars. The bodies are largely quite well done. I have said for years, "just throw away all the detail sprues and replace with quality parts," and would still say so. I don't have any of the cast-on parts cars, so am talking about the original, add-the-details cars. When I lived in Pittsburgh, I knew Dick Schweiger, and I can attest to his fine model-building skills. He completely understands what is involved, but simply could not find a mold maker who could do what was needed. He did indeed get tired of the complaints about the quality of details, which is why he went the cast-on route. I see lots of abuse here on that score. Can you say "Accurail?"

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com

(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...

Publishers of books on railroad history

 

Keep in mind that all of the C&BT dies were hand cut.  They are not computer laser cut as today's dies are.  The dies for the bodies, ends and roofs were cut by a talented die cutter.  Unfortunately he died before completing the detail parts.  His son attempted to finish the detail sprue molds but simply did not have the same level of ability as his father.  In addition to the complaints, Dick received some bad advise from a number of highly regarded modelers recommending he trash the separate parts as this was not the wave of the future.  He followed this advice and had the details cut into the body, end and roof dies to the extent possible.

Dick was also the first as far as I know to add colorant to the plastic pellets so that the color of the plastic matched the color of the car.  Scrap the paint from a C&BT car and the plastic will be the same color as the paint.

Rich Orr

"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."

Joseph V Paterno

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Thompson <tony@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tue, Oct 22, 2013 1:14 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: C& BT back in business

       Not sure why all the criticism of these cars. The bodies are largely quite well done. I have said for years, "just throw away all the detail sprues and replace with quality parts," and would still say so. I don't have any of the cast-on parts cars, so am talking about the original, add-the-details cars. When I lived in Pittsburgh, I knew Dick Schweiger, and I can attest to his fine model-building skills. He completely understands what is involved, but simply could not find a mold maker who could do what was needed. He did indeed get tired of the complaints about the quality of details, which is why he went the cast-on route. I see lots of abuse here on that score. Can you say "Accurail?"

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com

(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...

Publishers of books on railroad history