Date   

Re: Reboxx Wheel set Issue

Thomas Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

Brian,

It is possible that when the wheelsets were packaged, that the
wheelset in question got mixed in by accident. The best thing to do
is to drop J.P. a note and tell him. Knowing him, he will probably
replace it and may ask that you return the one you received.

Tom Olser
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479

On 10/13/13, Brian Carlson <prrk41361@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ben: I'm not complaining, I was just wondering if others had had it happen.
I'll use another 1600 of their wheel sets if I get everything built.



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga, NY



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben
Heinley
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 8:44 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Reboxx Wheel set Issue





Did you write the manufacturer? I think I would have tried contacting
them
before

writing to this forum especially after having a problem with one set after
installing "hundreds of sets". Then you may have been able to have written
a positive

letter about a manufacturer trying hard to service our needs.

I am not a manufacturer but have worked for "P.E.s"

Ben H
in Denver



On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Brian Carlson <prrk41361@yahoo.com> wrote:



In the first time for everything, I have an issue with a Reboxx wheel set.
I
recently purchased two packages of 1.020, 33", one side insulated (yellow
package) wheel sets. I was installing some in a car today and the wheel
set
was TIGHT, the other 3 were fine. I thought maybe I forgot to use the tool
on the one axle. Used the conical tool, reinserted, nope still tight. Turns
out at least one axle in the 1.020 package was 1.040. Oops. First time I've
run into this in the hundreds of wheel sets I've installed. Has this
happened to anyone else? It will just go into another drawer in the wheel
set cabinet. Also, I tried another 1.020 axle and it was fine so the
problem
is the wheel set.



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga, NY








Re: Hart Ballast Cars *** Kits for Sale***

Doug Junda
 

All have been sold .

Thanks,
Doug


___


Re: Seley Hoppers

Steve H <nwicfan@...>
 

I have posted four photos of Seley hoppers in the group's file section. One B&O, two Southern and one Frisco.
 
- Steve Hedlund


On Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:30 PM, Steve H wrote:
Hey Guys,
 
During a recent thread, Seley hoppers were brought up and I thought that I would see how long they actually lasted.
 
B&O N11-class 130020-series cars: 1911: 1,969 cars; 1930: 228 cars; 1935: 0 cars
Southern RY 282100-series cars: 1930: 1,863 cars; 1950: 1,784 cars; 1955: 110 cars
SLSF 80400-series cars: 1911: 495 cars; 1925: 464 cars; 1930: 29 cars
 
I'll grant anyone by saying that compared to other hopper types, there were not many made but they could be on-par with USRA hoppers (not USRA copies) and Mather cars. Not sure about that but it seems that way to me. I am not a freight car expert by any stretch but every now and then I'll see a photo of a Seley hopper pop up. So to me, having one or two or three Seley hoppers on a layout makes sense to me.
 
BTW, I don't know what series the N&W, D&H and other users of Seley hoppers were but I just grabbed three Seley cars and just followed the bread crumbs. Obviously most cars didn't make it past the Great Depression. But neither did Billboard reefers or Heinz reefers. Just saying.
 
- Steve Hedlund



Re: Lead shot in flat cars

 

Chad – As long as you’re casing your own cars, why not cast the decks from a heavy, low melting point  metal like Cerro Bend?  My first castings were done this way.  In fact I still have a truss rod flat with Cerro Bend deck.  I cast it in a sealed vertical mold with gate and air relief lines made from card stock and carefully greased with Vaseline.  The mold is held together by plywood and clamps.  This arrangement is heated in the kitchen oven to the melting point of the metal.  The metal is melted on the stove and poured into the mold.  When cool the metal is soft enough for scribing a wood deck.  If doing a metal one, punch indentations in the cardstock to represent rivets. – Al Westerfield
 

From: Chad Boas
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 6:54 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Lead shot in flat cars
 
 

I have been trying different ways to weight the resin flat cars that I cast. I bought some #5 shot and dropped some into in the center sill of the mold before the resin cures. I went from .4oz without lead to 1oz with lead. There are a few bumps that show up after the resin cured. If I use it only in the center sill of a fish belly side car, it would never be seen. I think for the straight sill cars, I could get some key stock and drop into the resin.
I can post photos if anyone is interested.
Also, working on some new kits. Stay tuned!
Chad


Santa Fe Bx-38 question

Rich C
 

Group, I have a question regarding how the brake reservoir is mounted on the Bx-38 War emergency box car. Is it mounted conventionally or traversely?

Thanks,
Rich Christie


Re: Lead shot in flat cars

Don Burn
 

Think about a tungsten sheet (they are available on Amazon), they weight 1.7
times lead.

Don Burn

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2013 6:15 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Lead shot in flat cars




true, but atomic numbers are not a good indicator of density.
lead is 60% heavier by volume as reported by others and that's what i was
too lazy to look up myself... :-)

Sometimes I may need some really thin weight and I'm interested in that .020
zinc sheet. A penny is almost 3x as thick as that and the thinnest lead
sheet is half again as thick as the thin zinc.

Tim O'


At 10/26/2013 10:18 PM Saturday, you wrote:




Look at the periodic table. Zn has an atomic number of 65.38, while
Pb has an atomic number of 207.2, so lead is a lot heaver then zinc.

Nelson Moyer


Re: Lead shot in flat cars

Tim O'Connor
 


true, but atomic numbers are not a good indicator of density.
lead is 60% heavier by volume as reported by others and that's
what i was too lazy to look up myself... :-)

Sometimes I may need some really thin weight and I'm interested
in that .020 zinc sheet. A penny is almost 3x as thick as that and
the thinnest lead sheet is half again as thick as the thin zinc.

Tim O'


At 10/26/2013 10:18 PM Saturday, you wrote:


Look at the periodic table. Zn has an atomic number of 65.38, while Pb has an atomic number of 207.2, so lead is a lot heaver then zinc.
 
Nelson Moyer


Re: Lead shot in flat cars

Richard White
 

If you are using lead in any form to add weight to cars (or locomotives) be very careful about using white (PVA) glue anywhere near it as the acetic acid from the PVA can react with the lead and cause it to swell with potentially disastrous results. The smaller sizes of lead shot seem to be the worst offenders, doubtless due to a larger surface area.
I live in Botswana - a dry country - and in the driest part - and have gotten away with it but people living in moister climates have had serious problems, leading to severe damage to valuable brass kit- and scratch-built locomotives and to cars of all descriptions.
Some petroleum based gluescan cause similar problems.
Resin glues as advocated by Chad Boas seem to be safe.
Take care, good luck and happy modelling
Richard White


Re: Lead shot in flat cars

Jim Williams <wwww5960@...>
 

Zinc = 7.14 g/ml
Lead = 11.34 g/ml
Best Jim W.
 


On Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:58 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
 

have you tried to fill a straw or brass tube with shot and pour it from that?

> I have a bag of 000 lead shot (aka "triple ought"). It fits
>just about any where and can be glued in place using
>white glue. I have found that lead shot does not want to
>go where I want it to when attempting to 'pour' it into
>the recesses on the under side of a flat car and so I use
>a pair of tweezers and drop the shot into place one at a
>time. A light coating of white glue (or KK) in the space
>before you drop in the shot helps keep it where you
>want it. It only takes about 10 minutes to do one layer
>in all the spaces you might want it. Take care to balance
>the lead as you go so you don't get the car off kilter.
> - Jim Betz




Re: AUTOMOBILE SHIPMENTS IN BOX CARS IN THE 1950S

Guy Wilber
 

Al wrote:
 
"Hello: I recall 1957 or 1958 Nash Ramblers arriving at Salem MA in 40' box cars. I don't know the type of loaders that were used but remember that they were stacked 2 over 2. Wondered at the time how the top cars were unloaded. Wish I were more attuned to railroad practices at the time. Regards, Al Campbell"
 
Al,
 
Nash, along with several other small manufacturers, was more likely to have shipped their product by rail for long distances due to not owning any regional assembly plants.  Shipments (via rail) of total production from Nash's Kenosha, Wisconsin, plant were 52% in 1947 as contrasted with 26.6% of all autos produced in the Detroit area.
 
The loaders would have been Evans as they were the only game in town by 1957. 
 
If you still wonder how the top cars were unloaded, let me know and I will be happy to explain the procedure.
 
Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada
 
 


Re: Lead shot in flat cars

Tim O'Connor
 

have you tried to fill a straw or brass tube with shot and pour it from that?

I have a bag of 000 lead shot (aka "triple ought"). It fits
just about any where and can be glued in place using
white glue. I have found that lead shot does not want to
go where I want it to when attempting to 'pour' it into
the recesses on the under side of a flat car and so I use
a pair of tweezers and drop the shot into place one at a
time. A light coating of white glue (or KK) in the space
before you drop in the shot helps keep it where you
want it. It only takes about 10 minutes to do one layer
in all the spaces you might want it. Take care to balance
the lead as you go so you don't get the car off kilter.
- Jim Betz


Seley Hoppers

Steve H <nwicfan@...>
 

Hey Guys,
 
During a recent thread, Seley hoppers were brought up and I thought that I would see how long they actually lasted.
 
B&O N11-class 130020-series cars: 1911: 1,969 cars; 1930: 228 cars; 1935: 0 cars
Southern RY 282100-series cars: 1930: 1,863 cars; 1950: 1,784 cars; 1955: 110 cars
SLSF 80400-series cars: 1911: 495 cars; 1925: 464 cars; 1930: 29 cars
 
I'll grant anyone by saying that compared to other hopper types, there were not many made but they could be on-par with USRA hoppers (not USRA copies) and Mather cars. Not sure about that but it seems that way to me. I am not a freight car expert by any stretch but every now and then I'll see a photo of a Seley hopper pop up. So to me, having one or two or three Seley hoppers on a layout makes sense to me.
 
BTW, I don't know what series the N&W, D&H and other users of Seley hoppers were but I just grabbed three Seley cars and just followed the bread crumbs. Obviously most cars didn't make it past the Great Depression. But neither did Billboard reefers or Heinz reefers. Just saying.
 
- Steve Hedlund


AUTOMOBILE SHIPMENTS IN BOX CARS IN THE 1950S (edit)

Guy Wilber
 

Sorry all, my first effort was not complete when I accidentally hit the "send" button.
 
Bill wrote:

"The recent issue of Trains Magazine has a number of articles on the shipment of automobiles via rail but is a bit vague about the timeline for the use of box cars."
 
The article is not only vague on that timeline, but also fails to mention the use of the Evans Auto~Loader or the NYC Railroad's two designs of auto loaders.  Though it is not my intent to critique author Peter Hansen, I will state that to ignore the significance of these loading systems, coupled with their impact upon the shipment of finished automobiles and light trucks, is to ignore a, if not the, major factor within the railroads' transport of motor vehicles from 1933 thru the mid 1960's.
 
I will note (again) that early shipping methods, even when utilizing 36' foot box cars prior to the mass purchases of double door auto cars, routinely employed methods which allowed for four (or more) vehicles to be loaded within cars.  Double decking and tilting cars in much the same manner as the future auto loaders was common place and essential in order to meet minimum weights specified within tariffs. It must be borne in mind that an average automobile produced in the 'teens weighed less than a ton.  Ford; not alone in shipping multiple vehicles, whether knocked down or complete, didn't require a fifty ton automobile car to transport his product.       
 
"It has been my understanding -- perhaps misguided -- that automobile shipments after WWII moved from rail to highway over the road trailer and very few cars were shipped in box cars at this time period."
 
Railroads lost the majority share of new, fully assembled, auto and light truck shipments to trucking in 1932, and never recaptured that advantage until after 1960.  Prior to the 1930's, shipments of automobiles and light trucks were dominated by the railroads.  In 1932 51.5% of new autos and light trucks were delivered by truck or so-called "drive-aways"-- the latter two methods of delivery were grouped statistically (during that period), thus it is hard to derive the true percentage hauled by truck.   
 
None-the less, the railroads maintained an average of around 40% of the finished motor vehicle traffic during the pre-war years.  When auto production resumed in 1945 the railroads continued a down hill slide in shipments due in part to; equipment in disrepair, manufacturers operating more regional assembly plants and rate wars with trucking interests.       

"1) is my understanding of the shipment of automobiles via rail correct?"
 
No, the railroads still handled a good portion of the automobile and light truck traffic during the post war years from which they received a higher profit per ton than virtually any other commodity.

"2) were automobiles being shipped in box cars into the 1950's?"
 
Yes, by the thousands.
 
"3) if YES, then what makes were shipped by rail?"
 
Ford, Lincoln, Mercury, Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick, Oldsmobile, Cadillac, Chrysler, Dodge, Plymouth, Checker, DeSoto, Hudson, Kaiser, Nash, Packard, Studebaker, Willys and Crosley.

"4) after WWII was box car shipment of automobiles, if shipped in a box car, done using 40-foot or 50-foot box cars?"
 
40-foot auto cars equipped with Evans Auto~Loaders outnumbered 50-foot auto cars (so equipped) until mid-1957.  For your year of interest; 1953, there were well over 18.000 40-foot cars and around 11,000 50-footers.  40-foot cars were as well suited as their 50-foot companions when small to mid-sized vehicles were shipped. 
 
50-foot cars were purchased in large part to serve the small truck market as well as autos.  The racks were equipped with wide wheel pans which allowed either automobiles or trucks to be loaded.  The extra length coupled with generally (at least) a 10' 6" inside height allowed larger, and longer vehicles to be more easily positioned on the floor of the car once the vehicle placed on the rack had been raised and secured for shipment.  A common load for such cars was two automobiles placed on the racks and two light trucks placed on the floor.  Also, a good percentage of 50-foot cars were equipped with Type "F" loaders (with sixteen floor tubes) which along with Evans final model, the Type "G" could accommodate five automobiles.
 
Regards,
 
Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada  


Re: Lead shot in flat cars

Jim Betz
 

Hi,

I have a bag of 000 lead shot (aka "triple ought"). It fits
just about any where and can be glued in place using
white glue. I have found that lead shot does not want to
go where I want it to when attempting to 'pour' it into
the recesses on the under side of a flat car and so I use
a pair of tweezers and drop the shot into place one at a
time. A light coating of white glue (or KK) in the space
before you drop in the shot helps keep it where you
want it. It only takes about 10 minutes to do one layer
in all the spaces you might want it. Take care to balance
the lead as you go so you don't get the car off kilter.
- Jim Betz


Re: Most needed car?

 

Andrew,

 

Right now I do not have a pic of the boxcar in question but I will soon.  My point-and-shoot camera, even though it is digital, just does not do close-up work very well.  So I have arranged to have a friend come here to photograph my layout, some of my brass locomotives and some of my rolling stock.  The pics will then be made available to Noel Widdifield for his NYC Modeler e-zine.

 

As for the car that I kitbashed, it started life as a Des Plaines Valley Car & Foundry 1916-12 New York Central/Michigan Central  boxcar.  I applied the sides from Westerfield kit number 3000.  The result is fairly good although if I were to do it again the result would be better.  I built the car about twelve years ago.

 

Thank you for your interest.

 

Hugh T. Guillaume 

From: "mguill1224@..." <mguill1224@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 8:20 PM
Subject: RE: RE: Re: RE: Re: [STMFC] Re: Most needed car?

 
I doubt that many people ever did this, but I did combine body and roof parts from two Westerfield kits to make one NYC boxcar that Al never offered.  It turned out rather well although no one who has seen the model has ever asked me about it, probably because it is too esoteric a prototype.  Hugh T. Guillaume 


---In STMFC@..., <stmfc@...> wrote:

Ben,
 I understand what you are saying, but if you look back through the NYCSHS Central Headlights over the last many years, you will find articles with all sorts of details for the modeler and most of the NYCS equipment. 
 What is happening is that fewer and fewer modelers are interested in building from scratch.  I know that all of you are totally dedicated to that, but as the editor of the NYCentral Modeler I cannot find anyone interested in writing about scratchbuilding or even kitbashing NYC models.
 I would welcome any contributions from any of the many fine modelers in this Group to write an article or two about their NYC modeling.  Just let me know if you are interested and I will send you some of the materials we have available to help potential authors.
 I can't publish it if no one writes it.
 Thanks, Noel


---In STMFC@..., <stmfc@...> wrote:

Noel Widdefield wrote:
"The NYCSHS is no longer Byzantine.  We have made several changes over the last two years and I think you would find that we are now in the business of helping modelers.  Check out our website http://www.nycshs.og/  You will find that we have published several editions of an online NYCentral Modeler magazine and have offered several new NYC models and have several more in the pipeline."
 
Noel, these efforts are certainly steps in the right direction and are defintely appreciated.  However, one of the things that would help the hobby the most is effort directed towards "big picture" projects such as ones that would answer the questions that I asked in my previous posts - what do modelers and manufacturers really need to know about modeling the New York Central System?  These are admittedly not easy projects, and it will take concerted effort by people who know what they are doing to get them right.  Right now, you're only bumping along the edges of the iceberg.  For examples of what I mean, see the Elden Gatwood's articles on gons, Bruce Smith and Elden's articles on flat cars, and my articles on boxcars in earlier issues of The Keystone Modeler, and PRRT&HS flat car and gon books.
 
 
Ben Hom



Re: AUTOMOBILE SHIPMENTS IN BOX CARS IN THE 1950S

Al Campbell
 

Hello: I recall 1957 or 1958 Nash Ramblers arriving at Salem MA in 40' box cars. I don't know the type of loaders that were used but remember that they were stacked 2 over 2. Wondered at the time how the top cars were unloaded. Wish I were more attuned to railroad practices at the time. Regards, Al Campbell 


FW: Lead shot in flat cars

Nelson Moyer <ku0a@...>
 

I meant to say atomic weight, not atomic number.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Nelson Moyer [mailto:ku0a@...]
Sent:
Saturday, October 26, 2013 9:19 PM
To: 'STMFC@...'
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Lead shot in flat cars

 

Look at the periodic table. Zn has an atomic number of 65.38, while Pb has an atomic number of 207.2, so lead is a lot heaver then zinc.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent:
Saturday, October 26, 2013 8:01 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Lead shot in flat cars

 

 


Nice. They have other metals too -- like pure zinc sheet down to .020 thickness. Anyone know how the weight
of zinc sheet compares to lead sheet?

Tim O'Connor

While searching for sheet lead suppliers to weight flat cars, gondolas, and stock cars, I ran across Rotometals in the Bay Area. They stock sheet lead in several thicknesses that are useful for model railroaders, and they sell by the linear foot from 3 ft. wide rolls. I put together the following data:
Nelson Moyer


Re: Lead shot in flat cars

Nelson Moyer <ku0a@...>
 

Look at the periodic table. Zn has an atomic number of 65.38, while Pb has an atomic number of 207.2, so lead is a lot heaver then zinc.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 8:01 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Lead shot in flat cars

 

 


Nice. They have other metals too -- like pure zinc sheet down to .020 thickness. Anyone know how the weight
of zinc sheet compares to lead sheet?

Tim O'Connor

While searching for sheet lead suppliers to weight flat cars, gondolas, and stock cars, I ran across Rotometals in the Bay Area. They stock sheet lead in several thicknesses that are useful for model railroaders, and they sell by the linear foot from 3 ft. wide rolls. I put together the following data:
Nelson Moyer


Re: Lead shot in flat cars

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

    These materials are used as non toxic materials for bullets however both are expensive,  [bismuth and tungsten].   Bismuth is just a little heaver and tungsten is 1.7 to 1 of lead.  Both are hard to work.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Most needed car? (Seley hoopers)

Earl Tuson
 

Ray Breyer says,

The D&H and SAL cars seem to be unique to those roads,
The 100 B&M cars (5900-5999, SSC 1905) appear to have been diverted from a D&H order to the New England road.
The cars were identical, and the builder's photo shows a D&H car number that never appeared in the ORER. B&M class
cards even identify them as "D&H hopper gondola cars."

Earl Tuson

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