Date   

Re: New Decals available: NYC and NKP double sheathed boxcars

Ray Breyer
 

Hi Rob,

>Thanks for posting these links Ray. 
>Can you clarify one point (I model 1946) – it appears that the only series
>of cars that were still running in 1946 are the first group – the NKP10000-
>10999 cars?  If I am reading your note and the web page correctly, the
>others were no longer in service after 1941 (or earlier).

Not quite. All of these cars, in some capacity (including the short double door auto boxcars) were in service through WWII. The NKP cars all dropped off the roster by 1949, but a few stragglers survived on the NYCS rosters until 1952 (and in the case of roofless coke cars, until 1955 or so).

My NKP decals will cover the entire service life of those cars, but won't for the NYC sets. I had a choice to make: either make a single car set to cover one road name for its entire service life, or make each set good for multiple car types, but for a narrower time span. I went with the latter choice, because these decals were primarily made for me and my 1920s/1930s modeling friends!  :-)

Now, you CAN use the NYC decal sets for 1930s-1950s service, but you'll have to change the dimensional data. The old Herald King early boxcar data sets are perfect for that (or the Rail Graphics "generic" data set if you can't find the HK decals)


>Second question: modelling that series of cars is accomplished by doing a
>kitbash like Dave is doing?
>Rob Kirkham    

Like what Dave and I are doing! Here's a link to a few cars that I've done:


We're using the newer, all-plastic Roundhouse reefer kits as a starting point, because dimensionally they're very close, because the body core and underframe make for a VERY solid basic platform, and because we found them cheap!

The conversion is straightforward: scrape off the reefer hinges and replace basically everything but the sides. Our roofs are scratched, the underframes for the 10000's are cut down Accurail fishbelly sills, and the ends are those 3D printed ends cast in resin for mass application. A SLIGHTLY simpler conversion is adding our new ends onto the F&C NYC short boxcar kits, but the roof and ends mate on those in a strange way, and our Roundhouse conversions are actually less of a headache!

For earlier, 1906-built NKP and NYC cars I'm scratching "replacement steel" straight sill underframes with integral beams and queenposts. Dave was brave and scratched a Chicago-Cleveland roof for one of his cars, which is something that I need to do also (for now, I'm sticking with Hutchins and Murphy roofs).

If you're REALLY interested in these conversions, I'll have a modeling article for them to the NKPHTS in a few months. The article will include one of the short auto cars, which is waiting for me to letter with home brew dry transfers.

Hope this helps!
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL



 


Re: AUTOMOBILE SHIPMENTS IN BOX CARS IN THE 19teens

water.kresse@...
 

The bodies were hung vertically.

 

Al Kresse


From: "Robert"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 1:15:08 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: AUTOMOBILE SHIPMENTS IN BOX CARS IN THE 19teens

Good eye Jonathan.  I hadn’t figured that out.

There are a few shots showing auto assembly at that location taken it appears at the same time.  In one is a GN double door car.  Only speculation, but this may be the interior of that car.  Or of another car . . . .

Rob

From: Jonathan McConathy
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 7:28 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: AUTOMOBILE SHIPMENTS IN BOX CARS IN THE 19teens




Rob Kirkham wrote:

>No.CVA 1376-134 taken (it says) in 1919, showing (I speculate) model T

>chassis suspended by loading devices in an automobile boxcar. I hope this

>link works:



>

>Otherwise, go to the search page and

>search by the photo number.

 

>Wish I could read a car number inside those doors.

 

 

Hello Rob,

 

Very interesting period shot!  The photo is upside down. You can tell when you flip it and note the roof’s carlines.

 

Jonathan McConathy

 





Re: Tank swapping

Richard Townsend
 

Richard,
 
Thanks for the response.  Message received.
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


Re: Tank swapping

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Oct 25, 2013, at 11:16 AM, richtownsend@... wrote:

 

Just curious: how similar is the 6,000 gallon tank on the GATX Type 30 three-dome tank car to the 6,000 gallon three-dome tank that would be on either an ACF Type 27 or 21 frame? 

The AC&F Type 27 6K three compartment tanks were, if not identical, certainly very similar, and shortening the IM Type 27 underframe (along with improving the details, which are a bit lame) should be a relatively easy kit-bash. Photos of Type 21 three compartment tanks are rare, but the few I have show them with smaller domes and safeties on side-mounted elbows.

And how similar is the 8,000 or 10,000 gallon tank on either the ACF Type 27 or 21 tank car to 8,000 or 10,000 gallon tank that would be on an GATX Type 30 frame?

Type 21 tanks are quite different, but Type 27 tanks are very similar to GATX Type 30 tanks.  However, I'd wait to see whether Tangent produces models of the GATC Type 30 8K and 10K ICC-103s.



Richard Hendrickson



Re: Express Refrigerator Car

Richard Hendrickson
 


On Oct 25, 2013, at 7:01 PM, mrprksr <mrprksr@...> wrote:

 

Railway Express Agency...some cars were sold off to San Luis Central....Larry Mennie

Well, that's not exactly wrong but leaves out a lot of information about the history of these cars.  They were built in 1953 by the Santa Fe and leased to REA as part of the Santa Fe's contribution to the REA fleet.  By 1969, the bottom having dropped out of the express business, REA returned the surviving cars to the Santa Fe, which repainted them as SFRD cars and reclassified them RR-93.  Later a few RR-93s were sold to the San Luis Central.  Thus, though the cars were operated by REA under lease, they were always owned by the Santa Fe and it was the Santa Fe, not REA, that sold them to the SLC.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Athearn Blue Box boxcar -- prototype?

Benjamin Hom
 

Alex Schneider asked:
"Since you recommend replacing the door, it doesn't seem that I am tied to prototypes having a 6 foot Youngstown door. If I relax that constraint do I add other prototypes?"
 
You would think so, but the square corner end is the big constraint to matching other prototypes.  Far more Modified 1937 AAR boxcar were built with the rounded corner 5/5 Dreadnaught ends.  You could, as Tim suggested, cut off the Athearn ends and replace them with the Detail Associates ends done for the Athearn model, but you start hitting the point of diminishing returns pretty quickly where buying an Intermountain kit and Red Caboose rectangular panel roof becomes a better starting point (unless there's a pressing need to use the Athearn models that you have on hand).
 
As for door width, even if you can find prototypes with the square corner end, there are very few 10 ft 6 in IH cars with opening widths other than 6 ft - two series of EJ&E cars with 8 ft door widths, but these had rounded corner ends.
 
Now if you expand this to Automobile boxcars, it does open things up for a few more prototypes. IC 166500-166999 is the closest as it also has 5/5 square corner Dreadnaught ends; WM 30100-30199 is another possibility but has 4/5 square corner Dreadnaught ends and Duryea cushion underframe.   
 
 
"Of the three you mention, IC was the most numerous and the one most likely to be seen on NYC. How would I find the correct number series? I do have a register and I know that the length was 40' IH was 10'4", and 6' doors, but there seem to be seven groups of boxcars with those attributes: 17000 thru 20999 (3 groups), 28000 thru 30999 (4 groups). The first three were 80,000 lbs. and the remainder 100,000 lbs. I assume that the differences in capacity do not relate to any visible differences on a model."
 
This summary by Ed Hawkins will give you more information on the IC cars and the other Modified 1937 AAR boxcar prototypes:
http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/mod37aarpdfmain.html
Differences in capacity is related to journal size/bearing capacity for the trucks and would not show any visible differences on a model.
 

"This morning I stripped the lettering, and took a closer look at the underbody. The brake components have to go as there is no way the brake cylinder can point at the brake wheel."
 
This is the drawing misinterpretation that keeps giving at Athearn.  The person cutting the tooling misinterpreted the point of view of the drawing as looking upward at the underbody.  It was actually the opposite - looking down at the top of the underbody.  As a result, this mistake is repeated through almost all of the house cars in the "traditional" Athearn line.  
 
 
"I will probably replace the weight as steel weights give problems with uncoupling magnets. I will also replace the wheels."
 
If you're doing the IC cars, I'd replace the trucks too with either the P2K National B-1 or the Accurail "Bettendorf" truck depending on the car series.  The old Athearn "Bettendorf" truck is a representation of the ASF A-3 Ride Control truck but the tooling is very long in the tooth and there are much better trucks available today.
 
 
Ben Hom


New Decals available: NYC and NKP double sheathed boxcars

Robert kirkham
 

Thanks for posting these links Ray. 
 
Can you clarify one point (I model 1946) – it appears that the only series of cars that were still running in 1946 are the first group – the NKP10000-10999 cars?  If I am reading your note and the web page correctly, the others were no longer in service after 1941 (or earlier).
 
Second question: modelling that series of cars is accomplished by doing a kitbash like Dave is doing?
 
Rob Kirkham    

From: Ray Breyer
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 8:03 AM
Subject: [STMFC] New Decals available: NYC and NKP double sheathed boxcars
 



Hi everyone,

All this talk about "most needed cars" reminds me of something. Sometimes, as modelers we do need to "roll our own" to get what we want on our layouts.

In that vein a friend and I have started producing our own decals. Based on the excellent artwork of Dr. David Campbell and printed by Rail Graphics, these decals are as accurate as possible for their specific prototypes. As Dave and I are pre-Depression modelers, the decal sheets are all for cars of that era.

As of now, we have ten different decal sets available:

--NKP 10000-10999 series 38' double sheathed boxcars (one car, all paint schemes 1916-1950)
--NKP 25000-29299 series 38' double sheathed boxcars (one car, all paint schemes 1906-1941)
--NYC&HR, NYC and MC 38' double sheathed boxcars and auto boxcars (one or two cars, 1910-1930s paint schemes, lots 201-, 220-, 246- and 286-B)
--NYC, B&A, Big Four and P&LE 38' double sheathed boxcars (one or two cars, 1912-1930s paint schemes, lots 275-, 287-, 292- and 298-B. Replacement for F&C decal sets on their NYC cars, plus others)
--NKP 30000-30749 series 30' composite twin hoppers (two car set, 1918-1930 paint scheme)
--NKP 99000-99449 series 32' USRA twin hoppers (two car set, 1924-1930 paint scheme)
(plus four NKP steam engine sets that are outside the scope of this list!)

Please see this link for a PDF showing the decals, prototype photos, and ordering information:
http://www.hansmanns.org/ycf_decal_sets_20130928.pdf

And see this link for the NYC decals as used on models:
http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2013/10/14/virtual-rpm-meet-1/#more-497
(EXCELLENT modeling by Harold Oakhill)

The NKP boxcar decals can be seen used on models here:
http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2012/10/22/dave-builds-some-box-cars/#more-164

Each decal set is $6, with $1 shipping for any sized order (USA and Canada only!).
Please contact me OFF LIST if you're interested!

Regards,
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL

(PS: and speaking of rolling our own, to see where we got the steel ends for some of these NYC/NKP boxcars, which have never before been available, see here: http://www.shapeways.com/designer/drdavec )

 


Re: AUTOMOBILE SHIPMENTS IN BOX CARS IN THE 19teens

Robert kirkham
 

Good eye Jonathan.  I hadn’t figured that out.
 
There are a few shots showing auto assembly at that location taken it appears at the same time.  In one is a GN double door car.  Only speculation, but this may be the interior of that car.  Or of another car . . . .
 
Rob
 

Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 7:28 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: AUTOMOBILE SHIPMENTS IN BOX CARS IN THE 19teens
 


Rob Kirkham wrote:

>No.CVA 1376-134 taken (it says) in 1919, showing (I speculate) model T

>chassis suspended by loading devices in an automobile boxcar. I hope this

>link works:

>

>Otherwise, go to the search page and

>search by the photo number.

 

>Wish I could read a car number inside those doors.

 

 

Hello Rob,

 

Very interesting period shot!  The photo is upside down. You can tell when you flip it and note the roof’s carlines.

 

Jonathan McConathy

 


Re: AUTOMOBILE SHIPMENTS IN BOX CARS IN THE 19teens

George Eichelberger
 

Although the book covering Southern Railway automobile box cars of the teens will not be finished until some time next year. The first of two volumes covering Southern’s 50’ all steel box cars (1938-1962) has been available from SRHA for some time. It includes a lot (!) of information about the Southern’s cars used to ship finished autos, auto bodies and auto parts. While the cars it describes are all Southern Railway, the shippers parts and assembly plants discussed are all over the country. A third book for box cars larger than 50’ will include information on all the SR and CofG’s 60 and 85 ft auto parts cars.

The Southern and Central of Georgia were very active in the business because of the Ford and GM assembly plants in Atlanta. A very high proportion of the railroads’ box cars used in auto services were operated as pools assigned to a particular auto company or a specific assembly or parts location. The equipment pools were typically based on the total number of cars needed and the mileage proportion that pool would run on each participating railroad. Shipments were usually routed over the pool members’ railroads even though other routing may have been available. Ford, GM and Chrysler had their own specifications so cars were quite often specially equipped and did not move between pools or routes. In some cases, the different specifications were no more than the types of DF equipment the cars were “complimented” with. If Ford had a certain number and type of parts bins they loaded from a parts plant, the DF equipment had to match that load. Some cars had permanent interior ends installed to make them the correct I.L. for a fixed number of bins. Other cars had special modifications that prevented them from being used for other shipments. Cars carrying assembled instrument panels may have had different spring groups that de-rated their capacity to make for a smoother ride.

Auto parts from suppliers sometimes had their own pools, or cars assigned from the origination railroad. The Southern had a large number of 100-ton capacity cars assigned to Chattanooga, TN just to carry brake drums cast there to the big three auto plants. The carpet factories around Dalton, GA had cars assigned to ship floor coverings they produced for auto and truck plants.

The 40’ box car book is out of print but PDFs of the index and one section of the 50’ book are on the web at http://srha.net/public/grab/item_detail.asp?id=332.

George Eichelberger


Re: Athearn Blue Box boxcar -- prototype?

Alexander Schneider Jr
 

Ben,

Since you recommend replacing the door, it doesn't seem that I am tied to prototypes having a 6 foot Youngstown door. If I relax that constraint do I add other prototypes?

Of the three you mention, IC was the most numerous and the one most likely to be seen on NYC. How would I find the correct number series? I do have a register and I know that the length was 40' IH was 10'4", and 6' doors, but there seem to be seven groups of boxcars with those attributes: 17000 thru 20999 (3 groups), 28000 thru 30999 (4 groups). The first three were 80,000 lbs. and the remainder 100,000 lbs. I assume that the differences in capacity do not relate to any visible differences on a model.

This morning I stripped the lettering, and took a closer look at the underbody. The brake components have to go as there is no way the brake cylinder can point at the brake wheel. I will probably replace the weight as steel weights give problems with uncoupling magnets. I will also replace the wheels.

Thanks to all who contributed their knowledge.

Alex Schneider

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, <destorzek@...> wrote:




---In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, <stmfc@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Alex Schneider asked:
"The Athearn 40' boxcar appears generally similar to 1937 AAR box cars, but was it modeled based on a specific road?"

Strictly speaking, the combination of details (5/5 square corner Dreadnaught ends, rectangular panel roof, 6 ft Youngstown door) matches only three roads: IC, Soo, DSS&A.
http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/408/29872/august-1996-page-6 http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/408/29872/august-1996-page-6
http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/410/30018/october-1996-page-8 http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/410/30018/october-1996-page-8

Ben Hom

Also, "5 Boxcar Improvements" in the April, 1982 issue of RMC.

When everything you and Ben discussed is done, there is still the matter of the edges of the roof, which I didn't address. At that time, the MDC boxcar and AHM PS-1 both copied the strange angle of the roof edges, so they all sort of blended in. Now, no one does their roofs that way. In addition, Athearn had problems with the parts sticking in the mold for about three or four decades, so it is rare to find an Athearn "blue box" 40 footer with all the rivets intact along both edges of the roof.

Dennis Storzek


New Decals available: NYC and NKP double sheathed boxcars

Ray Breyer
 


 Hi everyone,

All this talk about "most needed cars" reminds me of something. Sometimes, as modelers we do need to "roll our own" to get what we want on our layouts.

In that vein a friend and I have started producing our own decals. Based on the excellent artwork of Dr. David Campbell and printed by Rail Graphics, these decals are as accurate as possible for their specific prototypes. As Dave and I are pre-Depression modelers, the decal sheets are all for cars of that era.

As of now, we have ten different decal sets available:

--NKP 10000-10999 series 38' double sheathed boxcars (one car, all paint schemes 1916-1950)
--NKP 25000-29299 series 38' double sheathed boxcars (one car, all paint schemes 1906-1941)
--NYC&HR, NYC and MC 38' double sheathed boxcars and auto boxcars (one or two cars, 1910-1930s paint schemes, lots 201-, 220-, 246- and 286-B)
--NYC, B&A, Big Four and P&LE 38' double sheathed boxcars (one or two cars, 1912-1930s paint schemes, lots 275-, 287-, 292- and 298-B. Replacement for F&C decal sets on their NYC cars, plus others)
--NKP 30000-30749 series 30' composite twin hoppers (two car set, 1918-1930 paint scheme)
--NKP 99000-99449 series 32' USRA twin hoppers (two car set, 1924-1930 paint scheme)
(plus four NKP steam engine sets that are outside the scope of this list!)

Please see this link for a PDF showing the decals, prototype photos, and ordering information:
http://www.hansmanns.org/ycf_decal_sets_20130928.pdf

And see this link for the NYC decals as used on models:
http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2013/10/14/virtual-rpm-meet-1/#more-497
(EXCELLENT modeling by Harold Oakhill)

The NKP boxcar decals can be seen used on models here:
http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2012/10/22/dave-builds-some-box-cars/#more-164

Each decal set is $6, with $1 shipping for any sized order (USA and Canada only!).
Please contact me OFF LIST if you're interested!

Regards,
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL

(PS: and speaking of rolling our own, to see where we got the steel ends for some of these NYC/NKP boxcars, which have never before been available, see here: http://www.shapeways.com/designer/drdavec )



Re: AUTOMOBILE SHIPMENTS IN BOX CARS IN THE 19teens

joth1930s
 

Rob Kirkham wrote:

>No.CVA 1376-134 taken (it says) in 1919, showing (I speculate) model T

>chassis suspended by loading devices in an automobile boxcar. I hope this

>link works:

>Otherwise, go to the search page and

>search by the photo number.

 

>Wish I could read a car number inside those doors.

 

 

Hello Rob,

 

Very interesting period shot!  The photo is upside down. You can tell when you flip it and note the roof’s carlines.

 

Jonathan McConathy

 


Re: Most needed car? (Seley hoopers)

Todd Horton
 

C of Ga    < The Central didn't have these.
 
Todd Horton


On Saturday, October 26, 2013 9:43 AM, Ray Breyer wrote:
 
>The problem we face with such a prototype is that Seley hoppers were a
>style of construction rather a single design like say USRA cars were. No two
>designs were sufficiently alike for me to see much commonality in tooling

>between the various roads that had them.
>Aidrian

Hi guys,

I've been interested in Seley hoppers for a while, since like 36' double sheathed boxcars and all-wood gons, they're something that the average pre-Depression era modeler needs a few of. Aidrian's right though: in general, there were several different varieties of these hoppers running around, which makes marketing a model of them difficult.

But there weren't ALL that many types. I need to do an in-depth examination of the car type, but just by looking at the data that I could find last night, they can be broken down into four general "types": D&H, N&W, Southern and SAL, The D&H and SAL cars seem to be unique to those roads, but in general, the N&W and Southern cars were copied by everyone else. Details and dimensions changed, but the overall "look" of the vast bulk of these cars mostly fall under those types.

As a topic-stretcher, here's what I was able to come up with as a quick & dirty Seley hopper roster last night:

AB&A - 250 (to ACL)
B&O - 3000
B&M - 100
Berwind-White Coal Mining Co. - (unknown)
C&O - (unknown)
Coal & Coke Co. - 275
Cumberland & Pennsylvania - 1500
Deepwater - 500 (to Virginian)
D&H - (unknown; thousands)
Fairmont Coal Co - 1700 (to B&O)
GB&W - 25 (from Virginian)
Island Creek Coal Co. - 200
L&HR - 500
L&N - 250
M&O - (unknown; to GM&O)
NC&StL - (unknown)
Norfolk Southern - 50
NYO&W - 1350
N&W - (unknown; thousands)
RI - 250
Sandy Creek Coal Co. - 300
SLSF - 500
SAL - 300
Southern - 4,600 (also AGS and CNO&TP)
TStL&W - 45 (to NKP)

And here's a few railroads thay MAY have had Seley-type hoppers, but which will require a bit more digging:
Buffalo & Susquehanna
C of Ga
C&O
GN
These roads may well have had all wood cars that at a glance "kinda sorta" look like Seleys (by definition, a Seley hopper has to have steel channel outside bracing).

Hope this helps,

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL

(as a personal preference, I'd be happy with styrene models of the modified D&H Seleys and with the N&W's HG or HH class cars. Those two have the best chance of selling to the Great Unwashed, and cover the largest groups of cars)



Re: Most needed car? (Seley hoopers)

Ray Breyer
 

The problem we face with such a prototype is that Seley hoppers were a
style of construction rather a single design like say USRA cars were. No two
designs were sufficiently alike for me to see much commonality in tooling
between the various roads that had them.
Aidrian

Hi guys,


I've been interested in Seley hoppers for a while, since like 36' double sheathed boxcars and all-wood gons, they're something that the average pre-Depression era modeler needs a few of. Aidrian's right though: in general, there were several different varieties of these hoppers running around, which makes marketing a model of them difficult.

But there weren't ALL that many types. I need to do an in-depth examination of the car type, but just by looking at the data that I could find last night, they can be broken down into four general "types": D&H, N&W, Southern and SAL, The D&H and SAL cars seem to be unique to those roads, but in general, the N&W and Southern cars were copied by everyone else. Details and dimensions changed, but the overall "look" of the vast bulk of these cars mostly fall under those types.

As a topic-stretcher, here's what I was able to come up with as a quick & dirty Seley hopper roster last night:

AB&A - 250 (to ACL)
B&O - 3000
B&M - 100
Berwind-White Coal Mining Co. - (unknown)
C&O - (unknown)
Coal & Coke Co. - 275
Cumberland & Pennsylvania - 1500
Deepwater - 500 (to Virginian)
D&H - (unknown; thousands)
Fairmont Coal Co - 1700 (to B&O)
GB&W - 25 (from Virginian)
Island Creek Coal Co. - 200
L&HR - 500
L&N - 250
M&O - (unknown; to GM&O)
NC&StL - (unknown)
Norfolk Southern - 50
NYO&W - 1350
N&W - (unknown; thousands)
RI - 250
Sandy Creek Coal Co. - 300
SLSF - 500
SAL - 300
Southern - 4,600 (also AGS and CNO&TP)
TStL&W - 45 (to NKP)

And here's a few railroads thay MAY have had Seley-type hoppers, but which will require a bit more digging:
Buffalo & Susquehanna
C of Ga
C&O
GN
These roads may well have had all wood cars that at a glance "kinda sorta" look like Seleys (by definition, a Seley hopper has to have steel channel outside bracing).

Hope this helps,

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL

(as a personal preference, I'd be happy with styrene models of the modified D&H Seleys and with the N&W's HG or HH class cars. Those two have the best chance of selling to the Great Unwashed, and cover the largest groups of cars)


Re: Athearn Blue Box boxcar -- prototype?

Tim O'Connor
 

Alex, one other thing -- Detail Associates made replacement 5/5 ends
specifically for this model, and they are beautiful when applied. You
can apply them two ways, either use or don't use the supplied rivet
seam. That's as far as I go -- I hate trying to scrape cast on ladders
from the end of a car.

Tim O'Connor

"Recognizing the problem with cast on ladders and grab irons, what improvements can be made at reasonable cost and effort?"

If you choose to avoid doing the end ladders:
- Replace oversized running board, brakewheel, and sill steps with finer parts.
- Remove door tracks, fill in void left by upper door track, and replace door tracks with strip styrene. Replace door with full height door (Intermountain).
- Remove and replace grab irons.
- Rework underframe to correct incorrect brake arrangement.

See "Crown Jewel from the Junkbox" in the April 1994 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman by Jim Fuhrman and Greg Martin and the following article by Martin Lofton in the January 1991 issue of Railmodel Journal for more details on the upgrades.
http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/57/4078/january-1991-page-30

Ben Hom


Re: Athearn Blue Box boxcar -- prototype?

Tim O'Connor
 

Alex, besides what others have said...

A major improvement in appearance, IMO, is to construct the car with
the weight on the inside of the car, and the floorboards facing down.
Paint the floor a wood color and weather the underframe before putting
them together. Also cut off the horrible Athearn draft gear and replace
with a Kadee 252 box if you're using #5 couplers or a 262 box for whisker
couplers. I use a Kadee plastic 2-56 screw to hold the draft gear, which
is applied BEFORE the weight is applied. I cut the screw off flush and
only then apply the weight. Cut the 'wings' off the floor too, as they
are intended to sit in the doorway.

I've also used Accurail's 40 foot box car floor as a replacement, and
it works, and looks fine, but that will cost you an extra buck or two.

If I were building an IC, SOO or DSS&A model, I'd make all those other
changes that were suggested, like replacing the doors and correcting the
brake gear and applying a nice running board. But every other roadname
is a foobie, so it's not worth the trouble or cost.

Tim O'Connor

The Athearn 40' boxcar appears generally similar to 1937 AAR box cars, but was it modeled based on a specific road?

Recognizing the problem with cast on ladders and grab irons, what improvements can be made at reasonable cost and effort?

Thanks.

Alex Schneider


AUTOMOBILE SHIPMENTS IN BOX CARS IN THE 19teens

Robert kirkham
 

Just offering another photo link that may be of interest to some. This is another of the nice high res shots of the City of Vancouver Archives, photo No.CVA 1376-134 taken (it says) in 1919, showing (I speculate) model T chassis suspended by loading devices in an automobile boxcar. I hope this link works:
<http://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/view-of-auto-assembly-plant-interior;rad>

Otherwise, go to the search page <http://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/> and search by the photo number.

Wish I could read a car number inside those doors.

Rob Kirkham


Re: Most needed car?

Mark Stamm
 

Ben

I will in the future be more precise.  Still "exceeding 20,000" could include 28,000.

Regards,
Mark

Mark P Stamm

Sent from my mobile device

On Oct 25, 2013, at 8:09 PM, Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:

 

Mark Stamm wrote:
"This brings up an interesting question or questions what makes a specific freight car design a must have? Total number built, length of service, a unique characteristic. There some signature freight cars that meet all three of these criteria, but take away one and the numbers grow dramatically."
 
The number of prototypes grow dramatically, but the business case that you can pitch to a manufacturer weakens just as dramatically.
 
 
"So what should the standard be, 1000 cars built in total or for one road, more than 25 years of service and how do you classify unique?"
 
Your first two criteria aren't very good ones.
- The significance of 1,000 cars depends on the railroad and type of car.  1,000 boxcars is significant for a freight car fleet the size of the Lehigh Valley, on the PRR or NYC it's a drop in the bucket.
- More than 25 years of service is irrelevant if the quantity isn't there.  For example, the one-off PRR Class X30 70 ft 6 in IL boxcar (built in 1931) hauled fire engines from American LaFrance for almost 40 years, surviving long enough to be painted not only in Plain Keystone but Penn Central as well.  However, selling this to a manufacturer to do in styrene is a complete non-starter.
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=X30
 
As for uniqueness, to paraphrase Justice Stewart, modelers know it when they see it.  For example, the B&O Class M-53 and M-53A "Wagontop" boxcars actually totaled only 3,000 cars, far fewer than the more numerous Class M-26 and subclass proposed 1923 ARA steel boxcars.
 
 
"Lets consider some examples.
One car that IMO covers all three categories is the LV Wrong Way Boxcar. Over the course of 20-25 years the LV had more than 2000 of this car in two different number series. To date this car has only been done in resin. Should it get it's chance in plastic?"
 
Sure, if you find a manufacturer willing to commit to this car (thing Rapido Steam Generator cars).  However, it's tough to build a business case for this prototype - a single prototype car from a railroad with a limited following.  Manufacturers can make money from single road cars - that's a large chunk of Bowser's line - but probably not this one.  Sure, you can paint it in a bunch of different schemes like Trix did with their UP cars a decade ago (look at how well that turned out), but it's much easier to sell a prototype if you can show a wider potential market. 
 
 
"Another would be the PRR X29 from 1930 past the end of this list the X29 was around in numbers exceeding 20,000 cars. You may not call it unique but the fact that a designed based on the 1923 ARA model with 8'6" inside height survived end as long as it did could be unique in and of itself.  It has been done by Red Caboose and in resin to cover most of the variations this car went through. Did the X29 have mass appeal or just mass?"
 
Please get your X29 facts straight!
- Built 1924-1934.
- Total quantities exceeded 28,000 cars.
- 8 ft 7 in IH for Class X29 AND the 1923 proposed ARA standard steel boxcar.
- The 1923 proposed ARA standard steel boxcar was based on the X29, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
 
As for mass appeal or mass, play "find the X29" with yard and train photos.  I think you'll find far more of them than the LV cars in your other example. 
 
 
Ben Hom


Re: Most needed car? (Seley hoopers)

Steve and Barb Hile
 

For what it might be worth, the Rock Island had 250 Seley hoppers, 89750 – 89999, but they were gone before WWII.

 

Steve Hile

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 10:17 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Most needed car? (Seley hoopers)

 

 

Steve 

 

The photos get stripped - please do upload these to the photos section so we can see them

 

The problem we face with such a prototype is that Seley hoopers were a style of construction rather a single design like say USRA cars were. No two designs were sufficiently alike for me to see much commonality in tooling between the various roads that had them.

 

I don't regard myself as knowledgeable about the Frisco cars except to know they had some.

 

SOU had three different designs, each slightly different. The version that lasted longest (into the 1960s) is the 1920s built cars offered by F&C in resin, but making the early cars from these would involve some quite extensive kit-bashing - for example some had wooden ends rather than steel. These are nice little kits and a good introduction to building flat pack hoppers. F&C also do some D&H cars.

 

I presume the M&O cars had common origins with some of the SOU cars, but haven't looked into them at this stage. M&O was controlled by Southern until the 1930s and some locomotives passenger and freight cars were built to Southern designs. For example the modified USRA light 2-8-2s were built to the same design as the AGS and CNOTP versions , and of course there were 36- and 40-foot SU boxcars and a few 66 foot passenger cars as modeled by Rivarossi.  

 

Aidrian

 

 

On 26/10/2013, at 12:25 PM, Steve H wrote:



 

 

Hey Ben,

 

In my original post I included photos of some of these cars so I don't know if you saw them or not.

 

Railroads that I know of that had Seley hoppers: N&W, SRR, M&O, Frisco, D&H.

 

 

 


Re: Athearn Blue Box boxcar -- prototype?

Tony Thompson
 

Benjamin Hom wrote:

"Recognizing the problem with cast on ladders and grab irons, what improvements can be made at reasonable cost and effort?"
 
If you choose to avoid doing the end ladders:
- Replace oversized running board, brakewheel, and sill steps with finer parts.
- Remove door tracks, fill in void left by upper door track, and replace door tracks with strip styrene.  Replace door with full height door (Intermountain).
- Remove and replace grab irons.
- Rework underframe to correct incorrect brake arrangement.

   Good list. The first one is most important, as all these aspects are VERY visible. I might add that the brake step can be widened with a piece of 2 x 4 styrene to look better. I would say the fifth step can be skipped if you wish, as the underbody is pretty invisible. On step two, I would say removing door "claws" is most important, followed by removing the huge ledge making up the bottom door track. If you take off that ledge, you can add a full height door, which looks far better.
     But with all the FAR better models out there today, why do this work? "Saving" a $3 car seems kind of wasted effort to me.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
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