Date   
Re: Roof for ARLX (Armour) reefer ~1700 series?

Ed Hawkins
 


On Nov 22, 2013, at 12:44 PM, <wcfn100@...> <wcfn100@...> wrote:

Does anyone have or know of information about the style or name of the roof on this series of cars.  I can't find a picture to link to, but it's panels' have two reinforcements running next to each other (as opposed to the large single Murphy type panel).

The CGW got some of the these for ice service and I'd like to try and model one.

Sorry for the vagueness, but I can't find any good pictures.

Jason

Jason,
I published an article about the ARLX 1-2000 series refrigerator cars in Railway Prototype Cyclopedia Volume 21. It included overhead photos and ACF drawings that depict the "depressed twin-panel roof" used on these cars. A roof using the same panel design was also on some ACF box cars published in RP CYC Volume 26. 

You're correct about the roof sheets having parallel corrugations. They were somewhat similar to, but different than, some box cars built by Depatch Shops and also on some Milwaukee Road rib-side box cars. The main difference is the area between the twin corrugations in which there is a tapered middle section that's difficult to describe. At a point near the edge of the roof, the middle section is slightly higher than the adjacent raised corrugations, and from there the middle section gradually tapers to its lowest point at the car center line under the running board.

RP CYC Volume 21 is sold out at the publisher but may be available from a dealer. Volume 26 is currently available. 

Regards,
Ed Hawkins

Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: Opening End Door Boxcars (UNCLASSIFIED)

Guy Wilber
 

Eldon wrote:
 
 
"The floor tubes, that held the chains, for the auto loaders (only), looked like a big pipe with a base plate on it, that stuck down through the floor of the car about 8-12 inches (they vary). They are very visible on cars that had Evans loaders and the like."
 
 
It seems to be a common misconception that the floor tubes held just a chain.  In actuality, the floor tube was used to store the patented Evans tie down assembly which was a spring loaded, turnbuckle device that was nearly 16"  in length.   The spring assembly was used on the floor as well as the loader and allowed vehicles to be held in a semi-rigid position.  Attached to the main floor assemblies was a 5'-8 1/4"  length of chain (as per Evans' standards) used to secure motor vehicles within auto cars.  Depending on the type of loader and the length of the auto car extensions were often added to the chain allowing greater flexibility while positioning and securing vehicles to the floor of auto car.   
 
In order to accommodate the tie down assembly, the minimum length of any floor tube was 19 inches and the maximum length was 28 inches.  All round tubes were 5 inches in diameter and oval tubes were 5 by 6 inches.  The hinged cap assembly on original tube assemblies was a cast brass fitting which (thru time) failed under stress and all subsequent designs (Type "B" thru "F", circa 1934-39) were replaced with forged metal caps. 
 
During the annual modifications or complete replacements of loaders, done in order to accommodate the newest model year offerings from manufacturers, the original tube assemblies were altered to employ the new forged components.  If an earlier model of loader was replaced, it was also common to relocate some, or all, of the floor tubes.  Much of this work was contracted to Evans' own shops or in railroad shops which purchased the parts from Evans.       
 
I am not sure what is meant by, "And the like."  Only two designs of auto loaders were used by the railroads; the Evans Auto~Loader and the two designs of NYC Loaders.  The early New York Central design used a tie down system which resembled snow tire chains to secure vehicles on both the floor and the rack assembly (loader).  These were unreliable and chaffed vehicle tires, thus workers were forced to wrap tires with hemp or cloth before securing the vehicles.  This was laborious and a return to pre loader methods which all involved were trying to avoid.  By the late 1930's nearly all early NYC had been converted to Evans tie down assemblies in the same fashion as the second design which incorporated the Evans system (as installed). 
 
Though always listed on the cover page within Bulletin 28, the AAR design of loader was never put into production.  One car was fitted for testing, but the design did not win favor with the railroads or manufacturers and the AAR's project was shelved in 1949.   
 
Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Re: Wabash RY: OB, Door + 3/4, Auto Car, Help

Gary Roe
 

Dave & Ben,
 
As I recall, the drawing that went with that article was not printed to scale, and was reprinted to the correct scale in a later issue; but don't remember which issue, right off the top of my head.
 
gary roe
quincy, illinois


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Benjamin Hom
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 12:48 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Wabash RY: OB, Door + 3/4, Auto Car, Help

 

Dave Sarther asked:
"I am searching for some data and photos about the Wabash 40', single sheathed wood, outside braced, door and 3/4 auto cars from WAB series #45400-45999 built in 1926-27. The data I have found so far is from ORER's from 1937, 1954 and 1955. I would like to supplement this information with some photos of cars from the series to complete a model. I also believe that there was an article about these cars in the Mainline Modeler Nov - Dec 1980 issue, Volume 1 No 5.  If you can help me with either photos or shared information from MM please contact me."
 
http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/wabssautomain.html
 
There is indeed an article by George Drake in the Nov-Dec 1980 issue of Mainline Modeler plus drawings. Usual warning about working from Hundman drawings applies. See also Bill Darnaby's "Building Resin Kits - a Wabash automobile box car" from the February 1993 issue of Mainline Modeler for a construction article on the HO scale Funaro model.  
 
 
Ben Hom
 
P.S.: "Outside Braced" is not an accurate description of these cars and is not supported by any industry literature.

Re: Wabash RY: OB, Door + 3/4, Auto Car, Help

Benjamin Hom
 

Dave Sarther asked:
"I am searching for some data and photos about the Wabash 40', single sheathed wood, outside braced, door and 3/4 auto cars from WAB series #45400-45999 built in 1926-27. The data I have found so far is from ORER's from 1937, 1954 and 1955. I would like to supplement this information with some photos of cars from the series to complete a model. I also believe that there was an article about these cars in the Mainline Modeler Nov - Dec 1980 issue, Volume 1 No 5.  If you can help me with either photos or shared information from MM please contact me."
 
http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/wabssautomain.html
 
There is indeed an article by George Drake in the Nov-Dec 1980 issue of Mainline Modeler plus drawings. Usual warning about working from Hundman drawings applies. See also Bill Darnaby's "Building Resin Kits - a Wabash automobile box car" from the February 1993 issue of Mainline Modeler for a construction article on the HO scale Funaro model.  
 
 
Ben Hom
 
P.S.: "Outside Braced" is not an accurate description of these cars and is not supported by any industry literature.

Roof for ARLX (Armour) reefer ~1700 series?

Jason Kliewer
 

Does anyone have or know of information about the style or name of the roof on this series of cars.  I can't find a picture to link to, but it's panels' have two reinforcements running next to each other (as opposed to the large single Murphy type panel).


The CGW got some of the these for ice service and I'd like to try and model one.

Sorry for the vagueness, but I can't find any good pictures.

Jason

Wabash RY: OB, Door + 3/4, Auto Car, Help

Dave Sarther
 

I am searching for some data and photos about the  Wabash  40',  single sheathed wood, outside braced, door and 3/4  auto cars from WAB  series #45400-45999 built in 1926-27.  The data I have found so far is from ORER's from 1937, 1954 and 1955.  I would like to supplement this information with some photos of cars from the series to complete a model.  I also believe that there was an article about these cars in the Mainline Modeler Nov-Dec 1980 issue, Volume 1 no.5.  If you can help me with either photos or shared information from MM please contact me.

 

Thanks,  Dave Sarther

sartherdj@...

4Sale: NP AAR alternate standard 2-bay hopper

Andy Carlson
 

Hello,

I have 12 Intermountain HO Northern Pacific AAR Alternate standard 2-bay open top hoppers offered for sale. Available in up to 6 different numbers. Intermountain # 47152-(1-6). Pictures are up on the Intermountain web site. In the "as-delivered" all black with fully spelled "NORTHERN PACIFIC"in white. New and built dates of 1-40.  MSRP $38.95, my price is $29.

Shipping of $3.00/car by USPS 1st class air mail. Buy all six numbers and I will ship for $12.85 by Priority Mail. I accept checks and money orders.

Contact me off-list at
-Andy Carlson

Opening End Door Boxcars

Bill Lane
 

Here is 1 of my X33a http://www.lanestrains.com/Boxcar_Photos/PRR_X33a.jpg made in 1996 by Ajin/River Raisin

 

I kept 1 as is with the opening end doors but soldered it SHUT as I do with ALL of my moving doors and opening hatches. Moving doors fall off and scratch paint. Nothing in there to see anyway. I swapped out the opening door end for a plain end to make a more common X32a. http://www.lanestrains.com/Boxcar_Photos/PRR_X32a.jpg

 

Thank You,
Bill Lane

Modeling the Mighty Pennsy & PRSL in 1957 in S Scale since 1987

See my finished models at:
http://www.lanestrains.com
Look at what has been made in PRR in S Scale!

 

See my layout progress at:

http://www.lanestrains.com/My_Layout.htm

Custom Train Parts Design
http://www.lanestrains.com/SolidWorks_Modeling.htm

PRR Builders Photos Bought, Sold & Traded
(Trading is MUCH preferred)
http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRphotos.xls 

***Join the PRR T&HS***
The other members are not ALL like me!
http://www.prrths.com
http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRTHS_Application.pdf

Join the Pennsylvania Reading Seashore Lines Historical Society
It's FREE to join! http://www.prslhs.com 
Preserving The Memory Of The PRSL

 

PRR brass trust plates for sale

Bill Lane
 

Many years ago when I had my brass X29 project I had S Scale brass Trust Plates made as well. I wound up buying them all from my friend that made them for me, and now have a 5x lifetime supply. I could put 6 of them per car for all the PRR cars I still have finish and still have some leftover! You can see them on a car at the bottom of my page here: http://www.lanestrains.com/About_Me.htm

 

So if you are missing this unique detail, and don’t mind they are a little large for HO, or small for O, they are for you. Of course they perfect size for S Scale….

 

They are etched brass, VERY readable and best of all ready to use. There is no trimming or filing needed whatsoever. 4 different trust letters are included in the packages of which there are 2 different packs. They are prepackaged 40 to a pack for $25.00 mailing included in the US via USPS. You have to convince me to ship if you want them outside of the US.

 

Single letter trusts from C to Q + Z were done. If you have a specific letter you want I will see if I can spare a pair of them from the loose stock bags I have.

 

Please reply directly to bill@...  if you are interested in getting some.

 

Thank You,
Bill Lane

Modeling the Mighty Pennsy & PRSL in 1957 in S Scale since 1987

See my finished models at:
http://www.lanestrains.com
Look at what has been made in PRR in S Scale!

 

See my layout progress at:

http://www.lanestrains.com/My_Layout.htm

Custom Train Parts Design
http://www.lanestrains.com/SolidWorks_Modeling.htm

PRR Builders Photos Bought, Sold & Traded
(Trading is MUCH preferred)
http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRphotos.xls 

***Join the PRR T&HS***
The other members are not ALL like me!
http://www.prrths.com
http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRTHS_Application.pdf

Join the Pennsylvania Reading Seashore Lines Historical Society
It's FREE to join! http://www.prslhs.com 
Preserving The Memory Of The PRSL

 

Re: FOR SALE FUNARO #8280 SOUTHERN QUADRUPLE COVERED HOPPER KIT

erict1361@...
 

 Item is SOLD.

 Thank You


 Eric Thur



---In STMFC@..., <erict1361@...> wrote:

I have an Extra F&C #8280 SOUTHERN QUADRUPLE COVERED HOPPER Kit Available, if anyone is interested. I am selling it at the " Buy-One-Get-One-Free" Price of $25.00, Plus $4.00 Shipping. This is the Newly Released "One Piece Body" Covered Hopper kit, I think the First one in Resin Kit form.

 Please Contact me Off List for Photos and Info.

 Thanks,
 Eric Thur

erict1361@...

Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: Opening End Door Boxcars (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Alex;

The PRR X33/A, X38A and X41A numbers varied all over the place, and I suspect it was because they were welding shut end doors, and converting them to other uses, on a random basis. They are not documented well in the ORERs.

PRR was not looking to spend extra money on end doors for cars that did not absolutely need them, so they only put them on less numerous (sub)classes that needed them for something like this (see attached), and where there was end unloading possible. Cars normally got loaded into double door cars with no end doors.

The floor tubes, that held the chains, for the auto loaders (only), looked like a big pipe with a base plate on it, that stuck down through the floor of the car about 8-12 inches (they vary). They are very visible on cars that had Evans loaders and the like. PRR also had 40-foot cars without end doors that had floor tubes, as well as other classes....but you were asking about end door cars.

The X30 I mentioned did not have floor tubes as far as I know. I don't see them in photos.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Alex Schneider
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 3:57 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [STMFC] Opening End Door Boxcars



Very interesting. Are any photos of the interior of such cars available on line? I'm trying to figure out what "floor
tubes" look like.

This tabulation is referred to as AAR Bulletin No. 28. The heading of this bulleting indicates that it covers XAR and
XMR types, which apparently differ in that the former were not lined and were not suitable for general loading while the
latter were lines and suitable for general loading. However the table does not indicate which type applied to a
particular group of cars.

Most of the cars listed had auto racks, some had end doors, and a few had both.

Alex Schneider

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 12:32 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Opening End Door Boxcars

If you look in the Official Railway Equipment Register there is an appendix of "Serial Numbers & Description of
Automobile Cars Equipped With Auto Racks" -- Now, this is not a complete list of all end-door equipped box cars, but
there is a column for "Width of End Doors" and scanning down that column you can tell which railroad box car number
series (with auto racks) had end doors.

In 1953 the list is ATSF, CP, CB&Q, CRI&P, ERIE, LV, NYC, SLSF, and SOU. I know this is definitely not a complete list,
because C&O, CN, IC, MKT, MP, NKP, SP, UP, WABASH and WP had end-door box cars too.

Tim O'Connor

------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links





Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Re: Nitric acid tank car

Storey Lindsay
 

That's OK Richard. I'm glad to get to see them.



Best regards,



Storey Lindsay

Celje, Slovenia



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Richard Hendrickson
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 22:27
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Nitric acid tank car








Sorry, guys, I inadvertently sent this to the list rather than off-list to
Jim.

On Nov 21, 2013, at 1:11 PM, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
wrote:







On Nov 17, 2013, at 11:50 AM, Jim Barnes <atsfjim2000@...> wrote:






Thanks for giving the picture link hours to Paolo. Richard, I would love to
see the Du Pont version. Thank you.
Jim Barnes



Here you are, Jim, along with a photo of one of the UTLX cars with
"ventilated" jacketing.



Richard Hendrickson



<GATX 31001.JPG>

<UTLX 69024.JPG>



Richard Hendrickson

Re: Nitric acid tank car

Jim Barnes
 

Thank you Richard for posting the photos of the DuPont version of this Nitric Acid tank car. This would be a great project car.
Jim Barnes

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android



From: Tim O'Connor ;
To: ;
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Nitric acid tank car
Sent: Thu, Nov 21, 2013 11:18:28 PM


> Here you are, Jim, along with a photo of one of the UTLX cars with “ventilated” jacketing.
> Richard Hendrickson

Does STMFC now allow attachments?

Anyway, that UTLX car is something else" "transformer oil" -- Can you say PCB's?? Oh my God,
talk about hazardous material. If that car derailed today they'd evacuate a 100 mile radius.

Tim O'Connor



------------------------------------

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Re: MR plans from disk.

davesnyder59
 

Thanks Eric, but I'm in the B&ORRHS.

Dave Snyder
Louisville, Ky.

 



---In STMFC@..., <ehiser@...> wrote:

Dave Snyder wrote that he had problems with his burned disks “from my historical society.” 

 

Dave, not sure if your “historical Society” is the Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society, but if it was, contact me and I’ll get you a replacement set.

 

Eric Hiser

Secretary & Publications Coordinator

Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society

ehiser@...

 

Re: Opening End Door Boxcars

Alexander Schneider Jr
 

Thanks to all who responded. As I model NYC in Michigan, it is a detail I need to add to appropriate cars.

 

I was looking at the NMRA Reprint of the January 1953 ORER.

 

Alex Schneider

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of guycwilber@...
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 7:26 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Opening End Door Boxcars

 




 

 

In a message dated 11/21/2013 4:12:25 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, doug.harding@... writes:

The AAR Pamphlet #28 you cite must be a much later version. The one I have is for “Methods for Loading, Bracing and Blocking Carload Shipments of Cast Iron Radiators in Closed Cars” issued Oct 1936, Revised Jan 1942.

 

Alex is correct, and referring to BULLETIN 28 issued by the Car Service Division of the AAR beginning in January of 1945 which listed all auto cars equipped with Evans Auto~Loaders or NYC Loaders or cars equipped only with floor tubes used in transporting larger motor vehicles, farm machinery, etc.  Printed in all subsequent ORER's as well as issued in pamphlet form from the CSD of the AAR which included additional currently released circulars and service orders regarding the use of auto cars equipped with loaders.  

 

You are referring to a Closed Car Loading Pamphlet which was one of a series of pamphlets issued by the Operating-Transportation Division of the ARA or AAR.    

 

Guy Wilber

Reno, Nevada




Re: MR plans from disk.

Eric Hiser <ehiser@...>
 

Dave Snyder wrote that he had problems with his burned disks “from my historical society.” 

 

Dave, not sure if your “historical Society” is the Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society, but if it was, contact me and I’ll get you a replacement set.

 

Eric Hiser

Secretary & Publications Coordinator

Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society

ehiser@...

 

Re: Opening End Door Boxcars

Guy Wilber
 

Alex wrote:
"Very interesting. Are any photos of the interior of such cars available on line? I'm trying to figure out what "floor tubes" look like."
Any interior photos will only show the location of the floor tubes which were capped with a brass casting fitted with a hinged cover plate.  The casting and cover plate assembly was flush with the top of the floor and sometimes barely discernible within interior photos.  The bulk of floor tube assembly was below the flooring of auto cars.   
 
Floor tubes were either round (5" OD) or oval (5" x 6" OD) and varied in length from 20" to 28".  Tubes were mounted perpendicular to the floor or at slight angles in order to clear various brake gear components, etc.  Auto cars equipped with Evans Auto~Loaders could be fitted with as few as eight or as many as sixteen floor tubes depending on the model of the loader.  Early NYC loaders did not utilize floor tubes while the later model did as the NYC purchased the tie down assemblies and floor tubes from Evans; the latter design was commonly referred to as the NYC "Combo" loader system.  
 
"Most of the cars listed had auto racks, some had end doors, and a few had both."
 
The percentage of auto cars equipped with end doors and loaders was historically quite small; generally less than 10% of the total.   The mechanics of  the installation of the cable hoist assembly on the "A" end (door) and the racking of the car end with doors (especially when loaded) persuaded many railroads to avoid this combination.
 
Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada 
 
 

Re: Opening End Door Boxcars

Guy Wilber
 

 
 
In a message dated 11/21/2013 4:12:25 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, doug.harding@... writes:

The AAR Pamphlet #28 you cite must be a much later version. The one I have is for “Methods for Loading, Bracing and Blocking Carload Shipments of Cast Iron Radiators in Closed Cars” issued Oct 1936, Revised Jan 1942.

 
Alex is correct, and referring to BULLETIN 28 issued by the Car Service Division of the AAR beginning in January of 1945 which listed all auto cars equipped with Evans Auto~Loaders or NYC Loaders or cars equipped only with floor tubes used in transporting larger motor vehicles, farm machinery, etc.  Printed in all subsequent ORER's as well as issued in pamphlet form from the CSD of the AAR which included additional currently released circulars and service orders regarding the use of auto cars equipped with loaders.  
 
You are referring to a Closed Car Loading Pamphlet which was one of a series of pamphlets issued by the Operating-Transportation Division of the ARA or AAR.    
 
Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada

Re: Opening End Door Boxcars

Douglas Harding
 

Alex, floor tubes, also known as a floor well, were usually large pieces of pipe hanging vertically down from the car floor, in which tie down chains could be stored out of the way. Easily modeled with a piece of styrene rod glued to the underside of your auto boxcar. A close look at auto boxcars undersides will show the tubes hanging down.

 

The AAR Pamphlet #28 you cite must be a much later version. The one I have is for “Methods for Loading, Bracing and Blocking Carload Shipments of Cast Iron Radiators in Closed Cars” issued Oct 1936, Revised Jan 1942.

 

In 1949 the AAR pamphlet #1 addressed “Motor Vehicles Shipped Carload in Auto Loader Cars” ie the loading of automobiles in loader equipped boxcars.

 

There is no #28 in the current list www.nscorp.com/nscorphtml/ncsc/aar_car_loading.xlsx‎

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

 

 

Re: Nitric acid tank car

Jeff Pellas <jppellas@...>
 

That's OK. Very interested in the UTLX car. Thanks for sharing even if you didn't mean to! 

Jeff
jppellas@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Hendrickson
To: STMFC
Sent: Thu, Nov 21, 2013 4:26 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Nitric acid tank car



Sorry, guys, I inadvertently sent this to the list rather than off-list to Jim.

On Nov 21, 2013, at 1:11 PM, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:


On Nov 17, 2013, at 11:50 AM, Jim Barnes <atsfjim2000@...> wrote:

Thanks for giving the picture link hours to Paolo. Richard, I would love to see the Du Pont version. Thank you. 
Jim Barnes

Here you are, Jim, along with a photo of one of the UTLX cars with “ventilated” jacketing.


Richard Hendrickson


Richard Hendrickson