Date   

Re: C&BT ATSF kit question

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 29, 2013, at 12:12 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Clark

The C&BT carbody is correct, but the running board needs to be replaced with either
a GYPSUM or a MORTON depending on the car number. I have a photo of one with ASF A-3
trucks (274714) but I don't know if they are original or replacements. The doors
are YSD-2A (Hawkins classification)

Some cars had Gypsum, some Morton, and some Apex.  The Santa Fe bought steel running boards from a variety of different suppliers at the time these cars were built, since RBs were in short supply in the years immediately following WW II.  Trucks, which I forgot to mention, were ASF A-3s on all cars.  C&BT Shops corrugated doors are correct.

Richard Hendrickson



Replacing wheels in brass trucks. Was: HO Scale Freight Car Truck Document Update

Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...>
 

None of our trucks, plastic, zamac, or brass are precision assemblies, fabrications, or castings; but brass trucks seem to be the least precise of them all.   They suffer from low production, and/or being hand made (all  but a few in Asia),  and the  inherent variations that seem to commonly arise  within any lot of larger investment castings (e.g warpage, and distortions or side frames, bolsters, equalizing bars, etc. ), and virtually none of these trucks undergo the machining required to correct these issues. .  As a result, no two trucks are alike, and commonly, within one truck, one side frame will not quite match the other, resulting in trucks where the axles are not parallel; or parallel and skewed; or the wheels are not aligned with each other, or some of the wheels do not in fact touch the rail.  The bearing holes in the side frames vary from shallow dimples of  varying depth, shape and contour  (same sideframe), to a semblance of a cone, to a straight cylinder of varying diameter. Virtually all roll with the ease of a stone sled pulled through deep sand.  
  
What have I done?  With few exceptions, on my brass freight cars, I bag and tag them, make an inventory note,  and retire them to the original box to await the critical assessment of the next owner. I then install the appropriate trucks from Accurail, Tahoe, etc., all free rolling on fitted Reboxx wheels. 

Now, some brass trucks present the challenge of  having no good prototype replacements, and in these instances, I try to fit Reboxx wheels (even in those with straight bearing holes if excessive side play can be prevented).  If there is no improvement in rolling ability (as measured on the Reboxx rolltester), then I stick with the original wheels (if they are in gauge and have good tread and flange contour).  Occasionally, I WILL use the IM ball bearing wheel sets. They are pricey, have an unknown working life (IM owner JP Barger tells me they have no knowledge of exactly how long the styrene balls will last), and do not roll as well as you might hope that they might.

Most recent common experience:  I just finished assembling a kit of good looking PSC brass Commonwealth express reefer trucks (inner brake hangers) that have been long in inventory. The purpose was to replace earlier shallow-relief coined brass trucks. 

Well...:

1) None of the castings, none whatsoever, were square or without significant distortion. 
2) The bearing holes in the single-casting equalizing bar cum journal boxes,  were simple dimples of uncertain contour, which in no way could accommodate the included straight-journal wheel sets.
3) The sideframes were to be fastened to the bolsters with 00-90 screws, none of which were included, and the castings were insufficiently tapped.
4) Only after application of many hours of much elbow grease with all sorts of files, a small hammer, and imprecations galore, could a reasonably square truck frame be finally assembled.  I used a Reboxx conical machine tool to open-up and create a semblance of a conical shape to the bearing holes.  I  was able to find in my scrap box some metal RP25 wheel sets  that while not fitting perfectly,  could actually roll (I chose not to use Reboxx wheels). On the Rolltester, the score was still 4- in the poor range, but still  better than a lot of brass trucks. 
5 I will not dwell on the difficulties of applying the very stiff large springs in the kit. It is fortunate that I had extras in inventory (after using up the kits extras). The springing ability of the truck is of no value whatsover, but...they keep the equalizing bar separated from the frame, and they look good.
6) Even after all that I had to use hand twisting etc. get each truck square to the track.

The resulting trucks are very good looking, but were only worth the effort because no good modern operating equivalent is available.

More than you wanted to know...

   Denny   


Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento, CA 

Please note my new eMail address.






Re: ScaleCoat II flat weathering colors

John Sykes III
 

P.S.  I forgot Steve Hoxie's favorite weathering color, Roof Brown (F21).  Pretty much the same as the Floquil version. 


Re: C&BT ATSF kit question

Andy Sperandeo
 

Hi Clark,

Does the car have a Santa Fe class designation, such as Bx-? Let me know and I can look up the prototype.

Andy


Re: C&BT ATSF kit question

Tim O'Connor
 

Clark

The C&BT carbody is correct, but the running board needs to be replaced with either
a GYPSUM or a MORTON depending on the car number. I have a photo of one with ASF A-3
trucks (274714) but I don't know if they are original or replacements. The doors
are YSD-2A (Hawkins classification)

Tim O'Connor


 A friend asked me to upgrade and assemble a C&BT ATSF kit. It�s a 12 panel car with 4/4 IDE and a rectangular panel roof, designated Bx48. Just want to see if it�s good to go before I lite into it. Oh, the kit has both Youngstown and Superior doors. I�ve seen too many wrong guesses here even though the odds are even�


 Clark, the C&BT kit is correct for the Santa Fe Bx-48 class, and all of the cars in the class had postwar Youngstown corrugated doors.  If you want prototype photos, I have them.
 Richard Hendrickson


Re: C&BT ATSF kit question

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 29, 2013, at 10:50 AM, <cepropst@q.com> <cepropst@q.com> wrote:

A friend asked me to upgrade and assemble a C&BT ATSF kit. It’s a 12 panel car with 4/4 IDE and a rectangular panel roof, designated Bx48. Just want to see if it’s good to go before I lite into it. Oh, the kit has both Youngstown and Superior doors. I’ve seen too many wrong guesses here even though the odds are even
Clark, the C&BT kit is correct for the Santa Fe Bx-48 class, and all of the cars in the class had postwar Youngstown corrugated doors.  If you want prototype photos, I have them.

Richard Hendrickson



C&BT ATSF kit question

Clark Propst
 

A friend asked me to upgrade and assemble a C&BT ATSF kit. It’s a 12 panel car with 4/4 IDE and a rectangular panel roof, designated Bx48. Just want to see if it’s good to go before I lite into it. Oh, the kit has both Youngstown and Superior doors. I’ve seen too many wrong guesses here even though the odds are even...
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Question for Steve Hile, or whoever answers : )

Clark Propst
 

I’m considering modeling RI hopper 89456 from series 89400-89599. I’m confused (what else is new) by the caption in the Morning Sun color book. It lists different builders in this series, but but not much else.
So, my question is: Which model do I use for this car?
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


ScaleCoat II flat weathering colors

John Sykes III
 

I bought some of the new ScaleCoat II flat weathering colors from Jeff Adam at Motrak Models.


Most of the color names are self explanatory, but three or four need some clarification.  First, the Burnt Orange (F106) is equivalent to Floquil Rust or Rust #2, the SCII Rust (F113) is more of a "old" or weathered rust color (much redder - almost a flat Oxide Red), RR Grime #1 (F116) is equivalent to Floquil Grime, but seems less green to me (yeah!).


The RR Grime #2 (F117) is more like the original Floquil Grimy Black (pre-Testors version) in that it sprays really well (I was not happy with either the post-Testors' Rust or Grimy Black, which I thought came out too glossy)!  There are also two Blacks (F112 & F118), White (F11), Sand (F114), which is a beige color similar to Floquil "Dust" and a flat Dirt (F115), which is almost a flat Tuscan Red or Boxcar Red color.


I use lacquer thinner with my weathering paints, so they dry as soon as they hit the model, but regular paint thinner should work as well with these paints (but dry slower).


Jeff has a deal with ScaleCoat to repackage the paint in consumer quantity 2 oz bottles (the colors are apparently available for commercial customers from ScaleCoat only in 8 oz cans).  The bottles make them easier to handle for us "low-volume" amateur weatherers.


If you order some, order a bunch, as the shipping cost for hazardous material drives up the S&H a bit (Jeff correctly packages them as ORM-D for shipping).  Better yet, talk you LHS into ordering & stocking them on a regular basis.


I do not have any business relationship with either Motrak Models or ScaleCoat, but have been desperate to find an equivalent replacement (solvent-based) for the Floquil weathering products.


-- John


Re: HO Scale Freight Car Truck Document Update

devansprr
 

Spen,


One thing to watch out for is electrical shorts. A good friend had a beautiful set of brass LW passenger cars with 4-wheel trucks that rolled terribly - he replaced the wheels with the Intermountain ball bearing sets. The cars roll much better, but they are prone to the rather infrequent short circuit, even on 42 inch radius and #8 turnouts and with very good trackwork. The trucks do have tremendous detail, and they probably have more potential contact points than a freight car truck.


But during an op session, when trying to meet a schedule with DCC diesels on the point that include a start-up sequence, the infrequent short becomes a very significant source of frustration. The beauty of the car set (fluted stainless cars) is probably the only reason they get run during an op session, and extra time is included for spontaneous "whistle" stops ;-)


I did not attempt to trouble shoot the problem, so I do not know if the physical and insulation geometry of the Intermountain ball bearing sets are the root cause of the short. Depending on the geometry (side frame spacing, spring stiffness) and level of detail on the trucks (brake shoes and brake beams, etc), you may want to conduct some good testing under power on a layout, in both short and long consists, to check for shorts in different truck-tracking situations before investing heavily in the ball bearing wheelsets.


Dave Evans



---In stmfc@..., <spninetynine@...> wrote:

Richard,

What are your thoughts on replacing the wheels in bras trucks with Intermountain's roller bearing wheel sets?

Spen Kellogg


SOLD - F&C Kit 6914 Twin Tank Milk Car 52' Flatcar Kit

erict1361@...
 

Item Has been Sold.

 

 Thank You !

 

 Eric Thur


Re: HO Scale Freight Car Truck Document Update

Spen Kellogg <spninetynine@...>
 

On 11/28/2013 12:07 PM, Richard Hendrickson wrote:
�


Please be my guest, Tim. �I wouldn�t want to deprive you of the enjoyment in doing so. �I�ll expect to see the results in, what, 2 or 3 years? �Of course it�s questionable how useful that list would be, since most brass trucks were available only very briefly, if at all, not to mention that most of them rolled like bricks.


Richard,

What are your thoughts on replacing the wheels in bras trucks with Intermountain's roller bearing wheel sets?

Spen Kellogg


Re: Steel grid roofwalks where they don't belong

mopacfirst
 

Right, but not these. These are pre-war cars (actually 1942) with 5-5 round corner Dreadnought ends with rectangular Murphy roof. In model terms, this is the 10'6" modified AAR box.

About the only other thing I need to do to this car is fill or remove the poling pockets. Not sure about the trucks yet, since the existing IM truck looks OK but the Tahoe truck might be closer.

Sorry for not making this clear.

Ron Merrick

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Rich C <rhcdmc@...> wrote:

Ron, Since the XM-32 covered a lot of box cars over a fairly long period of time, the best bet would be to change a few digits as the Post-War XM-32f's had steel running boards.

Rich Christie



On Thursday, November 28, 2013 2:43 PM, mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...> wrote:

 
I have a couple of IM 40' boxcars on the bench now. Bought them a couple of years ago, and so I was going to upgrade the couplers. These are Burlington 32xxx XM-32 cars, so as I was checking the Burlington Bulletin issue that covers these cars, I noticed that the prototypes had wood roofwalks which were apparently never replaced with steel.

What does the model have? A metal grid running board. Usually, if the running board is wrong, it's the other way around because it seems to be easier to make a wood roofwalk out of plastic like the rest of the model than try to attach a metal one.

Has anyone tried to remove one of these? These walks look decent enough, so I'd like to salvage them and re-mount them on something where they belong, so I'm wondering if they would come off in one piece and decently straight.

Ron Merrick


Re: Steel grid roofwalks where they don't belong

Rich C
 

Ron, Since the XM-32 covered a lot of box cars over a fairly long period of time, the best bet would be to change a few digits as the Post-War XM-32f's had steel running boards.

Rich Christie


On Thursday, November 28, 2013 2:43 PM, mopacfirst wrote:
 
I have a couple of IM 40' boxcars on the bench now. Bought them a couple of years ago, and so I was going to upgrade the couplers. These are Burlington 32xxx XM-32 cars, so as I was checking the Burlington Bulletin issue that covers these cars, I noticed that the prototypes had wood roofwalks which were apparently never replaced with steel.

What does the model have? A metal grid running board. Usually, if the running board is wrong, it's the other way around because it seems to be easier to make a wood roofwalk out of plastic like the rest of the model than try to attach a metal one.

Has anyone tried to remove one of these? These walks look decent enough, so I'd like to salvage them and re-mount them on something where they belong, so I'm wondering if they would come off in one piece and decently straight.

Ron Merrick




Re: Whatever happened to.....

Bill Dewar
 

Sorry, sent before completed,
 
did not think my tools would like cutting into the Ulrich cars, too much.
I would like plastic versions ,as the metal ones are hard on my steamers, 10 in one train is a diesel powered consist.
Bill Dewar
Brampton, On

 
 

Hello Steve,
I have done ten of these conversions to CNR type cars, with three more to go.
I looked at cutting up the metal kit to create one of the smaller cars,


 
 

I'd be very interested as well.  I have three of the Ulrich GS gons.  They are very similar to those used by CN.  But the stirrup steps often became casualties...


On a similar topic, was CN (and its predecessors Intercolonial and GTR) the only user of the 36' version of these cars?


  http://www.cnrphotos.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=16440


Steve Lucas.



 

.


Re: Whatever happened to.....

Bill Dewar
 

Hello Steve,
I have done ten of these conversions to CNR type cars, with three more to go.
I looked at cutting up the metal kit to create one of the smaller cars,


 
 

I'd be very interested as well.  I have three of the Ulrich GS gons.  They are very similar to those used by CN.  But the stirrup steps often became casualties...


On a similar topic, was CN (and its predecessors Intercolonial and GTR) the only user of the 36' version of these cars?


  http://www.cnrphotos.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=16440


Steve Lucas.



 

.


Re: steel flat car deck weathering

Steve Bechtold
 

The article was by Dave Pires (I don't think that I have the spelling right).  He has done a number of articles on WP equipment, including "stretching" Red Caboose 40 foot flats to Western Pacific flats.  He is a very talented modeler.  He reworked a Walthers Depressed Center Flat for a WP one.  The article might have been in RMJ, for anyone who is better at searching than I.  I will look through the mags this weekend and see if I can find the article.

 

Steven Bechtold

More Modern but Voyeur de STMFC 


On 11/28/2013 8:05 AM, Bruce F. Smith wrote:
so I'm hoping that one of y'all might be able to point me in the direction of a photo or two.
Bruce,
    I seem to remember  that one of the mags had an article in it about steel top flats but don't remember when.  Probably RMC as that's the only one I have taken for years.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Steel grid roofwalks where they don't belong

mopacfirst
 

I have a couple of IM 40' boxcars on the bench now. Bought them a couple of years ago, and so I was going to upgrade the couplers. These are Burlington 32xxx XM-32 cars, so as I was checking the Burlington Bulletin issue that covers these cars, I noticed that the prototypes had wood roofwalks which were apparently never replaced with steel.

What does the model have? A metal grid running board. Usually, if the running board is wrong, it's the other way around because it seems to be easier to make a wood roofwalk out of plastic like the rest of the model than try to attach a metal one.

Has anyone tried to remove one of these? These walks look decent enough, so I'd like to salvage them and re-mount them on something where they belong, so I'm wondering if they would come off in one piece and decently straight.

Ron Merrick


WTB Micro Scale 90001

ghslaw31
 

I am completing an O scale scratch build for a client and lost one of the 4 need "4"s from Micro Scale 90001. If anyone has that decal sheet and they would be willing to part with  it they would doing a real good deed.
Many thanks,
Gerry Siegel
Mountville Pa


Re: HO Scale Freight Car Truck Document Update

Tony Thompson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

But even the worst of them roll better than Kadee sprung metal trucks with plastic axle wheelsets. Urf! I'm so glad Kadee is replacing those things.

     True, those Kadees are not great, but if you think they are worse than lots of brass trucks, I have some SPECIAL trucks you might like to buy.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history




72581 - 72600 of 192670