Date   

GATC stock cars

Clark Propst
 

I’ve got photos of an Armour and M&StL stock cars I will assume were leased from General American. The cars appear to be of the same design. I’m curious to know if other roads or companies lease cars of this same design.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: branchline blueprint reefers

Michael Aufderheide
 

Randy,


Andrew Dahm of Westerfield Models posted a few weeks ago that he offers Hutchins roofs as a separate part. I would give you a STMFC message number to refer to, but I cannot figure out how to search the messages with this new Yee-haw system.


Regards,


Mike Aufderheide


Re: Tru-color paint

Norm Buckhart
 

Protocraft's paint packages are available only from Protocraft.   while not yet on the web catalog you can order directly.  Just email me at norm@... with the specific model you are doing and we will assemble the correct paint package for you.  Norm

On Dec 12, 2013, at 5:05 AM, Timothy Cannon wrote:

 

Thanks for the info Norm! I am still unsure as to where I can get this paint. Where can I get TCP-923 or its equal? I am modeling early Frisco cars.

Thanks for any info you can provide.

Tim

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Protocraft
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 10:14 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tru-color paint

 

 

TIm - Protocraft's TCP numbers are a propitiatory number assigned by True Color Paints for the Protocraft Paint Package line - where you can order them .  The 8 freight car red/brown colors are matched to actual paint chips given to Ed Hawkins, Pat Wider and Ray Long (publishers of the comprehensive RP CYC series) when they were given access to AC&F's factory archives long before the factory closed and the materials were sent to the St Louis Mercantile Library at the University of Missouri (where they can be seen today.)  Ed's research separating all the many chips taken from drift cards at the back of each Bill of Materials for each Lot number of cars ordered and built at ACF, proved that while there were many paint manufacturers specified by the car purchaser, and each had a name or different number for their product, or both, that dozens of different chips would reveal themselves to be identical.  For Pullman, the Bill of Materials was the reference, but the same paint manufacturers were used.

 

The net of Ed's research - and I have gone through his collection of grouped colors - is that there really was only 8 different shades of freight car red/brown.  For example, the early shades fell into what we called Group I.  This was a dark brown used in the early years:1930-1940's.  Different paint chips had different paint manufacturers such as Glidden, Pittsburg Paint, Dupont and others, with each having a part number and usually a named color.   The roads that specified the Group I colors were ATSF, B&O, CGW, C&O, ERIE, NK,  PM, KCS, L&A, MP and subsidiarys, NdeM, RI and W&LE.  BUT when the chips were laid out on the table in sunlight - they were all identical in color and shade.

 

Therefor if painting a model for any of these roads for the period 1930-1940's, TCP-921 would be correct.  However there is a caveat to this - while prototypically correct, this shade is a very dark brown.  Next it is important to understand that this paint faded and oxidized rather quickly, resulting in a much lighter shade.  The shade gets lighter as the paint oxidized over a period of 1 year, 2 years, 3 years, etc.  So you don't want to use the TCP paint straight out of the bottle, unless you want to model the day the car came out of the paint shop.  The answer is to mix in a small amount of TCP179 Grey (included in the paint package) to achieve the years the car was being exposed to the elements.  This is achieved by first priming a piece of scrap styrene and then experimenting to find the shade you want.  And finally, examine your dried sample under the layout's lights, which will be different than sunlight.

 

Then too, after 8-10 years the cars were repainted, using a later shade of paint, and probably a new synthetic one, plus new lettering schemes.  The actual paint chips show the same thing in these groups, but now with a more reddish hues and oxidized colors; hence the higher TCP Group numbers, ending in Group VIII.   These were slower to fade, but they did and still need to be blended with TCP-179 to replicate normal aging.

 

The result is a very accurate color for your period model, from the 1930's right up to the 1960's.

 

Norm Buckhart

Protocraft

 

On Dec 9, 2013, at 7:16 PM, Timothy Cannon wrote:



 

 

On the subject of True Color Paint- The Protocraft Decal web site calls for TCP-923 color for a certain decal set. For the life of me I cannot find this number listed anywhere on the TCP color chart. Am I missing something here or what???

Thanks!

Tim

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 1:34 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Tru-color paint

 

 



--- In STMFC@..., Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:
>
> Don,
> Accupaint bottled up their product from ONE gallon pails, not five. And they stepped on it a bit, supposedly to enhance the covering abilities, but I suspect it was to increase the profit margin. Tim O'Connor could tell us much more, as he knew the principals.
>
> Tru-paint, like Accupaint, is sourced from Southern California.
> -Andy Carlson
> Ojai CA

You are correct on the source but that is all, Andy.
As far as Tim O'Connor is concerned I knew George Bishop, the sole "pricipal" and quite well at that as we used to meet at
noon at least once per week, before anyone over heard of Tim.

Cordially, Don Valentine

 

 




Re: branchline blueprint reefers

Bill Welch
 

Yes unfortunately there is no way to purchase just the core body structure itself, formally at least it would appear. I would suggest writing them and see if they would sell you the body core. To make it worth their while, maybe ask to purchase two or three.


Alternatively, you might see if InterMountain will sell you their FGE Hutchins roof. Personally I think it is a wimpy version of the roof but compromises are often what we have to do.


Bill Welch


Re: branchline blueprint reefers

Benjamin Hom
 

Randy Arnold asked:
"I looked at the Accurail web site and see that they are not offering roofs as separate detail parts, which on of there kits would one have to buy to get the correct roof?"
 
Randy, the roofs are integrally cast into one-piece car bodies and are NOT separate parts.  Your best bet is buy a complete kit as the carbodies are not listed separately.  Besides, you get a nice underframe and trucks for other kitbashes.
 
 
Ben Hom


Re: Essential Freight Cars magazine articles for sale (plus supporting articles)

Misc Clark
 

Dan - would you be interested in selling just the Essential Freight Car issues?Thanks, Clark Cone


On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 6:15 PM, culturalinfidel9 <djmiller@...> wrote:
 

Hi folks,

I have a collection of modeling magazines that I'm looking to part with. I am posting this here because the collection was purchased following Ted's Essential Freight Cars series in Railmodel Craftsman, including supporting articles from other magazines that Ted mentioned in his RMC articles. Included are the entire Essential Freight Cars series in RMC, plus many Mainline Modeler, Model Railroading, Prototype Modeler, and Railmodel Journal back issues. With very few exceptions, all are in excellent condition. Please contact me directly for a listing.

Thank you,
Dan Miller



Re: Hides

Don <riverman_vt@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Norm Larkin" <lonolarkin1@...> wrote:

Thanks. Anyone know if some of the hide traffic to Elkland originated in New England?
Norm Larkin

My gut feeling is that hide traffic was destined to New England and did not originate there. The large, and now gone to the best of my knowledge, Lawrence Leather Co. operated in Peabody, Mass. and Winchester, NH. and received hides from elsewhere. There was also a company off the south side of Granite St. in Manchester, NH in the early 1960's and 1970's that received hides in CB&Q cars which, unfortunately, I never took any photos of, nor did I ever note the name of the company. New England was a processor of hides for the large shoe industry within the region in the first half of the 1900's but as the shoe industry wound down in the region so did the leather tanneries.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Tru-color paint

Timothy Cannon
 

Thanks for the info Norm! I am still unsure as to where I can get this paint. Where can I get TCP-923 or its equal? I am modeling early Frisco cars.

Thanks for any info you can provide.

Tim

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Protocraft
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 10:14 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tru-color paint

 

 

TIm - Protocraft's TCP numbers are a propitiatory number assigned by True Color Paints for the Protocraft Paint Package line - where you can order them .  The 8 freight car red/brown colors are matched to actual paint chips given to Ed Hawkins, Pat Wider and Ray Long (publishers of the comprehensive RP CYC series) when they were given access to AC&F's factory archives long before the factory closed and the materials were sent to the St Louis Mercantile Library at the University of Missouri (where they can be seen today.)  Ed's research separating all the many chips taken from drift cards at the back of each Bill of Materials for each Lot number of cars ordered and built at ACF, proved that while there were many paint manufacturers specified by the car purchaser, and each had a name or different number for their product, or both, that dozens of different chips would reveal themselves to be identical.  For Pullman, the Bill of Materials was the reference, but the same paint manufacturers were used.

 

The net of Ed's research - and I have gone through his collection of grouped colors - is that there really was only 8 different shades of freight car red/brown.  For example, the early shades fell into what we called Group I.  This was a dark brown used in the early years:1930-1940's.  Different paint chips had different paint manufacturers such as Glidden, Pittsburg Paint, Dupont and others, with each having a part number and usually a named color.   The roads that specified the Group I colors were ATSF, B&O, CGW, C&O, ERIE, NK,  PM, KCS, L&A, MP and subsidiarys, NdeM, RI and W&LE.  BUT when the chips were laid out on the table in sunlight - they were all identical in color and shade.

 

Therefor if painting a model for any of these roads for the period 1930-1940's, TCP-921 would be correct.  However there is a caveat to this - while prototypically correct, this shade is a very dark brown.  Next it is important to understand that this paint faded and oxidized rather quickly, resulting in a much lighter shade.  The shade gets lighter as the paint oxidized over a period of 1 year, 2 years, 3 years, etc.  So you don't want to use the TCP paint straight out of the bottle, unless you want to model the day the car came out of the paint shop.  The answer is to mix in a small amount of TCP179 Grey (included in the paint package) to achieve the years the car was being exposed to the elements.  This is achieved by first priming a piece of scrap styrene and then experimenting to find the shade you want.  And finally, examine your dried sample under the layout's lights, which will be different than sunlight.

 

Then too, after 8-10 years the cars were repainted, using a later shade of paint, and probably a new synthetic one, plus new lettering schemes.  The actual paint chips show the same thing in these groups, but now with a more reddish hues and oxidized colors; hence the higher TCP Group numbers, ending in Group VIII.   These were slower to fade, but they did and still need to be blended with TCP-179 to replicate normal aging.

 

The result is a very accurate color for your period model, from the 1930's right up to the 1960's.

 

Norm Buckhart

Protocraft

 

On Dec 9, 2013, at 7:16 PM, Timothy Cannon wrote:



 

 

On the subject of True Color Paint- The Protocraft Decal web site calls for TCP-923 color for a certain decal set. For the life of me I cannot find this number listed anywhere on the TCP color chart. Am I missing something here or what???

Thanks!

Tim

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 1:34 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Tru-color paint

 

 



--- In STMFC@..., Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:
>
> Don,
> Accupaint bottled up their product from ONE gallon pails, not five. And they stepped on it a bit, supposedly to enhance the covering abilities, but I suspect it was to increase the profit margin. Tim O'Connor could tell us much more, as he knew the principals.
>
> Tru-paint, like Accupaint, is sourced from Southern California.
> -Andy Carlson
> Ojai CA

You are correct on the source but that is all, Andy.
As far as Tim O'Connor is concerned I knew George Bishop, the sole "pricipal" and quite well at that as we used to meet at
noon at least once per week, before anyone over heard of Tim.

Cordially, Don Valentine

 

 


Re: L&NE box car question

Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 

LNE 8691 is part of the 8501-8750 series built by Magor in 1934. They had Dreadnaught ends and Standard Improved roofs as built. As far as I know, all replacement roofs were always Standard Diagonal, and no ends were replaced on either series.
 
Eric
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 6:56 AM
Subject: [STMFC] L&NE box car question

 

I know many of these cars were rebuilt with new roofs, but did this car
also receive new ends, or was it one of the "X29" style cars delivered with
dreadnaught ends?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111209230325

Thanks

Tim O'Connor


Ralston freight car lot numbers

Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 

I'm looking for builder reference numbers (lot or O.O.) for the following series. The typical sources such as diagram books haven't been useful. I'm hoping someone has builder photos which often include the number as part of the photo number. All of these series were built 1940-1950 and should have numbers ranging from 2534 to 2579. Confirmed months-year built would also be helpful beyond what is shown.
 
B&O 636500-636999 4-46 hopper class N35a
B&O 823500-823999 hopper class N35a
EJ&E 6375-6574 flat
EJ&E 33750-34189 gondola
EJ&E 34500-34899 2-48 gondola
EJ&E 70750-71049 hopper
EJ&E 71050-71249 9-44 hopper
ERIE 21200-21299 3-49 covered hopper
JISCO (Jackson Iron & Steel) 2 cars, numbers unknown, hopper
N&W 49500-49999 11=12-40 class B5
N&W 99000-99499 class G1
NH A220-A229 air dump
SP 160000-160099 6-50 class G-70-6
W&LE 23000-23499 9-44=12-45 box
W&LE 2 cars, numbers unknown, air dump
 
Thanks,
Eric Neubauer


Re: branchline blueprint reefers

randy arnold
 

Bill
I did one of your kit bashes as described in Prototype Railroad
Modeling I believe it was vol I, great fun. I looked at the Accurail
web site and see that they are not offering roofs as separate detail
parts, which on of there kits would one have to buy to get the correct
roof?

--
Best Regards
Randy


L&NE box car question

Tim O'Connor
 

I know many of these cars were rebuilt with new roofs, but did this car
also receive new ends, or was it one of the "X29" style cars delivered with
dreadnaught ends?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111209230325

Thanks

Tim O'Connor


Re: Hides

Benjamin Hom
 

mguill1224@aol.com wrote:
"Yankee Clipper offered an HO kit for a WAG boxcar.  Most of those cars came from the B&M.  I run one on my layout even though I do not have a tannery."
 
These were done by Funaro for Yankee Clipper and are available in his line as the 6000 series, including roof and door variations, the stock car conversion, and B&M and WAG lettering.
 
Ben Hom


Vintage HO scale crafstman kits on eBay

Rob Sarberenyi
 

My apologies for the almost last minute notice. I have a several vintage HO
scale wood craftsman freight car kits currently listed on eBay. These include
Ambroid, Central Valley, Quality Craft, Northeastern Scale Models, Red Ball,
Scotia Scale Models and others. To view the items please visit

http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_ipg=50&_ssn=espeef5&_sop=1

Thanks for looking!

Rob Sarberenyi


Calling Gene Simon

Bill Welch
 

Dear Gene:

I recently sent you an ART related question and since I have not heard from you, I wondering if I botched your email address. Can you please send me a message to "fgexbill at tampabay.rr.com" substituting @ were I have spelled out "at" and eliminating the spaces on either side?

Thank you!

Bill Welch


Re: Hides

 

The NYC and the B&S(later B&O, then WA&G) both serviced Elkland.  Elkland is in Potter County, Pa.  One of the largest tanneries in the world was in Elkland, Pa.


Re: Merchandise Service X26c

Benjamin Hom
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
"Your friend may also have mistaken an X29b for an X26C. There were
at least two X29b's (28049, 30901) painted in MS1. Still it's funny
that the model has the right number -- 107324. How'd your friend
know that, if he has no photo?"
 
The Class X26C boxcars equipped for LCL service are called out in the notes section of ther ORER - that's how we know 105136 and 107324 are the cars.  Additionally, Rich Burg identified these cars in a letter speculating that they might have been painted in MS1 that was published in a Schleicher "Freight Car Feedback" column in an early issue of Railmodel Journal.  BTW, there were more than two Class X29B painted in MS1 - see my article in the October 2004 issue of The Keystone Modeler listing documented cars in the three Merchandise Service paint variations.  Stranger things have happened, but I sincerely doubt there was any photo.
 
Back to the S Helper Service model. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321270565805
Upon further review, this model is in the rare MS3 scheme with Shadow Keystone, photo documented on only four cars - 3 Class X29 and one Class X41C boxcars.  I really have my doubts that one of the two Class X26C boxcars received this scheme - it would be a rarity among rarities.  Additionally, the model itself is the root of evil - it's the first iteration of the so called "USRA Rebuilt Boxcar" that is the Athearn gon of boxcar models, first offered by S Helper Service and copied by Atlas and spread to the other scales like a poorly modeled cancer.
 
 
Ben Hom


Re: Hides

Norman+Laraine Larkin
 

Thanks. Anyone know if some of the hide traffic to Elkland originated in New England?
Norm Larkin

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Hides

Tioga County, PA about 2 miles south of the NY border on PA route 49 southwest of Corning NY

Rich Orr



-----Original Message-----
From: Norm Larkin <lonolarkin1@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tue, Dec 10, 2013 2:51 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Hides



Where is Elkland?
Norm Larkin
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 11:59 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Hides

Most, if not all, of the boxcars owned by the Wellsville Addison & Galeton carried hides.  Pics of those cars at tanneries on the WAG do exist, especially the big one at Elkland, the loss of which doomed the WAG.  Yankee Clipper offered an HO kit for a WAG boxcar.  Most of those cars came from the B&M.  I run one on my layout even though I do not have a tannery.



Re: C&BT reefer roof

tyesac@...
 

Andy,
 
Nothing like a modeler making a jig to "gear up for production" a homemade fix to illustrate a "what's wrong" with this picture, which is why the IM cars buried the CB&T's   Like you, I have a small supply of these unfinished kits.  The one, and perhaps only thing going for them is that the sides are really good, and the bottom of the mold is virtually blank.  As such, that blank underbody makes for a nice starting point for creating Rr-21 & Rr-29's from these by adding a Duryea underframe, and replacing or tossing most all of the rest of it, including the ends.  When the Sunshine Rr-21 & Rr-29 kits came out, they included a third end, so, every second Sunshine reefer has supplied me with the ends to fix the C&BT body with replacement resin ends.   Almost like the story about my grandfather's axe, except dad replaced the handle, & I replaced the head.  (original C&BT box though!)
 
Tom Casey

-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Sperandeo To: STMFC
Sent: Sat, Dec 7, 2013 4:31 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] C&BT reefer roof

 
Hello Ed,

I made a jig to hold the C&BT roof for a lengthwise cut with a razor saw, then used an NWSL True Sander to sand half the excess width from each roof section. After cementing the roof back together, I used a chisel blade to scrape the ledge under the eaves to a more realistic height. All of this really improved the car's proportions, and the running board hid the seam at the peak of the roof. But after I'd done two or three cars this way, I learned that the InterMountain car was coming and stopped building the C&BT kits. (Anybody want to buy some? I'll make you a good price!)

It occurs to me now that since InterMountain sells parts, you could buy its roofs to put on C&BT carbodies. But I think I'll stick to the IM kits and r-t-r cars.

Merry Christmas,

Andy
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Re: Merchandise Service X26c

Greg Martin
 

Tim,
 
Ben's information has been posted on the PRR-Modeling site several times. I once thought I had a shot of an X26c in MS1 but by the number Ben set me Square. We would love to see that photo(s) if one exists.
 
Greg Martin
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 

In a message dated 12/10/2013 7:56:05 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, timboconnor@... writes:
 

Bill

Your friend may also have mistaken an X29b for an X26C. There were
at least two X29b's (28049, 30901) painted in MS1. Still it's funny
that the model has the right number -- 107324. How'd your friend
know that, if he has no photo?

Tim O'Connor

>Bill Lane wrote:
>"I am looking for a Merchandise Service X26c prototype photo to add to my collection. http://www.ebay.com/itm/321270565805 My friend that made this car said they do exist."
>
>Your friend overeggs the pudding a bit. Only two Class X26C boxcars (105136 and 107324) were equipped to handle LCL freight, and there is no evidence to date, either photo or written documentation, that these were ever painted in MS1. It's highly likely they were as the other classes so equipped received MS1, so if your search turns something up, it would be great.
>
>Ben Hom

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