Date   

Re: InterMountain AAR NYC boxcar

Ed Hawkins
 


On Dec 23, 2013, at 6:55 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Richard says some of the NYC box cars built 1944-1945 had black roofs, but
I've never seen a photo of one. I've seen 1950's repaints with black ends,
and then the Jade Green cars got black roofs too. Richard can you cite any
published photos or web links to wartime cars with black roofs? Thanks I'd
really like to know if there were any.

I agree by the late 1950's it seems like all of the roofs were bare metal,
and only the seam caps still had paint on them.

Tim,
I don't have paint specs for the 1944 Despatch-built NYC box cars, but ACF paint specs for 3 series of NYC 50' box and auto cars built from 2-45 to 12-45 all specify brown sides and ends, black roofs (car cement), black underframes, and black trucks. 

ACF lot 2736 - 64500-65499
ACF lot 2774 - 65500-66499
ACF lot 2775 - 80500-80999 & 177300-177799

Also, a series of NYC 40' AAR box cars built ca. 5-48 (ACF lot 3284, 166000-166999) received brown sides and ends with black car cement on the roofs. Trucks were also black, however, the underframes of these 40' box cars were brown.

In the STMFC archives should be discussion about 1948 NYC box cars built by Greenville Steel 40' with paint specs denoting black roofs and unpainted running boards except for brown paint on the edges. Very decorative.

While I agree this information isn't absolute proof of the roof color used on the 1944 Despatch box cars, it does provide supporting data for Richard's statement. Early photos of the NYC 159000-159999 box cars have been elusive. A side view builder's photo of NYC 159000 is available from the Andrew Merrilees Collection at the National Archives of Canada.

Regards, 
Ed Hawkins


FCCC box cars

Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 

Consolidated of Cuba had 40' box cars which possibly came to the U.S. via car float. If any one is familiar with these, I have some questions.
 
Did the cars circulate in the U.S.?
 
250 were built by Mt. Vernon (PSC subsidiary) in 1947. 17190 and 17204 appear to be two of the car numbers, but what is the full series?
 
350 more were built in 1952. They were ordered from Pressed Steel Car. What were the car numbers, and were they built at Mt. Vernon or McKees Rocks?
 
Thanks,
Eric


Re: InterMountain AAR NYC boxcar

Tim O'Connor
 


Richard says some of the NYC box cars built 1944-1945 had black roofs, but
I've never seen a photo of one. I've seen 1950's repaints with black ends,
and then the Jade Green cars got black roofs too. Richard can you cite any
published photos or web links to wartime cars with black roofs? Thanks I'd
really like to know if there were any.

I agree by the late 1950's it seems like all of the roofs were bare metal,
and only the seam caps still had paint on them.

Intermountain is notorious for botched paint jobs -- their C&NW welded PS-1
models came without black ends and roofs for example. Even Kadee has made a
mistake or two. I don't trust anyone anymore; I've got to see a photo!

Tim O'Connor




Was looking for a quick relaxing build yesterday and came across an InterMountain NYC. 10' 6" boxcar numbered 159323.  Date by the light weight shows new 9-44.  Lettering is crisp so I'd like to keep it in it's factory lettering if its correct for an NYC car.  Lot number above the NYV oval is 734-B.   It also includes a black roof.

How close is this model to the NYC prototype boxcar from 9-44?

Charlie, the car number, date built, and lot number all match.  Number series for that lot was 159000-159999, built by the Despatch Shops in East Rochester NY.  The only thing I�d be uncertain about is the black roof, but some NYC box cars built ca. 1944-�45 did have black roofs and if IM went to the trouble to paint the roof black it�s likely that they had prototype information to that effect.  The one photo I have of a car in that series is a B/W shot taken in �56 and it�s sufficiently weathered that I can�t tell whether the roof was black.  I�ll send you a scan of that photo off-list.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: NP Stock Cars represented by Central Valley kit

Andy Harman
 

At 05:20 PM 12/22/2013 -0800, you wrote:
I have a photo of an NP stock car with that lettering arrangement dated
1974.

Me too. I wasn't into shooting freight cars at the time, but it struck me as unusual and I snapped a Kodachrome - slightly blurred but the number is readable.

Andy


Re: Chameleon paint stripper

Andy Harman
 

At 04:04 PM 12/22/2013 -0800, you wrote:

I have not found Chameleon in a couple of years now, but found that ScaleCoat Wash-Away paint stripper is identical chemically to Chameleon.
Scalecoat has probably changed their formula somewhat. I used to use some stuff called "UnPaint", which was very similar. Back around 1996, I stripped a Kato SD40 shell with Scalecoat and the shell was obliterated. It didn't melt, but the stripping solution made the plastic so brittle that the walkway section broke into about 10 pieces just scrubbing the paint off. A year or so later, I successfully stripped a Kato SD40 using Chameleon. IMO both products are hard on plastic - especially the stuff Kato uses or at least used back then - but the Cham at least left me with a usable shell.

It has been a long time since I had to resort to anything harsher than alcohol to strip factory paint, which is good because the lack of undecs and kits is forcing me to go that way more and more often. I might still have some Chameleon laying around, it might be interesting to throw that stubborn BLI hopper in it and see what happens. But I think my only hope on those things is to use the alcohol to strip the lettering, and then just paint over the base gray with Scalecoat. Either that or get out the grit blaster.

Andy


Re: NP Stock Cars represented by Central Valley kit

Alexander Schneider Jr
 

Richard, thanks for sharing your knowledge. I look forward to the photo.

 

Alex Schneider

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Richard Hendrickson
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 7:21 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NP Stock Cars represented by Central Valley kit

 



On Dec 22, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Alex Schneider <aschneiderjr@...> wrote:



 

I’ve had a CV stock car kit for some time and just got around to examining it. I have heard that it is too wide and that the NPHA offers replacement ends, but I guess I am more in doubt about the sides. The cars have lettering boards reading NORTHERN PACIFIC to the left of the doors and the car number to the right. There is a rectangular lettering board with capacity, load limit and light weight over the right truck, but no board over the left. Seehttp://www.shop.cvmw.com/StockCarKit-1001.htm  This generally conforms to the equipment diagram on the NPHA web site. It also conforms to a photo of #83083 dated 7/13/47 on page 124 of “The Postwar Freight Car Fleet” by Larry Kline and Ted Culotta.

 

When did the location of reporting marks, number and capacity data over the left truck become mandatory? Are any photos of these cars with such relocated lettering available? If this arrangement was still in use in late 1952 I’m OK, but there is no reason to build an anachronism.

Alex, the location of reporting marks, numbers, and weight data above the left truck was AAR standard practice but was never mandatory, at least not in the period covered by this list, and the lettering arrangement you describe continued to be used by the NP for many years.  I have a photo of an NP stock car with that lettering arrangement dated 1974.  I’m sending you off-list a scan of a photo taken in October of 1952.

 

Richard Hendrickson






Re: NP Stock Cars represented by Central Valley kit

npin53
 

Just a couple pointers regarding the brake parts and lumber door included with the central Valley kit.

83250-83499 built in 1930, and 82750-83249 built in 1931-32.  Miner Ideal hand brake and lumber door on A end.

82500-82749 built in 1936, used Ajax brake and had NO lumber door.

Aaron Gjermundson


Re: NP Stock Cars represented by Central Valley kit

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 22, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Alex Schneider <aschneiderjr@...> wrote:


I’ve had a CV stock car kit for some time and just got around to examining it. I have heard that it is too wide and that the NPHA offers replacement ends, but I guess I am more in doubt about the sides. The cars have lettering boards reading NORTHERN PACIFIC to the left of the doors and the car number to the right. There is a rectangular lettering board with capacity, load limit and light weight over the right truck, but no board over the left. Seehttp://www.shop.cvmw.com/StockCarKit-1001.htm  This generally conforms to the equipment diagram on the NPHA web site. It also conforms to a photo of #83083 dated 7/13/47 on page 124 of “The Postwar Freight Car Fleet” by Larry Kline and Ted Culotta.

 

When did the location of reporting marks, number and capacity data over the left truck become mandatory? Are any photos of these cars with such relocated lettering available? If this arrangement was still in use in late 1952 I’m OK, but there is no reason to build an anachronism.

Alex, the location of reporting marks, numbers, and weight data above the left truck was AAR standard practice but was never mandatory, at least not in the period covered by this list, and the lettering arrangement you describe continued to be used by the NP for many years.  I have a photo of an NP stock car with that lettering arrangement dated 1974.  I’m sending you off-list a scan of a photo taken in October of 1952.

Richard Hendrickson



Re: Klasing Hand Brake

bierglaeser@...
 

Sure!  Look at the B end of the Red Caboose Mather refrigerator car.  The Red Caboose version has a horizontal wheel which protrudes above the roof in  the manner of the Plate A hand brakes.  The one a-comin' is essentially the same hand brake with a vertical wheel.  In the case of the former power is transmitted from the hand wheel by means of bevel gears while in  the latter the power  is transmitted by pinion and gear.


I have been asked not to reveal the manufacturer of the new hand brake.  My understanding is that marketing and distribution issues are not completely resolved.


Gene Green

wearing a broad grin 


Re: Chameleon paint stripper

John Sykes III
 

I have not found Chameleon in a couple of years now, but found that ScaleCoat Wash-Away paint stripper is identical chemically to Chameleon.


They both were/are 91% isopropyl alcohol and butyl cellosolve (a/k/a 2-butoxy ethanol) at about a 10:1 ratio of alcohol to butyl.  A gallon of butyl cellosolve costs about $45 at your local Sherwin Williams paint store, but will make enough stripper for a good size club for 20 years.


Take a pint of 91% isopropyl alcohol from WalMart and remove about 40 ml from the bottle.  Replace the 40 ml of alcohol with 40 ml of butyl cellosolve and you are about ready to go (I think I upped the butyl in my batch to about 60 ml for a little more punch, but be careful what kind of plastic you use it on, this higher concentration could cause problems depending on the type of plastic).


As you can see, if you are not a mad scientist like I am, buy the ScaleCoat Wash Away.


-- John


Re: Is the InterMountain 40' 6" AAR NYC boxcar accurate out

Rich C
 

Clark, I have heard about that before, but it is not the case for this car.

Rich Christie


On Sunday, December 22, 2013 5:06 PM, "cepropst@q.com" wrote:
 
IM in notorious for putting actuate paint schemes on the wrong cars.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa



NP Stock Cars represented by Central Valley kit

Alexander Schneider Jr
 

I’ve had a CV stock car kit for some time and just got around to examining it. I have heard that it is too wide and that the NPHA offers replacement ends, but I guess I am more in doubt about the sides. The cars have lettering boards reading NORTHERN PACIFIC to the left of the doors and the car number to the right. There is a rectangular lettering board with capacity, load limit and light weight over the right truck, but no board over the left. See http://www.shop.cvmw.com/StockCarKit-1001.htm  This generally conforms to the equipment diagram on the NPHA web site. It also conforms to a photo of #83083 dated 7/13/47 on page 124 of “The Postwar Freight Car Fleet” by Larry Kline and Ted Culotta.

 

When did the location of reporting marks, number and capacity data over the left truck become mandatory? Are any photos of these cars with such relocated lettering available? If this arrangement was still in use in late 1952 I’m OK, but there is no reason to build an anachronism.

 

Thanks.

 

Alex Schneider


Re: Is the InterMountain 40' 6" AAR NYC boxcar accurate out

Clark Propst
 

IM in notorious for putting actuate paint schemes on the wrong cars.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: Is the InterMountain 40' 6" AAR NYC boxcar accurate out of box?

Charlie Duckworth
 

Steve

Thanks for the link.  Looks like IM followed the prototype lettering very closely.  


Charlie Duckworth


Re: Is the InterMountain 40' 6" AAR NYC boxcar accurate out of box?

Charlie Duckworth
 

Richard, thanks for the verification on the model and the photo.  


Charlie Duckworth


Re: Chameleon paint stripper

tjcataldo
 

ok bill im looking for more too

  tom


On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 12:46 PM, <bill@...> wrote:
 

Tom,


Since wonderful NEO only lets me reply to the list., please reply directly to me at bill@...


Thanks

Bill




--
Thomas  j Cataldo


Re: Start of EJ & I orange stenciling scheme

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 22, 2013, at 10:45 AM, Larry Sexton <SSEXTON9@...> wrote:

Can anyone provide the date, approximate or otherwise, when EJ & I started their orange stenciling scheme with the “Around Chicago” route map? Thanks in advance for any help.
Larry, those cars were photographed a lot when they first appeared, for obvious reasons, and I have several photos of them taken in 1950, the earliest having a reweigh date of 4-50.  So I would be surprised if they appeared any earlier than that.

Richard Hendrickson



Re: Chameleon paint stripper

Bill Lane
 

Tom,


Since wonderful NEO only lets me reply to the list., please reply directly to me at bill@...


Thanks

Bill


Re: Is the InterMountain 40' 6" AAR NYC boxcar accurate out of box?

pennsylvania1954
 

Charlie--There is a NEW 9-44 photo of 159000 at
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/nyc-159000.jpg .

Not a great photo, certainly not for paint, but useful for dimension data and details.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL


Re: Is the InterMountain 40' 6" AAR NYC boxcar accurate out of box?

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 22, 2013, at 10:57 AM, omahaduck@... wrote:

Was looking for a quick relaxing build yesterday and came across an InterMountain NYC. 10' 6" boxcar numbered 159323.  Date by the light weight shows new 9-44.  Lettering is crisp so I'd like to keep it in it's factory lettering if its correct for an NYC car.  Lot number above the NYV oval is 734-B.   It also includes a black roof.


How close is this model to the NYC prototype boxcar from 9-44?

Charlie, the car number, date built, and lot number all match.  Number series for that lot was 159000-159999, built by the Despatch Shops in East Rochester NY.  The only thing I’d be uncertain about is the black roof, but some NYC box cars built ca. 1944-’45 did have black roofs and if IM went to the trouble to paint the roof black it’s likely that they had prototype information to that effect.  The one photo I have of a car in that series is a B/W shot taken in ’56 and it’s sufficiently weathered that I can’t tell whether the roof was black.  I’ll send you a scan of that photo off-list.


Richard Hendrickson


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