Date   
Re: NP Stock Cars represented by Central Valley kit

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Thanks for the information on using sand as bedding.  I don't  think that this is common knowledge.

Merry Christmas all.

Bill Pardie


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Steve Sandifer
Date:12/23/2013 11:32 AM (GMT-10:00)
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] NP Stock Cars represented by Central Valley kit

 

Be careful with the "straw" stuff. Straw was commonly used in cold climates
with hogs, but sand was the most common bedding in stock cars.

__________________________________________________________
Steve Sandifer
12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477
713-376-0684
www.ssandifer.com

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
robev1630@...
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 2:34 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] NP Stock Cars represented by Central Valley kit


Alex,
You would also want the Spring 2006 Volume 25 Issue #1 of the Manistreeter.
Our own Ed Ursem covered the correcting of the original kit car extremely
well. His 82990 model does not have the lumber door. Mine were originally
built when I trusted model manufacturers for accuracy, so I have the lumber
doors. Having built 3 of the original kits, I am quite familiar with all of
their assembly issues.

Of note I can tell you the ends and sides need to have their beveled edge
cleaned up to fit properly. They have a bevel but at the extreme end is a
right angle that needs to go. I used a 1" wide nail board to sand the edges
and parting lines. You can get the boards from Walgreens or most cosmetic
shops. If you look closely on the roof top and underside, you will see a
centerline to use in sectioning.

I used cast metal cows for weight. I'll use sheet lead next time. The
Dyna-Models cows cost me $15 back then. Woodland Scenics tall grass was
chopped with a single edge razor to make hay for the floor covering. The
usual plastic for metal grabs and 23 years later, PanPastel for the roof and
some highlights on the side boards and trucks.
The photos I later found showed various shades of Gray and Oxide Red on the
horizontal boards .I duplicated these with glazes of gray and Flat Clear
Poly Scale. Hand mixing on a recycled margarine tub lid used as a palette.

I have found photos available on the web including the Fallen Flags site
(Jim Sands) and RailPictures.net ( Jeff Terry). Decals were available from
Champ and A-Line

Sincerely,
Rob Manley
Midwest Mod-U-Trak
"Better modeling through personal embarassment"
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Alex
Schneider
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 1:09 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] NP Stock Cars represented by Central Valley kit


Richard, thanks for sharing your knowledge. I look forward to the photo.

Alex Schneider

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Richard Hendrickson
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 7:21 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NP Stock Cars represented by Central Valley kit


On Dec 22, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Alex Schneider <aschneiderjr@...>
wrote:

I've had a CV stock car kit for some time and just got around to examining
it. I have heard that it is too wide and that the NPHA offers replacement
ends, but I guess I am more in doubt about the sides. The cars have
lettering boards reading NORTHERN PACIFIC to the left of the doors and the
car number to the right. There is a rectangular lettering board with
capacity, load limit and light weight over the right truck, but no board
over the left. Seehttp://www.shop.cvmw.com/StockCarKit-1001.htm This
generally conforms to the equipment diagram on the NPHA web site. It also
conforms to a photo of #83083 dated 7/13/47 on page 124 of "The Postwar
Freight Car Fleet" by Larry Kline and Ted Culotta.

When did the location of reporting marks, number and capacity data over the
left truck become mandatory? Are any photos of these cars with such
relocated lettering available? If this arrangement was still in use in late
1952 I'm OK, but there is no reason to build an anachronism.
Alex, the location of reporting marks, numbers, and weight data above the
left truck was AAR standard practice but was never mandatory, at least not
in the period covered by this list, and the lettering arrangement you
describe continued to be used by the NP for many years. I have a photo of
an NP stock car with that lettering arrangement dated 1974. I'm sending you
off-list a scan of a photo taken in October of 1952.

Richard Hendrickson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic

Fulfilling My Duties as STMFC Owner

Mikebrock
 

First, to fulfill one of my duties as STMFC Owner, I will paraphrase the old Beetle Bailey cartoon's sergeant: You Will have a Merry Christmas.

Among my other duties at this time of the year is to give the extended weather forecast for Cocoa Beach, FL...particularly during the period Jan 9-12 and Prototype Rails:

Sunny with a slight breeze out of the southeast. High temp: 78�

I also need to announce that the hotel is nearly sold out. If you are unable to get our $100 rate, take whatever is offered and I will get it changed to the $100 rate. Please note that when you contact the hotel for reservations you are actually talking with someone off site and they cannot increase the block size. Only the hotel sales staff can do that. Unfortunately, due to hotel renovations [ they are upgrading sleeping rooms one floor at a time ], the usual number of rooms is not available this year. To add to that, we are currently significantly ahead of any previous year in hotel room reservations and pre registrations.

COCOA BEACH HILTON OCEANFRONT
1550 N. Atlantic Ave. [Highway A1A], COCOA BEACH, FL.
Phone: 800-526-2609 or 321-799-0003.
Refer to Prototype Rails for $100 Room Rate.

Registration
Early registration $35, Please make your check payable to "Prototype Rails" and send to: Marty Megregian 480 Gails Way Merritt Island, FL 32953.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner and Prototype Rails Boss and primary target when things don't go right.

Re: FCCC box cars

Edward
 

US built freight cars for export to Cuba met then current AAR and ICC requirements. They were sent over US railroads in regular freight trains to port(s) where they were put aboard ships for Havana.  Export passenger cars for Cuba, due to their length, likely went as deck loads on freighters.

Besides West India Fruit and Steamship, SeaTrain Lines was another outfit. It had a route to Havana from New York and I think out of Charleston SC as well. I'm not sure about New Orleans but it could be possible.

At the time US cars were going to Cuba with shipments, they usually came back with export loads to the US - until the Battista regime was overthrown by Fidel Castro. It could be that some US railroad equipment got stranded there from that revolution.


The matter of Cuban railways rolling stock not meeting US standards may have primarily concerned inadequate maintenance and repair. Otherwise, Cuba's main railways had the same standard gauge, Westinghouse air brake and AAR couplers that US railroads used.


The US exported a good deal of railroad rolling stock and motive power in the 1950s to most Central and South American countries as well as to Saudi Arabia, India, Mozambique, Belgian Congo, South Africa, Australia, Thailand and more. Besides export divisions for major builders like Pullman Standard, Pressed Steel Car, Magor and others, the Gregg Company of New York specialized in building unique export railway equipment.


When export freight or passenger equipment was built to the same standards as US equipment, it could travel in trains to the port of departure. A neat modeling idea here using brand new cars.


Equipment built to narrow or meter gauge with different couplers and brake systems would be blocked and shipped on flat cars as loads, often with their trucks  if 8 wheeled cars) separately boxed for the sea voyage. Most of these cars went as deck loads on ocean going freighters.


Some non-standard gauge cars, if they otherwise had US compatible brake systems and couplers could ride on temporary standard gauge trucks to a point of export. Their original design trucks would be boxed separately. Such cars were put aboard and blocked as deck loads on freighters as well. For example, passenger equipment for the Paulista and Central railroads in Brazil were shipped that way, with their cars arriving at export docks in US freight trains. Another different freight modeling idea.


Ed Bommer



FGE Cars

Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 


While on the subject of FGE cars, FGE ordered 125 reefers from MtV in 2-45. At the same time, WFE ordered 175 similar cars from MtV. WFEX 66625-66799 seem likely according to the ORER, but FGE isn't so simple. FGE 38450-38499 have very similar dimensions, but 35 were already in the series by 7-46, and the series is way short of 125 cars anyway. FGEX 38500-38634 was the next number block added. Does anyone have builder data and dates for WFEX or FGEX cars in the vicinity? I estimate the MtV cars were built in early 1947 based on surrounding orders.
 
Thanks,
Eric
 
 

Re: NP Stock Cars represented by Central Valley kit

Clark Cooper
 

Steve, thanks for the clinic link. Long-shot question: Do you know if there's an appropriately narrower truck to use for that?


I did notice that the NPRHA web site indicates 4 pairs for $12.50:

http://www1.storehost.com/stores/xq/xfm/store_id.615/page_id.23/Item_ID.137488/parent_ids.0,0,1/qx/store.htm

I placed an order for one set of ends, plus a copy of volume 25-1 of the Mainstreeter for Ed Ursem's article on narrowing these kits. Total with $5 shipping was $24.50.

-Clark Cooper
(the other, other Clark)

On Dec 24, 2013, at 9:51 AM, Steve Sandifer wrote:



For those who still have not built their cars, this page may be helpful.

http://atsfrr.net/resources/Sandifer/Clinics/Stk/Mod/CV.htm

One suggestion: The NP society sells the ends 2 pair for $12.50. However, they require a $20 minimum sale and tack on shipping of course. So one would have to buy 4 pair for $25 plus shipping, a costly investment if you only want to build one car. It makes much better economic sense (cents) for several people who only want one car to go together and buy enough for the group and share the costs.
______________
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
----- Original Message -----
From: pullmanboss@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 10:16 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] NP Stock Cars represented by Central Valley kit

Ed Ursem made the beautiful patterns for the cast resin correct width ends the NP Society sells. I did the casting until recently, must have done over 1000 pairs, and Aaron will be doing them now. Or will be, as soon as I get off my butt and send him the patterns and submasters.

Tom Madden

Re: FCCC box cars

Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 


These particular 600 box cars appear equal to any cars produced for U.S. service at the same time.
 
Eric
 
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve H
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 2:43 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: FCCC box cars

 

My brother works in the railroad logistics industry and he has told me that Cuban cars did not meet US safety standards and were not allowed to operate in the US. But US cars could operate on Cuban railroads.
 
Which may explain why Cuban railroads are not listed in the ORERs.
 
- Steve Hedlund, Everett WA


On Monday, December 23, 2013 9:38 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
 

NdeM freight cars are listed in the ORER. Were Cuban freight cars listed?
I can't find them.

Tim O'

--------------------------------------

   I'd guess they would need extra English lettering to ride the West India Fruit rail ferry.
   Was that an ICC interchange regulation?

 Evidently not. Mexican cars operated into the U.S. with all-Spanish dimensional data.
 Tony Thompson


Re: FGE Cars

Charles Hostetler
 

John Degnan wrote:


"Anyone know of an online resource or of a list or ORER indicating the type and number series of FGE cars that would have been in service around about 1957?"


John:


The table for FGEX from the January 1958 ORER is here:


http://cnwmodeling.blogspot.com/2013/12/fgex-reefers-january-1958-orer.html


Regards,


Charles Hostetler

Goshen, Ind.


Re: FGE Cars

Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 


At least a few years back there were a number of Official Railway Equipment Registers on-line. If you do a search, you may find exactly what you want.
 
Eric

Anyone know of an online resource or of a list or ORER indicating the type and number series of FGE cars that would have been in service around about 1957?
 
Thanks.
 
 
John Degnan

Re: NP Stock Cars represented by Central Valley kit

Rich C
 

Andy, I am willing to buy one to two of those end sets from you if you want to part with them.


Rich Christie


On Tuesday, December 24, 2013 8:43 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
 
Guy

They just called them "end doors". The ORER's also call them "end doors".
http://research.nprha.org/NP%20Stock%20Cars/Stock%20Cars%2040%20Ft.%2083250-83499.jpg

All of the stock car diagrams are here
http://research.nprha.org/NP%20Stock%20Cars/Forms/AllItems.aspx

Tim O'Connor

>Aaron and all,
>
>Curious if anyone has thoughts as to whether Northern Pacific referred to the end door on their stock cars as a lumber door or a drover's door?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Guy Wilber
>Reno, Nevada



Re: NP Stock Cars represented by Central Valley kit

James SANDIFER
 


For those who still have not built their cars, this page may be helpful.
 
 
One suggestion: The NP society sells the ends 2 pair for $12.50. However, they require a $20 minimum sale and tack on shipping of course. So one would have to buy 4 pair for $25 plus shipping, a costly investment if you only want to build one car. It makes much better economic sense (cents) for several people who only want one car to go together and buy enough for the group and share the costs. 
______________
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@...
Home: 12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX 77025, 713-667-9417

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 10:16 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] NP Stock Cars represented by Central Valley kit

 

Ed Ursem made the beautiful patterns for the cast resin correct width ends the NP Society sells. I did the casting until recently, must have done over 1000 pairs, and Aaron will be doing them now. Or will be, as soon as I get off my butt and send him the patterns and submasters.


Tom Madden

FGE Cars

John Degnan
 

Anyone know of an online resource or of a list or ORER indicating the type and number series of FGE cars that would have been in service around about 1957?
 
Thanks.
 
 
John Degnan
Scaler164@...
 

Re: NP Stock Cars represented by Central Valley kit

Tim O'Connor
 

Guy

They just called them "end doors". The ORER's also call them "end doors".
http://research.nprha.org/NP%20Stock%20Cars/Stock%20Cars%2040%20Ft.%2083250-83499.jpg

All of the stock car diagrams are here
http://research.nprha.org/NP%20Stock%20Cars/Forms/AllItems.aspx

Tim O'Connor

Aaron and all,

Curious if anyone has thoughts as to whether Northern Pacific referred to the end door on their stock cars as a lumber door or a drover's door?

Thanks,

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada

Re: Chameleon paint stripper

John Sykes III
 

Andy:


I got the MSDS for ScaleCoat Wash-Away.  It is the same as Chameleon within a percent of this or that.


-- John

Re: NP Stock Cars represented by Central Valley kit

Guy Wilber
 

Aaron and all,

Curious if anyone has thoughts as to whether Northern Pacific referred to the end door on their stock cars as a lumber door or a drover's door?  

Thanks,

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada 


On Dec 22, 2013, at 7:14 PM, <npin53@...> wrote:

 

Just a couple pointers regarding the brake parts and lumber door included with the central Valley kit.

83250-83499 built in 1930, and 82750-83249 built in 1931-32.  Miner Ideal hand brake and lumber door on A end.

82500-82749 built in 1936, used Ajax brake and had NO lumber door.

Aaron Gjermundson

Re: FCCC box cars

Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 

No, they weren't.
 
Eric
 
 

NdeM freight cars are listed in the ORER. Were Cuban freight cars listed?
I can't find them.

Tim O'

--------------------------------------

   I'd guess they would need extra English lettering to ride the West India Fruit rail ferry.
   Was that an ICC interchange regulation?

 Evidently not. Mexican cars operated into the U.S. with all-Spanish dimensional data.
 Tony Thompson

Re: L&N 40' box car question.

Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 

So, L&N ordered 400 box cars each from Mt. Vernon and ACF in 7-45. The ACF lot was 2888. The MtV order would have been 150000-15399, but was cancelled. Then in 12-45, L&N ordered another 400 cars from ACF, lot 2950, which were delivered as 15000-15399. Nevertheless, L&N placed another order with MtV/PSC in 7-46 for 1000 cars. which became L&N 15800-16799.
 

My notes, probably from Ed Hawkins --

Lot 2950 is for 15000-15399
Lot 2888 is for 15400-15799

The 15600-15799 doors are 7 panel Superior. The Youngstown doors are all type YSD-1.

The Mt Vernon cars are 15800-16799, all with Youngstown YSD-2A doors.

The only photo I've ever seen of any of the above was in Model Railroading, April 1989.
There's a photo of the Speedwitch model here:
http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=49513

Tim O'
Recent Activity:

Re: NP Stock Cars represented by Central Valley kit

Douglas Harding
 

My understanding is the CV car is 1’ too wide, designed this way to accommodate the too wide trucks and have the car look right with proper overhang sitting on HO trucks. To narrow the car requires removing a section from both the roof and the floor, and using the new ends. It is not noticeable in a passing train when viewing from the side. Looking down from the top in a string of correct width cars you can see the excess width. And it is also noticeable if you built close clearance structures along your tracks or sidings, ie stockpens.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

Re: FCCC box cars

Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 


Thanks. I also found a photo of FCCC 17204 built 1947 which was identical. FCCC 17332 is different though (taller, different end) and I suspect 17190 is one of the 1947 cars despite what the book says.
 
Eric

There's an image of the 1952 boxcars on http://www.camagueycuba.org/fccc/5DelMaterialRodante.htm but no number series.


I'd guess they would need extra English lettering to ride the West India Fruit rail ferry. Was that an ICC interchange regulation?   


Phil lark, Catarman, Philippines.

Re: Milwaukee 40' combo door cars

Chad Boas
 

Ed,

Thanks, that was what I was looking for. The first and last series had the same type of doors. I didn't know what the range of numbers were in each series.

I have parts made for the Youngstown door versions. I need to work on the flush door with the 4 door pipes and lower side sill with the different tracks.

Chad Boas

Re: FCCC box cars

Steve H <nwicfan@...>
 

My brother works in the railroad logistics industry and he has told me that Cuban cars did not meet US safety standards and were not allowed to operate in the US. But US cars could operate on Cuban railroads.
 
Which may explain why Cuban railroads are not listed in the ORERs.
 
- Steve Hedlund, Everett WA


On Monday, December 23, 2013 9:38 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
 

NdeM freight cars are listed in the ORER. Were Cuban freight cars listed?
I can't find them.

Tim O'

--------------------------------------

   I'd guess they would need extra English lettering to ride the West India Fruit rail ferry.
   Was that an ICC interchange regulation?

 Evidently not. Mexican cars operated into the U.S. with all-Spanish dimensional data.
 Tony Thompson