Date   

Re: NP Stock Cars represented by Central Valley kit

WILLIAM PARDIE
 


Along with the discussion of the Central Valley Northern Pacific stock car it should be noted 
that the Northern Pacific Historical Society also produced a resin stock car kit for the NP
83750 - 83999  truss rod stock car.  This is an excellent kit and is the "proper width".

Along the same lines the Union Pacific society has a kit for a double deck Harriman stock car.

Neither of these cars had much publicity.  We should note that there are some excellent kits
out there that are under the radar.

Bill Pardie

On Dec 25, 2013, at 7:02 AM, <npin53@...> <npin53@...> wrote:

 

Builder's photographs show the 1930 built stock cars with trucks that match Tahoe #102/202. 

http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/tahoe/FLYER102withusers.pdf


The 1936 cars as built had trucks with a really wide spring spacing similar to Tahoe #108/208.



http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/tahoe/FLYER108withusers.pdf


There is a picture on the back cover of an Mainstreeter, with of a car getting trucks switch out, and it was getting T-section Bettendorf type.


I can share more information off list if anyone is interested.


Aaron




Re: Kit bash help

Ed Hawkins
 

On Dec 25, 2013, at 9:23 AM, <srrfan1401@...> wrote:

I am contemplating a bashing project for auto or furniture cars.  I
want to use the Red Caboose 40 ft steel cars and could use some help
with photos of candidates.

If anyone has photos of any of the following cars I would appreciate a
scan.  These should all be 10'-0" IH cars with 12 foot door openings.
 Hopefully I can find the ends and door types from the photos and can
get some help regarding trucks, roof walks and brake wheels once I get
the candidate list narrowed down to a doable project.
1. GM&O 30000-30025
2. L&N 46200-46399; 46900-47749
3. N&W 49000-49299
4. NYC 48057-48540; 54002-55595; 58000-58999; 67011-67602(end door
car); 61058-61686(end door car); 59000-59999(end door car)
Fenton,
The series GM&O 30000-30024 (originally GM&N) was built by ACF in 3-37
and had single-sheathed sides similar to the single door SS box car
20141 shown on p. 37 RP CYC Vol. 23 but with double doors.

Steve Johnson replied on the L&N cars, so I'll skip what I had written
except saying there's a photo of steel rebuild 46900 on p. 343 of the
1953 Car Builders' Cyclopedia showing a 3/4 view & the end doors.

N&W 49000-49199 were class BSa, 200 cars rebuilt auto cars in late-1934
to 1935. They were originally built by the railroad in 1927-1930 as
class BS auto cars in series 50000-51999. Photos of 49001 (side) and
49189 (3-4B) are on the N&W H.S. web site, and N&W 49048 is shown on the Virginia Tech website. The 49189 shows a Dreadnaught end (early
square-corner type, unlike the later 4-5 DN ends of the R.C. model), a
radial roof, and vertical-staff hand brake.

N&W 49200-49299 were class B2 round-roof auto cars built 11-36 by
Magor. A builder's photo is shown on p. 142 of the 1940 CBC and
in-service photos shown on p. 92-93 RP CYC Vol. 23.

Regarding the NYC cars in your list, many of them were USRA steel cars
renumbered and/or rebuilt and shown in the roster starting p. 90 RP CYC
Volume 21. Any photos that we could find were published in that
article. Anyway, I hope this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: L&N 40' box car question.

Steven D Johnson
 

Eric,

 

I don’t know if you need photos of any of the L&N Mt. Vernon-built cars being discussed, but the L&N Collection, University of Louisville Archives has 8 X 10 black and white photos of these:

 

No. 16626 – builder’s photo, ¾ view, printing at the bottom reads “50 Ton Steel Sheathed Box Cars, Mt. Vernon Car Manufacturing Division, Pressed Steel Car Company, Inc., Negative No. M-283 Job No. 10558”

 

No. 16576 – an L&N photo (3/4 view) showing the car in the “Friendship Train” paint scheme.  I’d love to see a color photo of this car, and have an HO model of it!

 

I can scan the photocopies I have.  You can also order high-res scans from UofL. 

 

 

Steve Johnson

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Eric Neubauer
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 6:26 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] L&N 40' box car question.

 

 

So, L&N ordered 400 box cars each from Mt. Vernon and ACF in 7-45. The ACF lot was 2888. The MtV order would have been 150000-15399, but was cancelled. Then in 12-45, L&N ordered another 400 cars from ACF, lot 2950, which were delivered as 15000-15399. Nevertheless, L&N placed another order with MtV/PSC in 7-46 for 1000 cars. which became L&N 15800-16799.

 

My notes, probably from Ed Hawkins --

Lot 2950 is for 15000-15399
Lot 2888 is for 15400-15799

The 15600-15799 doors are 7 panel Superior. The Youngstown doors are all type YSD-1.

The Mt Vernon cars are 15800-16799, all with Youngstown YSD-2A doors.

The only photo I've ever seen of any of the above was in Model Railroading, April 1989.
There's a photo of the Speedwitch model here:
http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=49513

Tim O'
Recent Activity:


Re: Kit bash help - L&N boxcars

Steven D Johnson
 

Fenton,

 

L&N 46200-46299 – built by Mt. Vernon 1929, outside braced, wood sides – have ca. 1942 car diagram and small stenciling diagram

L&N 46300-46300 – built by Mt. Vernon 1929, outside braced, wood sides – have ca. 1942 car diagram and small stenciling diagram 

L&N 46900-46999 – rebuilt in 1941 by L&N to steel cars from cars taken from L&N 7500-7999 built by Mt. Vernon in 1930 – have ca. 1942 car diagram and photocopy of page #371 from the 1957 Car and Locomotive Cyclopedia showing photo of #46900 and drawing of the Camel end door fixtures

L&N 47000-47749 – built by Mt. Vernon 1929, outside braced, wood sides – have ca. 1942 car diagram and photocopy of builder’s photo of #47643 and small stenciling diagram

 

Let me know if any of this material would be useful and I will photocopy or scan it for you.

 

Steve Johnson

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of srrfan1401@...
Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2013 9:24 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Kit bash help

 

 

I am contemplating a bashing project for auto or furniture cars.  I want to use the Red Caboose 40 ft steel cars and could use some help with photos of candidates.

If anyone has photos of any of the following cars I would appreciate a scan.  These should all be 10'-0" IH cars with 12 foot door openings.  Hopefully I can find the ends and door types from the photos and can get some help regarding trucks, roof walks and brake wheels once I get the candidate list narrowed down to a doable project.

1. GM&O 30000-30025

2. L&N 46200-46399; 46900-47749

3. N&W 49000-49299

4. NYC 48057-48540; 54002-55595; 58000-58999; 67011-67602(end door car); 61058-61686(end door car); 59000-59999(end door car)

Thanks in advance

Fenton Wells


Re: NP Stock Cars represented by Central Valley kit

npin53
 

Builder's photographs show the 1930 built stock cars with trucks that match Tahoe #102/202. 

http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/tahoe/FLYER102withusers.pdf


The 1936 cars as built had trucks with a really wide spring spacing similar to Tahoe #108/208.

http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/tahoe/FLYER108withusers.pdf


There is a picture on the back cover of an Mainstreeter, with of a car getting trucks switch out, and it was getting T-section Bettendorf type.


I can share more information off list if anyone is interested.


Aaron


Re: FGE Cars

Bill Welch
 

Yes.


Bill Welch


Kit bash help

O Fenton Wells
 

I am contemplating a bashing project for auto or furniture cars.  I want to use the Red Caboose 40 ft steel cars and could use some help with photos of candidates.

If anyone has photos of any of the following cars I would appreciate a scan.  These should all be 10'-0" IH cars with 12 foot door openings.  Hopefully I can find the ends and door types from the photos and can get some help regarding trucks, roof walks and brake wheels once I get the candidate list narrowed down to a doable project.
1. GM&O 30000-30025
2. L&N 46200-46399; 46900-47749
3. N&W 49000-49299
4. NYC 48057-48540; 54002-55595; 58000-58999; 67011-67602(end door car); 61058-61686(end door car); 59000-59999(end door car)
Thanks in advance
Fenton Wells


Re: FGE Cars

Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 


Thanks, Bill. So you are saying FGEX 38375-38499 are the Mt. Vernon cars?
 
Eric

These Mt Vernon built steel sheathed cars, based on the FGE/WFE/BRE plywood and T&G sheathed Wartime design cars are covered in an article Ed Hawkins and I authored in Vol. 12 of the RP CYC.


A roster and brief description of the FGE/WFE/BRE/NX System's steel sheathed 40-foot cars is in the Files Section of this group somewhat misleadingly titled "FGE Swing Door..." It is misleading in that the tables include those cars built or rebuilt with sliding flush doors for the System also.


Regarding the FGE Mt. Vernon group, somewhat confusingly FGEX 38374, is an Aluminum car fit in between the last plywood cars and the Mt Vernon built cars. Strangely it never operated in revenue service with this number as it was renumbered FGEX 40000 before it left its birthplace of the Indiana Harbor shops. It was in service for a long time and when rebuilt had a permanent unslung heater installed. It road on Roller Bearing Andrews trucks.


Bill Welch


Re: NP Stock Cars represented by Central Valley kit

Steve SANDIFER
 

I used Accurail. Have not measured any others.


Sent by Steve Sandifer via the Samsung Galaxy S™III


-------- Original message --------
From: destorzek@...
Date: 12/24/2013 11:33 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NP Stock Cars represented by Central Valley kit


 




---In STMFC@{{emailDomain}}, <csc@...> wrote:

Steve, thanks for the clinic link. Long-shot question: Do you know if there's an appropriately narrower truck to use for that?

Well, Accurail trucks are very near scale width, within a scale inch or so, both the Andrews and the AAR "Bettendorf" trucks. I haven't measured some of the newer offerings... anyone measure the Tahoe trucks?

Merry Christmas

Dennis Storzek


Re: NP Stock Cars represented by Central Valley kit

destorzek@...
 




---In STMFC@{{emailDomain}}, <csc@...> wrote:

Steve, thanks for the clinic link. Long-shot question: Do you know if there's an appropriately narrower truck to use for that?

Well, Accurail trucks are very near scale width, within a scale inch or so, both the Andrews and the AAR "Bettendorf" trucks. I haven't measured some of the newer offerings... anyone measure the Tahoe trucks?

Merry Christmas

Dennis Storzek


Re: FGE Cars

Bill Welch
 

These Mt Vernon built steel sheathed cars, based on the FGE/WFE/BRE plywood and T&G sheathed Wartime design cars are covered in an article Ed Hawkins and I authored in Vol. 12 of the RP CYC.


A roster and brief description of the FGE/WFE/BRE/NX System's steel sheathed 40-foot cars is in the Files Section of this group somewhat misleadingly titled "FGE Swing Door..." It is misleading in that the tables include those cars built or rebuilt with sliding flush doors for the System also.


Regarding the FGE Mt. Vernon group, somewhat confusingly FGEX 38374, is an Aluminum car fit in between the last plywood cars and the Mt Vernon built cars. Strangely it never operated in revenue service with this number as it was renumbered FGEX 40000 before it left its birthplace of the Indiana Harbor shops. It was in service for a long time and when rebuilt had a permanent unslung heater installed. It road on Roller Bearing Andrews trucks.


Bill Welch


Re: Milwaukee 40' combo door cars

Chad Boas
 

Ed,

Do you have info on what hand brake and walk ways they had?

Thanks, Chad Boas


Re: Rutland RR Box Car red

Phillip Blancher <pblancher@...>
 

Hi Robert,

Paint varied from batch to batch and depending on when the cars were
painted, weathered differently. RRHS Member Bill Badger wrote a paint
guide in the Winter 1996(Vol 8, No 4) issue of "The Newsliner", the
Rutland Railroad Historical Society magazine. Bill also spoke to this
at length at the 2013 RRHS Annual Convention, which was held in
Burlington Vermont. The back issues is available to purchase from the
RRHS website (http://www.rutlandrr.org) and I can email Bill after
Christmas to see if he can forward a copy of his Powerpoint
presentation from the convention.

Cheers, and Merry Christmas!

Phillip

--
Phillip Blancher - Membership Chair
Rutland Railroad Historical Society
http://www.rutlandrr.org

--
Phillip Blancher
http://about.me/phillipblancher

On Tue, Dec 24, 2013 at 5:23 PM, Robert Bogie <robertb@...> wrote:
Does any one on the list know what paint would best represent the shade
of box car red used by the Rutland RR in the post WW2 period?

Regards,

Robert Bogie


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links



Re: Rutland RR Box Car red

Charles Hladik
 

 
Robert And Rich,
   Several photos that fellow Rutland Railroad Historical Society member Bill Badger sent me show a wide variation in colors from almost an orange to what looks like Floquil BCR. The vans (cabeese) were NYC FC red  or later almost Floquil caboose red (cherry).
Merry Christmas
Chuck Hladik
Rutland Railroad
Virginia Division

In a message dated 12/24/2013 5:34:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rhcdmc@... writes:
 

According to Funaro & Camerlengo, The Rutland's Freight Car color was called Cherry. They call for a 50/50 mix of Floquil Box Car Red and Caboose Red (The bright version).

Rich Christie


On Tuesday, December 24, 2013 4:23 PM, Robert Bogie wrote:
 
Does any one on the list know what paint would best represent the shade
of box car red used by the Rutland RR in the post WW2 period?

Regards,

Robert Bogie



Re: NP Stock Cars represented by Central Valley kit

Douglas Harding
 

Yes, sand, 1” or more, some railroads specified 2-4”. The ATSF called for 2” of sand, and noted that “cinders are very undesirable.”

 

Instructions for livestock bedding is contained in the AAR Pamphlet #19 “Methods for Loading and Handling Live Stock”. The copy I have was Issued 1925, revised 1942. Similar (if the not the same) instructions can be found in many livestock handling brochures published by the railroads themselves. I have found copies on the net, so they are out there.

 

Hay or straw was to be used in cold weather. If for hogs, the straw must be one foot high around the sides and ends of the car to act as a wind break. 1 ½ bales per deck, in extreme weather 2 bales. Bales to approximate 200lb in weight.

 

During stormy or severe weather the sides of the cars were to be papered or battened to provide additional protection while allowing for ventilation.

 

Cars were to be clean, in Canada disinfected, before each use. Soiled bedding was to be removed

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: Rutland RR Box Car red

 

According to Funaro & Camerlengo, The Rutland's Freight Car color was called Cherry. They call for a 50/50 mix of Floquil Box Car Red and Caboose Red (The bright version).

Rich Christie


On Tuesday, December 24, 2013 4:23 PM, Robert Bogie wrote:
 
Does any one on the list know what paint would best represent the shade
of box car red used by the Rutland RR in the post WW2 period?

Regards,

Robert Bogie



Rutland RR Box Car red

robertb@smartchat.net.au
 

Does any one on the list know what paint would best represent the shade of box car red used by the Rutland RR in the post WW2 period?

Regards,

Robert Bogie


Re: FGE Cars

Tim O'Connor
 


WFEX 66625-66799 were built by Mt Vernon in 1946 -- info from Clive Carter's
Mainline Modeler series April-May-June 1996.

The previous WFEX reefers were all plywood-sheathed cars:

  WFEX series 66400-66499 blt 1942 FGE SHOPS
  WFEX series 66500-66549 blt 1944 FGE SHOPS
  WFEX series 66550-66624 blt 1946 FGE SHOPS

Tim O'


At 12/24/2013 01:20 PM Tuesday, you wrote:

While on the subject of FGE cars, FGE ordered 125 reefers from MtV in 2-45. At the same time, WFE ordered 175 similar cars from MtV. WFEX 66625-66799 seem likely according to the ORER, but FGE isn't so simple. FGE 38450-38499 have very similar dimensions, but 35 were already in the series by 7-46, and the series is way short of 125 cars anyway. FGEX 38500-38634 was the next number block added. Does anyone have builder data and dates for WFEX or FGEX cars in the vicinity? I estimate the MtV cars were built in early 1947 based on surrounding orders.
 
Thanks,
Eric


Re: NP Stock Cars represented by Central Valley kit

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Thanks for the information on using sand as bedding.  I don't  think that this is common knowledge.

Merry Christmas all.

Bill Pardie


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Steve Sandifer
Date:12/23/2013 11:32 AM (GMT-10:00)
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] NP Stock Cars represented by Central Valley kit

 

Be careful with the "straw" stuff. Straw was commonly used in cold climates
with hogs, but sand was the most common bedding in stock cars.

__________________________________________________________
Steve Sandifer
12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477
713-376-0684
www.ssandifer.com

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
robev1630@...
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 2:34 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] NP Stock Cars represented by Central Valley kit


Alex,
You would also want the Spring 2006 Volume 25 Issue #1 of the Manistreeter.
Our own Ed Ursem covered the correcting of the original kit car extremely
well. His 82990 model does not have the lumber door. Mine were originally
built when I trusted model manufacturers for accuracy, so I have the lumber
doors. Having built 3 of the original kits, I am quite familiar with all of
their assembly issues.

Of note I can tell you the ends and sides need to have their beveled edge
cleaned up to fit properly. They have a bevel but at the extreme end is a
right angle that needs to go. I used a 1" wide nail board to sand the edges
and parting lines. You can get the boards from Walgreens or most cosmetic
shops. If you look closely on the roof top and underside, you will see a
centerline to use in sectioning.

I used cast metal cows for weight. I'll use sheet lead next time. The
Dyna-Models cows cost me $15 back then. Woodland Scenics tall grass was
chopped with a single edge razor to make hay for the floor covering. The
usual plastic for metal grabs and 23 years later, PanPastel for the roof and
some highlights on the side boards and trucks.
The photos I later found showed various shades of Gray and Oxide Red on the
horizontal boards .I duplicated these with glazes of gray and Flat Clear
Poly Scale. Hand mixing on a recycled margarine tub lid used as a palette.

I have found photos available on the web including the Fallen Flags site
(Jim Sands) and RailPictures.net ( Jeff Terry). Decals were available from
Champ and A-Line

Sincerely,
Rob Manley
Midwest Mod-U-Trak
"Better modeling through personal embarassment"
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Alex
Schneider
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 1:09 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] NP Stock Cars represented by Central Valley kit


Richard, thanks for sharing your knowledge. I look forward to the photo.

Alex Schneider

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Richard Hendrickson
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 7:21 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NP Stock Cars represented by Central Valley kit


On Dec 22, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Alex Schneider <aschneiderjr@...>
wrote:

I've had a CV stock car kit for some time and just got around to examining
it. I have heard that it is too wide and that the NPHA offers replacement
ends, but I guess I am more in doubt about the sides. The cars have
lettering boards reading NORTHERN PACIFIC to the left of the doors and the
car number to the right. There is a rectangular lettering board with
capacity, load limit and light weight over the right truck, but no board
over the left. Seehttp://www.shop.cvmw.com/StockCarKit-1001.htm This
generally conforms to the equipment diagram on the NPHA web site. It also
conforms to a photo of #83083 dated 7/13/47 on page 124 of "The Postwar
Freight Car Fleet" by Larry Kline and Ted Culotta.

When did the location of reporting marks, number and capacity data over the
left truck become mandatory? Are any photos of these cars with such
relocated lettering available? If this arrangement was still in use in late
1952 I'm OK, but there is no reason to build an anachronism.
Alex, the location of reporting marks, numbers, and weight data above the
left truck was AAR standard practice but was never mandatory, at least not
in the period covered by this list, and the lettering arrangement you
describe continued to be used by the NP for many years. I have a photo of
an NP stock car with that lettering arrangement dated 1974. I'm sending you
off-list a scan of a photo taken in October of 1952.

Richard Hendrickson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic


Fulfilling My Duties as STMFC Owner

Mikebrock
 

First, to fulfill one of my duties as STMFC Owner, I will paraphrase the old Beetle Bailey cartoon's sergeant: You Will have a Merry Christmas.

Among my other duties at this time of the year is to give the extended weather forecast for Cocoa Beach, FL...particularly during the period Jan 9-12 and Prototype Rails:

Sunny with a slight breeze out of the southeast. High temp: 78�

I also need to announce that the hotel is nearly sold out. If you are unable to get our $100 rate, take whatever is offered and I will get it changed to the $100 rate. Please note that when you contact the hotel for reservations you are actually talking with someone off site and they cannot increase the block size. Only the hotel sales staff can do that. Unfortunately, due to hotel renovations [ they are upgrading sleeping rooms one floor at a time ], the usual number of rooms is not available this year. To add to that, we are currently significantly ahead of any previous year in hotel room reservations and pre registrations.

COCOA BEACH HILTON OCEANFRONT
1550 N. Atlantic Ave. [Highway A1A], COCOA BEACH, FL.
Phone: 800-526-2609 or 321-799-0003.
Refer to Prototype Rails for $100 Room Rate.

Registration
Early registration $35, Please make your check payable to "Prototype Rails" and send to: Marty Megregian 480 Gails Way Merritt Island, FL 32953.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner and Prototype Rails Boss and primary target when things don't go right.

74881 - 74900 of 195610