Date   

Re: Rutland RR Box Car red

Don <riverman_vt@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Rich C <rhcdmc@...> wrote:

According to Funaro & Camerlengo, The Rutland's Freight Car color was called Cherry. They call for a 50/50 mix of Floquil Box Car Red and Caboose Red (The bright version).

Rich Christie

Steve Funaro is definitely out to lunch on this one. While some,
and ceertainly not all, of the Rutland cabeese were repainted in a
much brighter red in the late 1940's and early 1950's until the
cabeese began to be painted in the green and yellow of the diesels
and new Pullman-Standard PS-1 boxcars calling it "cherry" red might
be a bit of a stretch from the color photos I've seen over the years.
Additionally, in the 1960's and 1970's there were a lot of double sheathed Rutland 36 ft. and 40 ft. box cars around in various places around the system. I do not recall ever seeing one in the brighter red used on some of the cabeese, though I woould not conclude that it never happened. I would, however, conclude that it is highly unlikely. I'll try to find and post a photo of the Rutland 40 ft.
boxcar retored by the Strasburg R.R. which is probably as close a match as I have seen to what the survivors of the early 1970's looked like. This may be closer to an oxide red than anything else.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: CV Round Freight Car Roof

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@{{emailDomain}}, <guycwilber@...> wrote:

Richard wrote:

"It was a uniquely NP design and though I can’t say with assurance that it was never applied to other than NP cars, I’ve never seen any evidence of its use by other car owners."


"I am on the road and can't give the car series, but SOO used the identical roof on a series of box cars which is the only other owner I have heard of using the NP roof."


Jim Dick of the NP Historical Society is the guy with the documentation, but I'll give it a try from memory.

The NP's "circular roof" was patented by a gentleman named Robertson, who was an official in the NP's car department. Robertson's intention was to sell the roof industry-wide, and various correspondence from the NP files state at different times that the patented roof would be available from either Chicago-Cleveland or Hutchins, but there is no evidence that Hutchins company ever represented it.

The only road to use this roof other than the NP was the Soo Line, which specified it on all the boxcars they bought between 1926 and 1930, cars well represented by Sunshine kits. The Soo also used this roof on ten milk cars they constructed in their own shops in 1925.

Looking at the Robertson patent, the sheet metal is almost incidental, and the patent makes no claims on the design of the sheet metal covering. The crux of the patent is a system to key the wood roof sheathing so that it acted as one large shear panel, to counteract "weaving", the twisting of the carbody that caused the roof to rack out of square first one way, then the other. This racking was found to quickly wear the sheet steel panels that were just becoming popular as the weather covering of car roofs, and Mr. Robertson's design may be the first to address it.

Unfortunately, the other roof manufacturers took a different tack, designing flexible joints into their second generation of outside metal roofs, and Robertson's invention never really went anywhere. It did, however, appear to work, and most cars roofed with the Robertson design roofs kept them their entire lives.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Sanborn maps [Was historical maps}...

Dennis Storzek
 

Interesting comments, Jack, to which I'll add...


The Sanborn maps show railroad tracks, since proximity to the track could affect fire hazards, however, there is no guarantee that the track arrangement is correct. I found this out by accident after I obtained a copy of the sheet that showed the terminal of the Soo Line Eau Claire branch. It showed the main track coming off the Eau Claire River bridge, the turntable, and the turntable lead CROSSING the main track and continuing as a dead end spur, with no other connection. Luckily, at that time I still had an 'old-timer" I could interview, and specifically asked about this track arrangement. Turns out both tracks joined the main with turnouts, the switch points being only a couple feet apart. The cartographer obviously had trouble interpreting the field notes, and just drew it as an acute angle crossing, since it was the location of the track that was important, not the actual arrangement. So, beware.


Dennis Storzek


Sanborn maps [Was historical maps}...

Jack Burgess
 

When Sanborn was still in business, they gave a complete set of state maps to at least one public agency in every state. In California, UC Berkeley has a set and, I think, the Huntington Library in southern California. If you visit the Map Room at UC Berkeley, you can make all of the photocopies you want for the price of the copies. But, for many years, you could also download, for free, copies of the Sanborn maps that you want directly from Sanborn through their website.

 

These maps were prepared so that insurance agents could prepare quotes for fire insurance. As such, they recorded not only the size of the buildings (and were updated as needed to stay current) but things which would influence the cost of fire insurance including building materials, building height, fire hydrants, etc. Some of this information was provided by the color of the buildings and other items by codes.

 

An index to the code is at

 

http://cluster3.lib.berkeley.edu/EART/images/sand2.jpg

 

Unfortunately, the historic Sanborn company was purchased several years ago by a company that now sells the original Sanborn maps. Back when I was working, consultants hired by companies that were looking at vacant properties for potential development would come to our City engineering office asking for historic aerial maps. In addition to getting copies of the Sanborn maps, they were looking for any potential hazardous chemical problems for the property they were investigating due to then-demolished buildings. I suspect that the company that purchased Sanborn figured that they could make money by selling the maps that were once available for free to the same companies that were investigating vacant properties.

 

A couple of interesting sidebar stories. Many years ago, I bought an expensive company store pin issued by the Yosemite Lumber Company on eBay which, I think, was to allow their employees at the lumber mill to get free meals in the company dining room. The seller contacted me and said that, if I'd tell him why I spent so much money on this pin, he'd send me a free additional "prize". Of course, I told him of my interest in both the Yosemite Valley Railroad and the Yosemite Lumber Company. He fulfilled his promise and including with my pin a print of a Sanborn map of the entire Merced Falls company town. This particular Sanborn map was not included in any index of California Sanborn maps that I have seen so my copy might be the only one in existence. Obviously, it was prepared specifically for an agent who needed to quote fire insurance for this company town. (The town never had a fire.) This map allowed me to not only draft plans for the town but also accurately draw plans for many of the structures in town.

 

The other story. Back when you could download maps for free from Sanborn, I downloaded every map that I could find for any town on the railroad. One of these maps, even though it was filed under "Merced", was actually for the Yosemite Portland Cement plant a couple of miles outside Merced. The Yosemite Valley Railroad served this plant, not only switching rock cars of limestone from an online quarry into the plant but also switching loaded box cars with bags of Portland cement out of the plant and shipping them out on the SP.

 

Several years ago, this large plant was in being demolished when I received an e-mail from an environmental engineer working on the project with a question. While doing onsite demolition, crews hit a concrete underground bunker. They pulled back, not knowing what it was (a logical and proper thing to do) and went on to other work. The question of what they hit was assigned to the environmental engineer who was charged with making sure that the demolition didn't expose any unknown hazards. That is when he e-mailed me, providing me with the general area occupied by this bunker and asking if I had any idea what it might be. I quickly consulted my Sanborn map of the site and, given where they found it, told him that I thought that it was an underground oil bunker which, given the dates when the plant was in operation, meant that it was used for Bunker C, now considered a hazardous material. I e-mailed him a copy of my map but I have no question that they uncovered that Bunker C storage tank. That had to cost the property owner a lot.

 

They later found lead (another hazardous material) on the property which I helped another engineer understand why but  that is another story...

 

Jack Burgess

 

Many county libraries and universities have access to the Sanborn fire maps.  I found that there are maps available for 1919 covering the General Petroleum Corporation and 1926 covering the Central Manufacturing district.  Generally you have to have a library card to access the maps.  Prior to the internet age, I went to UC Berkeley and printed out the needed maps. 

 

Proquest will sell individual maps.  Not sure of the price.  In my research of northern California, maps were often updated and info could be gleaned for a later time period.

 

Hope this helps,

Gary Ray


Re: historical maps

Gary Ray
 

Many county libraries and universities have access to the Sanborn fire maps.  I found that there are maps available for 1919 covering the General Petroleum Corporation and 1926 covering the Central Manufacturing district.  Generally you have to have a library card to access the maps.  Prior to the internet age, I went to UC Berkeley and printed out the needed maps. 

 

Proquest will sell individual maps.  Not sure of the price.  In my research of northern California, maps were often updated and info could be gleaned for a later time period.

 

Hope this helps,

Gary Ray

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Jack Burgess
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 11:29 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] RE: historical maps

 




If you are looking for free, historical USGS maps, go to:

 

http://store.usgs.gov/b2c_usgs/usgs/maplocator/%28xcm=r3standardpitrex_prd&layout=6_1_61_50_2&uiarea=2&ctype=areaDetails&carea=0000000009%29/.do

 

If you type "Vernon, California" in the search box, you'll get the general area. Then left click on the red highlighter. You'll get a list of available maps with the date of the map. If you sign up with the site (do that first), you can download any of the maps for free.

 

Jack Burgess

 

Tim

Thanks for that link. Too bad the RR maps don't cover post 1930. Looking for1930-1980 around Vernon Ca. Or is my lack of computer skills not letting me find them. LOL
 
Andy Jackson
Bellflower CA





(No subject)

Chad Boas
 

All,
I added photos of my mew kit for the Milwaukee combo door cars. This kit will do the 29000-29399 series and 29500-29999 series cars with the Youngstown doors. In the photo of the two cars, the top car is built with an Intermountain PS-1 with the 8' door opening and the lower on is built with the Branchline AAR box car with an 8'door. I will also be offering the PS-1 with the Superior doors.
Also, I will be offering doors for the 18000-18176 rebuilds where they took off the plug door and replaced it with a sliding door.
The kits will be $10. The replacement sliding doors for the 18000 series cars will be $4.
MaskIsland has decals for these cars and I can include them in with the kit for $4 a set.
As always, contact me Off List for ordering.
Thanks, Chad Boas


Southern 53' Mount Vernon build

hubert mask
 

Pleased to announce that Chad Boas's creation  Southern 53' flat car, Mount Vernon builds are available through Mask Island Decals.

You may choose from undecorated or three other build or rebuild eras and choose appropriate decals to fit same.

Thank you.

Hubert Mask

Visit maskislanddecals.com


Re: Mt. Vernon 1920s orders

earlyrail
 

Southern 165693 ACF photo Westerfield ACF disk

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com


Re: LV 1937 AAR 61300-61499

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 27, 2013, at 2:17 PM, Brian Carlson <prrk41361@...> wrote:

These 40 ft boxcars, LV 1937 AAR 61300-61499, were built in 4/1941. I looking for information on what trucks they had in 1957, (probably the same as when built.) I have a photo around here someplace but can’t find it now.

AAR cast steel with spring planks, Brian.  A perfect match in HO scale is Tangent’s ASF cast steel spring plank truck.


Richard Hendrickson



LV 1937 AAR 61300-61499

Brian Carlson
 

These 40 ft boxcars, LV 1937 AAR 61300-61499, were built in 4/1941. I looking for information on what trucks they had in 1957, (probably the same as when built.) I have a photo around here someplace but can’t find it now.

 

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga, NY

 


Re: CV Round Freight Car Roof

Guy Wilber
 

Richard wrote:

"It was a uniquely NP design and though I can’t say with assurance that it was never applied to other than NP cars, I’ve never seen any evidence of its use by other car owners."


I am on the road and can't give the car series, but SOO used the identical roof on a series of box cars which is the only other owner I have heard of using the NP roof.

Dennis Storzek or Richard Wilkens may give details. I believe the patent had been sold to Hutchins by the time of the application.

Regards,

Guy Wilber
Iron Point, Nevada


Re: CV Round Freight Car Roof

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 27, 2013, at 11:48 AM, Steel77086@... wrote:

I've just purchased a Central Valley Round Freight Car Roof. I know it was originally made for the Northern Pacific stock car kit, but I'd like to know if this is a more or less standard round roof that would be usable for other roads' box cars that had round roofs.

Or is this roof's design good only for the NP???

Vince, the roof you describe was designed by the Northern Pacific mechanical department in the teens and applied to all NP box, stock, and refrigerator cars until the mid-1930s.  The NP called it a “circular” roof.  It was a uniquely NP design and though I can’t say with assurance that it was never applied to other than NP cars, I’ve never seen any evidence of its use by other car owners.  It was certainly quite different in design and construction from the curved all-steel roofs that were offered by Chicago-Cleveland (“Climax”), Hutchins (“Camber”), and Standard Railway Equipment Co. (Murphy Radial) in the 1920s and early ‘30s.  Note that the common generic term for the latter roofs is “radial” and that “round roof” has generally been used to describe the roofs used by the Pennsylvania railroad, DT&I, N&W, SAL, B&O etc. which had flat sections on top but rounded eaves in order to fit within the clearance limits that were then in effect.

Richard Hendrickson



Re: historical maps

Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 


If you look further, you'll find aerial views are often available as well. It is not necessary to register either.
 
Eric

If you are looking for free, historical USGS maps, go to:

http://store.usgs.gov/b2c_usgs/usgs/maplocator/%28xcm=r3standardpitrex_prd&layout=6_1_61_50_2&uiarea=2&ctype=areaDetails&carea=0000000009%29/.do

If you type "Vernon, California" in the search box, you'll get the general area. Then left click on the red highlighter. You'll get a list of available maps with the date of the map. If you sign up with the site (do that first), you can download any of the maps for free.

Jack Burgess


CV Round Freight Car Roof

steel77086@...
 

To the group:


I've just purchased a Central Valley Round Freight Car Roof. I know it was originally made for the Northern Pacific stock car kit, but I'd like to know if this is a more or less

standard round roof that would be usable for other roads' box cars that had round roofs.

Or is this roof's design good only for the NP???


Vince Altiere


Re: IM ACF Sherwin Williams Covered Hoppers

 

The January 1972 Los Angeles Junction Ry. Industry List says SW got "Pigment-Chemical)". List doesn't ID car types but on Charlie Slater's LAJ Switching Maps only says "Sherwin Williams Paint - always had 3 or 4 50' boxcars on spot  all types of painting supplies."

 


Re: historical maps

Jack Burgess
 

If you are looking for free, historical USGS maps, go to:

 

http://store.usgs.gov/b2c_usgs/usgs/maplocator/%28xcm=r3standardpitrex_prd&layout=6_1_61_50_2&uiarea=2&ctype=areaDetails&carea=0000000009%29/.do

 

If you type "Vernon, California" in the search box, you'll get the general area. Then left click on the red highlighter. You'll get a list of available maps with the date of the map. If you sign up with the site (do that first), you can download any of the maps for free.

 

Jack Burgess

 

Tim

Thanks for that link. Too bad the RR maps don't cover post 1930. Looking for1930-1980 around Vernon Ca. Or is my lack of computer skills not letting me find them. LOL
 
Andy Jackson
Bellflower CA


Re: historical maps

 

Tim
Thanks for that link. Too bad the RR maps don't cover post 1930. Looking for1930-1980 around Vernon Ca. Or is my lack of computer skills not letting me find them. LOL
 
Andy Jackson
Bellflower CA


Re: UP Kitbash 40' Double Door SERVICE Help

Richard Townsend
 

The Athearn model, while having perhaps an accurate paint job (I haven't checked) is incorrect for the express boxes.  Among other things, it is too tall.  I am not at home so I don't have my references in front of me, but the cars were covered in one or two issues of the RPCyc (vols 6 and maybe 8).  There was an article on kitbashing the car from an Intermountain PFE R-40-25 reefer in an issue of the UPHS's Streamliner (vol 15, #3, with an update in vol 16, #1).  I did a kitbash years ago using a C&BT boxcar and a Front Range boxcar, and while I think I might have been able to come up with a more difficult approach I can't imagine how at this point.  At the time I thought my approach made sense.  I used Champ decals but Microscale makes a better set (87-683) for this car.  For trucks I used a set of Cape Line trucks; I think they were Symington-Gould High Speed (now available from Bethlehem Car Works as their #1219).

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


-----Original Message-----
From: geridee1
To: STMFC
Sent: Thu, Dec 26, 2013 3:01 pm
Subject: [STMFC] UP Kitbash 40&#39; Double Door SERVICE Help

 
UP Challenger Merchandise Service
UP Two-tone Grey Express Service
UP Armour Yellow Express Service
On the Athearn site all these boxcars were offered in 2005-8 and are here: Athearn page covering the UP express boxcars released between 2005 and 2008and here: http://www.athearn.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=40%27+Box+RTR+Double&CatID=THRF&RN=UP. All shown are double door 40' boxcars
I also read that the 40' double door boxcars Athearn used were a hold over from their purchase of Model Die Casting and it looks as if similar boxcars, under numerous Flags were produced by Roundhouse and may be during the same time period and from the same production mold as well.
Although the paint schemes may (or may not?) be correct for all the boxcars Athearn used to create double door sales, I need some direction to clarify how the UP Service boxcars were specifically painted and how the exterior structure should be created in an accurate model.
I would appreciate all input and direction, especially from individuals who have modeled these particular boxcars, or modeled the 40s-50s double door boxcar on which it looks to be based.
I hope you can help,
Joeldee/Berlin


Re: historical maps

Douglas Harding
 

Dan, the atlas works fine with Firefox. The maps do have some animation, so you may need an addon or plugin to get them to function.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: Fw: (erielack) Steamtown Images--December 27, 2013 (C3771 thru C3775)

Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 

Cool! for those that don't recognize the design, this is the PSC side sill less version of their more familiar design. Both designs are very similar except for the side sill. Since there is little difference in light weight between the two, it is likely the plate is thicker of the sill less version. So, no side sill, no side plate. The side panels are simply bent to add a flange at the top and at the bottom.
 
Eric

The link below will take you to a complete set of photos of a DLW steel coal car built in 1902 taken by the railroad company photographer in 1916. Excellent photos for modeling purposes. 
Bob Stafford

On Friday, December 27, 2013 3:46 AM, "McKnight, Richard" <pat_mcknight@...> wrote:

NOTE: This message had contained at least one image attachment.
To view or download the image(s), click on or cut and paste the
following URL into your web browser:


http://lists.railfan.net/listthumb.cgi?erielack-12-27-13

C3771.jpg (image/jpeg, 2944x2298 792039 bytes, BF: 8.54 ppb)
C3772.jpg (image/jpeg, 2944x2298 1329546 bytes, BF: 5.09 ppb)
C3773.jpg (image/jpeg, 2944x2298 799255 bytes, BF: 8.46 ppb)
C3774.jpg (image/jpeg, 2916x2298 808962 bytes, BF: 8.28 ppb)
C3775.jpg (image/jpeg, 2998x2298 864303 bytes, BF: 7.97 ppb)

Please find attached the following negatives:

C3771--DL&W Coal Hopper no. 72253--side--[1916.11.18]
C3772--DL&W Coal Hopper no. 72253--top--[1916.11.18]
C3773--DL&W Coal Hopper no. 72907--side--[1916.11.18]
C3774--DL&W Coal Hopper no. 72907--end--[1916.11.18]
C3775--DL&W Coal Hoppers undergoing work--[1916.11.18]

If you have any additional comments on any of these images, let me know and
I will update our database.  Also, if any of you would like to assist with
scanning (and are in the Scranton area) I am always happy to sign up new
volunteers.

--
Patrick McKnight
Historian/Archivist
Steamtown NHS
150 S. Washington Avenue
Scranton, PA

72061 - 72080 of 192836