Date   

New York central boxcars

O Fenton Wells
 

Well thanks to this group I now have information on several 40 ft. double door cars to bash.  For one I need a 3-3-3 dreadnaught end.  I know somebody made them as I have 1 in my parts box.  Any idea who and is there anyone out there that may have an extra one to sell or trade. I guess i could make a mold and have one cast if necessary.

Suggestions and thanks again in advance, I appreciate all the replys I have received on this project.
Fenton Wells


Toronto Railway Prototype Modellers Meet

Richard MCQUADE
 

Mark your calendar now for the annual Toronto Railway Prototype Modellers Meet to be held on Saturday, March 15th, 2014 from 9:00am to 2:30pm. The day consists of clinics by prototype modellers. There will also be the very popular "bring and brag" component, where modellers display models and answer questions about their techniques. Each attendee is encouraged to contribute to this unique learning experience by bringing a model, whether completed or not. The Meet's location is the same as last year: Humber College, North Campus, Building B, rooms B201& B202. The admission is $10 and parking is free. For further information contact Brian Gauer at: bdgauer@... or check our website at: http://torontoprototypemodellers.wordpress.com/


NYCentral Modeler 1st Qtr. 2014 Link

Noel Widdifield
 

I failed to remember that the Yahoo Groups don’t allow url links.  The NYCentral Modeler can be found at http://nycshs.org/for-the-modeler/

Scroll down and follow the directions.

Thanks, Noel


NYCentral Modeler 1st Qtr. 2014 Is Here

Noel Widdifield
 

This first issue for 2014 brings you the models of Don Wetzel who piloted the NYC RDC-3 M-497 to a world speed record of 183.85 m.p.h. on July 23, 1966. We thought you might enjoy seeing how this well-known NYCSHS member enjoys our wonderful hobby of model railroading.

 

We also tell you about the “NYC Piney Fork Branch Railroad” by Seth Gartner, and feature detailed drawings on the NYC Battery Houses from the “Engineering Department” by Manuel Duran-Duran with Larry Faulkner building them for us in the “Harmon Files.”

 

We provide you with a fine article on what is available in a scale we haven’t had any pieces written on in “NYC Modeling in S-scale” by Dick Karnes.  And we let you read about “The Paint Code Triangle” in a well-researched article by Peter Weiglin. 

 

Next we ask you to spend some time in Pete LaGuarda’s basement as he tells us about “Preparing the Basement” for his layout.  

 

We treat you to another in the series of articles from Ron Parisi on “NYCRR’s West Side Freight Lines – Part 3”.  You will be informed with Ron’ tales and many of the photographs from his collection on that part of the NYCS.

To enjoy this edition and all of the other previous nine editions, simply follow the instructions below and let us know what you think.

Go to "Modeling Resources" button on the dropdown menu at the top of this page. When you get to the "For The Modeler" page follow the instructions to view or down load the magazine.

Noel Widdifield

Editor, NYCentral Modeler

NYCBigFour@...


Canadian Box Cars in the U.S.

Charles Hostetler
 

Good afternoon all,

Andy Laurent and I just published a blog post with an Ontario Northland box car delivering newsprint to a local Wisconsin newspaper publisher. Those interested can find the post at:

http://cnwmodeling.blogspot.com/2013/12/a-prototype-waybill-37.html

The 1% carload sample shows that this is the one commodity for which shipments originating in Canada outnumbered shipments originating in the U.S. during the 1950s. The destinations were national in scope, providing a good opportunity to feature Canadian box cars in almost any U.S. geographic setting on a fairly regular basis.

Regards,

Charles Hostetler


CV Round Freight Car Roof

steel77086@...
 

To Richard,Dennis,Guy,et al.:
 
Thanks for your assistance,and information on my question re. the CV RADIAL roof kit.
And a  Happy Holidays wish for all of you !!
 
Thanks again.
Vince Altiere


Re: Sanborn maps [Was historical maps}...

James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
 

If you find yourself in the Washington, DC area, be sure to stop in the Library of Congress.  You will have to obtain a LOC ID card (free) which is good for at least a year.  You can then go down to the Map Room where a staff librarian will be very happy to assist you in viewing the Sanborn maps.  If you are content viewing them on the computer screen, you can print out your heart's content at no cost.  The librarian will be happy to show you how to isolate a section of a map, enlarge it, print it, etc.
A few years ago I went to LOC to gather Sanborn maps for Waynesboro, VA which is the last section of my layout to be built. This information has been very valuable and I thoroughly enjoyed the LOC experience.
 
Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD


From: timken2626@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 11:36:22 AM
Subject: [STMFC] RE: Sanborn maps [Was historical maps}...

 

Regarding comments by both Jack and Dennis:


I understand that, by Sanborn convention, they showed railroad tracks, but not trolley tracks.  So Sanborn maps are not much help interpreting street railways.


Jack is correct in his surmise that the people bought the Sanborn maps started charging for them because a large demand arose about 20 years ago for conducting real estate assessments of possible historical environmental hazards on property subject to sale.  Banks will not loan money for commercial real estate anymore unless they have a "Phase 1" assessment that is basically a paper search for evidence of past environmental issues.  If issues appear to be present, a "Phase 2" assessment may also be conducted, which typically includes soil borings and chemical tests.  These provide a significant business segment within the environmental consulting industry.


Chuck Soule



Re: Sanborn maps [Was historical maps}...

Chuck Soule
 

Regarding comments by both Jack and Dennis:


I understand that, by Sanborn convention, they showed railroad tracks, but not trolley tracks.  So Sanborn maps are not much help interpreting street railways.


Jack is correct in his surmise that the people bought the Sanborn maps started charging for them because a large demand arose about 20 years ago for conducting real estate assessments of possible historical environmental hazards on property subject to sale.  Banks will not loan money for commercial real estate anymore unless they have a "Phase 1" assessment that is basically a paper search for evidence of past environmental issues.  If issues appear to be present, a "Phase 2" assessment may also be conducted, which typically includes soil borings and chemical tests.  These provide a significant business segment within the environmental consulting industry.


Chuck Soule


Re: historical maps

SUVCWORR@...
 

For those seeking Pennsylvania Sanborn maps, Penn State is in the process of digitizing maps prior to 1922 these are no longer protected by copyright.  They can be accessed at


Rich Orr


-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Ray
To: STMFC
Sent: Fri, Dec 27, 2013 8:17 pm
Subject: RE: [STMFC] RE: historical maps



Many county libraries and universities have access to the Sanborn fire maps.  I found that there are maps available for 1919 covering the General Petroleum Corporation and 1926 covering the Central Manufacturing district.  Generally you have to have a library card to access the maps.  Prior to the internet age, I went to UC Berkeley and printed out the needed maps. 
 
Proquest will sell individual maps.  Not sure of the price.  In my research of northern California, maps were often updated and info could be gleaned for a later time period.
 
Hope this helps,
Gary Ray
 
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Jack Burgess
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 11:29 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] RE: historical maps
 



If you are looking for free, historical USGS maps, go to:
 
 
If you type "Vernon, California" in the search box, you'll get the general area. Then left click on the red highlighter. You'll get a list of available maps with the date of the map. If you sign up with the site (do that first), you can download any of the maps for free.
 
Jack Burgess
 
Tim
Thanks for that link. Too bad the RR maps don't cover post 1930. Looking for1930-1980 around Vernon Ca. Or is my lack of computer skills not letting me find them. LOL
 
Andy Jackson
Bellflower CA






(No subject)

Steve Bechtold
 

My apologies to all...  I can't seem to respond to Mr. Boas off list!  Yahoo won't let me.

 

Chad can you please contact me at hatcrkrwy@... concerning your MILW kits.  I want to buy some.

 

Thank you,

Steven Bechtold


Re: Accurail "Bettendorf" AAR trucks with spring planks

Chris Sawicki
 

Hi Brian- how much?

Chris Sawicki
Round Rock, TX, 78681


From: Brian Carlson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 11:44 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Accurail "Bettendorf" AAR trucks with spring planks

 
My cup , er truck storage drawer runneth over with the Accurail “Bettendorf” truck with spring planks. Instead of throwing them out I am going to offer them here for the cost of shipping. I have about a dozen pair to part with. First come first served. Contact me OFF LIST. Prrk41361@...
 
Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga, NY
 



[EXTERNAL] Re: Is that an SAL ventilated box (UNCLASSIFIED)

Don <riverman_vt@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:

Elden Gatwood wrote:
"Looking at it, it appears to be a set-out, and I really buy Rich's observation; the car, though is a real rarity on rails around Pgh. I suppose it could have been grabbed after a "fruit run" or something, out of the Pgh Produce Yards, and used locally before being routed back south. It is just yet another really interesting photo that disproves the absolutes of what freight cars did at any given time."
 
One of the selling points of ventilated boxcars for the railroads that acquired them was their versatility for either produce or general service boxcar loads, so a load of ceramics really isn't surpising.
 
 
Ben Hom 

This is especially the case with SAL V-9 and V-10 ventilated box carfs which, according to the instruction CD for the kits of them, comprised a MAJOR portion of the SAL box car fleet for many years after they were constructed in the early 1920's and certainly through WW II. Let us not forget that many such cars had lumber doors built into the style of Wine Ventilators used in the ends of the cars. The SAL cars included these.

Cordially, Don Valentine - catching up after Christmas


Re: Sanborn maps [Was historical maps}...

Tony Thompson
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:

 
The Sanborn maps show railroad tracks, since proximity to the track could affect fire hazards, however, there is no guarantee that the track arrangement is correct. I found this out by accident after I obtained a copy of the sheet that showed the terminal of the Soo Line Eau Claire branch. It showed the main track coming off the Eau Claire River bridge, the turntable, and the turntable lead CROSSING the main track and continuing as a dead end spur, with no other connection. Luckily, at that time I still had an 'old-timer" I could interview, and specifically asked about this track arrangement. Turns out both tracks joined the main with turnouts, the switch points being only a couple feet apart. The cartographer obviously had trouble interpreting the field notes, and just drew it as an acute angle crossing, since it was the location of the track that was important, not the actual arrangement. So, beware.

     Well said. And anytime there is a yard or any reason for very many tracks, a Sanborn will often just label the area "full of tracks," which from a fire insurance perspective is all you would need to know. Not a lot of help to a modeler though.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Accurail "Bettendorf" AAR trucks with spring planks

Brian Carlson
 

My cup , er truck storage drawer runneth over with the Accurail “Bettendorf” truck with spring planks. Instead of throwing them out I am going to offer them here for the cost of shipping. I have about a dozen pair to part with. First come first served. Contact me OFF LIST. Prrk41361@...

 

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga, NY

 


Re: CV Round Freight Car Roof

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 27, 2013, at 7:55 PM, destorzek@... wrote:

---In STMFC@{{emailDomain}}, wrote:

Richard wrote:

"It was a uniquely NP design and though I can’t say with assurance that it was never applied to other than NP cars, I’ve never seen any evidence of its use by other car owners."


"I am on the road and can't give the car series, but SOO used the identical roof on a series of box cars which is the only other owner I have heard of using the NP roof."


Jim Dick of the NP Historical Society is the guy with the documentation, but I'll give it a try from memory.

The NP's "circular roof" was patented by a gentleman named Robertson, who was an official in the NP's car department. Robertson's intention was to sell the roof industry-wide, and various correspondence from the NP files state at different times that the patented roof would be available from either Chicago-Cleveland or Hutchins, but there is no evidence that Hutchins company ever represented it.

The only road to use this roof other than the NP was the Soo Line, which specified it on all the boxcars they bought between 1926 and 1930, cars well represented by Sunshine kits. The Soo also used this roof on ten milk cars they constructed in their own shops in 1925.

Looking at the Robertson patent, the sheet metal is almost incidental, and the patent makes no claims on the design of the sheet metal covering. The crux of the patent is a system to key the wood roof sheathing so that it acted as one large shear panel, to counteract "weaving", the twisting of the carbody that caused the roof to rack out of square first one way, then the other. This racking was found to quickly wear the sheet steel panels that were just becoming popular as the weather covering of car roofs, and Mr. Robertson's design may be the first to address it.

Unfortunately, the other roof manufacturers took a different tack, designing flexible joints into their second generation of outside metal roofs, and Robertson's invention never really went anywhere. It did, however, appear to work, and most cars roofed with the Robertson design roofs kept them their entire lives.

Thanks, Dennis.  That’s an admirably detailed and succinct summary of the essential information about the NP’s “circular” roof.  Now that you have jogged my memory, I think I knew, but had forgotten, that the Soo was the other RR that used Robertson’s circular roof.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Rutland RR Box Car red

Don <riverman_vt@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Rich C <rhcdmc@...> wrote:

According to Funaro & Camerlengo, The Rutland's Freight Car color was called Cherry. They call for a 50/50 mix of Floquil Box Car Red and Caboose Red (The bright version).

Rich Christie

Steve Funaro is definitely out to lunch on this one. While some,
and ceertainly not all, of the Rutland cabeese were repainted in a
much brighter red in the late 1940's and early 1950's until the
cabeese began to be painted in the green and yellow of the diesels
and new Pullman-Standard PS-1 boxcars calling it "cherry" red might
be a bit of a stretch from the color photos I've seen over the years.
Additionally, in the 1960's and 1970's there were a lot of double sheathed Rutland 36 ft. and 40 ft. box cars around in various places around the system. I do not recall ever seeing one in the brighter red used on some of the cabeese, though I woould not conclude that it never happened. I would, however, conclude that it is highly unlikely. I'll try to find and post a photo of the Rutland 40 ft.
boxcar retored by the Strasburg R.R. which is probably as close a match as I have seen to what the survivors of the early 1970's looked like. This may be closer to an oxide red than anything else.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: CV Round Freight Car Roof

destorzek@...
 




---In STMFC@{{emailDomain}}, <guycwilber@...> wrote:

Richard wrote:

"It was a uniquely NP design and though I can’t say with assurance that it was never applied to other than NP cars, I’ve never seen any evidence of its use by other car owners."


"I am on the road and can't give the car series, but SOO used the identical roof on a series of box cars which is the only other owner I have heard of using the NP roof."


Jim Dick of the NP Historical Society is the guy with the documentation, but I'll give it a try from memory.

The NP's "circular roof" was patented by a gentleman named Robertson, who was an official in the NP's car department. Robertson's intention was to sell the roof industry-wide, and various correspondence from the NP files state at different times that the patented roof would be available from either Chicago-Cleveland or Hutchins, but there is no evidence that Hutchins company ever represented it.

The only road to use this roof other than the NP was the Soo Line, which specified it on all the boxcars they bought between 1926 and 1930, cars well represented by Sunshine kits. The Soo also used this roof on ten milk cars they constructed in their own shops in 1925.

Looking at the Robertson patent, the sheet metal is almost incidental, and the patent makes no claims on the design of the sheet metal covering. The crux of the patent is a system to key the wood roof sheathing so that it acted as one large shear panel, to counteract "weaving", the twisting of the carbody that caused the roof to rack out of square first one way, then the other. This racking was found to quickly wear the sheet steel panels that were just becoming popular as the weather covering of car roofs, and Mr. Robertson's design may be the first to address it.

Unfortunately, the other roof manufacturers took a different tack, designing flexible joints into their second generation of outside metal roofs, and Robertson's invention never really went anywhere. It did, however, appear to work, and most cars roofed with the Robertson design roofs kept them their entire lives.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Sanborn maps [Was historical maps}...

destorzek@...
 

Interesting comments, Jack, to which I'll add...


The Sanborn maps show railroad tracks, since proximity to the track could affect fire hazards, however, there is no guarantee that the track arrangement is correct. I found this out by accident after I obtained a copy of the sheet that showed the terminal of the Soo Line Eau Claire branch. It showed the main track coming off the Eau Claire River bridge, the turntable, and the turntable lead CROSSING the main track and continuing as a dead end spur, with no other connection. Luckily, at that time I still had an 'old-timer" I could interview, and specifically asked about this track arrangement. Turns out both tracks joined the main with turnouts, the switch points being only a couple feet apart. The cartographer obviously had trouble interpreting the field notes, and just drew it as an acute angle crossing, since it was the location of the track that was important, not the actual arrangement. So, beware.


Dennis Storzek


Sanborn maps [Was historical maps}...

Jack Burgess <jack@...>
 

When Sanborn was still in business, they gave a complete set of state maps to at least one public agency in every state. In California, UC Berkeley has a set and, I think, the Huntington Library in southern California. If you visit the Map Room at UC Berkeley, you can make all of the photocopies you want for the price of the copies. But, for many years, you could also download, for free, copies of the Sanborn maps that you want directly from Sanborn through their website.

 

These maps were prepared so that insurance agents could prepare quotes for fire insurance. As such, they recorded not only the size of the buildings (and were updated as needed to stay current) but things which would influence the cost of fire insurance including building materials, building height, fire hydrants, etc. Some of this information was provided by the color of the buildings and other items by codes.

 

An index to the code is at

 

http://cluster3.lib.berkeley.edu/EART/images/sand2.jpg

 

Unfortunately, the historic Sanborn company was purchased several years ago by a company that now sells the original Sanborn maps. Back when I was working, consultants hired by companies that were looking at vacant properties for potential development would come to our City engineering office asking for historic aerial maps. In addition to getting copies of the Sanborn maps, they were looking for any potential hazardous chemical problems for the property they were investigating due to then-demolished buildings. I suspect that the company that purchased Sanborn figured that they could make money by selling the maps that were once available for free to the same companies that were investigating vacant properties.

 

A couple of interesting sidebar stories. Many years ago, I bought an expensive company store pin issued by the Yosemite Lumber Company on eBay which, I think, was to allow their employees at the lumber mill to get free meals in the company dining room. The seller contacted me and said that, if I'd tell him why I spent so much money on this pin, he'd send me a free additional "prize". Of course, I told him of my interest in both the Yosemite Valley Railroad and the Yosemite Lumber Company. He fulfilled his promise and including with my pin a print of a Sanborn map of the entire Merced Falls company town. This particular Sanborn map was not included in any index of California Sanborn maps that I have seen so my copy might be the only one in existence. Obviously, it was prepared specifically for an agent who needed to quote fire insurance for this company town. (The town never had a fire.) This map allowed me to not only draft plans for the town but also accurately draw plans for many of the structures in town.

 

The other story. Back when you could download maps for free from Sanborn, I downloaded every map that I could find for any town on the railroad. One of these maps, even though it was filed under "Merced", was actually for the Yosemite Portland Cement plant a couple of miles outside Merced. The Yosemite Valley Railroad served this plant, not only switching rock cars of limestone from an online quarry into the plant but also switching loaded box cars with bags of Portland cement out of the plant and shipping them out on the SP.

 

Several years ago, this large plant was in being demolished when I received an e-mail from an environmental engineer working on the project with a question. While doing onsite demolition, crews hit a concrete underground bunker. They pulled back, not knowing what it was (a logical and proper thing to do) and went on to other work. The question of what they hit was assigned to the environmental engineer who was charged with making sure that the demolition didn't expose any unknown hazards. That is when he e-mailed me, providing me with the general area occupied by this bunker and asking if I had any idea what it might be. I quickly consulted my Sanborn map of the site and, given where they found it, told him that I thought that it was an underground oil bunker which, given the dates when the plant was in operation, meant that it was used for Bunker C, now considered a hazardous material. I e-mailed him a copy of my map but I have no question that they uncovered that Bunker C storage tank. That had to cost the property owner a lot.

 

They later found lead (another hazardous material) on the property which I helped another engineer understand why but  that is another story...

 

Jack Burgess

 

Many county libraries and universities have access to the Sanborn fire maps.  I found that there are maps available for 1919 covering the General Petroleum Corporation and 1926 covering the Central Manufacturing district.  Generally you have to have a library card to access the maps.  Prior to the internet age, I went to UC Berkeley and printed out the needed maps. 

 

Proquest will sell individual maps.  Not sure of the price.  In my research of northern California, maps were often updated and info could be gleaned for a later time period.

 

Hope this helps,

Gary Ray


Re: historical maps

Gary Ray
 

Many county libraries and universities have access to the Sanborn fire maps.  I found that there are maps available for 1919 covering the General Petroleum Corporation and 1926 covering the Central Manufacturing district.  Generally you have to have a library card to access the maps.  Prior to the internet age, I went to UC Berkeley and printed out the needed maps. 

 

Proquest will sell individual maps.  Not sure of the price.  In my research of northern California, maps were often updated and info could be gleaned for a later time period.

 

Hope this helps,

Gary Ray

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Jack Burgess
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 11:29 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] RE: historical maps

 




If you are looking for free, historical USGS maps, go to:

 

http://store.usgs.gov/b2c_usgs/usgs/maplocator/%28xcm=r3standardpitrex_prd&layout=6_1_61_50_2&uiarea=2&ctype=areaDetails&carea=0000000009%29/.do

 

If you type "Vernon, California" in the search box, you'll get the general area. Then left click on the red highlighter. You'll get a list of available maps with the date of the map. If you sign up with the site (do that first), you can download any of the maps for free.

 

Jack Burgess

 

Tim

Thanks for that link. Too bad the RR maps don't cover post 1930. Looking for1930-1980 around Vernon Ca. Or is my lack of computer skills not letting me find them. LOL
 
Andy Jackson
Bellflower CA




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