Date   

Re: New York Central USRA 50-ton gondola paint color

Ray Breyer
 

Re: NYC gon and hopper colors  It is best to rely on photographic evidence.
It is also important to understand that it was not mandatory to completely
repaint a car every time it was in the shop.  And the NYC had thousands of
gons and hoppers so it was logistically impossible to repaint all of the cars
within a short period of time.   
Hugh T. Guillaume


Hi Hugh,

The problem here is that Intermountain painted their NYC cars, in their original, 1919 delivery scheme, as brown cars. And while we all "know" that NYC gons were painted black during this time, can anyone PROVE that the USRA composite gons were actually black?

We just went around and around on this very topic in the NKPHTS, trying to figure out if the Wheeling's cars were delivered in black or brown paint. And we came up empty. B&W photos are no help at all, and the Wheeling wasn't what you would call a good bookkeeper. We do have evidence that their STEEL gondolas were always painted black, but we also have artifact evidence (recycled boards) that show that pre-1919 wood-sided gons were brown. What happened during 1919, government control, and changing standards is anyone's guess.

SO.......anyone got anything written from the NYC during WWI stating painting specs? Or USRA car orders and specifications?

Regards,
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL

(PS: based on the photos that I have, I suspect that the NYC cars really WERE black, and that Intermountain just messed up)


Re: New York Central USRA 50-ton gondola paint color

 

Re: NYC gon and hopper colors  It is best to rely on photographic evidence.  It is also important to understand that it was not mandatory to completely repaint a car every time it was in the shop.  And the NYC had thousands of gons and hoppers so it was logistically impossible to repaint all of the cars within a short period of time.  Several years ago the late Charlie Smith authored articles on hoppers for the NYCSHS Central Headlight.  Back issues are available on discs, I believe.  Hugh T. Guillaume


Lost and Found at Prototype Rails

Mikebrock
 

From the Prototype Rails Lost and Found:

1. One visor. It is equipped with a small magnifying lense and what appears to be rectangular glasses. It was left on a table Saturday night near where the door prizes were announced.

2, Two boxes [ an Athearn blue box and an MDC box ] containing 2 CNJ 2 bay hoppers and one Ann Arbor hopper. I believe the cars are Bowser and they are nicely weathered. The owners should be aware that, from time to time, hopper cars of strange, unknown RRs [ like the O&W, wherever that is ] have apparently been borrowed by the UP and have seen service in the Buford ballast mines or in coal service to the Harriman coaling tower.

3. A folder titled "meters" and containing various Florida associated RR documents.

4. Unfortunately, no brass Big Boys were left. I could always use another somewhere.

PLEASE REPLY OFFGROUP. I don't want trouble from the group boss...some say he's a real tyrant.

Mike Brock

brockm@cfl.rr.com


Re: New York Central USRA 50-ton gondola paint color

Jeff Pellas <jppellas@...>
 

I once read an anecdotal account of how hoppers of the NYC first started being painted red. Take this with a grain of salt but what I read was that, when the NYC began rebuilding their vast USRA hopper fleet in the 1930s, the shops at Avis were where the first red ones originated. The reason for the color change was simply due to a surplus of red paint. Corporate  management had to approve the use of red before it was actually applied but once it was, it was then decided to adopt red as the color of all hoppers new or rebuilt going forward. Whether or not this account is factual, what it illustrates is an adaptive or flexible approach to car rebuilding that was probably necessitated by the greatly increased traffic loads as the US began exporting goods to Europe prior to America officially entering the War. I imagine railroads wouldn't hold up a rebuild program because they were out of a particular color of paint. It is also probable that similar cars (like the USRA gons) were being rebuilt at various locations around the vast NYC system resulting in paint variations.     
Jeff
jppellas@...


-----Original Message-----
From: RUTLANDRS
To: STMFC
Sent: Tue, Jan 14, 2014 11:44 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] New York Central USRA 50-ton gondola paint color



Eric,
    When you figure it out let me know. I'm still convinced that in 48 the panel side hoppers were still black, at least mine is.
Chuck Hladik
 
In a message dated 1/14/2014 11:28:51 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, eric@... writes:
 
Thanks Chuck, I have noted that info, which has spurred my question on this model. If black is proper for NYC gondolas before 1941, then why has Intermountain done a few runs of these models with as-built lettering and brown/red paint? Is there something specific to the paint for this car design? Or has Intermountain chosen to paint these in the wrong color (a few times) for the as-built versions? 

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX



Re: My CCB experience

Larry Kline
 

I have been giving talks and organizing meetings, both professional and model railroad, for 40 years. I'm almost always happy to learn about errors and get questions and comments. As a result of my Cocoa Beach talk on P&LE cabooses this year I got a dimensioned photo of an NYC caboose air whistle that I want to build, met an audience member who has a partially built kit that I would like to learn more about, and received several other constructive comments. 

If you feel that your talk is being hijacked you can always politely, or not so politely if necessary, tell the hijacker to wait until after you're finished.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA

Clark Propst wrote:
Learned a new term this trip. "Highjackingˇ Referring to someone in the audience disrupting a clinic by pointing out errors made by the presenter, or offering their opinions/advice on the subject. This happened more than once. Caused the presenter to loose his train of thought and wrecked the flow of the presentation.


January RMC article: Moving Melons by Rail

gary laakso
 

There is a great article on building the Westerfield ACL 0-15 ventilated boxcar and modeling the watermelons that can be seen through the ventilated door.
 
gary laakso
south of Mike Brock



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Re: New York Central USRA 50-ton gondola paint color

Charles Hladik
 

Eric,
    When you figure it out let me know. I'm still convinced that in 48 the panel side hoppers were still black, at least mine is.
Chuck Hladik
 

In a message dated 1/14/2014 11:28:51 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, eric@... writes:
 

Thanks Chuck, I have noted that info, which has spurred my question on this model. If black is proper for NYC gondolas before 1941, then why has Intermountain done a few runs of these models with as-built lettering and brown/red paint? Is there something specific to the paint for this car design? Or has Intermountain chosen to paint these in the wrong color (a few times) for the as-built versions? 


Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX


Re: Cocoa 2014

Tony Thompson
 

Jared Harper wrote:

From all the posts regarding "hijacking" presentations at Cocoa 2014 I get the idea that there must have been a lot of that or a particularly irritating individual.  I wasn't at Cocoa this year, but have been to and have presented at a number of them.  I have never had anyone behave badly in any of my presentations.  I do not mind questions at any point if a member of the audience does not understand some point or if they have something pertinent to say.

       I'm not sure where all the "hijacking" talk comes from. I did not see it in any session I was in, nor did I hear about it while I was there. It's certainly offensive when it happens, but with experience as a speaker, it can be dealt with. BTW, Jared, we missed you this year.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Cocoa 2014

Jared Harper
 

From all the posts regarding "hijacking" presentations at Cocoa 2014 I get the idea that there must have been a lot of that or a particularly irritating individual.  I wasn't at Cocoa this year, but have been to and have presented at a number of them.  I have never had anyone behave badly in any of my presentations.  I do not mind questions at any point if a member of the audience does not understand some point or if they have something pertinent to say.

Hope to be at Cocoa next year.

Jared Harper
Athens, GA


Re: My CCB experience

Jared Harper
 

I'll second that! 8>)

Jared Harper
Athens, GA




---In STMFC@..., <cepropst@...> wrote:

I talk about stuff no one else is interested in...LOL!
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: Cocoa Beach Photos Posted

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

     I have been negligent in thanking Dave for his efforts in the past.
     Even when I do attend the meets I now take less photos as I know
     Dave has me covered.  Thanks Dave.

     Many, many fine models in this meet.  I should nort miss this in the future.

     Bill Pardie

On Jan 14, 2014, at 8:34 AM, O Fenton Wells wrote:

 

Thanks Dave, They are excellent photos.


On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 11:45 AM, <dhussey@...> wrote:
 

I have uploaded my Cocoa Beach 2014 Photos at:

http://www.pbase.com/dh30973/cocoa2014&page=all

Dave Hussey





--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...



Re: Cocoa Beach Photos Posted

O Fenton Wells
 

Thanks Dave, They are excellent photos.


On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 11:45 AM, <dhussey@...> wrote:
 

I have uploaded my Cocoa Beach 2014 Photos at:

http://www.pbase.com/dh30973/cocoa2014&page=all

Dave Hussey




--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...


Re: My CCB experience

gary laakso
 

I really enjoyed Andy’s clinic and one of the highlights was his having a sample of his whole body splicing so that we could compare it to his current window area splicing.  The in-progress work photos made the description of the work done very easy to visualize.   We also could enjoy the detailed plans that the good folks at the Coach Yard had provided.
 
gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
 

Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2014 12:57 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] My CCB experience
 
 

I don't attend a lot of clinics, an in fact at any given RPM meet the
number of clinics I will attend besides my own (if I'm giving one) is
between zero and one. I prefer to just hang out in the model room, unless
a particular clinic is something I'm really interested in. This year at
CCB I went to Tom Madden's 3D printing clinic, a subject I am very much
interested in and Tom is an excellent presenter, and in fact I even
requested my own clinic be moved so I could attend Tom's.

I generally don't mind questions in the middle of the clinic, as long as it
is something relevant to that point in the clinic. In other words, if I'm
talking about trucks, that's a good time to ask about trucks, not about
decals. I've had the occasional correction issued from the gallery, which
I really don't mind because - as I always explain in my clinics - I do the
clinics to increase my OWN knowledge of the subject. If anybody else
benefits, great.

Doing a clinic causes me to focus on one particular subject, gather my
source materials together, put down concrete answers to questions I may
have been only guessing at or going by consensus, as well as document my
process if it's a model build. By simply explaining the process and
photographing it, I become aware of what I'm doing and can discover better
ways or short cuts.

I've occasionally had a method challenged - and based on the topic of my
most recent clinic you can probably guess what parts of it were challenged,
but they're off topic for this list. A factual correction is always
welcome. In terms of modeling methods and techniques, if I'm advocating a
particular technique it's because I've either been doing it for 40 years,
or else I've tried everything else and settled on this one. I have my
preferences when it comes to materials and chemicals... I prefer to work
with styrene, resin, metal, or wood in that order.

I'd consider it rude if I'm doing a clinic on kitbashing or scratch
building a particular model if somebody pops up and says "Why didn't you
just buy the brass one?" or "such-and-such is close enough for me". In
that case, the person has no business in my clinic anyway. This is all
pretty rare. I'm not a regular public speaker by any means, but I've never
been shy about it. I don't care about my images as "the expert" and in
fact almost every clinic I've given, I can spot one or more people in the
room who know more about the subject than I do. Or at least some aspect of
it.

The very first clinic I ever attempted to give, I started with an audience
of four. The minute I opened my mouth, three of them walked away. After
talking for about 90 seconds, the remaining guy said "I just wanna know how
to put Kadee couplers on 'em". Which is why I never did another clinic
until I was invited to do one at a real RPM meet. A very different experience.

To sum it up, the whole clinic experience for me, as a presenter, is to
expand and solidify my knowledge, hone my skills at model building, try new
techniques - and share both the failures and the successes, and walk away
with renewed motivation. It has always worked for me.

Andy




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Re: AC&F Type 27

Tony Thompson
 

For you tank car experts, does "Type 27" refer to the design of the car, or just the underframe?

    Underframe only. The buyer had many options in specifying the tank.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: My CCB experience

Andy Harman
 

I don't attend a lot of clinics, an in fact at any given RPM meet the number of clinics I will attend besides my own (if I'm giving one) is between zero and one. I prefer to just hang out in the model room, unless a particular clinic is something I'm really interested in. This year at CCB I went to Tom Madden's 3D printing clinic, a subject I am very much interested in and Tom is an excellent presenter, and in fact I even requested my own clinic be moved so I could attend Tom's.

I generally don't mind questions in the middle of the clinic, as long as it is something relevant to that point in the clinic. In other words, if I'm talking about trucks, that's a good time to ask about trucks, not about decals. I've had the occasional correction issued from the gallery, which I really don't mind because - as I always explain in my clinics - I do the clinics to increase my OWN knowledge of the subject. If anybody else benefits, great.

Doing a clinic causes me to focus on one particular subject, gather my source materials together, put down concrete answers to questions I may have been only guessing at or going by consensus, as well as document my process if it's a model build. By simply explaining the process and photographing it, I become aware of what I'm doing and can discover better ways or short cuts.

I've occasionally had a method challenged - and based on the topic of my most recent clinic you can probably guess what parts of it were challenged, but they're off topic for this list. A factual correction is always welcome. In terms of modeling methods and techniques, if I'm advocating a particular technique it's because I've either been doing it for 40 years, or else I've tried everything else and settled on this one. I have my preferences when it comes to materials and chemicals... I prefer to work with styrene, resin, metal, or wood in that order.

I'd consider it rude if I'm doing a clinic on kitbashing or scratch building a particular model if somebody pops up and says "Why didn't you just buy the brass one?" or "such-and-such is close enough for me". In that case, the person has no business in my clinic anyway. This is all pretty rare. I'm not a regular public speaker by any means, but I've never been shy about it. I don't care about my images as "the expert" and in fact almost every clinic I've given, I can spot one or more people in the room who know more about the subject than I do. Or at least some aspect of it.

The very first clinic I ever attempted to give, I started with an audience of four. The minute I opened my mouth, three of them walked away. After talking for about 90 seconds, the remaining guy said "I just wanna know how to put Kadee couplers on 'em". Which is why I never did another clinic until I was invited to do one at a real RPM meet. A very different experience.

To sum it up, the whole clinic experience for me, as a presenter, is to expand and solidify my knowledge, hone my skills at model building, try new techniques - and share both the failures and the successes, and walk away with renewed motivation. It has always worked for me.

Andy


AC&F Type 27

ottokroutil
 

For you tank car experts, does "Type 27" refer to the design of the car, or just the underframe?

Thanks, Otto K.


Cocoa Beach Photos Posted

dh30973
 

I have uploaded my Cocoa Beach 2014 Photos at:

http://www.pbase.com/dh30973/cocoa2014&page=all

Dave Hussey


Re: New York Central USRA 50-ton gondola paint color

Eric Hansmann
 

Thanks Chuck, I have noted that info, which has spurred my question on this model. If black is proper for NYC gondolas before 1941, then why has Intermountain done a few runs of these models with as-built lettering and brown/red paint? Is there something specific to the paint for this car design? Or has Intermountain chosen to paint these in the wrong color (a few times) for the as-built versions? 


Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX


My recent RPM experiences

Clark Propst
 

I thought I’d throw out my opinions of the last three RPMs I was privileged enough to attend. I was a mouse in the corner for the planning of the StL meet, so I will never complain but any of them.
 
Last summer was the Collinsville Il (St Louis) meet. This one is in a convention center rimmed by hotels and restaurants, with more very nearby. The focus is on tables. Lots of models on display, hands on clinics going all day, HS societies, manufacturers and vendors. Only one clinic room. Clinics are only shown once. A great place to grab some chairs and hold a good BS session.
 
This past fall was Naperville. This show seems to be on wobbly legs with the lost of Martin Lofton, trying to find a new direction. Using three different venues over the last three years hasn’t helped. You lose that ‘comfort’ feeling. Focus on clinics. Not near as many tables as St Louis, but many clinics going at once. The reason I go, a great show.  
 
Winter time means Cocoa Beach. A chance to thaw out a bit. Venue is therefore second to none. Again the focus is on clinics, not as many tables as Naperville, but with the ocean outside the door and good clinics who cares ;  )
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


NYC 40 ft. double door boxcars

O Fenton Wells
 

I am kitbashing the 40 foot, 10'-0" IH double door boxcars with the 12 ft door openings.  I have the ends and roof to do both the end door and straight end versions.  Looking at the photos in volume 21 of RPC I can see an interesting rivet panel arrangement with the sides.  
Does anyone have any info on the panel widths and the rivet patterns?
 I will probably do an 88xxx series car and a 203xxx series as I model 1952 and the 211xxx series didn't take place until then.  I want one with the black background in the oval and one without but I may need to go with an earlier number to have the black. say the 91xxx series.
Thanks in advance
Fenton Wells

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