Date   

Re: P&P Car Line

Earl Tuson
 

If you can do some local research, it would be interesting to know who owned P&P and what their cars were used
for.��In 1953 they had about 100 RBs, so it was a substantial operation.��

Park and Pollard shipped feed in these former reefers. Their cars showed up in Northern New England for certain, but I
do not know the full extent of their distribution network.

Earl Tuson


Re: Army troop cars in transit

npin53
 

They were used in Korean War troop trains.  The car had a different scheme by then, with "UNITED STATES ARMY" over the door.

http://www.johnsonsdepot.com/crumley/images/tour10/natlguard3.jpg


Aaron


Re: Impression from the Albrecht photos

Ray Breyer
 

There's information on spray painting, sandblasting, and heat baking paint on freight and passenger cars in the 1919 MCBA annual report. Spray painting freight equipment is definitely nothing new.
 
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL



From: cj riley
To: "STMFC@..."
Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Impression from the Albrecht photos



While not directly related to freight cars, I have a cautionary tale. In 1962 I spent a summer at Levinson Steel (working in the old Pressed Steel Car plant in McKee's Rocks PA) painting the plate girders and a few trusses for bridges on the new I-70 through Ohio. A more highly paid man sprayed the steel components, but to comply with the specs, we lowly painters brushed out the sprayed paint. Evidently, the state was concerned about the spray reaching into the nooks and crannies for a proper finish.
The Levinson method allowed for the economy of paint while leaving brush marks to satisfy state inspectors.

 
CJ Riley
Bainbridge Island WA


From: Richard Hendrickson
To: "STMFC@..."
Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2014 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Impression from the Albrecht photos

 
On Jan 18, 2014, at 5:30 PM, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:

          Spraying was not common before World War II, as I understand it, but became commonplace after the war. I have that impression from, again, Railway Age, but if anyone can put more specific dates to this, I would be interested to see them.

The Santa Fe adopted spray painting for its freight cars at least as early as the early ‘30s, and this made possible the application of the bold slogan-and-map lettering schemes starting in 1940.  Railway Age (and the Car Builders’ Cyclopedia) had a feature article showing spray painting equipment in use in the Topeka car shops.  The Santa Fe was evidently slightly ahead of the curve in adopting spray painting, but other railroads must have quickly followed suit, as the slogan lettering schemes adopted by Union Pacific. Burlington, Chicago & Northwestern, etc. obviously required spray painting; applying stencil paste to those very large stencils by hand would have been much too time and labor intensive.

Richard Hendrickson








Re: An in service pix of the C&O waffle iron end boxcar!

Dan Sweeney Jr
 

C'mon, Fenton, 'fess up.  You and Jim King co-authored an excellent article in SRHA's "Green Light" about a million years ago on doing this same kitbash.  It produced a very nice model, which you noted was about a scale foot too short (in length).  Good eye by the Hawkeye Clark to notice the similarity.  BTW, are we still waiting for accurate decals for this car?  I fudged mine with some prehistoric generic set from Walthers or Champ.


Dan Sweeney, Jr.

Alexandria, VA


Re: More Albrecht photos

Bill Welch
 

As someone requested earlier this week, it would be helpful and I would add perhaps even good manners to change the subject heading when the original subject is abandoned and a new topic is clearly being discussed.


Bill Welch


Re: Impression from the Albrecht photos

CJ Riley
 

While not directly related to freight cars, I have a cautionary tale. In 1962 I spent a summer at Levinson Steel (working in the old Pressed Steel Car plant in McKee's Rocks PA) painting the plate girders and a few trusses for bridges on the new I-70 through Ohio. A more highly paid man sprayed the steel components, but to comply with the specs, we lowly painters brushed out the sprayed paint. Evidently, the state was concerned about the spray reaching into the nooks and crannies for a proper finish.
The Levinson method allowed for the economy of paint while leaving brush marks to satisfy state inspectors.

 
CJ Riley
Bainbridge Island WA


From: Richard Hendrickson
To: "STMFC@..." <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2014 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Impression from the Albrecht photos

 
On Jan 18, 2014, at 5:30 PM, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:

          Spraying was not common before World War II, as I understand it, but became commonplace after the war. I have that impression from, again, Railway Age, but if anyone can put more specific dates to this, I would be interested to see them.

The Santa Fe adopted spray painting for its freight cars at least as early as the early ‘30s, and this made possible the application of the bold slogan-and-map lettering schemes starting in 1940.  Railway Age (and the Car Builders’ Cyclopedia) had a feature article showing spray painting equipment in use in the Topeka car shops.  The Santa Fe was evidently slightly ahead of the curve in adopting spray painting, but other railroads must have quickly followed suit, as the slogan lettering schemes adopted by Union Pacific. Burlington, Chicago & Northwestern, etc. obviously required spray painting; applying stencil paste to those very large stencils by hand would have been much too time and labor intensive.

Richard Hendrickson




Re: Army troop cars in transit

Alexander Schneider Jr
 

Those are kitchen cars, and in the postwar period a large number of them were sold to various railroads who used them in MofW service.

 

Alex Schneider

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of gary laakso
Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 8:28 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Army troop cars in transit

 




From the Albrecht collection and its 1949 and there are 5 in the consist.  Is that original lettering on them?

 

 

 

gary laakso

south of Mike Brock

 


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Army troop cars in transit

gary laakso
 

From the Albrecht collection and its 1949 and there are 5 in the consist.  Is that original lettering on them?
 
 
 
gary laakso
south of Mike Brock



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Re: More Albrecht photos

rob.mclear3@...
 

Haven't tried that Richard, but I am only over spraying over Floquil and weathering and I haven't had one craze yet, touch wood.   Now with Floquil becoming harder to find I am thinking of switching over to Tru Colour, which I have heard good reports about.


I forget who mentioned it but someone on the list said a while ago that they had trouble getting good coverage with whites and yellows.   I may have a solution which has worked for me, sometime ago we moved into a new house and the walls were painted purple and the ceiling cornice a very dark blue.   I tried with seven coats of paint to cover the blue and had little success, it worked but took forever, and was prohibitive in cost and I still had other rooms to do.   Then a professional painter said, paint it silver first mate.   Well blow me down, one coat of silver and and one coat of white and the blue was gone, it was almost magic.   I don't know how it worked but it did, I now do all of my model painting the same, grey primer, silver over that and then the white or yellow.   Works a charm every time.


Just a tip you might like to try.


Rob McLear.


Re: More Albrecht photos

Richard White
 

On Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:27 pm (PST)  Rob McLeer wrote:
I have had trouble using lacquer thinner because it can attack polystyrene and cause the surface to craze. I now thin 50/50 with white spirit (mineral turpentine) and mix just enough for each session as the mixture won't keep but curdles after an hour or so.
 
Richard White


Re: An in service pix of the C&O waffle iron end boxcar!

O Fenton Wells
 

Clark, The Southern car if you are referring to car No. 163xxx is a wood 40 ft double door boxcar that Sunshine produced a few years ago.  I understand since you can't get the Sunshine kit that some one is going to produce the car in resin in the near future.  Not sure what the near future is.  I'll send a photo off line.
Fenton Wells


On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 11:03 PM, <cepropst@q.com> wrote:
 

Ben, can you be more specific?
I’m thinking that I could cut up the AHM car saving the sides. They could be cut down if too tall. But, I know absolutely nothing about the Southern car. If it’s not possible, it’s not possible.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa




--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...


Re: Oscar Mayer reefer Question

Tim O'Connor
 


Max, is it a steel car? Oscar Mayer had more than one style of rebuilt steel cars and I'd
guess the rebuildings happened postwar. So,1954 sounds reasonable.

Tim O'Connor


In a message dated 1/19/2014 3:27:54 A.M. Central Standard Time, caboose9792@... writes:
Interestingly, at least to me, is atleat one oscar mayer reefer at irm is reverting to a red swift car

Of the UTLX cars at IRM in the UTLX 66xxx series, Interestingly at least to me, is at least one Oscar Mayer reefer at IRM is reverting to a red swift car. Does anyone have the build date for those cars. The chronically erroneous IRM website says 1954. Sample sign can be found at
 
  http://www.irm.org/gallery/URTX66216/aaa
 
Mark Rickert


Re: Oscar Mayer reefer Question

caboose9792@...
 

Well that draft escaped somehow....
 
In a message dated 1/19/2014 3:27:54 A.M. Central Standard Time, caboose9792@... writes:
Interestingly, at least to me, is atleat one oscar mayer reefer at irm is reverting to a red swift car
Of the UTLX cars at IRM in the UTLX 66xxx series, Interestingly at least to me, is at least one Oscar Mayer reefer at IRM is reverting to a red swift car. Does anyone have the build date for those cars. The chronically erroneous IRM website says 1954. Sample sign can be found at
 
 
Mark Rickert


Re: More Albrecht photos

Tim O'Connor
 

Although both cars appear to be filthy, you can tell there has been
little damage to the underlying paint - no corrosion, faded lettering,
patch stencils, etc is apparent. Travelling on the Overland Route in
that era I think they could probably get that dirty in just one or maybe
two trips. So when you're weathering cars only a year or two old, the
old "overspray with a coat of dust" might be realistic for most of the
car, with some extra attention to trucks, roofs, underframe and ends.

On some Facebook weathering interest pages, it seems most modelers think
a car that is totally corroded and filthy is what you want. The techniques
are pretty cool, but I would not call them realistic for most of the chosen
freight cars and paint schemes. They're mostly anachronistic in the extreme,
especially since most are modern prototypes that had longer lasting paint.

Tim O'Connor

My practice as well, Dullcoat thinned 50/50 with lacquer thinner. On another note those two Express Reefers in the silver and green 1947 as delivered scheme are a bit of a shock to me. I have two of those I have just weathered and only did them exceedingly lightly as I figured that they would not have gotten to weathered in a short space of time. I may have to go back and add some more grime and muck to them as mine are way to light in the weathering. Sort of reinforces what Richard mentioned earlier about his cars, that is a lot of stuff on those cars in a little under or over a year.

Rob McLear.


Re: An in service pix of the C&O waffle iron end boxcar!

Scott H. Haycock
 


Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent


 

Here is a link to an online Southern 1962 Equipment Diagram Book That includes that car, on page 7. 

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent



Re: P&P Car Line

Tim O'Connor
 


A quick web search says P&P went out of business Oct 1957 and the
reporting mark was removed from ORER's a year later.

Tim O'Connor


Brian, I have a photo of PRKX 662 which I�ll scan and send to you off-list.
No date on the photo, but the reweigh date on the car is ER 6-40.  P&P�s cars
were all ex-MDT wood cars purchased second hand, and they are listed in the
ORERs as RBs, so the ice bunkers were removed.  The car in the photo has an
outside wood roof with no hatch covers and box car style running boards and
end platforms.  As the ER shop symbol indicates, the conversion of these cars
was apparently carried out at MDT�s East Rochester shops.

If you can do some local research, it would be interesting to know who owned
P&P and what their cars were used for.  In 1953 they had about 100 RBs, so it
was a substantial operation. 

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Oscar Mayer reefer Question

caboose9792@aol.com <caboose9792@...>
 

Intrestingly, atleast to me, is atleat one oscar mayer reefer at irm is reverting to a red swift car

Sent with Verizon Mobile Email

---Original Message---
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 1/18/2014 9:24 pm
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Oscar Mayer reefer Question

On Jan 18, 2014, at 6:32 PM, Brian Carlson <prrk41361@yahoo.com> wrote:> While preparing to get my hands on some Oscar Mayer Rapido reefers, I read a caption in Gene Green’s Reefer color Guide that “In the 1930’s Oscar Mayer’s refrigerator cars came from Standard Refrigerator Ca Company and General American Tank Car Company but eventually switched to MDT. I the book there is MERX 902 in Oscar Mayer. There is also URTX 5366 The URTX series 66050 to 66999 , fitting what Rapido is numbering, only list 25 cars in the July 1957 ORER. Help Please, looking to Verify the Rapido cars for my era, any other photos out there?Brian, I have a photo of a URTX Oscar Meyer reefer dated 1956, so I think you’re okay.Richard Hendrickson


Re: Oscar Mayer reefer Question

Tim O'Connor
 


I have a late 1950's dupe slide of freshly painted, wood sheathed Oscar Mayer URTX 5334.

Tim O'Connor


While preparing to get my hands on some Oscar Mayer Rapido reefers, I read a caption in Gene Green�s Reefer color Guide that �In the 1930�s Oscar Mayer�s refrigerator cars came from Standard Refrigerator Ca Company and General American Tank Car Company but eventually switched to MDT. I the book there is MERX 902 in Oscar Mayer. There is also URTX 5366  The URTX series 66050 to 66999 , fitting what Rapido is numbering, only list 25 cars in the July 1957 ORER. Help Please, looking to Verify the Rapido cars for my era, any other photos out there?
Brian, I have a photo of a URTX Oscar Meyer reefer dated 1956, so I think you�re okay.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: More Albrecht photos

rob.mclear3@...
 

My practice as well, Dullcoat thinned 50/50 with lacquer thinner.   On another note those two Express Reefers in the silver and green 1947 as delivered scheme are a bit of a shock to me.  I have two of those I have just weathered and only did them exceedingly lightly as I figured that they would not have gotten to weathered in a short space of time.   I may have to go back and add some more grime and muck to them as mine are way to light in the weathering.   Sort of reinforces what Richard mentioned earlier about his cars, that is a lot of stuff on those cars in a little under or over a year.


Rob McLear.


Re: More Albrecht photos

devansprr
 

Richard,

I missed that era, but want to model it, and I believe the Jack Delano photos, to include the one at the banner for this group, are some of the best to use as a weathering reference for WWII. They cover a LOT of cars, and some photos are outside the Chicago area - I think all of the cars in the Belan, NM photo would be considered "dead flat", even in bright sun with glare present.

The yard photos in the Chicago area provide a very large sample set of cars that cover most roads - and to me the striking thing in those photos is the 1 out of 50 to 1 out of 100 fresh paint jobs - those cars really pop out, something I think should be modeled, although many might view such cars as "you forgot to weather one..."

The lesson for me is the modest amount of variability for each car - diagonal braces and some vertical steel seams do show some highlighting, but each car has a more uniform look than one of those - bright streak here - big rust spot there weathering jobs. Roofs are a different matter. one challenge is the variation in individual boards on wood sheathing for some box cars - that will be tough to capture.

Beside fresh paint jobs popping out of large collections of cars, I think the biggest variability I have observed is in some of Delano's ore dock pictures - specifically the insides of hoppers. Plus there are hoppers (not the black ones) that have darkened areas on the exterior from attempts to thaw the loads with heat sources - seems to "cook" the pigments of the era.

Bruce S. and I discussed this at CB, and it appears the colors in Delano's photos, in medium to bright natural light on Kodachrome, are probably pretty accurate - there are some cabooses being repainted in a few photos that will convince you there is plenty of red, and messing with the colors on the ore boat photos will make a mess of the life-saver rings and ships running lights. I have tried to find some "reasonable" color adjustments of the Delano photos, and have never been successful. For WWII FC colors, I think the Delano photos may be the "gold standard".

And having the hi-res versions in the LOC is a big bonus.

Your thoughts? I would like to come up with a fleet encompassing weathering plan before actually weathering my freight car fleet. I am concerned that different weathering styles on one WWII layout will look bad.

Dave Evans




---In STMFC@..., <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

On Jan 17, 2014, at 3:25 PM, gary laakso <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:
 
I must say that looking through the pictures, few of the display cars at Cocoa Beach were as dirty as these are. 

A good point, Gary, and one I keep trying to make in my clinics about aging and weathering.  There aren’t many of us left now who were around during the later years of the steam era, and it’s hard to convince those who were not just how dirty freight cars got from locomotive stack exhaust, not to mention the industrial pollution they were exposed to in big city freight yards, especially in the northeast.  When I’ve displayed models at meets (which I don’t do at CB owing to the problems of getting them through airline security), modelers whose memory goes back no further than the early diesel era have told me that the models are “over weathered,” to which I can only say “you had to have been there.”  I model October of 1947, a time when I hung around freight yards and climbed on top of box cars to take photos, and it’s difficult for those who weren’t there to imagine how rapidly rolling stock got dirty, especially roofs and underframes.

Richard Hendrickson


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