Date   

Re: Cudahy Meat Reefer End Color Question

Nelson Moyer <ku0a@...>
 

Tony, et. al.

 

I had already scanned the four color pictures available, so I opened the best one in Photoshop Elements along with all four Tru Color color chip files (they scanned them in four files with one quarter of the chart in each file). It would have been easier to get direct comparisons if the color chart was in one file, but after several sampling attempts, I gave up on a direct comparison and did an eyeball color match to the fascia, recorded the RBG numbers for the eyeball and eyedropper sample, then looked at the likely Tru Color candidates for similar RBG numbers. The eyedropper samples vary within a solid color chip depending upon where on the chip you sample, so I use the averaging method to arrive at the RBG number. That narrowed the field to D&RGW Orange, Guilford Orange, and Milwaukee Road Orange. That was a surprise, because my eye sees more red than orange in the photo. I was able to get a perfect match with the eyedropper sample and the eyeball match with all three colors by moving the cursor around a little in the color gradient, which indicates that any of these colors could be mixed to a perfect photo match by either the sample or eyeball method. Comparing the RBG numbers, Guilford Orange is the best eyedropper sample match, while Milwaukee Orange is the best eyeball match. My inclination is to go with the eyeball match, since it has the most red of the three colors. I’ll order both colors and see which one I like best.

 

I hadn’t done anything like this until now, so thank you Tony for spurring me to try something new.

 

As Tony points out, there are a lot of variables in color matching, and ultimately the appearance of the car under layout lighting will be the final measure of success.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 3:36 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Cudahy Meat Reefer End Color Question

 

 

Nelson Moyer wrote:

 

I also have the Tru Color color swatches in pdf format, but it’s hard to get a match between a color monitor and a book photograph. 

 

   Not true. In Photoshop you can sample the color and get either an RGB or CMYK proportion; you can do the same with a scan from the book. Whether you want to trust the comparison is another matter. The original photo lighting, and the various modifications which may have happened to the file en route from scanner to printed page, are unknowable at this point but can certainly alter the hue and tone of the image.

 

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com

(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...

Publishers of books on railroad history

 


Re: Cudahy Meat Reefer End Color Question

Tim O'Connor
 


Which brings to mind a question --

Do scanners all use the same color (e.g. full frequency spectrum) light?

The color question will never be settled, because of course, color only
exists in our heads. (Our brain assigns "hues" to various electromagnetic
wavelengths based on hard-wired genetic programming, which can vary from
one set of genes to another.) But in that context, RGB readings are more
consistent than eyeballs.

:-)


Nelson Moyer wrote:

I also have the Tru Color color swatches in pdf format, but it�s hard to get a match between a color monitor and a book photograph.

   Not true. In Photoshop you can sample the color and get either an RGB or CMYK proportion; you can do the same with a scan from the book. Whether you want to trust the comparison is another matter. The original photo lighting, and the various modifications which may have happened to the file en route from scanner to printed page, are unknowable at this point but can certainly alter the hue and tone of the image.

Tony Thompson


Re: Cudahy Meat Reefer End Color Question

Tony Thompson
 

Nelson Moyer wrote:

I also have the Tru Color color swatches in pdf format, but it’s hard to get a match between a color monitor and a book photograph. 

   Not true. In Photoshop you can sample the color and get either an RGB or CMYK proportion; you can do the same with a scan from the book. Whether you want to trust the comparison is another matter. The original photo lighting, and the various modifications which may have happened to the file en route from scanner to printed page, are unknowable at this point but can certainly alter the hue and tone of the image.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: HO N&W H2, H3 hoppers

Benjamin Hom
 

Bruce Smith asked:
"Has anyone made an attempt at backdating the Broadway Limited N&W H2A hopper to the earlier H2 and H3 hoppers?"
 
IIRC, Bob Chapman's "Modeling An N&W Coal Train, Part Four - Birth of the Three-Bay Fleet" in the December 2005 issue of Mainline Modeler cover these conversions.
 
Also, his "Modeling An N&W Coal Train - Conclusion - Upgrading A Broadway Limited Hopper" ran in the January 2006 issue of Mainline Modeler.
 
 
Ben Hom


Re: Early, but definitely steam era

Brian Carlson
 

Larry, finish your car, then they are guaranteed to appear :-)
Brian Carlson 

On Jan 22, 2014, at 3:34 PM, "Larry Sexton"


Cudahy Meat Reefer End Color Question

Nelson Moyer <ku0a@...>
 

While we’re talking about meat reefers, that Tru Color paint shade best matches the red ends, fascia, and door kick plates on Cudahy 5701-5850 meat reefers. I have Gene Greens color reefer book, and the red is very red on newly painted cars, and faded red on old paint jobs. I also have the Tru Color color swatches in pdf format, but it’s hard to get a match between a color monitor and a book photograph. There’s no Tru Color dealer near Iowa City that I’m aware of, so I can’t easily try to match from a bottle. Sunshine 24.17 is read to paint. Since I ordered two and got one, we can safely assume that there are no more.

 

Nelson Moyer

 


Re: Early, but definitely steam era

Larry Sexton
 

Don,



Thanks for the input. You say a major manufacturer of HO scale equipment is reviewing these cars now. I’m glad to hear that. However, I’ve got my sides and underframe made and am working on the ends. About all I need after that to complete this freightcar model is a good photo of the roof that clearly shows the roof detail and I can get to work on the roof masters. There has even been some discussion on whether I’d be interested in having the cars cast, but I haven’t decided on that yet. I’ll see how things turn out at the next RPM meet I attend this spring, and whether the people you’re referencing get their models ready to sell any time soon.



Again, thanks for the feedback.



Larry Sexton

Crystal River, FL

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 10:05 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Early, but definitely steam era







--- In STMFC@..., <abrown@...> wrote:

A few published photos of the XMu class, showing end and/or roof::

RDG 101070, 101400: RP CYC 21 pp80-81
RDG 101070 (again): RMC 1/95 p76 and MM 2/87 p41
RDG 101023: Bossler, "RDG Color Guide", p 68
RDG 101199: MM 2/86 p41 and RMJ 8/04 p40
RDG 101517: Kline and Culotta, "PFCF" p41
RDG 101572: Griffin, "SAL" p35 (partial end shot behind tender of 2-8-2)
RDG 102123: Henderson, "Classic Freight Cars vol 1", p 16
RDG 102751: Culotta, "FCRM 1", p 129 (shows roof from shallow angle)

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.




---In STMFC@..., <SSEXTON9@> wrote:

Does anyone have a photo of any Reading boxcar in series 101000-102999 they’d be willing to provide me a scan. I’m trying to create a model of one these cars which, at first look, appear to be similar to a PRR x-29 boxcar. Except for the 6” difference in height. There may be other differences as well that I haven’t spotted yet. I have a side shot but no ¾ or end view. Any help would be appreciated and thanks in advance.

Larry Sexton
Crystal River, FL
These cars are being reviewed by a major manufacturer of HO scale equipment now. I'm not at liberty to state who but it is NOT NERS.

Cordially, Don Valentine





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Swift 40" steel reefer roof color

Pierre Oliver <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Fair enough
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 1/22/2014 1:36 PM, destorzek@... wrote:

 

Not really odd at all. Paint with bright pigments traditionally costs more, no reason to use it on parts of the car the public doesn't see. In reality, that's the rational for only painting the sides of reefers yellow.

Dennis

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Re: Swift 40" steel reefer roof color

destorzek@...
 

Not really odd at all. Paint with bright pigments traditionally costs more, no reason to use it on parts of the car the public doesn't see. In reality, that's the rational for only painting the sides of reefers yellow.

Dennis


Re: Swift 40" steel reefer roof color

Pierre Oliver <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Really!? How odd.
Thanks Richard.
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 22/01/2014 12:26 PM, Richard Hendrickson wrote:

�

On Jan 22, 2014, at 6:34 AM, Pierre Oliver <pierre.oliver@...> wrote:


Can someone tell what color the roof should be on this horizontal seamed�
steel reefer?
Black or red?

Mineral red, Pierre (not the same red as the sides and ends). �I have photo documentation I�ll send you off-list.

Richard Hendrickson


No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3681/7024 - Release Date: 01/22/14



Re: Swift 40" steel reefer roof color

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jan 22, 2014, at 6:34 AM, Pierre Oliver <pierre.oliver@...> wrote:

Can someone tell what color the roof should be on this horizontal seamed 
steel reefer?
Black or red?

Mineral red, Pierre (not the same red as the sides and ends).  I have photo documentation I’ll send you off-list.

Richard Hendrickson



HO N&W H2, H3 hoppers

Bruce Smith
 

Folks,

Has anyone made an attempt at backdating the Broadway Limited N&W H2A hopper to the earlier H2 and H3 hoppers?   

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/


"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



Re: Early, but definitely steam era

Don <riverman_vt@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., <abrown@...> wrote:

A few published photos of the XMu class, showing end and/or roof::

RDG 101070, 101400: RP CYC 21 pp80-81
RDG 101070 (again): RMC 1/95 p76 and MM 2/87 p41
RDG 101023: Bossler, "RDG Color Guide", p 68
RDG 101199: MM 2/86 p41 and RMJ 8/04 p40
RDG 101517: Kline and Culotta, "PFCF" p41
RDG 101572: Griffin, "SAL" p35 (partial end shot behind tender of 2-8-2)
RDG 102123: Henderson, "Classic Freight Cars vol 1", p 16
RDG 102751: Culotta, "FCRM 1", p 129 (shows roof from shallow angle)

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.




---In STMFC@..., <SSEXTON9@> wrote:

Does anyone have a photo of any Reading boxcar in series 101000-102999 they’d be willing to provide me a scan. I’m trying to create a model of one these cars which, at first look, appear to be similar to a PRR x-29 boxcar. Except for the 6� difference in height. There may be other differences as well that I haven’t spotted yet. I have a side shot but no ¾ or end view. Any help would be appreciated and thanks in advance.

Larry Sexton
Crystal River, FL

These cars are being reviewed by a major manufacturer of HO scale equipment now. I'm not at liberty to state who but it is NOT NERS.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Swift 40" steel reefer roof color

Pierre Oliver <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Can someone tell what color the roof should be on this horizontal seamed steel reefer?
Black or red?
Thanks

--
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com


Need pic of PC 768164 (ex PRR class F25) well car

Bryan Busséy
 

Folks,

I know it's a shot in the dark ... but I'm trying to find a picture of the lone ex-Pennsy class F25 well car that was repainted Deepwater Green after the Penn Central merger. The road number was PC 768164. I am going to check with Bob's Photos this weekend in Springfield, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask here. If anyone has a photo of the car or knows of where I can find one, please email me directly. Thanks.

--
bb


FS: Kevin Endriss Estate

Benjamin Hom
 

HO scale models from the collection of the late Kevin Endriss, RPI Class of 1978 and life member of the Rensselaer Model Railroad Society, are being offered by Don Oltmann on behalf of his wife.

Please contact OFF LIST Don Oltmann at donoltmann "at" yahoo "dot" com or myself at b.hom "at" att "dot" net for a copy of the list, which has over 1,400 models across the spectrum from brass to resin to shake the box kits.

Thank you for your consideration.


Ben Hom


Re: Early, but definitely steam era

al_brown03
 

A few published photos of the XMu class, showing end and/or roof::

RDG 101070, 101400: RP CYC 21 pp80-81
RDG 101070 (again): RMC 1/95 p76 and MM 2/87 p41
RDG 101023: Bossler, "RDG Color Guide", p 68
RDG 101199: MM 2/86 p41 and RMJ 8/04 p40
RDG 101517: Kline and Culotta, "PFCF" p41
RDG 101572: Griffin, "SAL" p35 (partial end shot behind tender of 2-8-2)
RDG 102123: Henderson, "Classic Freight Cars vol 1", p 16
RDG 102751: Culotta, "FCRM 1", p 129 (shows roof from shallow angle)

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.



---In STMFC@..., <SSEXTON9@...> wrote:

Does anyone have a photo of any Reading boxcar in series 101000-102999 they’d be willing to provide me a scan. I’m trying to create a model of one these cars which, at first look, appear to be similar to a PRR x-29 boxcar. Except for the 6” difference in height. There may be other differences as well that I haven’t spotted yet. I have a side shot but no ¾ or end view. Any help would be appreciated and thanks in advance.

 

Larry Sexton

Crystal River, FL  

 


Re: Solvaset

 

I once purchased a 1936 Walthers catalog at a swap meet.  In it was a sample decal.  I tested it and it was still good.  Of course the film was about a foot thick........ – Al Westerfield
 

From: John H
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2014 6:36 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Solvaset
 
 

Who printed the decals and on whose paper? Film really as there are thinner films and thicker films. Then the actual printed images may be thick or thin.

For years I've heard that Walther's declas were rpinted on ratehr thick paper and that was likely true as they go way back in time when thin film wasn't. That said Walther's doesn't print decals nowadays but they sell Walther's paper. From what I have seen it appears about the same thickness as Microscale or Bare Metal Foil (my favorite) paper. Tango Papa still has the thinnest film from what I understand albeit I haven't actually used it.

Alps printed decals also get a bad rap for being too thick in the ink department. That may be true depending on how the decal was printed. Properly printed Alps decals using spot colors may be no thinner than screen printed albeit there are variables. Also it is possible to trade off opaqueness for thinness. I have seen many Microscale decal stripes that do a poor job of hiding the color split that is often below the decal and I have printed replacements with my Alps printers that covered well and were no more difficult to apply. So much depends on the what the color is made of. Some are paints and then the are dyes. Alps uses thermo wax ribbons. They all have different characteristics and different degrees of opaqueness. With an Alps one can apply a layer of white undercoat that really increases opaqueness. If the decal will be applied over a solid color background I suggest one layer of white. If it will be covering two or more colors than two white layers will be needed. A nd, if one color is a light shade and the other a dark shade it is possible three layer may be needed to totally hide the color variation. But each layer makes for a stiffer decal. I have seldom used more than two white layers and have had good results.

For riveted surfaces it is generally necessary to "blot" the decals once they have been positioned with soft tissue, either facial tissue or the stuff used for the other end. And don't be shy with the blotting, the idea is to push the decal down around the rivets. DO NOT APPLY ANY SETTING SOLUTION WHEN DOING THIS! After the decal is well blotted, then apply the solution. I do not recommend using the "set the decal in a pool of solution" method of decaling on rivets. In fact I never use that method at all having very poor luck with it. That said a lot of people use it very successfully so play with it.

John Hagen

>


(No subject)

Larry Sexton
 

Can anyone provide me with a dealer’s contact info that is known to be selling the new Rapido reefer car. Looking for the painted  undecorated cars (121098). Please respond off-line. Thanks much.

 

Larry Sexton

 

_,_._,___


Re: Solvaset

John H <sprinthag@...>
 

Who printed the decals and on whose paper? Film really as there are thinner films and thicker films. Then the actual printed images may be thick or thin.

For years I've heard that Walther's declas were rpinted on ratehr thick paper and that was likely true as they go way back in time when thin film wasn't. That said Walther's doesn't print decals nowadays but they sell Walther's paper. From what I have seen it appears about the same thickness as Microscale or Bare Metal Foil (my favorite) paper. Tango Papa still has the thinnest film from what I understand albeit I haven't actually used it.

Alps printed decals also get a bad rap for being too thick in the ink department. That may be true depending on how the decal was printed. Properly printed Alps decals using spot colors may be no thinner than screen printed albeit there are variables. Also it is possible to trade off opaqueness for thinness. I have seen many Microscale decal stripes that do a poor job of hiding the color split that is often below the decal and I have printed replacements with my Alps printers that covered well and were no more difficult to apply. So much depends on the what the color is made of. Some are paints and then the are dyes. Alps uses thermo wax ribbons. They all have different characteristics and different degrees of opaqueness. With an Alps one can apply a layer of white undercoat that really increases opaqueness. If the decal will be applied over a solid color background I suggest one layer of white. If it will be covering two or more colors than two white layers will be needed. And, if one color is a light shade and the other a dark shade it is possible three layer may be needed to totally hide the color variation. But each layer makes for a stiffer decal. I have seldom used more than two white layers and have had good results.

For riveted surfaces it is generally necessary to "blot" the decals once they have been positioned with soft tissue, either facial tissue or the stuff used for the other end. And don't be shy with the blotting, the idea is to push the decal down around the rivets. DO NOT APPLY ANY SETTING SOLUTION WHEN DOING THIS! After the decal is well blotted, then apply the solution. I do not recommend using the "set the decal in a pool of solution" method of decaling on rivets. In fact I never use that method at all having very poor luck with it. That said a lot of people use it very successfully so play with it.

John Hagen

--- In STMFC@..., <destorzek@...> wrote:

IF it's last years shake 'n take car, the grooves are some of the finest in HO scale, .005" wide and .0025" deep... hardly the Grand Canyon. And, unlike dealing with the old Northeastern scribed wood of yesteryear, where the grooves were so deep that the cut decal is lost in the shadow, these grooves are shallow enough that the background carside color will show through the slits.

Sounds like the decals came from the Bulletproof Decal Co.

Dennis Storzek

73201 - 73220 of 194683