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Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: Weathering Hopper Car Interiors (UNCLASSIFIED)
Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
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Caveats: NONE Curt, and all; That really is an astoundingly beautiful (and accurate) color photo of that subject....there was a LOT of discussion on it on one of the other lists a number of months ago, and really a lesson in humility for those of us that think we have a handle on how things should look. This photo clearly demonstrates that a fleet of similar-class PRR hoppers each exhibits a very different weathering patina. The car in front has fairly complete FCC-colored interior, while the one behind it has been reduced to mainly rust. This is in the era when PRR DID paint their hopper interiors, so newer cars should have some version of painted interior. This, of course, feeds into the argument on why PRR freight cars could have features that appeared different from the painting instructions: different shops?, lazy foremen?, different interpretations? Then, in row two, we have an astounding paint and weathering job. VERY weathered FCC-painted exterior (almost brown), but fairly bright lettering, and an almost gunmetal interior, with significant dark rust-colored patches below. Is this the end effect of NOT painting the interior? That is a really interesting shade of blue in there... And every other hopper is also unique...the H21A in back with what looks like burnt-off paint over the truck; I used to see this effect on NYC hoppers used in hot coke service. And look at the color of the Lake ore being placed over one truck in the third row! It is like I remember: almost Redwood colored. Only a 4x5 Kodachrome could catch that kind of nuancing... Thanks again, Curt, for that link! Elden Gatwood
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of curtfortenberry@... Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2014 12:24 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] RE: Weathering Hopper Car Interiors Found this photo while surfing: http://www.shorpy.com/node/2799 Gives a little idea of what some of the interiors look like. Curt Fortenberry Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE
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Re: BS box car... more info please!
Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
I wondered about this too. It seems unlikely. On
the other hand, I've seen the light weight of this BS order given as 41,400.
Even a 3,000 lb. increase seems to much for a door.
Eric N.
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Re: BS box car... more info please!
Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
Maybe I should have said non-corrugated or
non-pressed. :-) The roof on the RDG class XMu USRA derivative and some later
RDG designs were similar. As far as I know, this type originated on the ARA
"X-29" design. Perhaps these were non-proprietary designs intended to
reduce reliance on more costy proprietay types. Typically the rivet lines on the
lap seam roof (and apt name, by the way) come in pairs. The flanges of an
internal pressed steel hat section correspond two the rivet lines. Rivets are
are spaced closer at the roof seams. The construction of the "X-29" flat end is
similar. Some cars have a similar side construction as well. So, twin rivet
lines = invisible hat section.
Eric N.
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Eras, Paint Schemes and Slogans - the problem ...
Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
Considering what happens to one's collection data
after death is important, especially if there are items that don't exist
anywhere else. I've given relatives names of people I respect so they have
help in deciding what to do with it. Those people also know who they are. I'm
reluctant to determine a beneficiary in advance because things change and I'd
hate to see the material to go where it is practically inaccessible.
I'm publishing what I have as quickly as I can organize it, but this is more
time consuming that most people would realize. I'd also rather see the material
in the private hands of a motivated and generous person than any organization
with competing interests.
Eric N.
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Re: Eras, Paint Schemes and Slogans - the problem ...
It certainly isn’t as good as Keanu Reeves.
Thanks! -- Brian Ehni From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...> Date: Thursday, February 27, 2014 at 12:09 PM To: STMFC List <STMFC@...> Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Eras, Paint Schemes and Slogans - the problem ... Chuck If you're referring to the Yahoo archival message search, I think it became broken when Yahoo switched to the "neo" format. If "neo" is a synonym for "almost" "ersatz" "pseudo" or "faux" then I think they chose the name well. Tim O'Connor I just tried to „search‰ at this site and all I got were automobile ads and [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: Eras, Paint Schemes and Slogans - the problem ...
Chuck
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If you're referring to the Yahoo archival message search, I think it became broken when Yahoo switched to the "neo" format. If "neo" is a synonym for "almost" "ersatz" "pseudo" or "faux" then I think they chose the name well. Tim O'Connor
I just tried to �search� at this site and all I got were automobile ads and Enterprise car rental.
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Re: Eras, Paint Schemes and Slogans - the problem ...
Dave
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I plan to donate my brain to a railroad historical society. :-) Or maybe just my hard drive... there are literally gigabytes of emails, spreadsheets, pdfs, jpgs, text files (notes), etc that will be eternally searchable. Tim O'Connor
Mark,
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Re: BS box car... more info please!
Ed Hawkins
On Feb 27, 2014, at 11:25 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
Eric my notes say that it is a "lap seam" roof, but I'm not sureTim, From the Pullman-Standard bill of materials for lot 5541, the following is summary information compiled from the document for this light-weight box car: Pullman Flat Plate Ends; Pullman Riveted Roof; Pullman Welded Doors, Equipco H/B; Wood R/B & B/S; Cor-Ten plates for side, end, and roof sheets, doors. AAR Type Spring Plank Type Trucks (TCI); One Wear Steel Wheels. Brown Paint (no mfg. specified) - Sides, Ends, Roof, R/B, U/F, Trucks. White - Stencils Regards, Ed Hawkins
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Re: BS box car... more info please!
thanks Al! Do you think the replacement doors could add 4,800 lbs??
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Tim O'
BS 300-399 were built in 1937 by Pullman-Standard; they shared some features with the '37 AAR standard box, but also had the old-fashioned flat end, and were built with unusual plate-steel doors with the locking mechanism in a recessed panel. There's a builder's photo in TS CYC 17 ('43 CBC), p 121. The plate doors were apparently very light: the original light weight was only 39,600 lbs, about halfway between the light weights of a "PS-0" and a standard '37 AAR car. The Vancouver photo, taken in '53, shows seven-panel Superior doors (retrofitted?) and a light weight of 44,400 lbs. These cars are discussed on the RPI site and in Model Railroading 2/1987 p 7.
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Re: BS box car... more info please!
Eric my notes say that it is a "lap seam" roof, but I'm not sure where that came from. The only photo I've ever seen before was in one of the Train Shed Cyclopedia reprints. Tim O'
It also has a flat plate roof (internal carlines). P-S lot 5541.
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Re: Weathering Hopper Car Interiors
Curt Fortenberry
Found this photo while surfing: Gives a little idea of what some of the interiors look like. Curt Fortenberry
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Re: Eras, Paint Schemes and Slogans - the problem ...
Chuck Higdon
I just tried to “search” at this site and all I got were automobile ads and Enterprise car rental.
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
On Behalf Of Steve and Barb Hile
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2014 7:00 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Eras, Paint Schemes and Slogans - the problem ...
I don’t recall seeing any mention of the Steam Era Freight Cars website. There is a lot of very useful information there and the technical backbone to continue to build, but I don’t know if anything is still being actively added. Rob Adams? What’s up with the site?
http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/
Steve Hile
From: STMFC@...
[mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Brian carlson
I guess I
don't fully understand the need, or more correctly I see two separate goals.
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Re: Eras, Paint Schemes and Slogans - the problem ...
devansprr
Mark,
The knowledge available on this group is quite impressive, but as far as I know none of the biologically based, analog computers responding to our queries are eternal. Granted this list is to help today's modelers build historically accurate models, but it is also obvious that many of the answers on this list are not direct quotes from books or official historical society documents. I suspect there are a lot more answers out in the collective memories of this group (in biologic, hard copy, or private electronic forms) than have been recorded in this list's archives. The director of the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania, when asked why a famous, last of its class steam engine was not being restored to running condition, reminded people that his job was to make sure the locomotive would still be representative of the age of steam in a museum 200 years from now. Interesting perspective - based on the passion exhibited by this group, I would suggest that, among the members of this group, there is an amount of "historians" equal to the amount of "modelers." The question is how to preserve all of that privately held historical information. Dave Evans
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Re: Eras, Paint Schemes and Slogans - the problem ...
devansprr
Eric,
I agree. The RPI site is one of the first places I go to when searching for heralds and general info. They cover a lot of the less well known railroads, some or even many of which may not have active historical societies. Not wanting to re-open the fleet balance debate, it is important to note that in 1943, while 12 roads owned about 50% of the box car fleet, 10% of the box cars were owned by 89 of the "lesser" roads (30 other roads held the other 40%). The big roads are well represented on the web and by historical societies, but the lesser roads are not so well represented - maybe only a book. The RPI site is the only site I know that has attempted to create a consolidated list - seems they are worth supporting - just as a time-saver I view the RPI site as money well spent, and the breadth of the content is quite informative. Dave Evans ---In STMFC@..., <eric@...> wrote: I had thought the Rensselaer Railroad Heritage site of the RPI Model Railroad Group was functioning as a collective for prototype information. Of course, it's difficult to document every single prototype detail. Eric Hansmann El Paso, TX
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Sunshine Models 32' trailers on EBay
I have just listed on EBay 2 Sunshine Models 32' Fruehauf trailer kits, 82.3, Overnite, and 82.4, Smiths Transfer, NIB
Bill McCoy Strasburg, PA
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Re: Eras, Paint Schemes and Slogans - the problem ...
Also, for a single, printed source for boxcar information, including lots of photos, one of the primo sources is Ted Culotta’s Reference Manuals, especially the boxcar volume.
http://speedwitchmedia.com/product/steam-era-freight-cars-reference-manual-volume-one/
Regards, Steve Hile
From:
STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Steve and Barb Hile
I don’t recall seeing any mention of the Steam Era Freight Cars website. There is a lot of very useful information there and the technical backbone to continue to build, but I don’t know if anything is still being actively added. Rob Adams? What’s up with the site?
http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/
Steve Hile
From: STMFC@...
[mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Brian
carlson
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2014 8:23 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Eras, Paint Schemes and Slogans - the problem ...
I guess I
don't fully understand the need, or more correctly I see two separate goals.
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Re: C&WC auto box
Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
Note that the car is marked 40-6, built 1-19 and
rebuilt 11-40. These are all the clues needed to determine that it is probably
nee C&WC 8000-8299 built by ACF as a double sheathed USRA box car and
rebuilt into an auto car in series 9000-9146.
The dividend for me was getting a month-year built
for the C&WC series. ACF built this design at three different locations,
each with a different lot number: 8571, 8572, and 8589. Unfortunately, not
all the cars built (including C&WC 8000-8299) have been connected with a
particular location. At least the 1-19 built date seems to rule out 8589 for
C&WC.
Eric N.
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Re: C&WC auto box
earlyrail
From the October 1958 ORER series 9000-9146 40'6", 9'2", 10'4", 3836 cu ft, 80000cpy 124 cars in series Howard Garner --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
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Re: BS box car... more info please!
Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
It also has a flat plate roof (internal carlines).
P-S lot 5541.
Eric N.
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Re: Eras, Paint Schemes and Slogans - the problem ...
I don’t recall seeing any mention of the Steam Era Freight Cars website. There is a lot of very useful information there and the technical backbone to continue to build, but I don’t know if anything is still being actively added. Rob Adams? What’s up with the site?
http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/
Steve Hile
From:
STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Brian carlson
I guess I
don't fully understand the need, or more correctly I see two separate goals.
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