Date   

Re: ATSF class TkG

Bill Kelly
 

I'm having a bit of a problem with the builders of these cars. The full series is 96053-96602 divided into groups of 100, 200, and 250 according to the valuation reports. No builders were identified.
 
Railway Age indicates 100 ordered from SSC in 1905, 100 ordered from PSC in 4-06 and 200 ordered from ACF in 1906, and 250 from PSC in 5-07. That's 100 too many
 
The ACF builders list shows 100 cars ordered in 10-05, lot 4109, and another 200 ordered in 7-06, ot 4522.
 
I can go with the first 100 built being by ACF and not SSC since there was no general arrangement drawing in the SSC collection.
 
I'm thinking the PSC order for 100 was cancelled altogether and the ACF order for 200 was built as 96153-96352 and the PSC order for 250 were built as 96353-96602, although by their WSC&F subsidiary.
 
Does anyone have any thoughts on this matter?
 
Eric N.



Re: Ken Tendick II

Aley, Jeff A
 

I am very sorry to hear of Ken's passing. My thoughts and prayers are with him and his family.

Ken clinics were interesting and he was a cheerful clinician. It was obvious to me that he was a guy who liked to build things! He would sit down and unpack his tools, and start working. He never would wait until the official start time of the clinic; he just started talking about what he was doing, and kept right on going! To that end, he was great at sharing what he knew -- not to show off, but out of a genuine desire to help others.

I'll miss him.

Regards,

-Jeff Aley
Clinic Chairman, Prototype Rails.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Brock [mailto:brockm@cfl.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 4:05 PM
To: Bruce Smith; Mike Rose; Hal Greenlee; STMFC@yahoogroups.com; al_brown03; Aley, Jeff A; Armand Premo; Marty Megregian; brasshat99; Scott Dam
Subject: Ken Tendick II


To the many members of the STMFC that have attended Prototype Rails at Cocoa Beach during the last two years, I have the sad duty to report that on Tuesday, March 11, Prototype Rails and prototype modeling in general, lost a key member of its family when Ken Tendick II passed away unexpectedly. Those that were able to attend his resin car building clinics during the last two Prototype Rails events were, I'm certain, as impressed as I was with his ability to put together resin freight cars in a real time setting in front of an audience of his peers. We used a video camera to bring his modeling techniques to a large screen and the concept worked quite well.

Ken was not only a prolific builder of resin models, but was also very knowledgeable about his prototypes, was a true gentleman and a pleasure to work with. Prototype Rails and prototype modeling will truly miss him.

Mike Brock
Prototype Rails Chairman
STMFC Owner


Ken Tendick II

Mikebrock
 

To the many members of the STMFC that have attended Prototype Rails at Cocoa Beach during the last two years, I have the sad duty to report that on Tuesday, March 11, Prototype Rails and prototype modeling in general, lost a key
member of its family when Ken Tendick II passed away unexpectedly. Those
that were able to attend his resin car building clinics during the last two Prototype Rails events were, I'm certain, as impressed as I was with his ability to put together resin freight cars in a real time setting in front of an audience of his peers. We used a video camera to bring his modeling techniques
to a large screen and the concept worked quite well.

Ken was not only a prolific builder of resin models, but was also very knowledgeable about his prototypes, was a true gentleman and a pleasure to work with. Prototype
Rails and prototype modeling will truly miss him.

Mike Brock
Prototype Rails Chairman
STMFC Owner


Re: reverse engineering or copying?

Charlie Vlk
 

Dennis and all-

 

Guess it depends how good your eyesight is…..

3-D scanning is already being used by progressive manufacturers.   Rapido Trains (Canada) scanned an entire FP-4 (Canadian FA) to nail the nose contours and other details for 3D based conventional tooling.

 

Maybe the Scan to Model part technology isn’t ready for prime time yet, but ten years from now it certainly will be as scanners come down in price and up in resolution and materials get better.  

There are commercial production models out there that have fairly serious errors that nobody has ever noticed……3D Scanning would have eliminated the errors.

 

Shapeways, et al have issues, especially in printing larger items (costs) and smaller scales (resolution/build orientation) but many very usable parts are being printed each day and the quality level/value is anywhere maybe a C-  to an A- depending on the part.

 

I’ve had some parts printed and they have turned out really well.    The “rice paddy” layering on curved surfaces or flats in some orientations can be troubling but a lot of stuff is available that with a little work can make up a nice model…..for prototypes that have a snowball’s chance in hell of getting mad in injection molded tooling…even in an era where there are competing models of Sharknoses and Baldwin Centipedes!!!!  

 

Charlie Vlk

 

 

"I'm sure 3-D scanning will have a place, but it is hardly a panacea; nowhere in the foreseeable future are you going to be able to point your "Instamatic Scanner" at a prototype and send the file out to Shapeways to get a model back, and certainly not anywhere near a price modelers will feel is reasonable."


Dennis Storzek

 


Re: ATSF class TkG

George Hollwedel
 

The Santa Fe Society book by Richard Hendrickson and Richard Pelouze says:

PSC 100, AC&F 200 Western Steel Car Co 250
 
Prototype N Scale Models (TM)
by George Hollwedel
2108 Buffalo Tundra Dr
Austin, TX 78754-5960
512-579-0539
http://www.micro-trains.com/hollwedel.php
http://www.atlasrr.com/special.htm
http://intermountain-railway.com/n/sr/nsr.htm
http://www.bluford-shops.com/bluford_93_014.htm

From: Eric Neubauer
To: STMFC
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 5:06 PM
Subject: [STMFC] ATSF class TkG



I'm having a bit of a problem with the builders of these cars. The full series is 96053-96602 divided into groups of 100, 200, and 250 according to the valuation reports. No builders were identified.
 
Railway Age indicates 100 ordered from SSC in 1905, 100 ordered from PSC in 4-06 and 200 ordered from ACF in 1906, and 250 from PSC in 5-07. That's 100 too many
 
The ACF builders list shows 100 cars ordered in 10-05, lot 4109, and another 200 ordered in 7-06, ot 4522.
 
I can go with the first 100 built being by ACF and not SSC since there was no general arrangement drawing in the SSC collection.
 
I'm thinking the PSC order for 100 was cancelled altogether and the ACF order for 200 was built as 96153-96352 and the PSC order for 250 were built as 96353-96602, although by their WSC&F subsidiary.
 
Does anyone have any thoughts on this matter?
 
Eric N.





ATSF class TkG

Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 

I'm having a bit of a problem with the builders of these cars. The full series is 96053-96602 divided into groups of 100, 200, and 250 according to the valuation reports. No builders were identified.
 
Railway Age indicates 100 ordered from SSC in 1905, 100 ordered from PSC in 4-06 and 200 ordered from ACF in 1906, and 250 from PSC in 5-07. That's 100 too many
 
The ACF builders list shows 100 cars ordered in 10-05, lot 4109, and another 200 ordered in 7-06, ot 4522.
 
I can go with the first 100 built being by ACF and not SSC since there was no general arrangement drawing in the SSC collection.
 
I'm thinking the PSC order for 100 was cancelled altogether and the ACF order for 200 was built as 96153-96352 and the PSC order for 250 were built as 96353-96602, although by their WSC&F subsidiary.
 
Does anyone have any thoughts on this matter?
 
Eric N.


LV rebuilt freight cars

ed_mines
 

More than once I bought a photo unseen of what I thought was a unique LV freight car only to find that it had been rebuilt (or rebuilt for a second time) with standard components and looked pretty much like a common

car (unique covered hopper for example).

 

I have a copy of the photo with 7 ribs which I believe came from Chuck Yungkurth. He put me in touch with Mr. Stilwel who had some LV freight car photos and negatives from the LV shops in Sayre, PA. Stilwel's LV freight car photos were destroyed in a flood in his basement.but several appear in a LV soft cover book by Mr. Yungkurth.

 

Ed Mines


Shapeways for Dummies

np328
 

Stepping well around the prior postings about.......Hmmmm, I'll say pattern acquisition of 3-D printing.


      I had meant to post this earlier, as a follow up to the comments of Tom Madden, and when he talked about Shapeways. I saw the following one evening and I took it as one idea on where things are at right now with 3-D printing.  One of the comment made by Tom (printing orientation) is addressed with the  - cheek to jowl - comment once they get to the Shapeways site.  It is a 8.5 minute video, and if the link does not do it, Google up  - PBS Newshour - and then search with the term - Shapeways.   

  Here is the link : http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/3d-printing-revolution/   


                                                                                                       James Dick - Roseville, MN


Train shed cycs.

CJ Riley
 

I have 4 volumes for sale that may be of interest:
 No.11 Freight cars 1879-1943
No 26 Railway Service Cars
No. 29 Freight Cars 1892
No 48 Hoppers, Industrials, Lettering (Part 2) 1931
I would like to sell as a group $25 plus shipping

I also have a number of the Structure, Passenger Car and Locomotive series for those interested.
Off line please: cjriley42@...


Re: RR Tie Brown / Grimy Black recipe

Burl Rice
 

I'm using it for weathering - specifically freight cars.  I need acrylic for what I'm doing.

I could have sworn I saw someone post a recipe for it a year or two ago.  Must have been on another list.

For my rails, I have been using the Krylon Camo Brown straight from the can.  I have been pretty happy with it.  I also use it for a base coat for truck sideframes, and sometimes boxcar roofs.


Re: RR Tie Brown / Grimy Black recipe

Gary Ray
 

I needed to paint my rails and ties and needed a large quantity.  I decanted Rustoleum’s Camouflage colors by hot gluing a flex straw to the tip.  I mixed 6 parts earth brown (#1918) with 1 part (#1917) for a close but not exact match to Floquil Rail Brown.  Didn’t know what you were going to use RR tie brown for, but very happy with my track and ties with this mixture.  Oversprayed some areas lightly with Rust.  Used airbrush set at 20#.  Cost was a little over $5 for over 12 oz. of paint.  Hope this helps.

Gary Ray

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of burl@...
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 12:13 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] RR Tie Brown / Grimy Black recipe

 




Does anyone have a recipe that approximates PollyScale “RR Tie Brown” and  “Grimy Black”?

 

Thanks,

Burl Rice

Sparta, TN





Re: reverse engineering or copying?

Tony Thompson
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:

All these technologies follow the same course:
First they are a gleam in someone's eye .
Then they become a buzzword.
Then they become "high tech."
Then finally they become a commodity process, IF they hadn't fallen by the wayside because they really didn't live up to their promise.
That's when they finally become affordable in this industry.

        When I was in materials research, and repeatedly heard about "wonder materials" just over the horizon, a saying emerged, that you should write down the first thing you hear about a new material, because it's the best thing you will ever hear.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





RR Tie Brown / Grimy Black recipe

Burl Rice
 

Does anyone have a recipe that approximates PollyScale “RR Tie Brown” and  “Grimy Black”?
 
Thanks,
Burl Rice
Sparta, TN


Re: reverse engineering or copying?

Dennis Storzek
 

Kent,
That's the popular misconception. You hadn't heard of "3-D printing", to use the current buzzword, but those of us who had a legitiment use had, ten, twenty, and even more years ago. 3-D printing springs from Stereolithography, first patented in in 1986:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereolithography

I've been waiting my entire career as a model railroad manufacturer to see if this will prove useful, and as of yet, it hasn't. The same way with laser machining, yeah, it does have uses, the little AJAX on our brake housings was engraved in the mold cavities with this process, but it also has a LOT of limitations, and cost makes it the choice only when there is no better way.

All these technologies follow the same course:
First they are a gleam in someone's eye .
Then they become a buzzword.
Then they become "high tech."
Then finally they become a commodity process, IF they hadn't fallen by the wayside because they really didn't live up to their promise.
That's when they finally become affordable in this industry.

Dennis Storzek


---In STMFC@..., <nvrr49@...> wrote :

"I'm sure 3-D scanning will have a place, but it is hardly a panacea; nowhere in the foreseeable future are you going to be able to point your "Instamatic Scanner" at a prototype and send the file out to Shapeways to get a model back, and certainly not anywhere near a price modelers will feel is reasonable."

Dennis Storzek

We are a lot closer than you think.  MakerBot already has a scanner available that will scan an item, and make a file that can be sent directly to their printer.  It does not do the quality you and I would want, but I am 58, and I think I could see the day when it will do what we want.  Ten years ago I would have said, "what is a 3d printer?".  Now I own one!

Kent Hurley
nvrr49.blogspot.com


Re: reverse engineering or copying?

csxt5555
 

Well actually it's closer than you may think.  I am working on parts for my Clinchfield challenger and have done a few parts this way. For example I did the exhaust steam injector this way.  I have a guy who has a mobile scanner so he just went to the muesum and scanned the real one.  The scan was uploaded into solid works  and cleaned up and converted to an stl file.  I then printed it in 7 parts and bolted all the parts together just like the real one.  Very very cool stuff and now just about 
Anything can be created if your willing to pay for it.

Kevin Sprayberry


On Mar 13, 2014, at 2:51 PM, <nvrr49@...> wrote:

 

"I'm sure 3-D scanning will have a place, but it is hardly a panacea; nowhere in the foreseeable future are you going to be able to point your "Instamatic Scanner" at a prototype and send the file out to Shapeways to get a model back, and certainly not anywhere near a price modelers will feel is reasonable."

Dennis Storzek

We are a lot closer than you think.  MakerBot already has a scanner available that will scan an item, and make a file that can be sent directly to their printer.  It does not do the quality you and I would want, but I am 58, and I think I could see the day when it will do what we want.  Ten years ago I would have said, "what is a 3d printer?".  Now I own one!

Kent Hurley


Re: reverse engineering or copying?

nvrr49@...
 

"I'm sure 3-D scanning will have a place, but it is hardly a panacea; nowhere in the foreseeable future are you going to be able to point your "Instamatic Scanner" at a prototype and send the file out to Shapeways to get a model back, and certainly not anywhere near a price modelers will feel is reasonable."

Dennis Storzek

We are a lot closer than you think.  MakerBot already has a scanner available that will scan an item, and make a file that can be sent directly to their printer.  It does not do the quality you and I would want, but I am 58, and I think I could see the day when it will do what we want.  Ten years ago I would have said, "what is a 3d printer?".  Now I own one!

Kent Hurley
nvrr49.blogspot.com


Re: reverse engineering or copying?

cinderandeight@...
 

This issue extends well beyond just copying models.  What about the wide spread scanning of photos?  I feel that this has lead to photo dealers cranking up their prices because they know that once a single image is sold, it will be scanned and maybe a dozen of more people will have it, who in turn will scan it for a dozen more..., which soon makes selling additional copies difficult.
This problem was brought home to me at an RPM several years ago.  I'd loaned a set of photos to one of the model magazines, and after a couple years of no action with them I requested their return only to be told they "couldn't find them".  They were photos from my personal collection that I'd never printed for others, but fortunately I owned the negatives and was able to reprint a set for my collection.  At this RPM I attended a show on a topic involving the same cars as my missing set of photos.  It was a very informative show and I enjoyed it, but I was a bit taken aback with it because a third of the illustrations were my "lost" photos, with no credit to my collection mentioned.  I would have gladly shared the photos with the show giver if I'd known his interest.
All I am saying is that perhaps those who freely share other's photos should consider what this might mean down the road as the sources of new photos dry up because there is little reward for the work of printing (or scanning) them.  The same can be said for the copying of models.  Someone had to do the work of developing the original patterns, and if his work is "pillaged" (thanks Pierre, good word for it) what incentive does he have to do more such work for others?  It's a matter of recognizing the efforts of others more than any money involved.  In the end we all work pretty much for free for this hobby.
    Rich Burg


Re: reverse engineering or copying?

Dennis Storzek
 

Aw, heck, the microwave oven had already attained its highest use in in 1970, in the student break room at U of I Chicago Circle, where the students would load it up with ketchup packs and watch them pop. The history of cooking with microwaves is all downhill from there.

There has been technology available to turn hand built pattern work into injection mold cavities for almost as long... I should know, I gave it a whirl in the eighties. The reason most of these processes are no longer available is simply that they offered NO real advantage. It's hard to build good looking and accurate patterns in HO scale, and the inherent inaccuracies run right up against the tighter tolerances required to have a functional mold that will run production.

The art of toolmaking has always been about technologies that will turn gross hand motion into precise movements of a tool; the handles on a milling machine are one way to accomplish this, a pantograph is another, and Computer Numerical Control is just another in a long line of such steps. The problem has always been the finer the resolution required, the more time (and expense) will be involved to obtain a satisfactory result. Scanning doesn't really change this. It's great, as Bill said, for large freeform shapes that are hard to define, and will see increased usage there. But for our models, which are really just a myriad of little geometric shapes, so long as there are drawings available, it's quicker and cheaper to just model it in CAD. And there are more drawings available now than ever before.

Dennis Storzek


copying for you and me

Bill Lane
 

Sorry… I did not mean to start a hizzy. Shoulda known better because that is what happens here.

 

The easiest way is copy casting – old school. It does not take long for the details to fall apart. I never had interest in knocking off anything AC Gilbert did for my modeling. Too crude to begin with.

 

Same thing in reference the earlier thought of 3D scanning for later 3D printing. Even in the best circumstances you are not going to scan an HO brake valve and be wowed at what it looks like in O Scale. We are NOT there yet, and I have my doubts of it will be in less than 5 years. Better off making your own new design file.

 

I have taken a few castings off my models and had them copy cast for my use – were never sold. The items were not offered for sale by the importer.

 

The one item that was copied and sold was with permission. That amounted to about 25 pairs of trucks – hardly worth getting excited about it. It was more of a mercy project of helping a urethane N5c produced without any plans of making the trucks.

 

All the better reason to design and model digitally were they are parametric and can be any scale you want! Join us at Jackson Standard with files you want turned from virtual into real plastic!

 

Thank You,
Bill Lane

Modeling the Mighty Pennsy & PRSL in 1957 in S Scale since 1987

See my finished models at:
http://www.lanestrains.com
Look at what has been made in PRR in S Scale!

 

See my layout progress at:

http://www.lanestrains.com/My_Layout.htm

Custom Train Parts Design
http://www.lanestrains.com/SolidWorks_Modeling.htm

PRR Builders Photos Bought, Sold & Traded
(Trading is MUCH preferred)
http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRphotos.xls 

***Join the PRR T&HS***
The other members are not ALL like me!
http://www.prrths.com
http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRTHS_Application.pdf

Join the Pennsylvania Reading Seashore Lines Historical Society
It's FREE to join! http://www.prslhs.com 
Preserving The Memory Of The PRSL

 


Re: Lehigh Valley 41000 series hopper

John Evans
 

There's one thing you can say about the Lehigh Valley - they keep you guessing when it comes to their rebuilds.  Just start researching the cars they rebuilt into covered hoppers if you don't believe it. 


On Thursday, March 13, 2014 11:29 AM, Eric Neubauer wrote:
 

Doesn't the side design differ from the car pictured in the 1930s article? If so, does this car represent a rebuilt rebuild with new sides?
 
Eric 
The link to the photo of 42060 is at:


Very interesting in that this one was rebuilt with seven side stakes instead of six as shown in the photos of the other two examples.  This one does show the train line along the side sill.

Thank you for the answers to my query and the leads to another photo.

Lou Whiteley


On Thursday, March 13, 2014 6:49 AM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
 
John Evans wrote:
"If the question about the air line is in reference to the rebuilt cars (42000 series) the attached photo of 42060 posted by Ray Stillwell on the Railfan.net LV forum might help."

Can you post a link to the photo or upload the photo to the group website?  The list is set to strip attachments.

Ben Hom




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