Date   

Re: Steam freight car modeling tools - a decent pair of tweezers

Joe Bower <jnbower1@...>
 

As we all know…….find and substitute a duplicate part, install or assemble it, paint the model, and……there in plain sight is the original part where it’s been all along!

Joe


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of destorzek@...
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 3:44 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Steam freight car modeling tools - a decent pair of tweezers

 

 

 



---In STMFC@..., wrote :


I've had it with the collection of "Tool Man" and "Tool Lady" tweezers - I spent a frustrating half hour looking for a part that I managed to flick halfway to the next dimension last night...only to find it on the floor under the modeling desk, pick it up, and flick it off into space again.

 

Not to worry, Marty. You've just propelled the part into the future. All you have to do is sit and wait patiently, and you are sure to catch up with it eventually.  :-)

 

Dennis

 


Sunshine Type 30 and other tanks

Tom Madden
 

The Sunshine Type 30 tank car kit consists of an InterMountain 8K tank car shell plus cast resin underframe, detail parts and dome. Prepping the IM tank is a bit daunting - there's the usual work of removing the tank bands, filling all the holes, replacing rivets where the bands crossed the tank top seam, and removing everything from the lower shell except the rivets and center anchor. In addition, you have to enlarge the dome hole out to the outer edge of the dome saddle, then add a new resin saddle and larger dome. I did one and found the work to accommodate the larger dome was the fussiest part of the whole job.  Frank Hodina, who did the patterns for that kit, thought so too. He wanted to build five so he did one tank really well and had duplicates cast. Frank's tank is complete with dome and includes all of the work described above, plus he spotted holes for all the handrail stanchions. The issue which I place before this august body is (and this is not a for sale post), is there any interest in these? I don't know how many Type 30s Martin sold, or how many got put back on the shelf for another day because of the drudge work of prepping the IM tank shell, but these cast tanks eliminate a LOT of the work in getting that kit built. Shrinkage is just under half a percent, 4.570" vs. 4.590" overall length, less than one HO inch from the center to each end, so it fits the kit underframe very nicely. The pattern needs a couple of tweaks before it's ready for prime time, although the additional work needed on the seven I cast (six for Frank and one for me) is pretty minimal. (The IM shell I spent so much time on went in the trash can.)


I don't see any need for this beyond replacing the tank in the Sunshine Type 30 kit. Tangent's beautiful little three dome tank is on a Type 30 underframe. I don't know what their future plans are, but one would hope they'd do other variations of frame length and gallonage.


While on the subject of replacement tanks, the mods required on the IM 8K tank in the Speedwitch NADX tank kit are exactly those Frank did on the pattern for the Sunshine UTLX X-3 8K Long tank car kit. (And the same as those done for the Type 30, less the new dome.) I recently returned all the X-3 tank patterns to Frank, but if there's interest in replacement tanks for the Speedwitch kit that could be pursued too.


Another use for the same modified IM 8K tank is what Frank calls a GATC "Type 22". This is the early 1920s variation with cast bolsters having integral poling pockets. Frank has done patterns for the bolsters, walkway supports and AB reservoir support channels, variations on those in the Sunshine GATC Radial [circumferential] Rivet tank car kit. At present the underframe is a straightforward kitbash from the InterMountain underframe, but it could possibly be done as a complete cast resin underframe too.


Please, restrict on-list discussion to the general subject of upgraded parts for existing resin kits, and reply off-list with specific requests. And if anyone has a better label than "Type 22", for that GATC tank, please put it forward!


Tom Madden


Re: Steam freight car modeling tools - a decent pair of tweezers

 

How tough is the metal? I have several pair of Gyros that look similar (just
all silver), and the stainless is so weak the tips bend easily.

(also in Nashville)

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: Peter Burr <pburr47@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 at 3:57 PM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Steam freight car modeling tools - a decent pair of
tweezers







Marty,

I was astonished to find these on amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BG8WW2Y/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UT
F8&psc=1

Very fine non magnetic micro tweezers, both straight and curved for a
ridiculously cheap price! I bought two sets (four tweezers in all) for the
princely sum of $9.26! If you are looking for very delicate ones, these are
the bee's knees. If you want something more substantial, I like Adson
forceps, which you should be able to order from any surgical instrument
supplier.



Peter Burr
Nashville, TN
931-808-5125

Make A Promise To Yourself:
I Will Research My News
I Will Accept No Fear Tactics










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Steam freight car modeling tools - a decent pair of tweezers

Peter Burr <pburr47@...>
 

Marty,

I was astonished to find these on amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BG8WW2Y/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Very fine non magnetic micro tweezers, both straight and curved for a ridiculously cheap price! I bought two sets (four tweezers in all) for the princely sum of $9.26! If you are looking for very delicate ones, these are the bee's knees. If you want something more substantial, I like Adson forceps, which you should be able to order from any surgical instrument supplier.



Peter Burr
Nashville, TN
931-808-5125

Make A Promise To Yourself:
I Will Research My News
I Will Accept No Fear Tactics


Re: Steam freight car modeling tools - a decent pair of tweezers

Tim O'Connor
 

Instead of trying to describe my tweezers I just took a photo.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/45425384@N04/sets/72157642917479595/

The ones to the far left are my favorite -- cheap, light, good grip.
No idea where I found them.

The Xurons next to them are great for tiny stuff, and especially for
precise placement of decals (not to mention poking out air bubbles)

The lock-clamp tweezers are very useful, sometimes used for painting.

The 3 non-locking clamp tweezers are X-Acto, X-Acto, and Kadee, from
left to right.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Steam freight car modeling tools - a decent pair of tweezers

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <mjmcguirk@...> wrote :


I've had it with the collection of "Tool Man" and "Tool Lady" tweezers - I spent a frustrating half hour looking for a part that I managed to flick halfway to the next dimension last night...only to find it on the floor under the modeling desk, pick it up, and flick it off into space again.

 

Not to worry, Marty. You've just propelled the part into the future. All you have to do is sit and wait patiently, and you are sure to catch up with it eventually.  :-)


Dennis

 


Re: Steam freight car modeling tools - a decent pair of tweezers

Nelson Moyer <ku0a@...>
 

I too was first introduced to the Dumont line of precision tweezers in a graduate school electron microscopy course. We used #5 for handling grids. I did a lot of electron microscopy over the next three years, and I kept some of these tweezers we ‘retired’ due to even a slight imperfection in the points. They have been invaluable in model building, and my oldest pair is 41 years old. I recently purchased a pair of #2a tweezers to facilitate installation of wire grab irons. The flat blade gives a good grip, and it’s helpful in adjusting the standoff distance. I’m with Jack; don’t buy hobby tools. Buy precision instruments, and you will only buy once.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 1:37 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Steam freight car modeling tools - a decent pair of tweezers

 

 

 Marty McGuirk wrote:



 

I've had it with the collection of "Tool Man" and "Tool Lady" tweezers - I spent a frustrating half hour looking for a part that I managed to flick halfway to the next dimension last night...only to find it on the floor under the modeling desk, pick it up, and flick it off into space again. 

Anyone have a recommendation on a pair of modeling tweezers that they absolutlely love? I'm afraid most of mine are going to end up stuck in the wall after being tossed in frustration.

     I have used Dumont (Swiss) #3 and #5 tweezers for many years (often specified for electron microscopy, something I did in a previous life) and they are great. Not cheap, though.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com

(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...

Publishers of books on railroad history

 

 

 


Re: Code 88 Wheels and 58 couplers

Steve Nelson <snelson33@...>
 

In HO scale most people can’t tell the difference between scale, semi scale or non-scale wheels unless they are looking dead on at the end of the car and can see the tread width.  Even more difficult if the wheels are weathered and it is certainly not worth the cost to change out all of the non-scale wheels on a large layout just so you can say you have prototypical wheels, unless they actually perform better. I can tell you from experience that scale wheels will typically fall into the frogs of Shinohara and other ready made turnouts. So if you decide to have prototypical wheels, you will probably have to scratch build your turnouts or modify the gaps on all of the frogs of your existing turnouts and on a large layout that can become costly in time and money. However, couplers are a different matter.  The majority of people can see the difference in size between a scale coupler (Kadee 58) and non scale (Kadee 5).  I regularly run 60 car freights and have never had a problem with 58’s. They couple and uncouple with picts no differently than the number 5’s.
 
 
Steve Nelson


Re: Steam freight car modeling tools - a decent pair of tweezers

Gene Deimling
 

Marty
I bought a pair of Wiha AA SA-ESD tweezers from Amazon for under $20 including shipping.  German made with a non-slip coating on the body.

Gene Deimling


Re: Steam freight car modeling tools - a decent pair of tweezers

Jack Burgess <jack@...>
 

Marty...

 

I wrote an article on tweezers for Model Railroad Hobbyist a year or so ago...this is the main part:

 

My tweezers were made by Vigor of Switzerland. Vigor has now merged with Peer and their tweezers are sold under the Peer-Vigor name. Similar tweezers are marketed by Dumont. Mine are stainless steel, which is more expensive than the carbon steel ones but stainless steel won’t rust. Carbon steel tweezers are less expensive than stainless steel but harder which makes the tips more durable. But carbon steel tweezers are more likely to break if stressed, are easily magnetized, and can rust when exposed to plain water or even high humidity conditions. Plus, they require proper cleaning, oiling and storage.

 

I purchased my tweezers from Otto Frei, a jewelers supply outlet in Oakland, CA which now has an extensive online store. This following link will lead to a set of Dumont No. 3 stainless steel tweezers:

                                http://www.ottofrei.com/search.php?mode=search&page=1

 

The number 3 tweezers are near the bottom of the page. These tweezers cost about $25 a pair which probably seems high for such a small tool. That is twice as much as the “tweezers sets” available from some hobby vendors. However, I have never found any need for more than my one pair of No. 3 tweezers. Keep in mind that $25 for my pair of tweezers is only $1 per year for the time that I’ve owned them so far. I fully expect to still be using them 10-15 years from now.

 

I'll send you the photos that were part of that article directly...

 

Jack Burgess

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Marty McGuirk
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 11:31 AM
To: STMFC
Subject: [STMFC] Steam freight car modeling tools - a decent pair of tweezers

 





I've had it with the collection of "Tool Man" and "Tool Lady" tweezers - I spent a frustrating half hour looking for a part that I managed to flick halfway to the next dimension last night...only to find it on the floor under the modeling desk, pick it up, and flick it off into space again.

 

Anyone have a recommendation on a pair of modeling tweezers that they absolutlely love? I'm afraid most of mine are going to end up stuck in the wall after being tossed in frustration.

 

TIA,

Marty McGuirk

 





Re: Steam freight car modeling tools - a decent pair of tweezers

Bill Welch
 

Marty:
Hopefully this will not cause a "gold rush" but there are several vintage Dumonts on Ebay right now at nice prices, one pair of #5's starting at .25 cents with four days to go. Other are Buy Now.
Bill Welch


Re: Steam freight car modeling tools - a decent pair of tweezers

Armand Premo
 


 My problem seems to be the sea of silver tools and those round ones that roll off the bench.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
To: STMFC
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 2:30 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Steam freight car modeling tools - a decent pair of tweezers

 


I've had it with the collection of "Tool Man" and "Tool Lady" tweezers - I spent a frustrating half hour looking for a part that I managed to flick halfway to the next dimension last night...only to find it on the floor under the modeling desk, pick it up, and flick it off into space again.

 

Anyone have a recommendation on a pair of modeling tweezers that they absolutlely love? I'm afraid most of mine are going to end up stuck in the wall after being tossed in frustration.

 

TIA,

Marty McGuirk

 


Re: Steam freight car modeling tools - a decent pair of tweezers

Armand Premo
 


Join the club Marty.It's all in the game----- Original Message -----
To: STMFC
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 2:30 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Steam freight car modeling tools - a decent pair of tweezers

 


I've had it with the collection of "Tool Man" and "Tool Lady" tweezers - I spent a frustrating half hour looking for a part that I managed to flick halfway to the next dimension last night...only to find it on the floor under the modeling desk, pick it up, and flick it off into space again.

 

Anyone have a recommendation on a pair of modeling tweezers that they absolutlely love? I'm afraid most of mine are going to end up stuck in the wall after being tossed in frustration.

 

TIA,

Marty McGuirk

 


Re: Steam freight car modeling tools - a decent pair of tweezers

Tony Thompson
 

 Marty McGuirk wrote:

 
I've had it with the collection of "Tool Man" and "Tool Lady" tweezers - I spent a frustrating half hour looking for a part that I managed to flick halfway to the next dimension last night...only to find it on the floor under the modeling desk, pick it up, and flick it off into space again. 

Anyone have a recommendation on a pair of modeling tweezers that they absolutlely love? I'm afraid most of mine are going to end up stuck in the wall after being tossed in frustration.

     I have used Dumont (Swiss) #3 and #5 tweezers for many years (often specified for electron microscopy, something I did in a previous life) and they are great. Not cheap, though.
Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Steam freight car modeling tools - a decent pair of tweezers

Tom Vanwormer
 

I was given a pair of Surgical Tweezers by my wife's surgeon after he removed her stitches long ago.  It seems most of the instruments are now "throw aways."  I now "swear by" rather than "swear at" them.
Tom VanWormer
Monument CO

Marty McGuirk wrote:

 


I've had it with the collection of "Tool Man" and "Tool Lady" tweezers - I spent a frustrating half hour looking for a part that I managed to flick halfway to the next dimension last night...only to find it on the floor under the modeling desk, pick it up, and flick it off into space again.

 

Anyone have a recommendation on a pair of modeling tweezers that they absolutlely love? I'm afraid most of mine are going to end up stuck in the wall after being tossed in frustration.

 

TIA,

Marty McGuirk



Steam freight car modeling tools - a decent pair of tweezers

Marty McGuirk
 


I've had it with the collection of "Tool Man" and "Tool Lady" tweezers - I spent a frustrating half hour looking for a part that I managed to flick halfway to the next dimension last night...only to find it on the floor under the modeling desk, pick it up, and flick it off into space again.

 

Anyone have a recommendation on a pair of modeling tweezers that they absolutlely love? I'm afraid most of mine are going to end up stuck in the wall after being tossed in frustration.

 

TIA,

Marty McGuirk

 


Re: Code 88 Wheels and 58 couplers

Andy Sperandeo
 

I too like the look of code 88 wheels and scale-size Kadee couplers (these days I use a lot more 153s than 58s). The wheels work perfectly on my track, or I wouldn't use them. I don't see why everyone else shouldn't have as much fun as I do.

So long,

Andy 


Re: HO Code 88 Wheels

Andy Sperandeo
 

Hi Chris,

There are several sources, including InterMountain, NorthWest Short Line, ReBoxx, and Tangent Scale Models. Also, Tahoe Model Works has caboose trucks with all-metal code 88 wheelsets.

Good luck with your caboose,

Andy


Re: Code 88 Wheels and 58 couplers

Tony Thompson
 

Jim Betz wrote:

Similarly - and in my opinion even more noticeable - the 58s are much more difficult to couple and uncouple - and they do not interface well with #5s. In addition, simply due to the decrease in the dimensions of the vertical faces and the 'gather' - they are more likely to 'spontaneously uncouple' when going over/thru track with vertical kinks/height mismatches between two adjacent pieces of rail ... or our turnouts.

           This can appear true, but remember that the Kadee #5 has an exaggerated vertical dimension, which is why it is forgiving over excessive vertical curves. And the amount of coupler swing as well as the gathering width of the coupler body are, again, exaggerated in the #5. In reality, the #58 is much more like a prototype coupler, and if you watch a prototype switchman, yep, he has to align drawbars, just as we do with 58s, and he can't couple up on a sharp curve. Sure, the #5 has been convenient for years, but in reality its unrealistic dimensions are maybe something we OUGHT to be getting away from, in favor of coupling more like the prototype..
            I have not had trouble at all mating #5s with 58s, but it is vital that both couplers operate very freely. This aspect seems more important that with all 5s, but I have not found it hard to accomplish.

I use coupling picks 'all' of the time. No matter what size/style of pick I'm using the 58s are harder to uncouple and couple. When uncoupling they just don't separate as easily - and when coupling they just don't couple up easily ... both comparisons are to my experience with #5s. And both comparisons apply to 58s with 5s or 58s with 58s.

     True about coupling (see above), but I would say not true about uncoupling, in my experience. You do need to make sure your uncoupling pick has a smaller tip than what works with #5s.
      Personally, I am slowly replacing #5s on older models with 58s, but feel no urgency to do so, other than improving appearance, as my experience has been that the two sizes DO play well together.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Code 88 Wheels and 58 couplers

Jim Betz
 

Hi,

The following are my opinions, experiences, advise
and observations ...

**********************************************
* I -love- the look of the more prototypically sized
* wheels ("code 88) and couplers (#58s). Having
* said that ...
**********************************************

If you have truly "perfect" track then you can run code 88s
and not have too many more derailments. If you run some
88s and also some regular wheelsets at the same time
(different cars) then you will observe that the 88s are
"more likely to derail" than the regular wheelsets. I have
never seen any numbers on "how much more likely".
I have not noticed any increase in derailments when 88s are
coupled to cars with regular wheelsets so there does not
seem to be any kind of problem similar to couplers (see
below).
That term "perfect track" is relative - it changes from layout
to layout. Some layouts, that run fine with regular wheels,
are much more prone to derailments with 88s than others.
Many (most?) layout owners are highly reluctant to rework
their track to correct problems. For instance they will go to
great lengths to avoid pulling up and relaying a turnout. If
we were all better at laying track the first time - or more
willing to change track that is down and in service ... then
code 88s would be easier to use ...

Similarly - and in my opinion even more noticeable - the 58s
are much more difficult to couple and uncouple - and they
do not interface well with #5s. In addition, simply due to the
decrease in the dimensions of the vertical faces and the
'gather' - they are more likely to 'spontaneously uncouple'
when going over/thru track with vertical kinks/height
mismatches between two adjacent pieces of rail ... or our
turnouts.
I use coupling picks 'all' of the time. No matter what
size/style of pick I'm using the 58s are harder to uncouple
and couple. When uncoupling they just don't separate
as easily - and when coupling they just don't couple up
easily ... both comparisons are to my experience with #5s.
And both comparisons apply to 58s with 5s or 58s with 58s.

****

Whether you choose to use semi-scale couplers and wheels
is -your- choice.
If you are "into Ops" then you have a much different set of
values/decisions than if you aren't - and the choice is not easy.
We all, including myself, want our equipment to look as
prototypical as possible (especially those of us on this list) ...
but we still have to deal with 'the realities of whether/where/how
our equipment is operated'.
Locally (SF Bay Area) many layouts have chosen to go all
58s. Far fewer have chosen to go all 88s.

****

Car standards and maintenance levels affect all of the
above. The more likely that all of your cars have all of
their couplers at exactly the same height and all of their
wheelsets perfectly in gauge the more reliable your
operation will be.
This is true for both semi-scale and regular wheels and
couplers.

The cost of converting an entire fleet of cars and locos
can be a serious consideration depending upon the size
of the fleet! I use "about $10 a car" as a rule of thumb
for doing both the wheelsets and couplers. That can
quickly add up to "serious money" when contemplating
doing all the equipment on a layout. Especially if your
fleet already has 'regular' couples and wheels.

****

I do not know of any layouts/guys who use prototypically
accurate wheels (63s) or couplers (Sergent) on Ops oriented
layouts. I'm not saying they don't exist ... I just have never
operated on one.
- Jim Betz

P.S. On the average I operate on at least 4 to 5 different
layouts a month. Most of them are HO. And most
of them are "ops sessions" of 3 to 6 hours long and a
crew of 3-4 to 18-or-more operators. Most of them
have been 'experimenting' with semi-scale since the
wheelsets and couplers became available ...

70221 - 70240 of 193502