Date   

Re: Bowser PRR H30 and N&W HC1 covered hoppers

David
 

N&W built ten clones of the PRR design, so both road names are legit (although the N&W cars had Crown trucks, ironically). These were used in cement service, so anything that would have called for cement from PRR or N&W territory would suffice.

David Thompson


RPP CYC #28 Arrives

Bill Welch
 

My copy of #28 arrived today. Twice a year Ed and Pat amaze me with the material they provide on the standard freight cars of our favorite era in a well organized understandable format. Thank you Ed and Pat!
Bill Welch


heaviest 33" HO wheel sets

ed_mines
 

Who makes the heaviest 33" Ho wheel sets?

 

Ed Mines


Erie 79000 series box cars

ed_mines
 

There are some good builders photos of these on the fallen flags site.. Good diagram too.

 

Ed Mines


Bowser PRR H30 and N&W HC1 covered hoppers

Robert kirkham
 

Hi there – saw the announcement of these cars and after a frustrating search of the list messages to locate previous discussions (some but not what I’m looking for) I’m wondering two things I hope some on this list can help with:
- how accurate are the models for the two railroads listed above?  (i.e. is this a PRR model in N&W paint, vice versa, or something short of both)?
- what is the chance of either car getting to port in Canada on the Pacific Coast post-WWII?  I’m not sure what commodities they were used for in the immediate post war era.
 
Thanks in advance.
 
Rob Kirkham


Re: Interesting car movements

Dave Nelson
 

WRT the mty NP flats… I’m of the opinion the Ft Dodge Yardmaster was following car service rules by routing them back to Peoria.  IIRC, the rules state IF you can a load that is in the general direction of a car’s home rails use it, else return the empty to the railroad from whom you received it when loaded.

 

And so if that is correct then it makes sense to return them to Peoria and let the other road to use them again… or send them on to whomever they got the loads from.  The fact that sending the empties to Minneapolis, which would have been the short route to NP tracks, makes good sense but I’m pretty sure that’s not what the rules call for. 

 

Dave Nelson


FS Greenville Flat car kits

Doug Junda
 

Sorry for the use of bandwidth on a FOR SALE

I have about 20-30 kits of the Greenville flat cars for sale.
I with Protowest Models and clearing out some old inventory.

The kits come 2 falt cars per Box, and include all detail part, No trucks or couplers.
The have decals for ATSF, Erie, NYC and some limited B&O. The kits normally sold for $44.95. I'm clearing them at at $30.00 plus shipping.

The kits are resin and offer great detail.

Please contact me at djunda AT pdtnetworks DOT org.

I can do check, or Paypal.

Thanks again for looking at this.

Doug Junda


HO Barber 70 Ton Trucks

 

After a wait of several years, I am offering the Red Caboose 70 Ton truck to the group at $3.90/pair without wheel sets. Postage will be added and for Paypay, their extra fees will be added.

These trucks were originally done for the RC SP F-70-7 flatcar and other SP cars used these trucks also, although spring packs varied on some. As Richard Hendrickson noted:"the Barber S-2 was one of the two truck designs that were widely used from the end of WW II through the '50s (the other being the ASF A-3), so the 70 ton Barber S-2 was applied to many cars built for many different railroads, chiefly (but not exclusively) flat cars, mill gondolas, large hoppers, and covered hoppers. Later in the '50s, they were also applied to a growing number of 70 ton box, auto, insulated box, and mechanical refrigerator cars.
.If you are interested or have questions, contact me OFF LIST at <espeefan@...>. Thanks.

Dan Smith


Re: Interesting car movements

Clark Propst
 

It’s possible the produce cars were not sold and moving in the longest route east possible?
 
I really didn’t think the NP cars were a set, but those things cross your mind. The M&StL interchanged with many RRs in Peoria, they could have been heading farther?
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: End Views – Reefers & Hopper At Swift & Company (Denver)

mark <caboose9792@...>
 

Is that bone chunks or something else getting loaded into the hopper?


mark Rickert
caboose9792@...


-----Original Message-----
From: David Allen
To: STMFC
Sent: Fri, Apr 4, 2014 1:31 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: End Views – Reefers & Hopper At Swift & Company (Denver)

 
Bob Chaparro offered the url:
http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/34939/rec/38
showing cars at a Swift packing plant in Denver. One of the cars, UP 80768, is, I believe a ballast car - data below.

Be well, all; keep on shoveling.  Dave Allen

=======================================================================
UP_80853 ballast car dimensional data RyAge v32 1901
=======================================================================
Railway Age v32, 1901

Length over end sills ------------------ 40' 0"
Length inside of body ------------------ 32' 7 1/4"
Width over all -------------------------  9' 4"
Width inside of body -------------------  8' 8 1/2"
Height from rail to top of body --------  8' 3"
Height to top of brake shaft -----------  5' 5 1/4"
Height to top of center sill -----------  3' 3 1/2"
Distance between truck centers --------- 31' 1"
Size of journals ----------------------- 5 1/2" x 10"
Wheel base of trucks -------------------  5' 6"
Center of journals ---------------------  6' 5"
Weight of car empty --------------------  37,600 lbs.
Capacity loaded with coal -------------- 100,000 lbs.
Capacity loaded with ballast ----------- 110,000 lbs



Re: Interesting car movements

np328
 

Clark, of the NP flats.  I have found via research that in later years both the NP and GN had decided the Q should concentrate on having most of the flat cars of the three Hill Lines, and the most specialized ones also. The reasoning being was that the Q was closest to the heavy manufacturing center of Chicago which generated the greatest need for these cars. This would give the appearance of the NP and GN being flat car poor and the Q flat car heavy when in reality, this was a smart market driven decision.

I am thinking (and this is just conjecture) that this decision came about because there were movements such as you list with these two empty flats rolling away from home.

One other thing, the NP had sales offices well off line in places like Baltimore, Philadelphia, and Pittsburg and so on. And if your check an Official Guide, you will find just about all other railroads had sales agents pounding the pavement out an office far from the home road.

It is possible these flats were on their way to bring a load home. If I can get copyright permission to post the monthly sales reports I'd found, I will.   

And I still need to transcribe some NP car movements. Brand new box cars which made one loaded movement on the NP before not returning home – for years. This was part of my past Cocoa Beach presentation on why everybody needs NP cars.           Jim Dick – St. Paul


Re: Interesting car movements

Douglas Harding
 

Jim, Fort Dodge to Peoria is about 350 miles. Your suggestion of lumber
loads on NP flats to Iowa is indeed a good one. Plus Iowa had a number of
farm implement factories in the State, so flat cars were a needed car.

As to M&StL flatcars, in 1953 the railroad had 347 steel 50' and 53'6"
flatcars, 9% of their entire freight car fleet. These cars can be modeled in
HO with the Chad Boaz flat car and/or the PK2 flatcar. The M&StL served the
Minneapolis-Moline plant in Minnesota, and other communities with farm
implement and heavy equipment manufacture, including John Deere in Des
Moines and Caterpillar and Letoureau in Peoria. Smaller implement
manufacturers could be found in many Iowa towns.

I've been pondering on the loads of grapes Clark mentions. There was a
Western Iowa Grape Growers association based in Council Bluffs, as Iowa as
at one time raised a lot of grapes. Now it is possible the cars were Iowa
grown grapes, but I don't believe Fort Dodge was an area with grape growers.
And why would they be in PFE reefers? So most likely they came from the
Omaha gateway or Council Bluffs on the IC to Fort Dodge, which is an odd
routing.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: Interesting car movements

earlyrail
 

Second interesting move is three PFE reefers 90703, 2381, 6689 and one MDT 10441. 90703 has a load of melons and the other three carried grapes. These cars are from Ft Dodge (where train originated) bound for the Wabash in Des Moines. To me not knowing, or caring, much about western produce movements I’d think the eastern gateway would be Omaha - Council Bluffs? The IC run from CB to Ft Dodge. Maybe that’s how the M&StL got the cars? The RI ran from CB straight to Des Moines. Why weren’t the cars routed that way? The Wabash had a line into CB. Why weren’t the cars delivered to them there?
Not sure about the grapes, but melons could have originated in the upper mid west.

Howard Garner

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Re: West India Fruit Box cars

al_brown03
 

The WIF 100-series cars are 10' IH versions of the 1923 ARA steel boxcar; WIF acquired ten in early 1949 from the High Point, Thomasville, & Denton. The ORER series was 100-199 but the photos I've seen are all of cars numbered 10x, so I suspect only numbers 100-109 were filled. They were funny-looking to say the least, and are modelled by Sunshine kit 102.12.

WIF 200-349 were built by AC&F in January 1952 (Lot #01-3593). Some published photos:
WIF 210, Bramson, "Speedway to Sunshine", p 65
WIF 231, English, MM 5/88 pp 52-54
WIF 269, RMJ 10/90 p 55
WIF 289 (builder's photo): Kaminski, "American Car & Foundry", p 191
WIF 314, Henderson, "Classic Freight Cars vol 1", p 43

The combination of 12-panel welded sides, 10'6" IH, 1+3/4 "Dartnaught" ends, a rectangular-panel roof, and an 8' Improved Youngstown door is unusual ... again, to say the least! English modified a Front Range kit; at this point I think I'd start with a C&BT Shops #11500. Remove the "darts" from the ends, sand off the side rivets, replace the crummy details with good ones, and you're close.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Re: West India Fruit Box cars

Bill Welch
 

Depends on what your definition of "reasonable" is. The roof and ends are entirely wrong.
Bill Welch


Re: PRR K7 stock car questions

proto48er
 

Rich - Thank you very much! 


Re: West India Fruit Box cars

T.J. Stratton
 

Jerry Glow now offers decals for the 200 series cars in all scales.  Does anyone know if the old cars produced in the late 1980's by Front Range would fit the bill as a reasonable start?  They had welded side 6 and 8 ft. door cars available.  I know my "basement" hobby shop must have several of them!

TJ Stratton Maumee, OH. "Modeling the 1950's branch lines of the Michigan Central Railroad in southern Michigan" Mailto:michigancentralrr@...


To: STMFC@...
From: eaneubauer@...
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 17:29:02 -0400
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: West India Fruit Box cars

 

HPT&D 400-424 built SSC Balt 8-29. General arrangement 54515, should be in PA State Archive collection.
 
Eric

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2014 4:30 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: West India Fruit Box cars

 
The cars cars in the 100 series were built by the High Point, Thomasville and Denton RR in North Carolina for furniture loading. They are equipped with early Duryea underframes. The went to WIF in the late 1940's. Sunshine did kits while F&C claims to have released these as well.
The 200 series were built by AC&F and were welded cars with their very odd welded roof that is developmental stages by a purveyor of resin kits. The cars were 10' 6"interior height.
Bill Welch




Re: West India Fruit Box cars

Dave Sarther
 

For STMFC modelers who choose to model in O-Scale two rail or Proto 48, Norm Buckhart of Protocraft Models offers a set of decals for the WIF cars in the 200 series with a note that there were two steamship profiles used.  He has also posted two additional photos as reference.  Check out Norm's site: http://www.protocraft.com/category.cfm?ItemID=16&Categoryid=20
 
Later,  Dave Sarther     Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Neubauer
To: STMFC
Sent: Fri, Apr 4, 2014 2:29 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: West India Fruit Box cars

 

HPT&D 400-424 built SSC Balt 8-29. General arrangement 54515, should be in PA State Archive collection.
 
Eric
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2014 4:30 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: West India Fruit Box cars

 
The cars cars in the 100 series were built by the High Point, Thomasville and Denton RR in North Carolina for furniture loading. They are equipped with early Duryea underframes. The went to WIF in the late 1940's. Sunshine did kits while F&C claims to have released these as well.
The 200 series were built by AC&F and were welded cars with their very odd welded roof that is developmental stages by a purveyor of resin kits. The cars were 10' 6"interior height.
Bill Welch


MDC HO Express Reefer Prototype (was Re: End Views - Reefers & Hopper At Swift & Company (Denver))

Benjamin Hom
 

Tom Dill asked:
"Speaking of reefers, is the MDC 50 ft. express reefer close to actual REA reefer?"

No.  The roof curvature is far too shallow to match any REA reefer.  It's actually a good starting point for Lehigh Valley milk cars.  See "Lehigh Valley's 'New' Milk Cars" in the January 1993 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman.

Ben Hom


Re: Interesting car movements

Jim Betz
 

Clark,

Aren't those NP car numbers simple flat cars?
Why not simply lumber loads delivered to somewhere in
Iowa from the PNW (NP or otherwise)? Which is, after
all, the most common load on any PNW flat car ... and
after they've been unloaded ... well, Peoria seems as
likely a place to send them as any other place within
one to two hundred miles of Ft. Dodge, Iowa.

My understanding is that car movement rules ('back
towards their home road') were violated "any time there
was a load going somewhere/anywhere ... needing that
car type".
Yes, if they had a load going towards the home road
and another load (and car) that could go the other way
then they would (or just could?) route cars the way
the 'rules' recommended. But "need always trumped
the recommended". And the revenue for getting a car
loaded was always significantly greater than any
demurrage charge.

Especially on any given day. And it seems un-likely that
the M&StL had a lot of flat cars in their own fleet - so
any load/need would be much more likely to be satisfied
with a 'captured' car ...
- Jim Betz

________________________________________________________________________
1a. Interesting car movements
Posted by: cepropst@q.com rockroll50401
Date: Fri Apr 4, 2014 6:17 am ((PDT))

I’ve had a chance to see an M&StL train list from Oct. 21, 1952. The train, 196, ran from Ft Dodge to Des Moines Ia. had 19 loads 3 empties.

First two cars ahead of the caboose were NP 61143, 61101 listed as empty flats headed for Peoria. My first thought was why are these empty cars heading the wrong way? Are they an articulated set? Then I remembered there were large heavy equipment builders in Peoria. Were those cars assigned there? Next, why are these cars off on a secondary mainline? To get to Peoria they’ll travel from Ft Dodge to Des Moines, then on the Q (via trackage rights) to Oskaloosa Ia. before being added to a Peoria bound train. They must have delivered some heavy equipment up that way? Maybe to the Gypsum mines around Ft Dodge? Was there implement plants there? Cars could have been assigned to one and delivered implements to rural Iowa?

Second interesting move is three PFE reefers 90703, 2381, 6689 and one MDT 10441. 90703 has a load of melons and the other three carried grapes. These cars are from Ft Dodge (where train originated) bound for the Wabash in Des Moines. To me not knowing, or caring, much about western produce movements I’d think the eastern gateway would be Omaha - Council Bluffs? The IC run from CB to Ft Dodge. Maybe that’s how the M&StL got the cars? The RI ran from CB straight to Des Moines. Why weren’t the cars routed that way? The Wabash had a line into CB. Why weren’t the cars delivered to them there?

Fun stuff to ponder...
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

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