Date   

SP GS modeling

John Barry
 

I came across a scene that I just have to recreate, as it occurred at the sand house that I'm modelling in Richmond, CA.  Three different photos of SP drop bottom gons on the supply pile.  Where did the sand come from and how to model it are the two questions that come to mind.  Why is the third.  

I recall something that I think  Tony T posted on his blog about a sand source near Watsonville on the coast.  That could make sense as you want good clean sand for your locos and sources in the central valley not so much.  But I'd like to confirm that.

Two, thanks to the SP info on Railgoat's site I was able to come up with several candidate car numbers.  I'm very confident that the partial number I saw in one photo, 2459, is actually 92459, a G-50-11.  The other number looks like X 3/5 0/6 19 which could fall into the , 92900-93899 G-50-12 (93619, 93019), or the 94500-95199 (95019) series.  Despite NEO, I managed to find some info on the SP GS gondolas and so far I've learned that Detail Associates made a kit that would build the -15 and Ulrich had a cast metal kit that could do the -11/12.  What did I miss?  53120-53729 G-50-2 (53619) would be a possibility, but they were tight bottom cars and the photos show drop bottoms.  I read, but failed to write down the type of end to use for -15 as DA had an option that distinguished it from the other kit that could only make later series cars.  Is there a better option, short of brass that is available for the 11-12 cars?  Do any of you have an Ulrich car you would like to sell?  

Writing this brought up a fourth question related to 1&3, did SP ship sand to other ATSF points?  If so, how was it routed?  I can't see SP short hauling itself and expect that they routed the car SP Richmond ATSF delivery.  I suppose Santa Fe could have ordered the cars for SF delivery and not told SP about the extra distance, but I don't think that would have been kosher.  Besides, someone surely would have seen sand gons on the car floats and snapped a photo, so I don't think that was the routing.  But I could see Fresno and Bakersfield getting their sand from Watsonville too.  This I just have to get to the bottom of. 

All of this is a long way to say that if you model Santa Fe Loco service in NorCal, you need to model SP.


John Barry


ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682


Interesting Phoebe Piggyback on a LV half gon

Brian Carlson
 

From another list thought it would be of interest here.

http://lists.railfan.net/listthumb.cgi?erielack-04-06-14

LV11089-flatwithload.jpg (image/jpeg, 1024x445 73384 bytes, BF: 6.21 ppb)

David J. Monte Verde



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga, NY


Re: UP steel boxcars

caboose9792@...
 

The UP express cars with double doors (is there more than one class?) I am familiar with had high speed trucks. Brad Andonian or anyone else wanting to see a "quick grab" picture of one truck email me today as I happen to have one handy before I hit the road for the week.
Mark Rickert
 

In a message dated 4/3/2014 4:04:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time, oscale@... writes:
Not sure but almost all express cars have at least different details from the straight freight cars - body and under frame

Jack McGarry

Allegheny Scale Models
470 Schooley's Mountain Road
Suite 8-117
Hackettstown, New Jersey
07840


Re: HO Barber 70 Ton Trucks

Dave Pfeiffer
 

Dan,



I am interested in 10 pair shipped to the east coast zip 19450 and paid
through Paypal. Thanks.



Dave Pfeiffer







From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
espeefan@aceweb.com
Sent: Saturday, April 5, 2014 10:27 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] HO Barber 70 Ton Trucks





After a wait of several years, I am offering the Red Caboose 70 Ton truck to
the group at $3.90/pair without wheel sets. Postage will be added and for
Paypay, their extra fees will be added.

These trucks were originally done for the RC SP F-70-7 flatcar and other SP
cars used these trucks also, although spring packs varied on some. As
Richard Hendrickson noted:"the Barber S-2 was one of the two truck designs
that were widely used from the end of WW II through the '50s (the other
being the ASF A-3), so the 70 ton Barber S-2 was applied to many cars built
for many different railroads, chiefly (but not exclusively) flat cars, mill
gondolas, large hoppers, and covered hoppers. Later in the '50s, they were
also applied to a growing number of 70 ton box, auto, insulated box, and
mechanical refrigerator cars.
.If you are interested or have questions, contact me OFF LIST at
<espeefan@...>. Thanks.

Dan Smith


Re: Bowser PRR H30 and N&W HC1 covered hoppers

pennsylvania1954
 

Hi Rob--Very accurate for the PRR. In a discussion of BLI's announced PRR H32 covered hopper, Elden Gatwood posted a list of carried commodities in msg #123512. Same would apply to the H30.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL


Re: Bowser PRR H30 and N&W HC1 covered hoppers

David
 

N&W built ten clones of the PRR design, so both road names are legit (although the N&W cars had Crown trucks, ironically). These were used in cement service, so anything that would have called for cement from PRR or N&W territory would suffice.

David Thompson


RPP CYC #28 Arrives

Bill Welch
 

My copy of #28 arrived today. Twice a year Ed and Pat amaze me with the material they provide on the standard freight cars of our favorite era in a well organized understandable format. Thank you Ed and Pat!
Bill Welch


heaviest 33" HO wheel sets

ed_mines
 

Who makes the heaviest 33" Ho wheel sets?

 

Ed Mines


Erie 79000 series box cars

ed_mines
 

There are some good builders photos of these on the fallen flags site.. Good diagram too.

 

Ed Mines


Bowser PRR H30 and N&W HC1 covered hoppers

Robert kirkham
 

Hi there – saw the announcement of these cars and after a frustrating search of the list messages to locate previous discussions (some but not what I’m looking for) I’m wondering two things I hope some on this list can help with:
- how accurate are the models for the two railroads listed above?  (i.e. is this a PRR model in N&W paint, vice versa, or something short of both)?
- what is the chance of either car getting to port in Canada on the Pacific Coast post-WWII?  I’m not sure what commodities they were used for in the immediate post war era.
 
Thanks in advance.
 
Rob Kirkham


Re: Interesting car movements

Dave Nelson
 

WRT the mty NP flats… I’m of the opinion the Ft Dodge Yardmaster was following car service rules by routing them back to Peoria.  IIRC, the rules state IF you can a load that is in the general direction of a car’s home rails use it, else return the empty to the railroad from whom you received it when loaded.

 

And so if that is correct then it makes sense to return them to Peoria and let the other road to use them again… or send them on to whomever they got the loads from.  The fact that sending the empties to Minneapolis, which would have been the short route to NP tracks, makes good sense but I’m pretty sure that’s not what the rules call for. 

 

Dave Nelson


FS Greenville Flat car kits

Doug Junda
 

Sorry for the use of bandwidth on a FOR SALE

I have about 20-30 kits of the Greenville flat cars for sale.
I with Protowest Models and clearing out some old inventory.

The kits come 2 falt cars per Box, and include all detail part, No trucks or couplers.
The have decals for ATSF, Erie, NYC and some limited B&O. The kits normally sold for $44.95. I'm clearing them at at $30.00 plus shipping.

The kits are resin and offer great detail.

Please contact me at djunda AT pdtnetworks DOT org.

I can do check, or Paypal.

Thanks again for looking at this.

Doug Junda


HO Barber 70 Ton Trucks

 

After a wait of several years, I am offering the Red Caboose 70 Ton truck to the group at $3.90/pair without wheel sets. Postage will be added and for Paypay, their extra fees will be added.

These trucks were originally done for the RC SP F-70-7 flatcar and other SP cars used these trucks also, although spring packs varied on some. As Richard Hendrickson noted:"the Barber S-2 was one of the two truck designs that were widely used from the end of WW II through the '50s (the other being the ASF A-3), so the 70 ton Barber S-2 was applied to many cars built for many different railroads, chiefly (but not exclusively) flat cars, mill gondolas, large hoppers, and covered hoppers. Later in the '50s, they were also applied to a growing number of 70 ton box, auto, insulated box, and mechanical refrigerator cars.
.If you are interested or have questions, contact me OFF LIST at <espeefan@...>. Thanks.

Dan Smith


Re: Interesting car movements

Clark Propst
 

It’s possible the produce cars were not sold and moving in the longest route east possible?
 
I really didn’t think the NP cars were a set, but those things cross your mind. The M&StL interchanged with many RRs in Peoria, they could have been heading farther?
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: End Views – Reefers & Hopper At Swift & Company (Denver)

mark <caboose9792@...>
 

Is that bone chunks or something else getting loaded into the hopper?


mark Rickert
caboose9792@...


-----Original Message-----
From: David Allen
To: STMFC
Sent: Fri, Apr 4, 2014 1:31 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: End Views – Reefers & Hopper At Swift & Company (Denver)

 
Bob Chaparro offered the url:
http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/34939/rec/38
showing cars at a Swift packing plant in Denver. One of the cars, UP 80768, is, I believe a ballast car - data below.

Be well, all; keep on shoveling.  Dave Allen

=======================================================================
UP_80853 ballast car dimensional data RyAge v32 1901
=======================================================================
Railway Age v32, 1901

Length over end sills ------------------ 40' 0"
Length inside of body ------------------ 32' 7 1/4"
Width over all -------------------------  9' 4"
Width inside of body -------------------  8' 8 1/2"
Height from rail to top of body --------  8' 3"
Height to top of brake shaft -----------  5' 5 1/4"
Height to top of center sill -----------  3' 3 1/2"
Distance between truck centers --------- 31' 1"
Size of journals ----------------------- 5 1/2" x 10"
Wheel base of trucks -------------------  5' 6"
Center of journals ---------------------  6' 5"
Weight of car empty --------------------  37,600 lbs.
Capacity loaded with coal -------------- 100,000 lbs.
Capacity loaded with ballast ----------- 110,000 lbs



Re: Interesting car movements

np328
 

Clark, of the NP flats.  I have found via research that in later years both the NP and GN had decided the Q should concentrate on having most of the flat cars of the three Hill Lines, and the most specialized ones also. The reasoning being was that the Q was closest to the heavy manufacturing center of Chicago which generated the greatest need for these cars. This would give the appearance of the NP and GN being flat car poor and the Q flat car heavy when in reality, this was a smart market driven decision.

I am thinking (and this is just conjecture) that this decision came about because there were movements such as you list with these two empty flats rolling away from home.

One other thing, the NP had sales offices well off line in places like Baltimore, Philadelphia, and Pittsburg and so on. And if your check an Official Guide, you will find just about all other railroads had sales agents pounding the pavement out an office far from the home road.

It is possible these flats were on their way to bring a load home. If I can get copyright permission to post the monthly sales reports I'd found, I will.   

And I still need to transcribe some NP car movements. Brand new box cars which made one loaded movement on the NP before not returning home – for years. This was part of my past Cocoa Beach presentation on why everybody needs NP cars.           Jim Dick – St. Paul


Re: Interesting car movements

Douglas Harding
 

Jim, Fort Dodge to Peoria is about 350 miles. Your suggestion of lumber
loads on NP flats to Iowa is indeed a good one. Plus Iowa had a number of
farm implement factories in the State, so flat cars were a needed car.

As to M&StL flatcars, in 1953 the railroad had 347 steel 50' and 53'6"
flatcars, 9% of their entire freight car fleet. These cars can be modeled in
HO with the Chad Boaz flat car and/or the PK2 flatcar. The M&StL served the
Minneapolis-Moline plant in Minnesota, and other communities with farm
implement and heavy equipment manufacture, including John Deere in Des
Moines and Caterpillar and Letoureau in Peoria. Smaller implement
manufacturers could be found in many Iowa towns.

I've been pondering on the loads of grapes Clark mentions. There was a
Western Iowa Grape Growers association based in Council Bluffs, as Iowa as
at one time raised a lot of grapes. Now it is possible the cars were Iowa
grown grapes, but I don't believe Fort Dodge was an area with grape growers.
And why would they be in PFE reefers? So most likely they came from the
Omaha gateway or Council Bluffs on the IC to Fort Dodge, which is an odd
routing.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: Interesting car movements

earlyrail
 

Second interesting move is three PFE reefers 90703, 2381, 6689 and one MDT 10441. 90703 has a load of melons and the other three carried grapes. These cars are from Ft Dodge (where train originated) bound for the Wabash in Des Moines. To me not knowing, or caring, much about western produce movements I’d think the eastern gateway would be Omaha - Council Bluffs? The IC run from CB to Ft Dodge. Maybe that’s how the M&StL got the cars? The RI ran from CB straight to Des Moines. Why weren’t the cars routed that way? The Wabash had a line into CB. Why weren’t the cars delivered to them there?
Not sure about the grapes, but melons could have originated in the upper mid west.

Howard Garner

---
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Re: West India Fruit Box cars

al_brown03
 

The WIF 100-series cars are 10' IH versions of the 1923 ARA steel boxcar; WIF acquired ten in early 1949 from the High Point, Thomasville, & Denton. The ORER series was 100-199 but the photos I've seen are all of cars numbered 10x, so I suspect only numbers 100-109 were filled. They were funny-looking to say the least, and are modelled by Sunshine kit 102.12.

WIF 200-349 were built by AC&F in January 1952 (Lot #01-3593). Some published photos:
WIF 210, Bramson, "Speedway to Sunshine", p 65
WIF 231, English, MM 5/88 pp 52-54
WIF 269, RMJ 10/90 p 55
WIF 289 (builder's photo): Kaminski, "American Car & Foundry", p 191
WIF 314, Henderson, "Classic Freight Cars vol 1", p 43

The combination of 12-panel welded sides, 10'6" IH, 1+3/4 "Dartnaught" ends, a rectangular-panel roof, and an 8' Improved Youngstown door is unusual ... again, to say the least! English modified a Front Range kit; at this point I think I'd start with a C&BT Shops #11500. Remove the "darts" from the ends, sand off the side rivets, replace the crummy details with good ones, and you're close.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Re: West India Fruit Box cars

Bill Welch
 

Depends on what your definition of "reasonable" is. The roof and ends are entirely wrong.
Bill Welch

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