Re: Less than 40foot box car data from 1943 ORER
Benjamin Hom
Richard Hendrickson wrote:
"Ben, you’re right, of course, but only one car? Seems to me that only barely qualifies as an exception. More to the point, the Akron, Canton & Youngstown acquired a couple of hundred exFrisco 50 singlesheathed ca. 1958, which is late in the time span covered by this list but still barely qualifies as “steam era. However, for the late ‘40searly ‘50s period Bill and I (and many others on this list) are modeling, his observation is essentially correct to the best of my knowledge." Honestly, it was too easy to take shots at an absolute statement. No argument here that we're stretching to find exceptions  the only other one I can think of is the 193841 NYC lease of ATSF Class FeS doublesheathed automobile boxcars, and that's stretching the definition to include both steel underframe and the fact that NYC borrowed them from somebody else. Ben Hom




Re: Less than 40foot box car data from 1943 ORER
Richard Hendrickson
On Apr 14, 2014, at 12:41 PM, Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:
Ben, you’re right, of course, but only one car? Seems to me that only barely qualifies as an exception. More to the point, the Akron, Canton & Youngstown acquired a couple of hundred exFrisco 50’ singlesheathed ca. 1958, which is late in the time span covered by this list but still barely qualifies as “steam era.” However, for the late ‘40searly ‘50s period Bill and I (and many others on this llist) are modeling, his observation is essentially correct to the best of my knowledge. Richard Hendrickson




Re: Less than 40foot box car data from 1943 ORER
Benjamin Hom
Bill Welch wrote:
"Just a footnote to Eric's very fine post. Note that the L&N was one of the few roads noted w/fiftyfoot cars. One hundred of these were single sheathed door and half furniture cars w/SS ends. AFAIK these were the only cars of 50ft composite construction in the US owned by a RR east of the Mississippi River. A picture is in the KlineCulotta NMRA book." Bill, gotta watch those absolutes  they'll get you every time: http://prr.railfan.net/freight/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=x38b.gif&fr=cl PRR 119991, Class X38B, oneofakind SS boxcar built in 1942. Of note, this car originally had a wood roof that was later replaced by a rectangular panel steel roof. Car appeared through the January 1959 ORER; it was no longer listed as of the January 1960 ORER. You'll find the singledoor MDC 50 SS boxcar painted in this scheme  the only thing that this prototype has in common with the model is that they're both 50 ft SS boxcars. It's not an accurate model by any stretch of the imagination. Ben Hom




Re: Less than 40foot box car data from 1943 ORER
Bill Welch
Just a footnote to Eric's very fine post. Note that the L&N was one of the few roads noted w/fiftyfoot cars. One hundred of these were single sheathed door and half furniture cars w/SS ends. AFAIK these were the only cars of 50ft composite construction in the US owned by a RR east of the Mississippi River. A picture is in the KlineCulotta NMRA book.
Bill Welch




Re: SeaboardCoast Line Modeler Issue 22 now on line
Dave Nelson
I have an offer of a copy. Thanks!
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Dave Nelson
Original Message
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dave Nelson Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 11:01 AM To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [STMFC] SeaboardCoast Line Modeler Issue 22 now on line I managed to miss the Volume 6, #2 issue... would appreciate it if anyone who has the .pdf could email me a copy as the web page doesn't provide that copy anymore. Thank you! Dave Nelson Original Message From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Justin May For those interested, the newest issue of the SeaboardCoast Line Modeler is now available via the ACL & SAL Historical Society's website.  Yahoo Groups Links




Re: New York Central Boxcar decals
John Riddell
CDS Lettering offers 21 sets for NYC boxcars. Four sets include the
triangle.
John Riddell




Re: SeaboardCoast Line Modeler Issue 22 now on line
Dave Nelson
I managed to miss the Volume 6, #2 issue... would appreciate it if anyone
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
who has the .pdf could email me a copy as the web page doesn't provide that copy anymore. Thank you! Dave Nelson
Original Message
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Justin May For those interested, the newest issue of the SeaboardCoast Line Modeler is now available via the ACL & SAL Historical Society's website.




Re: sub 40' XM on inside gateway '47
Dennis Storzek
One thing to keep in mind, aside from the 36' steel frame single sheathed cars that were popular with the Canadian roads, the last built of the 36' double sheathed cars shared construction features with the USRA 40', 40 ton double sheathed cars... That is a wood sheathed, wood framed body on an all steel underframe. In the case of the USRA cars, there were enough of them, and they were close enough to "modern" dimensions, that they spawned a miniindustry manufacturing "kits" to convert them to allsteel boxcars of the same dimensions as the then current (preWWII) standard boxcar. Because of their smaller size, the railroads did not see the utility in spending this much money on the 36' cars, even though they were only a couple years older, and those cars soldiered on through WWII with only replacement ends and roofs, pretty much unchanged in appearance.. Meanwhile a lot of 40' double sheathed cars were masquerading as allsteel cars.
Dennis Storzek




Re: sub 40' XM on inside gateway '47
devansprr
Dave,
OMG  wish I had seen this earlier  great resource... Dave Evans




Less than 40foot box car data from 1943 ORER
Eric Hansmann
As a modeler focused on the mid1920s, box and ventilator cars that are less than 40foot length have garnered my attention as they are a significant portion of the US freight car fleet. I have noted the decline of these cars over the next two decades and the WW2 years seem to be the last major use for 36foot box cars as a decent percentage of the box car fleet. The New York Central lines listed over 5000 short, double sheathed box cars, many of which sported inverted Murphy corrugated steel ends. Assembled below you will find XM only recapitulation summary data of individual lines from the 1943 ORER. Quantities of 40foot and 50foot cars are included to offer perspective on the less than 40foot car quantities. Quantities of VS, VA, XV, XA, XAB, and similar AAR designations were not included, but noted in a couple of examples. NYC 50foot, 6inch  500 cars 40foot to 40foot, 7inch  42,391 cars Less than 40foot  2894 cars
Boston & Albany 50foot, 6inch  0 cars 40foot to 40foot, 7inch  994 cars Less than 40foot  1217 cars
Cleveland Cincinnati Chicago & St Louis 50foot, 6inch  0 cars 40foot to 40foot, 7inch  3293 cars Less than 40foot  146 cars
Michigan Central 50foot, 6inch  0 cars 40foot to 40foot, 7inch  2211 cars Less than 40foot  65 cars Also listed 632 less than 40foot cars designated as XAB
Pittsburgh & Lake Erie 50foot, 6inch  100 cars 40foot to 40foot, 7inch  2993 cars Less than 40foot  888 cars
PMcK&Y 50foot, 6inch  0 cars 40foot to 40foot, 7inch  570 cars Less than 40foot  303 cars
Here are the overall numbers for the NYC System 50foot, 6inch  600 cars 40foot to 40foot, 7inch  51,458 cars Less than 40foot  5513 cars Does not include the MC XAB shorties
And a few other railroads with significant numbers of less than 40foot box cars listed in the 1943 ORER, as compared with the rest of their XM fleet. Reading 50foot, 6inch  0 cars 40foot to 40foot, 7inch  3964 cars Less than 40foot  3013 cars
Central RR of New Jersey 50foot, 6inch  0 cars 40foot to 40foot, 7inch  2328 cars Less than 40foot  552 cars
Delaware Lackawanna & Western 50foot, 6inch  0 cars 40foot to 40foot, 7inch  5196 cars Less than 40foot  1943 cars
Erie 50foot, 6inch  0 cars 40foot to 40foot, 7inch  7559 cars Less than 40foot  2336 cars
Delaware & Hudson 50foot, 6inch  0 cars 40foot to 40foot, 7inch  689 cars Less than 40foot  1811 cars
New Haven 50foot, 6inch  0 cars 40foot to 40foot, 7inch  1000 cars Less than 40foot  7016 cars
Nickel Plate Road 50foot, 6inch  0 cars 40foot to 40foot, 7inch  5368 cars Less than 40foot  1089 cars
Chesapeake & Ohio 50foot, 6inch  0 cars 40foot to 40foot, 7inch  8555 cars Less than 40foot  1806 cars
Louisville & Nashville 50foot, 6inch  300 cars 40foot to 40foot, 7inch  5641 cars Less than 40foot  7753 cars Also lists 2096 ventilator cars of 36foot length
Southern 50foot, 6inch  0 cars 40foot to 40foot, 7inch  11,348 cars Less than 40foot  13678 cars
Outside of the ACL and SAL ventilator car fleets, these are probably the majority of the US railroads with a decent proportion of less than 40foot XM box cars listed in the 1943 ORER. I did this quickly, so I’m probably missing a plum or two. I chose to focus on US railroads for this information, so the list does not include several thousand Canadian National and Canadian Pacific Fowler/Dominion design box cars that were less than 40foot in length.
Eric Hansmann El Paso, TX




Re: sub 40' XM on inside gateway '47
David Sieber
Gentlemen,
May I remind you of Ray Breyer's outstanding and comprehensive spreadsheet in the STMFC files, All Short Boxcars, 19301959 (Ray Breyer).xls . It details 1,382(!) series of short boxcars by roadname, reporting marks and road numbers, with outside dimensions, cuft and CAPY, plus ORER totals for each series in 1930, 1945, 1950, 1951, 1955, 1957 and 1959. It also includes spreadsheets on total quantities of all boxcars by roadname for each of those years, and on HO kits that could be used to model short boxcars still in use post WWII, with the year last in service. That hopefully should answer many questions on short boxcars; it certainly gave me a couple of hours of study to see what 3638 footers might still be seen in my Transition modeling era! HTH, Dave Sieber, Reno NV




Re: Fw: Future Floor Wax
Curt Fortenberry
In my area the only place that sells it is Walmart. None of the other big box stores carry it. Curt Fortenberry




SeaboardCoast Line Modeler Issue 22 now on line
Justin May <jmay59@...>
For those interested, the newest issue of the SeaboardCoast Line Modeler is now available via the ACL & SAL Historical Society's website.
http://sclmodeler.aclsal.org/index.htm This issue contains modeling a SAL F6 flat car in S scale from the Chad Boas resin kit, modeling an ACL O25 boxcar, part 1 of modeling Georgia Railroad's NW2 fleet, and several pertinent reviews of existing models and new products. We always welcome feedback, articles, and questions should anyone wish to contribute. Justin May




Re: sub 40' XM on inside gateway '47
devansprr
Rob,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
This is not unexpected. 1946 would be a tough year to project cars in use, but in the January 1943 ORER NMRA reproduced, around 135,000 sub40 foot boxcars were on the register. Now 62,000 of those cars were CP and CN, and we have had lots of discussions about how often and how far south into the US these cars would reach  but I would guess about 95% of the US is north of Port Arthur, Texas.... I will confess that when I did this analysis about 9 years ago just after returning to the hobby I failed to distinguish between XM and other X variants, so these numbers are not just for XM's. But ignoring CP, CN and the Mexican roads, the US sub40 foot box car fleet outnumbered the US 50 foot box car fleet 70841 to 47936 (9.5% and 6.4% respectively of the combined X fleet  a total of ~743,000 cars) Below, as of January 1943, are US RR's with significant sub40 foot fleets, percentage of their total X* fleet, and the number of 50 foot box cars they also owned (note that I am sure these numbers are not exact  I didn't count each RR's cars exactly): SOU 13678 43% 200 L&N 7753 52% 397 NYNH&H 7016 88% 0 (NYNH only had 1000 40' cars in 1943!) ATSF 3448 10% 3611 RDG 3063 40% 309 NC&Stl 3047 76% 0 NYC 2904 6% 2699 CB&Q 2508 10% 2271 Erie 2336 20% 497 DL&W 1943 25% 0 D&H 1811 72% 0 C&O 1806 14% 200 GTW 1672 19% 1079 MP 1637 9% 1296 MSP... 1364 13% 998 (SOO) BAR 1325 55% 0 B&A 1217 55% 0 P&LE 1191 24% 200 NYC&Stl 1091 14% 200 (NKP) StLSF 1084 8% 300 GM&O 1051 26% 0 D&RGW 795 16% 485 MC 697 17% 0 CI&L 615 58% 0 (Monon) CofNJ 552 18% 0 CV 412 34% 0 The 26 US railroads listed above had a total of 300,000 box cars (40% of the US fleet)! 66,000 sub40 cars (over 20%), 220,000 40 footers (so that is one sub40 footer for every 3.3 40 footers!), and only 14,500 50 footers (four sub40 footers for every 50 footer!). Of these railroads only the ATSF had more 50 foot cars than sub40 footers. When building a WWII fleet, clearly the sub40 cars need to be broadly and significantly represented. And this is without any of the Canadian 36' cars. The remaining sub40 cars total 4485 and were spread across at least 53 different reporting marks (getting into the secondary roads). So in WWII I guess I would disagree with the characterization that the sub40 footers were often secondary roads. But I suspect the sub40's that survived the end of WWII quickly found themselves on the secondary roads  not only were they short in length, but they were typically narrow and short in height  just over half the cubic capacity of 50 foot cars being produced at the end of 1945. The sub40's weren't long for continued use by the major carriers  and most didn't survive at all  postwar the majors began selling off their 1920's steel 40 footers to the secondary roads as the majors headed for higher cube 40 and 50 footers. Dave Evans In STMFC@..., <rdkirkham@...> wrote : Allen – I’d dearly love to see the car numbers of the CP cars in that
sample. As a modeller I had written off the sub 40 footers for all
but MOW and other OCS service for my 1946 era, so this comes as cool news. Rob Kirkham
From: allen_282@... Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2014 8:56 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] sub 40' XM on inside gateway '47 As long as people are talking about '36 XM cars, south bound the Bieber, CA Oct '47 shows about 2.5% boxcars under '40 (mostly 36, but some 35 and 39 footers) , but less than 1% north bound, go figure. Some more commons ones were, 8 SOU XM 36 162000169769, and three others in different series. 4 LN XM 36 1000011999, and five others in different series. 4 ERIE XM 35 9300093999, Also present: CP, RDG, DH, BA, MKT, ATSF, CO, CBQ, PLE Allen Rueter , Richard's Yard book, Dave's DB




Re: WWII Freight Movements to the Charleston POE
Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
The Reading which was generally a very progressive
railroad, still had 968 cars in the 1918built 40004999 series in 145. Their
classes built before XMp, the first class with steel reinforced ends, were
pretty much gone by then despite many being rebuilt with steel ends, but class
XMp and XMr were nearly intact. It appears that age and condition were more
important factors than length when retiring cars.
Eric N.




Re: sub 40' XM on inside gateway '47
riverman_vt@...
Hi Rob,
While I cannot offer car numbers it can be stated that some 36 ft. CPR Dominion box cars were still seen on the Lyndonville (Vt.) Subdivision in the post WW II era as well. The same can be said of the CNR Dominion cars that were coming down the Central Vermont. By 1970, when I began taking photos in earnest, they were a very rare sight but were seen once in a great while, the last being a Grand Trunk car at White River Jct., VT about that time. Cordially, Don Valentine




Re: Fw: Future Floor Wax
Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
Friends,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Another acrylic product that might work is Minwax Polycrylic sealer, which comes in gloss and matte. This stuff thins and cleans up with water. It is a milky white, but dries clear. I'm not sure if it could be used for models, but I've sealed a lot of my arrows with it. Yours Aye, Garth Groff
On 4/13/14 11:24 PM, Douglas Harding
wrote:




Re: sub 40' XM on inside gateway '47
Robert kirkham
Allen – I’d dearly love to see the car numbers of the CP cars in that
sample. As a modeller I had written off the sub 40 footers for all
but MOW and other OCS service for my 1946 era, so this comes as cool news.
Rob Kirkham
From: allen_282@...
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2014 8:56 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] sub 40' XM on inside gateway '47 As long as people are talking about '36 XM cars, south bound the Bieber, CA Oct '47 shows about 2.5% boxcars under '40 (mostly 36, but some 35 and 39 footers) , but less than 1% north bound, go figure. Some more commons ones were, 8 SOU XM 36 162000169769, and three others in different series. 4 LN XM 36 1000011999, and five others in different series. 4 ERIE XM 35 9300093999, Also present: CP, RDG, DH, BA, MKT, ATSF, CO, CBQ, PLE Allen Rueter , Richard's Yard book, Dave's DB




sub 40' XM on inside gateway '47
Allen Rueter
As long as people are talking about '36 XM cars,
south bound the Bieber, CA Oct '47 shows about 2.5% boxcars under '40 (mostly 36, but some 35 and 39 footers) , but less than 1% north bound, go figure. Some more commons ones were, 8 SOU XM 36 162000169769, and three others in different series. 4 LN XM 36 1000011999, and five others in different series. 4 ERIE XM 35 9300093999, Also present: CP, RDG, DH, BA, MKT, ATSF, CO, CBQ, PLE Allen Rueter , Richard's Yard book, Dave's DB




Re: Fw: Future Floor Wax
Douglas Harding
Bill I think the key is took for the ingredient, 100% clear acrylic.
Here is a more complete story which covers are the variations and brand names: http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html
Doug Harding www.iowacentralrr.org


