Date   

Re: "Indented" Dreadnaught Ends

hayden_tom@...
 

I said :

And maybe this "normal" Dreadnaught is the same as Modified Dreadnaught, or is that another variation altogether/

I meant "Improved Dreadnaught" 

Tom


Intermountain PS-1 box car Ends

Andy Carlson
 

Hi,
I have many pairs of Intermountain PS-1 ends from their 50' kits (The 40' kits had their ends molded in one piece with the body). Useful for kitbashing riveted side Pullman box cars.

Offered for $1.25/pair. Shipping of $2.85 by padded 1st class envelope for 1 or more pairs. Contact me off-list if interested.

I accept checks and money orders. For a small fee, I can accept PayPal.
Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: HO scale PRR Class X37 Models (was "Indented" Dreadnaught Ends)

Armand Premo
 

Thank you Ben.Missed out on a few.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2014 3:46 PM
Subject: [STMFC] HO scale PRR Class X37 Models (was "Indented" Dreadnaught Ends)

 

Armand Premo asked:
"Any source for X37s?"

Unfortunately, the best source was Sunshine Models:
http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun44.pdf

Jim Hayes' list shows kit 44.1 as possibly discounted; the other kits may be available from Patricia, but no guarantees.
http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sunalltimepart2.pdf

It's possible to kitbash these cars from prewar AAR boxcars, but it'll require a lot of work to rework the roof, fit new doors, and modify the rivet arrangements on the sides.

Ben Hom


Intermountain 40 Ft. PS-1 Boxcar roof (P40 400-06)

O Fenton Wells
 

Does anyone have two of these that they would sell at a reasonable price.  I've had a four pack on order since December from IM and they are still not in stock.  I need two to finish a project.
Thanks in advance
Fenton Wells


Re: "Indented" Dreadnaught Ends

hayden_tom@...
 

OK,  So, according to Jaydee, we should assume that the "base plane" of the end is the same plane as defined by the corners. And if the rolling pin protrudes outside of that plane you would call it just normal Dreadnaught. And if the top surface of the rolling pin is about at that plane, with the other surfaces below that plane we would call it Early, Indented, Reversed, or Inverse (depending on who is doing the naming).  And maybe this "normal" Dreadnaught is the same as Modified Dreadnaught, or is that another variation altogether/

Tom


HO scale PRR Class X37 Models (was "Indented" Dreadnaught Ends)

Benjamin Hom
 

Armand Premo asked:
"Any source for X37s?"

Unfortunately, the best source was Sunshine Models:
http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun44.pdf

Jim Hayes' list shows kit 44.1 as possibly discounted; the other kits may be available from Patricia, but no guarantees.
http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sunalltimepart2.pdf

It's possible to kitbash these cars from prewar AAR boxcars, but it'll require a lot of work to rework the roof, fit new doors, and modify the rivet arrangements on the sides.


Ben Hom


Re: One more whack on the dead horse!

Rashputin
 

Are you a smoker?

 

Smoking doesn’t cause a problem if you spill a little Scotch on the rails on a regular basis.

 

Just thought I’d toss that in for folks who like a cigar while the run their trains.

 

Regards,

 

R Hume


Re: "Indented" Dreadnaught Ends

Armand Premo
 

Thank you Brian.I need a break from X'29s.Any source for X37s? Armand

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2014 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] "Indented" Dreadnaught Ends

 

Armend 
Contrary to Intermountain paint schemes the Pennsy didn't own any. 
Brian Carlson 


On Apr 18, 2014, at 3:00 PM, "Armen Premo" <armprem2@...> wrote:

 

Indented or not,I haven't had any luck trying to find a few Intermountain AAR 1937 Pennsy box cars.Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2014 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] "Indented" Dreadnaught Ends

 


Reweight Decals

Mark Stamm
 

I’m looking for a source for reweight decals.  Does Sunshine still have them or are there other providers?

 

Thanks

Mark

 

Mark Stamm

mark@...

Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in 1949

 


Re: "Indented" Dreadnaught Ends

Brian Carlson
 

Armend 
Contrary to Intermountain paint schemes the Pennsy didn't own any. 
Brian Carlson 


On Apr 18, 2014, at 3:00 PM, "Armen Premo" <armprem2@...> wrote:

 

Indented or not,I haven't had any luck trying to find a few Intermountain AAR 1937 Pennsy box cars.Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2014 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] "Indented" Dreadnaught Ends

 


Re: "Indented" Dreadnaught Ends

Armand Premo
 

Indented or not,I haven't had any luck trying to find a few Intermountain AAR 1937 Pennsy box cars.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2014 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] "Indented" Dreadnaught Ends

 

Can anyone direct me to a photo and/or drawings showing an "indented Dreadnaught" end?

Are the corrugations "in" instead of "out"? Or do the corrugations start further from the side?

      David Thompson provided a link to a nice photo. As you can see there, the indented end is just like a regular end, but the edges of the stamping are flush with the outermost part of the end, instead of being aligned with the inner part. Otherwise the main ribs project above the background, so to speak, just like a regular Dreadnaught. The reverse Dreadnaught, on the other hand (often found on gondolas), has the major ribs projecting into the car, so that from outside the car you see the inside of the major rib s.
        I personally think the term "inverted" is not a good idea. It sounds like upside down, not like either regular or indented or reversed. I would urge it not to be used.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@sign aturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: One more whack on the dead horse!

davesnyder59
 

Hi gentlemen, my intention was not to rehash the earlier discussion, but to state that it did provide me with something that seems to work. Chuck and Doug, your insights are true and I do have a lot of environmental problems on my layout. Garage attic, high heat and humidity in Summer, windows open and fan going to reduce heatstroke, lotsa air pollution in Ohio valley, intestate .5 miles away, and I do admit I have overused some cleaning agents in the past. Of course, reverse in winter, windows closed, space heater to reduce frostbite, etc. Pierre, I respectfully submit that if the "black crud" is nickle-silver oxidation and it is conductive, my observations are the opposite. No black crud, locos run fine, lights don't flicker. Lights flicker, locos hesitate, sound decoders skip/reset, black crud is present. One person stated in the last discussion that no one thing works for everyone and that certainly appears to be true. But the present course has given me optimism. Thank you gentlemen for your input, and so as not to incur the moderators wrath, I plan on biting my tongue in the future.

Dave Snyder
Louisville, Ky.


Re: "Indented" Dreadnaught Ends

David
 

The tricky part here is that the "early" Dreadnaught end had the forked stampings pressed inward relative to the base plane of the panel, however the "rolling pin" did protrude outward *slightly* from the base plane. This can be seen in the cross-section on the N&W drawing. The joint between the panels on the early style varied somewhat- some had the slight rolling pin protrusion at the bottom of the upper panel, while others didn't. As far as I know, nobody had box cars with early Dreadnaught ends with the forks pressed outward. Some drop-end gondolas might have had theirs mounted that way, though?

The more familiar Dreadnaught end had the rolling pins stamped outward from the base, while the forks were the "negative area" between the rolling pins and the darts. Compare these to the earlier photo and drawing.

http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=19356
http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=3923


Re: "Indented" Dreadnaught Ends

Tony Thompson
 

Can anyone direct me to a photo and/or drawings showing an "indented Dreadnaught" end?

Are the corrugations "in" instead of "out"? Or do the corrugations start further from the side?

      David Thompson provided a link to a nice photo. As you can see there, the indented end is just like a regular end, but the edges of the stamping are flush with the outermost part of the end, instead of being aligned with the inner part. Otherwise the main ribs project above the background, so to speak, just like a regular Dreadnaught. The reverse Dreadnaught, on the other hand (often found on gondolas), has the major ribs projecting into the car, so that from outside the car you see the inside of the major ribs.
        I personally think the term "inverted" is not a good idea. It sounds like upside down, not like either regular or indented or reversed. I would urge it not to be used.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: "Indented" Dreadnaught Ends

hayden_tom@...
 

OK, I am quite confused. I have now seen the terms Inverse, Reverse, Inverted, Indented, and Inset Dreadnaught. A few months ago I posted this photo link and noted that I thought this was Inverted Dreadnaught:
Tony Thompson replied that he thought this was simply an "inset" end and not Inverse. 

I am puzzled about what many ( most?) of you see in these differences. In each case clearly there is shaping of the sheet metal that goes IN and OUT . It seems to me that in every dreadnaught Boxcar end, including my atsf link and David's recent link, the "tapered rolling pin" shape bulges outward. I have never seen a Dreadnaught box card end where the tapered rolling pin shape bulges inward. The biggest differences from the norm that I see in both my photo and David's is that in both cases the riveted seam, where upper and lower part are connected, are at the level of the top surface of the tapered rolling pin shapes. And since this rivet seam is at the same surface point as the corner pieces, this means the the top of the tapered rolling pin shape is at the same plane as the corners. Thus the surfaces between the rolling pin shape are below the plane defined by the corner pieces. Is this what you guys are calling "Inverted" or "Inny"? 

By the way, note that on the N&W end in David's photo the rivet seam is in a flat area that seems to be impressed /pressed into the middle of a rolling pin shape, leaving slight bulges above and below the seam. The drawing David linked does not show that but instead shows the riveted area as a flat area slightly below the surface height of the rolling pin bulges. This would make it slightly less an "inny" than the atsf car I show.

Tom Hayden
 


Re: One more whack on the dead horse!

Chuck Higdon
 

I also do not put any liquid on my rail. I do vacuum the tracks once or twice a year and if I am working in a section. I have operations sessions 2 or 3 times a month and there is not a dirty track issue during them. Once a year I clean the loco wheels or it they start to stall. But I learned over the years that the liquids attached the dust to the wheels. If everything is dry, then it gets pushed to the side and off the tops of the rails.



Take care,
Chuck Higdon- check out my FEC layout at
https://picasaweb.google.com/102920461774912857361







From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Pierre Oliver
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2014 12:17 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: One more whack on the dead horse!





Seems to me that you're overthinking this.
The "black crud" is most likely nickel silver oxide, which is conductive. I have found the biggest issue is plain old dust.
I have learned the hard way that most of the liquids promoted for maintaining clean track generate more issues than they solve. And I will never let an oil product near the rails again.
I just vacuum every now and then and have at it.



Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com <http://www.elgincarshops.com>
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com <http://www.yarmouthmodelworks.com>

On 18/04/2014 11:56 AM, davesnyder59@... <mailto:davesnyder59@...> wrote:



No plastic wheels for years Doug. Even had to change out most of early metal wheels with plastic axles as they lost their true and became problematic for derailing. Now only use metal wheels with metal axles.

Some locos/lighted cars with suspected wiper/bronze bearing pickup problems did get sparing applications of Conducta Lube or thinned NoOx with improvements noted. Used to clean track/wheels with 91% IPA until someone mentioned that it promotes oxidation, which explains why it only worked for a day or so and left more black crud. My rails are indeed "ribbons of steel", as I "gleamed" them about a year ago and have only used silver polish to clean them since. But even that would only work reliably for 3 or 4 days. Got to be I spent more time cleaning track than running trains and was thoroughly bummed out.

That brings me up to the CRC 2-26 sparingly applied with dry wipe every 6 days or as long as I can go without experiment. I honestly don't know how long this improvement will last, but it is better than it was. Don't know what the "black crud" is, but its not metallic gray like I would expect to see with metal wear. Its black and I keep thinking carbon. Maybe the hi frequency DCC current and/or arching is disassociating the C from CO or CO2 in the atmosphere.

Dave Snyder
Louisville, Ky.

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
Version: 2014.0.4355 / Virus Database: 3882/7361 - Release Date: 04/18/14







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: One more whack on the dead horse!

Douglas Harding
 

Dave, interesting. I too run DCC with sound and IM metal wheelsets, and have not experienced the need to clean track every few days. More like once or twice a year. And my layout is not in a sealed environment, but rather in a basement with exposed ceiling. And I very seldom find the need to clean wheels, in my experience metal wheels seldom accumulate crud. Nor have I noticed oxidation caused by light cleaning with alcohol, as the alcohol flashes off quickly leaving no residue.

 

Your second post mentions several other products you also put on your rails in an attempt to clean them. Without seeing what you are doing, I am inclined to suspect too much is being applied, leaving a wet, oily or sticky surface which is attracting dirt and dust.

 

Are you by chance a smoker? Do you have forced air heating/cooling in your house? Do you open windows for fresh air? Do you have problems with dampness and moisture? Do you have pets? It sounds like some sort of environmental matter or particulate is settling on your rails. Determine what it is, locate the source and eliminate it to the best of your ability.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: One more whack on the dead horse!

Pierre Oliver <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Seems to me that you're overthinking this.
The "black crud" is most likely nickel silver oxide, which is conductive. I have found the biggest issue is plain old dust.
I have learned the hard way that most of the liquids promoted for maintaining clean track generate more issues than they solve. And I will never let an oil product near the rails again.
I just vacuum every now and then and have at it.
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 18/04/2014 11:56 AM, davesnyder59@... wrote:

 

No plastic wheels for years Doug. Even had to change out most of early metal wheels with plastic axles as they lost their true and became problematic for derailing. Now only use metal wheels with metal axles.

Some locos/lighted cars with suspected wiper/bronze bearing pickup problems did get sparing applications of Conducta Lube or thinned NoOx with improvements noted. Used to clean track/wheels with 91% IPA until someone mentioned that it promotes oxidation, which explains why it only worked for a day or so and left more black crud. My rails are indeed "ribbons of steel", as I "gleamed" them about a year ago and have only used silver polish to clean them since. But even that would only work reliably for 3 or 4 days. Got to be I spent more time cleaning track than running trains and was thoroughly bummed out.

That brings me up to the CRC 2-26 sparingly applied with dry wipe every 6 days or as long as I can go without experiment. I honestly don't know how long this improvement will last, but it is better than it was. Don't know what the "black crud" is, but its not metallic gray like I would expect to see with metal wear. Its black and I keep thinking carbon. Maybe the hi frequency DCC current and/or arching is disassociating the C from CO or CO2 in the atmosphere.

Dave Snyder
Louisville, Ky.

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4355 / Virus Database: 3882/7361 - Release Date: 04/18/14



Re: One more whack on the dead horse!

davesnyder59
 

No plastic wheels for years Doug. Even had to change out most of early metal wheels with plastic axles as they lost their true and became problematic for derailing. Now only use metal wheels with metal axles.

Some locos/lighted cars with suspected wiper/bronze bearing pickup problems did get sparing applications of Conducta Lube or thinned NoOx with improvements noted. Used to clean track/wheels with 91% IPA until someone mentioned that it promotes oxidation, which explains why it only worked for a day or so and left more black crud. My rails are indeed "ribbons of steel", as I "gleamed" them about a year ago and have only used silver polish to clean them since. But even that would only work reliably for 3 or 4 days. Got to be I spent more time cleaning track than running trains and was thoroughly bummed out.

That brings me up to the CRC 2-26 sparingly applied with dry wipe every 6 days or as long as I can go without experiment. I honestly don't know how long this improvement will last, but it is better than it was. Don't know what the "black crud" is, but its not metallic gray like I would expect to see with metal wear. Its black and I keep thinking carbon. Maybe the hi frequency DCC current and/or arching is disassociating the C from CO or CO2 in the atmosphere.

Dave Snyder
Louisville, Ky.


Re: Larry Kline

erict1361@...
 

I am deeply saddened to have heard of the passing of Larry Kline. I came to know Larry from Attending the Prototype Modelers meets over the years. I always enjoyed his clinics and presentations he gave at the meet's. one year got to visit his home and see his Layout. Recently, I  had a lengthy conversation with him in the Modeling room at the RPM East, last month. Larry was a great person. Always friendly, always willing to share his modeling experiences. He will be greatly missed.


Eric Thur

71461 - 71480 of 195366