Date   

Re: ATSF RB color

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Apr 18, 2014, at 4:48 PM, cepropst@q.com wrote:

I’m building a Westerfield Bx-11/12 with raised roof for a friend. I built one for myself years ago. Mine has a black roof with a body color Morton running board. ‘IF’ it was standard practice to paint roofs black (car cement) and wood RBs match the body color would a steel RB be left unpainted? Or should I be looking at a different scheme for the mid 50s. I think he models 54 or 55?
Clark, as it happens, there’s no simple answer to this question.  By ’54/’55 the Santa Fe’s practice of painting roofs anti-skid black was being replaced by painting them anti-skid mineral brown - that is, adding the anti-skid granules to the same mineral brown paint that was used on the rest of the car body.  But that shift was apparently gradual, depending (I think) on how long it took for each car shop to use up its supply of black car cement, and in any case it would only apply, in ’54-’55, to a car with a fresh paint job.  Steel running boards were unpainted galvanized steel when first applied, but were painted either black or mineral brown when the cars were repainted.

So if your friend wants to model a car that had just come out of the paint shop, the roof and running board would be the same mineral brown as the rest of the car (including underframe and trucks), but if he wants to model a car that’s been in service for awhile, the roof should be grainy black, and the steel running board should be weathered unpainted galvanized metal if the car had not been repainted since it was rebuilt during WW II or black if had been repainted at least once since being rebuilt.


Richard Hendrickson



Re: Improving the Athearn Blue Box 50 foot box car

Benjamin Hom
 

Cajonpass02 (who didn't sign his post) asked:
"Many years ago someone (Dennis Storzek?) wrote an article outlining several ways to improve the Athearn 40 foot boxcar. I have a couple of the 50 foot cars that I would like to rework in a similar manner. The one thing I haven't figured out is the doors and the upper door track. Any ideas?"

The article is "5 Boxcar Improvements" by Dennis Storzek, Railroad Model Craftsman, April 1982. You pretty much have three options:

1. The doors for the Athearn 50 ft cars are far less offensive than that for the 40 ft boxcar, and trimming away the "claws" from the door rollers significantly improves their appearance.  They're still too short and you're still stuck with the overscale door tracks, but if you're after a quick improvement that doesn't involve a lot of work, it does make the model look a lot better.

2. Replace the door tracks in accordance with the Storzek article or Jim Fuhrman/Greg Martin's methods detailed in "Crown Jewel from the Junkbox - Upgrade an Athearn Boxcar" in the April 1994 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman.  It's up to you whether or not you want to obtain extra Athearn doors to splice together to get correct height doors.

3. Skip working on the Athearn cars and obtain the Proto 2000 kits for the same prototypes.  The kits are abundant on the secondary market, and can often be had for less than $10.


Ben Hom


Re: Intermountain PS-1 box car Ends

O Fenton Wells
 

Andy, I am looking for IM 40 ft PS-1 roofs, P 40 400-06.  Do you have any of those?


On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 4:23 PM, Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:
 

Hi,
I have many pairs of Intermountain PS-1 ends from their 50' kits (The 40' kits had their ends molded in one piece with the body). Useful for kitbashing riveted side Pullman box cars.

Offered for $1.25/pair. Shipping of $2.85 by padded 1st class envelope for 1 or more pairs. Contact me off-list if interested. <midcentury@...>

I accept checks and money orders. For a small fee, I can accept PayPal.
Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA




--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...


Improving the Athearn Blue Box 50 foot box car

Robert J Miller CFA
 

Many years ago someone (Dennis Storzek?) wrote an article outlining several ways to improve the Athearn 40 foot boxcar. I have a couple of the 50 foot cars that I would like to rework in a similar manner. The one thing I haven't figured out is the doors and the upper door track. Any ideas?


A Thanks for these kits

brian k. dick
 

     Having been told my Santa Fe kit parts are in the mail, I would like to thank Greg Martin, Richard Hendrickson
and Schuyler Larabee  for the footwork and the research that went into these shake and take kits.  Also thank you 
Aaron for the expertise in making these parts.               Brian Dick


ATSF RB color

Clark Propst
 

I’m building a Westerfield Bx-11/12 with raised roof for a friend. I built one for myself years ago. Mine has a black roof with a body color Morton running board. ‘IF’ it was standard practice to paint roofs black (car cement) and wood RBs match the body color would a steel RB be left unpainted? Or should I be looking at a different scheme for the mid 50s. I think he models 54 or 55?
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: "Indented" Dreadnaught Ends

hayden_tom@...
 

Thanks Dennis, That clears up a lot. But there is obviously still a lot of confusion by us modelers using different terms. Maybe you, or someone, could publish a document that we could all use to define standard terminology. Years ago someone did this for PRR lettering so that we all (or most of us) can refer to NK, CK, SK etc ( for No Keystone, Circle Keystone, and Shadow Keystone) with various phase #s . It would be great if someone said boxcar XYZ had "4/5 Indented Dreadnaught" ends and everyone knew what that meant. 

Tom


Re: "Indented" Dreadnaught Ends

Tony Thompson
 

Tom Hayden wrote:

 

OK,  So, according to Jaydee, we should assume that the "base plane" of the end is the same plane as defined by the corners. And if the rolling pin protrudes outside of that plane you would call it just normal Dreadnaught. And if the top surface of the rolling pin is about at that plane, with the other surfaces below that plane we would call it Early, Indented, Reversed, or Inverse (depending on who is doing the naming).  And maybe this "normal" Dreadnaught is the same as Modified Dreadnaught, or is that another variation altogether/


      Again, this description is fine EXCEPT that you make no provision for TRUE reverse Dreadnaughts (turned around a vertical axis, so that major ribs protrude inward and not outward). And AGAIN, I believe that "inverse" is a confusing term which should be avoided.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: "Indented" Dreadnaught Ends

destorzek@...
 




---In STMFC@..., <hayden_tom@...> wrote :

"OK, I am quite confused. I have now seen the terms Inverse, Reverse, Inverted, Indented, and Inset Dreadnaught."

Actually, this is the real, original Dreadnaught end, the way Union Metal Products intended. All others are imposters :-) (Well, at least later design changes.)


"I am puzzled about what many ( most?) of you see in these differences. In each case clearly there is shaping of the sheet metal that goes IN and OUT . It seems to me that in every dreadnaught Boxcar end, including my atsf link and David's recent link, the "tapered rolling pin" shape bulges outward. I have never seen a Dreadnaught box card end where the tapered rolling pin shape bulges inward."
You haven't looked enough... they did exist, although shortly after the 1960 cut-off date of this list. Years ago, John Nerich (sp?) wanted to call this a "bifurcated end" or somesuch, because of the apparent forked shape of the pressings, but they are really just the same old Dreadnaught major and minor rib, seen from the other side of the sheet.

 "The biggest differences from the norm that I see in both my photo and David's is that in both cases the riveted seam, where upper and lower part are connected, are at the level of the top surface of the tapered rolling pin shapes. And since this rivet seam is at the same surface point as the corner pieces, this means the the top of the tapered rolling pin shape is at the same plane as the corners. Thus the surfaces between the rolling pin shape are below the plane defined by the corner pieces. Is this what you guys are calling "Inverted" or "Inny"?"

Yep.

"By the way, note that on the N&W end in David's photo the rivet seam is in a flat area that seems to be impressed /pressed into the middle of a rolling pin shape, leaving slight bulges above and below the seam. The drawing David linked does not show that but instead shows the riveted area as a flat area slightly below the surface height of the rolling pin bulges. This would make it slightly less an "inny" than the atsf car I show."

It's there... you are not interpreting the drawing correctly. None of the vertical sectional views are on the car centerline, so these don't show in section. However, if you look at the horizontal sections at the bottom of the sheet, you will see that the large ribs have a graceful swell past a straight line between the plane of the corner flanges. The center seam area is flattened and dose not follow this swell.

Dennis Storzek
 


Re: "Indented" Dreadnaught Ends

hayden_tom@...
 

I said :

And maybe this "normal" Dreadnaught is the same as Modified Dreadnaught, or is that another variation altogether/

I meant "Improved Dreadnaught" 

Tom


Intermountain PS-1 box car Ends

Andy Carlson
 

Hi,
I have many pairs of Intermountain PS-1 ends from their 50' kits (The 40' kits had their ends molded in one piece with the body). Useful for kitbashing riveted side Pullman box cars.

Offered for $1.25/pair. Shipping of $2.85 by padded 1st class envelope for 1 or more pairs. Contact me off-list if interested.

I accept checks and money orders. For a small fee, I can accept PayPal.
Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: HO scale PRR Class X37 Models (was "Indented" Dreadnaught Ends)

Armand Premo
 

Thank you Ben.Missed out on a few.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2014 3:46 PM
Subject: [STMFC] HO scale PRR Class X37 Models (was "Indented" Dreadnaught Ends)

 

Armand Premo asked:
"Any source for X37s?"

Unfortunately, the best source was Sunshine Models:
http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun44.pdf

Jim Hayes' list shows kit 44.1 as possibly discounted; the other kits may be available from Patricia, but no guarantees.
http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sunalltimepart2.pdf

It's possible to kitbash these cars from prewar AAR boxcars, but it'll require a lot of work to rework the roof, fit new doors, and modify the rivet arrangements on the sides.

Ben Hom


Intermountain 40 Ft. PS-1 Boxcar roof (P40 400-06)

O Fenton Wells
 

Does anyone have two of these that they would sell at a reasonable price.  I've had a four pack on order since December from IM and they are still not in stock.  I need two to finish a project.
Thanks in advance
Fenton Wells


Re: "Indented" Dreadnaught Ends

hayden_tom@...
 

OK,  So, according to Jaydee, we should assume that the "base plane" of the end is the same plane as defined by the corners. And if the rolling pin protrudes outside of that plane you would call it just normal Dreadnaught. And if the top surface of the rolling pin is about at that plane, with the other surfaces below that plane we would call it Early, Indented, Reversed, or Inverse (depending on who is doing the naming).  And maybe this "normal" Dreadnaught is the same as Modified Dreadnaught, or is that another variation altogether/

Tom


HO scale PRR Class X37 Models (was "Indented" Dreadnaught Ends)

Benjamin Hom
 

Armand Premo asked:
"Any source for X37s?"

Unfortunately, the best source was Sunshine Models:
http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun44.pdf

Jim Hayes' list shows kit 44.1 as possibly discounted; the other kits may be available from Patricia, but no guarantees.
http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sunalltimepart2.pdf

It's possible to kitbash these cars from prewar AAR boxcars, but it'll require a lot of work to rework the roof, fit new doors, and modify the rivet arrangements on the sides.


Ben Hom


Re: One more whack on the dead horse!

Rashputin
 

Are you a smoker?

 

Smoking doesn’t cause a problem if you spill a little Scotch on the rails on a regular basis.

 

Just thought I’d toss that in for folks who like a cigar while the run their trains.

 

Regards,

 

R Hume


Re: "Indented" Dreadnaught Ends

Armand Premo
 

Thank you Brian.I need a break from X'29s.Any source for X37s? Armand

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2014 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] "Indented" Dreadnaught Ends

 

Armend 
Contrary to Intermountain paint schemes the Pennsy didn't own any. 
Brian Carlson 


On Apr 18, 2014, at 3:00 PM, "Armen Premo" <armprem2@...> wrote:

 

Indented or not,I haven't had any luck trying to find a few Intermountain AAR 1937 Pennsy box cars.Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2014 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] "Indented" Dreadnaught Ends

 


Reweight Decals

Mark Stamm
 

I’m looking for a source for reweight decals.  Does Sunshine still have them or are there other providers?

 

Thanks

Mark

 

Mark Stamm

mark@...

Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in 1949

 


Re: "Indented" Dreadnaught Ends

Brian Carlson
 

Armend 
Contrary to Intermountain paint schemes the Pennsy didn't own any. 
Brian Carlson 


On Apr 18, 2014, at 3:00 PM, "Armen Premo" <armprem2@...> wrote:

 

Indented or not,I haven't had any luck trying to find a few Intermountain AAR 1937 Pennsy box cars.Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2014 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] "Indented" Dreadnaught Ends

 


Re: "Indented" Dreadnaught Ends

Armand Premo
 

Indented or not,I haven't had any luck trying to find a few Intermountain AAR 1937 Pennsy box cars.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2014 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] "Indented" Dreadnaught Ends

 

Can anyone direct me to a photo and/or drawings showing an "indented Dreadnaught" end?

Are the corrugations "in" instead of "out"? Or do the corrugations start further from the side?

      David Thompson provided a link to a nice photo. As you can see there, the indented end is just like a regular end, but the edges of the stamping are flush with the outermost part of the end, instead of being aligned with the inner part. Otherwise the main ribs project above the background, so to speak, just like a regular Dreadnaught. The reverse Dreadnaught, on the other hand (often found on gondolas), has the major ribs projecting into the car, so that from outside the car you see the inside of the major rib s.
        I personally think the term "inverted" is not a good idea. It sounds like upside down, not like either regular or indented or reversed. I would urge it not to be used.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@sign aturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history




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